Environmental Detail

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

Does this mean we will be able to choose camos in multiplayer or are you referring in general play?

You can't "choose". But the sides have a bit different camo as you may have noticed, so by choosing side in a way you can I guess.

[NoQuarter]

It will change the density of brushed content (like grass - as you already discovered)

Since the brushed content consist of hundreds or thousands of tiny units, it can be performance heavy.

Not to keep beating on the drum but come on...what's next -50%=no props, -100%=no statics, Following the same logic those are, when taken as a whole, pretty performance heavy.

No. The player using grass will not spot the other player as easily if he is down in the grass...

So when playing against other players I suggest turning environment details off to level the playing field, unless it's just you and your friends playing a closed server when you know you can trust everyone (at least you can hope you can trust them).

What is the point of all this state of the art graphics (the games strength and selling point) if it is just going to be disabled as a matter of course for online play, unless you intend to go in with a handicap.

Is this example the type of optimization, that was promised, we can expect in the final product?

That why you have a slider.

Suggest you reconsider the inclusion of grass in the environmental details, or at least make it apply across the board i.e., a server-sided function.

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

This option is there to allow players with min specs to play the game. Without being able to turn off environment details the min specs would be higher. This is not unique to this game, but something that I've seen in every game I can think of on the market that has grass.

Can't be made a server side setting as it would make problems for people on low spec machines when they join. If you have min system requirements you should be able to play the game.

I know the system isn't perfect, and that's why I'm only offering a suggestion as you will most likely run into people wanting the game to perform with more FPS and as such turning of the environment details, and as such the grass won't help you either. But if you play with die hard tactical people they will most likely use grass as it adds to the gameplay.

[Cangaroo.TNT]

^ Well said, Wolfsong. I can't think of ANY option that will not benfit one player over another. People running at the highest resolution, details, shadows, and sound will always have an advantage over those that do not.

So, maybe turning off the environmental details will give someone a slight advantage, but if I can hear you coming and see your shadow, I'll win almost every time.

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

People running at the highest resolution, details, shadows, and sound will always have an advantage over those that do not.

Doesn't always have to be that way. Running on lower settings with higher FPS can sometimes be a better alternative as you will be able to react faster.

But your point is correct. Everything benefits someone.

[Cangaroo.TNT]

@ Wolfsong

You always read my posts too literally. I meant someone that has a system that can handle the maxed settings and still get high FPS. Also, I did say that lower environmental effects could give some a slight advantage, and by that I meant to include more FPS. But, I try to be brief because no one need every post to be a dissertation.

I was trying to pay you a compliment; don't be a jerk! LOL j/k

Edited June 11, 2007 by Cangaroo.TNT

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

@ Wolfsong

You always read my posts too literally. I meant someone that has a system that can handle the maxed settings and still get high FPS. Also, I did say that lower environmental effects could give some a slight advantage, and by that I meant to include more FPS. But, I try to be brief because no one need every post to be a dissertation.

I was trying to pay you a compliment; don't be a jerk! LOL j/k

[=warcloud=]

From what i understand most online players are not bothered about how a game looks , the most important thing is the gameplay, so even if a gamer has quad core and sli or crossfire setup they will opt for the lower graphics settings, and by the sounds of things it would be absolutley pointless to enable high environment details and the like.

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

From what i understand most online players are not bothered about how a game looks , the most important thing is the gameplay, so even if a gamer has quad core and sli or crossfire setup they will opt for the lower graphics settings, and by the sounds of things it would be absolutley pointless to enable high environment details and the like.

But there are still players who want to play a good looking SP or COOP game, and as the options are for the entire game, they are there to provide options for different people.

This is also something that comes down to the PC problem. On console this option wouldn't be needed as everyone would have the same hardware, but on PC it is needed as I said before to make the game available to a wider audience.

[=warcloud=]

From what i understand most online players are not bothered about how a game looks , the most important thing is the gameplay, so even if a gamer has quad core and sli or crossfire setup they will opt for the lower graphics settings, and by the sounds of things it would be absolutley pointless to enable high environment details and the like.

