buddhiraja73 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 (edited) The AI in Graw has taken a big step in the right direction and this is the best I have ever seen. Atlast, we have found an AI which is suitable for tactical combat. The military expert and the programmers, who have worked on this AI, have done a great job in including lots of realistics traits and that is not easy to do. PLUSES -- As promised, they are actually self preserving, lean and shoot, move from cover to cover, and can be suppressed. -- They have realistic aim, reaction times, movement speeds and also realistic senses. If I shoot an enemy and miss. it is highly entertaining to watch the NPC looking around and not knowing exactly where I am. This is so realistic. -- During a firefight, they try not to pop out from the same spot all the time and sometimes, try to sneak away to a different cover, if possible. I have encountered an enemy behind a tree and -- he first leaned on the left side while crouching, popped a shot and went back. Then he did the same , while leaning on the right side. Then he emerged on the right again, but this time he was standing. I was expecting him in a crouched position. -- They use suppressive fire a lot and I really like it. Attimes, they try to flank. -- Some enemies, especially after we have killed the majority in a group, just hide and do not shoot. When the player moves up, thinking he has killed everyone, he gets shot. -- They are unpredictable in the way they operate and change their actions based on my action. They react differently everytime you replay. -- The added movements, like diving and sliding for cover, and other small and partial movements, are also very welcome. -- Sometimes, they peek and check out an area, before doing someting. This looks so realistic. I just wish that they did this all the time. Enemies signalling to their mates, using hand signals, also look cool. Again, I wish they did it more frequently. -- The enemies, when in a group, spread out and don't huddle together. -- I have rushed enemies, and often, they have been suitable indecisive as they should be when surprised. REQUESTS The following are minor problems that I have noticed in this wonderful AI. I know that small weaknesses are bound to be present. I guess my expectation has been raised after seeing the Graw AI. -- It would have been even better if the enemies flanked in a wider arc, where possible. More frequent flanking maneuvers would also be welcome. Also, when flanking, they do not always move from cover to cover, and are sometimes caught out in the open. -- They react to covering fire, but an improvement in this area would be great. When low obstacles are involved, like a car, they take cover behind that and fire back even though they are being fired upon. If they had just kept their head down, it would be even more realistic. -- Occasionally, the enemies lose track of the player and the direction of their threat, even though I have not moved. -- At-times, the Ghosts die by walking into suppressive fire and also come infront of the player and get shot. I hope that is looked into. -- Occasionally, a Ghost does not follow a cover order and starts engaging other enemies, even though they were not firing on him. -- I would like the enemies to use grenades occasionally. Maybe, that is in the final version. -- I hope to see the enemies to retreat to a safer spot when outnumbered. -- I also hope to see the enemies establish diagonal fire lanes. -- A general improvement of all the wonderful qualities already included. These adjustments would make the AI near perfect for tactical combat. As it is, they are so good. The Co-op and SP players are in for a great time, for quite some time to come, especially after the modding tools come out. Thank you Grin. Edited April 30, 2006 by buddhiraja73 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sui317 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 i have also noticed that my team mates do have a weak point in walking in front of my barrel, though not very often, and once or twice in 3 hours i think it is no big deal, the rebel ai is quite a surprize as i have found them wandering of, making use of cover and reacting to sound they do Come for you even if they were not in the initial battle but sometimes they do get relaxed too quickly, 10 seconds no fire and they sart doing their routine again, maybe it is just the demo but i would surely investigate more if i were them, but all in all it is great even the sneaky snipers are although sometimes they are a pain in the ass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoa182 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 (edited) For the first time ever in a game I have more confidence in my team being able to look after themselves. If you watch on the Cross Comm you see how they move and look around before just running out into the open, they work as a team to cover everywhere. Enemy A.I is quite impressive also Its definitily a big step up from other games. Edited April 30, 2006 by whoa182 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrayDre Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 For the first time ever in a game I have more confidence in my team being able to look after themselves. If you watch on the Cross Comm you see how they move and look around before just running out into the open, they work as a team to cover everywhere. Enemy A.I is quite impressive also Its definitily a big step up from other games. ← Agreed the AI is very good and is a new kinda AI if you compare to todays AI....Nice joob Grin Keep It Real!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRP 56 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 The enemy A.I. is pretty good but I still don't feel the tension I did with GR's A.I. as most of GRAW's A.I. stay in the same area and very few advance on you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aCid Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 the AI is simply awesome, and finnally a post thats appriciating what grin has brought us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAF_Biffa Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 It could be a scripting issue where they can be set on a more aggresive level if they're suppose to be attacking, remember this mission we're the ones who are suppose to attack, these guys could be on defence, patrol etc rather than assault. Wonder what they would be like on the offensive! I've already mentioned it earlier on a different thread but for my money I think the AI rocks! Great for replayability and I'm sure it will only get better. Nj GRIN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calius Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 The enemy A.I. is pretty good but I still don't feel the tension I did with GR's A.I. as most of GRAW's A.I. stay in the same area and very few advance on you. ← True but even when GR1 was out the AI was updated for nearly each patch that came out fo one reason or another. Im guessing the AI will be tweaked a touch more. Im coming from the Demo perspective, maybe in full game on other maps its a completely different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dekela Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 are you guys playing the same GRAW demo as me, cause the AI is rubbish. opfor AI you can drop 2 before number three even thinks to look your way, and blufor AI have a nasty habit of run and gun fever. sorry guys, but i think the AI needs a lot of work cheers...