buddhiraja73

This game might actually have much more tactical options and features and a much improved AI to actually implement the tactics. But the FIRST PERSON OPTION is a must for me.

Has UBI made a definite decision regarding the PC view ? I have personally never enjoyed any 3rd person perspective shooter.

Micro-management of squad members is out, it is all about the link-up system and close quarters melee combat. What if I want my squad to flank a certain position as I suppress it OR I want my squad to suppress a position as I flank it. Also, ROE, like recon mode, is indispensible, isn't it ?

I have thought a lot about it. The GR series, for even the pc platform, is becoming so xboxish that I am not sure about anything anymore unless there are clear confirmations from the devs. I am equally concerned about this limited ordering system. How can we have a tactical shooter if we cannot order our troops ? What would be the difference from COD then ? But I guess this issue requirees a separate thread for discussing it properly and in detail.

From the last released E3 video. it seems that we will be moving in third person and switch to first person only while aiming. I don't like it personally because it is giving me an unfair advantage of checking out the surroundings even when ducking behind cover. would strongly like the OPTION of first person view all the time. What do you guys feel about this ? Is there any information about whether this option will be there ?

First, I must say that my gaming pc is down and I haven't played Graw2 yet. So, I am commenting on my experience of playing Graw 1. Rocky, you have a very valid point there. The improvements since 2001 have indeed been much slower than we expected, in the AI department. But there is one area in which the Graw AI is much better than [GR]. They are much more self preserving, can be suppressed into cover and use the edges of cover much better, like peeking and shooting after taking firing positions near the edges of covers. In [GR], this aspect was totally lacking. I personally don't mind AIs making occasional mistakes but certain areas need a lot of attention like - Group behavior, formation and tactical movement. Enemy groups move tactically, cover each other, have their firing arcs defined and stack up where necessary. - Realistic qualities , the lack of which you have shown in your vid. Unrealistic detection abilities, too good or too bad ( like enemies spotting me in the dark like Graw 1, seeing me through foliage, automatically kowing where i am, even if I have changed my position behind cover, not being aware of a firefight 50 m away and not noticing buddies being killed next to him etc. ), unrealistic reaction times etc. really need to go away in 2007. - Even in 2007, we are not seeing enemy groups using significantly better strategies and tactics than they did in [GR] in 2001. Infact, the enemies in Island Thunder were much more aggresive and attacking than GRAW 1.

A few things I would definitely like to be added to GRAW2 are AI - My team can be ordered into a closer formation. This is very important in certain situations and was something I missed badly in Graw. Different types of formations for my team would be really welcome. the enemies will also form closer formations when appropriate. - The enemies are more aggressive when the situation is suitable and attack us more purposefully and alertly, gun at the ready, actively scanning for targets. ( In Graw the enemies often did not attack us even when the situation was fitting and even when they did, they did not actively scan for targets ). - All the trained soldiers when in a team, whether enemies or friendlies, will take firing positions and have their fire sectors defined. Group behaviour would be the most important thing. - Generally, the strategy element of the enemy GROUPS is increased. They will decide when to attack and which path to take and when to relocate/ retreat. The enemies will relocate or retreat as a team when they feel that they are losing. They will use cover fire to do so. They may call in re-inforcements dynamically. - More patrolling enemies with large patrolling routes, so that we are not sure where we will meet them. Also, patrolling enemies behaved the best in Graw. - Enemies 'hear' better. - When under threat or when being fired upon, the accuracy of the bots decrease somewhat. MODDING - A mission editor for the Single player mode. Also, all the Co-op maps can be used in SP mode. I think all the developers in Grin would agree that the SP side really lacked much replayability and additional stuff. - Please allow the [GR] co-op to be played with with all the AI team-mates if I so choose. GENERAL - Improved models for trees. p.s - Grin, thanks for the recon mode for my team. I had written about it a lot and you guys really DO listen.

sui, that's a nice idea.