But there are still players who want to play a good looking SP or COOP game, and as the options are for the entire game, they are there to provide options for different people.

This is also something that comes down to the PC problem. On console this option wouldn't be needed as everyone would have the same hardware, but on PC it is needed as I said before to make the game available to a wider audience.

Oh yes i totaly agree with great looking visuals in sp campaign & mp coop and i do understand the need for balance so all can join / play graw2 sp or mp. I had the environment detail slider at 1.0 and after reading here today i realise there is no need for me to have topnotch graphics in tdm or rvsa.

[GRIN_Phillk]

As Wolfsong kind of said the grass has been made with this in mind pretty much. It's a bit of a compromise really: too short to hide in completely but high enough to make some difference.

It's hard to get this perfect as you have to think about the advantage it would give people with faster computers. Or actually in this case perhaps with lower specs.

It's either that or remove stuff completely for everyone which isn't a very nice option either.

But yeah I think the grass height works well enough to make some difference graphically now without giving you disadvantage.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

In GR1 we ran most details on low during matches. High res... but low detail. it let you see through areas of trees at night.

Zulater from TCZ taught us that one as we kept watching this replay of a match wondering how this guy saw us through the bush. As soon as we set it to low... blammo there we were between the leaves.

[philkilla]

Just don't hide in the grass. Use a bush. Simple enough.

[Ghost9]

I hate that people can remove concealment with a slider bar. that has always driven me nuts about games. I understand why the option is there, but I hate it. I wish there was some other way of improving performance than taking away stuff like concealment. I've played other games where you could remove all plant life in the options which is just retarded when you think you're hiding in foliage and to others you're just sitting out in the open. drives me nuts. but what can you do.... the price of scalability i suppose. Bugs me that to be on the same playing field I have to turn off all the prettiness in a game. I'm a graphics whore first and foremost. oh well...

I understand, but I hate it.

Edited June 12, 2007 by Ghost9

[deleyt]

It's hard to get this perfect as you have to think about the advantage it would give people with faster computers. Or actually in this case perhaps with lower specs.

It's either that or remove stuff completely for everyone which isn't a very nice option either.

[Guest]

I wish there was a way to level the playing field for everyone. I hate getting shot by a guy who is still running, or hasn't even come around a corner yet:)

[JASGripen]

As far as TvT matching goes, it would be nice to have the option (n.b.) to have gfx settings set on the server side (just a wish, not a patch suggestion).

If mine and another clan are to match we know who sits on the weakest PC on each team and can set the gfx settings on desired level.

[PoRn-KoDiaK-]

I think it should be a server side option. Thus giving the host the choice on what type of cover/foliage everyone in the room will see. This puts everyone on the same playing field without any advantages/disadvantages towards anyone in the room. If someone can't join the room because their system does not meet the requirements, well then they always have the option of hosting their own game or finding another room that they are capable of playing in.

This is the same issue we had with Ghost Recon... I like to play with graphics as high as my PC will allow. But I found that in order to compete with the other players I had to dumb down my graphics so that I could see people as easily as they saw me. For instance, I turned up tree/foliage graphics to max, found that I could hide in/behind bushes quite well. But with players turning their graphics down they basically removed 3/4 of the tree/bush graphics, thus enabling them to see me when I couldn't see them if they were in a similar position to me. So, dumb them down so that I wasn't getting owned by people basically cheating by turning down graphics. IMO

[Logos]

Configuring the game settings (not to mention your computer) to maximize your success in an online MP game should not be a sidenote or afterthought or as seems to be in this case, a surprise.. It is a key PART of MP gaming. Everyone should configure his/her system and game the best they possibly know how and talk to other people for advice on doing it better. A slider removes high grass? Then slide it and remove it. Now you're on equal footing. This is not a big deal. Like Roco said, in GR1, serious players ran at the highest res possible, but lowest settings. My clan actually ran high details on the characters (low on everything else) because we felt it improved contrast against backgrounds and made it easier to distinguigh players from props at a distance. I can't say for sure now which is better, but the point is that we adjusted every single thing to the best of our ability to maximize our chances of killing mofos.