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.P. Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 I have to agree, this AI is the some of the best, if not THE best AI I have seen(especialy for friendly forces). Great job GRIN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strapt Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 I have to agree, this AI is the some of the best, if not THE best AI I have seen(especialy for friendly forces). Great job GRIN. ← I think we have all got rose tinted glasses whe it comes to [GR] I remember trying to set up a siege on the farmhouse map. I was facing the house and had my team covering various windows etc. Not an enemy sneaked right us from behind (within 6-10 metres) I just happend to press map for some reason and he was on there. This means that someone on my team was looking right at him but hadn' d fired). We were all set to assault. More importantly the enemy hadn't shot us. I was prone and turned round without standing up. There were no bushes/cover around me so he could blatantly "see" me, but he didn't fire. Similar things happened with the AI turning to face the direction of an enemy which was on the other side of the map or behind a wall etc. As the enemy approached, my team would track the enemy even thought they couldn't actually "see" him. The enemy would do the same to us. They/my team would magically be facing the right way when they eventually got line of sight. This was most noticable for me on the castle maps. From what i've seen so far this hasn't happened in the demo and gives GRAW one more plus point over [GR]. I agree with what a lot of what the origianl poster said. He/she said they'd like to see the enemy use more frags. i'd like to see my team use frags (dare i suggest this TKs for sure, RvS ai cant even throw a FB through an open door most of the time). It would add to the game, but I wouldn't want them to think they can start a frag fest or something. In [GR] i could only ever get my team to use frags ( i think it was more GLs than frags) if I set them to suppress, but then they'd just empty their clips every time they saw an enemy until they had no bullets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.P. Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 This reminds me; Has anyone seen the friendly AI use the attached grenade launcher?? (I have not, nor the hand-grenades) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sui317 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 i haven't seen them use secondairy weapons eighter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agentkay Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 (edited) I have seen a few stupid moments with the friendly AI. For instance in one case there is small alley with a sniper on the roof and I just wanted to test what one of my guys does when I sent him thru the alley while I was watching him from a distance. He walks thru there, sniper sees him and fires and my guy starts to whine "Capt. I´m hit" and drops dead a few seconds later. He did turn towards the sniper but didn´t look up. However, I admit, that SOB of a sniper got me two times until I figured out where he was as well. In another case I ordered my sniper guy to a position facing down a street. I used the tactical map and pulled the scan arc out but then I checked his cam and the guy was scaning a different angle. I know the reason for that was because I issued it too close to a building and the sniper likes to take cover and hide in darker spots. When I issued the order again but this time further away from the building, he did as he was told to and scaned the right angle. Today I also paid more attention on their general movement when "follow" order is active, and I have to admit, it impressed me a little. Not only they scan the angles that I don´t, for instance when I scan north, they scan, east , west, and south side. But they also "run" everytime they come to a cross section where the could be fired at from the sides, and then they switch back to the more quiet "walk" speed. This was happening when I was walking myself (backwards) as I inspected their movement and they didn´t fall behind a lot either. Their movement/tatics do seem to change somewhat to the worse side when I run a lot. Overall I think the friendly AI isn´t bad at all once you figure it out their weaknesses and plan your movement and tactics around it. It can definitly show its strenghts more when orders are issued thru the tactical map than thru the first person orders. A "marker" (like in BIA, or Lockdown) for the first person orders might have been a helpful tool which could have avoided a lot of dead AIs and angry human players. P.S. Regarding the enemy AI. I really like how they can hear and plan an attack even if they have no eye contact. I was at savepoint 6, and the big square place, just playing around, watching the player animation and weapons thru my Ghosts eyes, shooting them up a little with the sniper rifle and after I killed all my guys. A few seconds later I was attacked from 2 different sides by 2 guys each. They didn´t manage to kill me, but I surely was enjoyed that experience. Edited April 30, 2006 by agentkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strapt Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Has anyone see a teamate use a grenade yet or anything other than the primary weapon yet? In the into video one guy throws a smoke close to the tank so that it can't see, while an AT guy rockets it. If the ai guys arent gonna use their extra stuff I may as well give them all 2 slots of extra ammo Then I can take a gl with extra hand grenades. That should just about cover us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddhiraja73 Posted April 30, 2006 Author Share Posted April 30, 2006 It could be a scripting issue where they can be set on a more aggresive level if they're suppose to be attacking, remember this mission we're the ones who are suppose to attack, these guys could be on defence, patrol etc rather than assault. That is a good point. In the demo mission, most of the enemies are probably in a defense mode, with only a few floaters who are allowed to leave an area completely. This is perhaps because of the nature of the mission, where we are the attackers. The only time the enemies attack all out is -- when we are required to defend the area around the limo. There are very few rebels, so we don't get the full feeling but they surely were awesome in that short period. I would love to see the aggressive state of this Graw AI, with more flanking maneuvers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddhiraja73 Posted April 30, 2006 Author Share Posted April 30, 2006 I have seen a few stupid moments with the friendly AI. For instance in one case there is small alley with a sniper on the roof and I just wanted to test what one of my guys does when I sent him thru the alley while I was watching him from a distance. He walks thru there, sniper sees him and fires and my guy starts to whine "Capt. I´m hit" and drops dead a few seconds later. He did turn towards the sniper but didn´t look up. However, I admit, that SOB of a sniper got me two times until I figured out where he was as well. But don't you think that is incredibly realistic. The NPCs do not automatically know where their enemies are, and have to find out, just like us. I would take this example as a huge plus point for the AI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksaww Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Has anyone see a teamate use a grenade yet or anything other than the primary weapon yet? Yes. Ive seen them use their UGL's in special circumstances, Usually when they're under fire from a covered enemy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trident-za Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 I'm getting more an more impressed with the AI the longer I play this demo. A huge percentage of the times I've thought "what is that idiot doing now?" has been down to my own stupidity and not understanding the way the team AI is setup. If you try put them in an open area, they will move to the shadows instead. Sometimes this involves them moving around a bit before settling on a "good" spot, but it's still obvious to me that they are more "intelligent" than ever before. I've been flanked and attacked by the enemy AI. Other times, they take cover and wait for me to try and flush them out. Not sure how they "decide" what to do, but their behaviour varies considerably. Perhaps it's down to numbers.... the one time I was attacked there were about 4 of them charging me, and another 2 or 3 providing covering fire. Was very intense indeed, and thank God for my own team getting me out of the brown stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agentkay Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 (edited) I have seen a few stupid moments with the friendly AI. For instance in one case there is small alley with a sniper on the roof and I just wanted to test what one of my guys does when I sent him thru the alley while I was watching him from a distance. He walks thru there, sniper sees him and fires and my guy starts to whine "Capt. I´m hit" and drops dead a few seconds later. He did turn towards the sniper but didn´t look up. However, I admit, that SOB of a sniper got me two times until I figured out where he was as well. But don't you think that is incredibly realistic. The NPCs do not automatically know where their enemies are, and have to find out, just like us. I would take this example as a huge plus point for the AI. ← Okay, you have a good point there. After all I probably didn´t look any better when that same sniper got me. P.S. I do like the AI a lot, but it has still some room for improvement, which isn´t a bad thing. Edited April 30, 2006 by agentkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spotH3D Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Best AI I've ever seen in this kind of a game. Not perfect though, needs to figure out when to fall back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degamer Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 I would rate OPFOR AI as the best I've played against in a game. Simply amazing! At first I thought the team AI was just horrible... But after a little more time at the wheel, I seem to only have problems with my SAW gunner (whats his name, Brown? The first slot). He usually tries his best to get me killed, then run off into a glorious hail of bullets. After his death, me and the team can complete the mission with no real problems. I have isnce taken the habbit of whenever a firefight breaks out, using a move order to send him as far away from me as possible, or if I'm feeling vindictive, shooting him in the helo before the mission starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokin Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 Doing a few stealth runs to see how AI react. Its pretty cool so far, I was able to lay prone on the other side of a low 2-3' concrete wall while the enemy walked right by me without reacting. Alot more to check out, but definetly looks like there is stealth possabilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertranger12 Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 i agree with every thing you had to say buddhiraja. ive also seen that when, especially when engaged by the turret, that the ghosts just seem to sit there and keep firing while they are being shot to pieces, i hope thats fixed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Zulu Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 The AI was my main concern in-regards to this next Gen title. There are a few concerns here and there, but as I dive even deeper into the mechanics of guiding your men, I find that they are only as dumb as thier commander, being you and I. If you were to re-install RVS and play it before playing this game, you'll notice a 85% turn around from than to now. I've had to stop playing RVS on many instances, because they would dounforgivable things that even Hellen Keller couldve seen coming. Alot of AI programming has been done here men, and I think that there will be plenty of memories to share, as we wait to receive the full game. Non the less, until we receive the final product, I will hold back a final verdict of whats to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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