For the record, this is not like a remove cover hack for the simple fact that everyone has it. Use it. Give yourself every legal advantage. This is an element of every game. Anyone who hasn't been doing this sort of thing for years was shown the light by this thread, not a flaw.

[viiiper]

This is the same issue we had with Ghost Recon... I like to play with graphics as high as my PC will allow. But I found that in order to compete with the other players I had to dumb down my graphics so that I could see people as easily as they saw me. For instance, I turned up tree/foliage graphics to max, found that I could hide in/behind bushes quite well. But with players turning their graphics down they basically removed 3/4 of the tree/bush graphics, thus enabling them to see me when I couldn't see them if they were in a similar position to me. So, dumb them down so that I wasn't getting owned by people basically cheating by turning down graphics. IMO

I think Grin has said, the environment slider is locked in multipayer, so no funny stuff from those that, like to remove grass etc... As for any other little tricks, we will have the power to judge those that kill like GOD and if found to be playing unfairly, bye bye....

BDA

[GHOST_Sup]

This is the same issue we had with Ghost Recon... I like to play with graphics as high as my PC will allow. But I found that in order to compete with the other players I had to dumb down my graphics so that I could see people as easily as they saw me. For instance, I turned up tree/foliage graphics to max, found that I could hide in/behind bushes quite well. But with players turning their graphics down they basically removed 3/4 of the tree/bush graphics, thus enabling them to see me when I couldn't see them if they were in a similar position to me. So, dumb them down so that I wasn't getting owned by people basically cheating by turning down graphics. IMO

I think Grin has said, the environment slider is locked in multipayer, so no funny stuff from those that, like to remove grass etc... As for any other little tricks, we will have the power to judge those that kill like GOD and if found to be playing unfairly, bye bye....

BDA

It certainly isn't locked in the Demo. I was playing with the slider at 100% this whole time and using the grass for cover. Little did I know that to somebody with it off, I was a sitting duck. I just turned it off to see what it looks like and all I can say is wow. As ugly as it looks, I'll now be playing with it off.

[viiiper]

This is the same issue we had with Ghost Recon... I like to play with graphics as high as my PC will allow. But I found that in order to compete with the other players I had to dumb down my graphics so that I could see people as easily as they saw me. For instance, I turned up tree/foliage graphics to max, found that I could hide in/behind bushes quite well. But with players turning their graphics down they basically removed 3/4 of the tree/bush graphics, thus enabling them to see me when I couldn't see them if they were in a similar position to me. So, dumb them down so that I wasn't getting owned by people basically cheating by turning down graphics. IMO

I think Grin has said, the environment slider is locked in multipayer, so no funny stuff from those that, like to remove grass etc... As for any other little tricks, we will have the power to judge those that kill like GOD and if found to be playing unfairly, bye bye....

BDA

It certainly isn't locked in the Demo. I was playing with the slider at 100% this whole time and using the grass for cover. Little did I know that to somebody with it off, I was a sitting duck. I just turned it off to see what it looks like and all I can say is wow. As ugly as it looks, I'll now be playing with it off.

I think (know) if you join an online server, your environmental detail slider is locked at 1.00 (full) The only time it's not locked is when your hosting. Try it

[GHOST_Sup]

I think (know) if you join an online server, your environmental detail slider is locked at 1.00 (full) The only time it's not locked is when your hosting. Try it

Makes sense, I did try it on a LAN server. That's good to know. BTW viiiper, remember our Vent chat regarding the Nvidia SLI setup about a year ago?

[viiiper]

np Ghost

[Odedge]

I think (know) if you join an online server, your environmental detail slider is locked at 1.00 (full) The only time it's not locked is when your hosting. Try it

It was mention by someone from GRIN that you can't change it while in a game. You can set it to 0 and play on any MP server. I have it set to 0 (mainly for performance reasons) and can play just fine.