AI ( contd..) - Assuming we get open terrain like GR1, the AI groups make tactical decisions regarding the path they want to attack , or not attack, based on the topography, my squad strength, their squad strength etc. - While moving up, the AI does so from cover to cover. This does not always happen in Graw. - And as I have already written, tactical movement by enemy groups, no matter how small, would be great. - Currently, we have 2 or 3-soldiers groups that move while trying to attack the player. I would like bigger enemy groups trying to attack the player, like 4 to 6. - Enemies use smoke grenades occasionally. Squad command ( contd.. ) - Different formations possible for my team by using buttons on the tac-map. Miscellaneous ( contd..) - More enemy vehicle like trucks, jeeps, motorboats etc. - The vehicles have large patrolling areas rather than being triggered by some event and moving from point A to B. They will patrol the map continuously. - The maps are more gritty and atmospheric. - Please make the game extremely scalable by an in-game menu so that all the options that can be turned off and on, can be done so from within the game. p.s - With the wonderful tactical map and AI that Grin has made, don't you dream of an old GR-like setup, multiple teams to command on the tac map, enemies also attacking with multiple teams in a wide open and large map and a very dynamic and tactical battle would enfold ( as opposed to the single team CQB-like battle of Graw ) ?

Please post about the new things that you want to see. Requests which are made much later will have little chance of being incorporated. @sui317 I really like your point about calling for a resupply, mid-mission, based on our needs. It would be ideal for the dynamic gameplay that we dream of. @Papa6, You have come up with some important points regarding modding. I am very interested in knowing what the other moddders would ideally like to see, as an efficient and easy to use modding tool. A detailed discussion on this would be interesting. TvT players, what new modes can you think of to make Graw 2 more interesting ?

I know that everything I dream of won't be in Graw2 but nevertheless .... ( maybe they will be in Graw 3 ) I have genuinely enjoyed the truely tactical gameplay of Graw and thank the developers for that. I want Graw 2 to take the legacy of a true tactical shooter forward. Firstly, I want major enhancements in gameplay rather than in graphics. Let Graw 2 be one of the few games where gameplay gets loads and loads of attention. The graphics in Graw is good and major improvements are not needed. We just need proper AA, some more colour used in the maps and better quality grass and foliage. ( I know that we cannot have proper AA with deferred lighting -- so change the deferred lighting if possible. ) Major improvements in graphics would raise the system requirement further and many many players would not be able to play the game. Personally, I would rather have ok graphics which I can set at high with all options on, rather than have great graphics which I can never experience because I have to play at low-medium. GAME STRUCTURE Ideally, I would like a completely open and non-linear game structure. Let's say a small country is taken over by rebels. There will be a 'general' mode where I plan where I want to attack and a 'Ghost' mode where I actually fight as a Ghost. In the general mode, where I am an US general, I will have the ability to choose which part of the country ( which map ) I want to attack first. I will have all the information available till date regarding the topography, landmarks and rough enemy numbers etc. Enemies will go about their daily activities like patrolling, talking to each other, receiving instructions from superiors, sleeping , eating etc., that is I would like a good non-combat AI. I can attack any part ( map ) at any time I deem fit, like dawn, noon, night etc. In case the entire Ghost team dies, I will have to send another Ghost team. In that case the enemies will be better prepared for another attack. Depending on the outcome of a mission the next mission that I choose might vary, like say I blow a bridge and this might result in the enemies not able to send in reinforcements or I blow up an AA gun and this will allow me to use an Apache etc. A map that I have taken over will be controlled by the US soldiers and some of them maybe reattacked by the rebels. I will be send in to defend alongside the US troops present. In short, I dream of a completely dynamic and non-linear gameplay which requires preplanning. For the casual player, who does not like to plan, a set mission order will be available. AI The AI in Graw is very good and I hope that all the goodpoints will stay. But I would like quite a few additions -- - The group behavior for the enemies needs improvement. I would like the enemies to be more aggressive and attack as a team using bounding overwatch. If they feel that they are being outnumbered, they will relocate or retreat as a team using cover fire. I would like the enemies to flank in a wider arc when possible and a better co-ordination of suppression and flanking by the different enemies in a group will be welcome. - The enemies may call in reinforcements in a dynamic manner, depending on the situation. If we can kill the existing enemies and move on, we may avoid the reinforcements, but they may chase us to a different section of the map if we are nearby and pick up a firefight. - There are too many defensive enemies in Graw, like those who come out of vehicles. In [GR] especially after IT, the enemies were more aggressive and attacked us more frequently. I would like that. Once the enemies know of our presence, they will not relax anymore unless we are killed. In Graw, they slip into a relaxed mode very quickly. I would like the enemies to be more inquisitive. - More patrolling enemies and lesser defensive and 'attack at all cost' enemies. Patrolling enemies are the most realistic ones and most fun to fight against. - Enemies that 'hear' better and can 'hear' sounds at normal range. - When the AI attacks, whether enemies or friendlies, I would like them to use corners better and check out every corner before they move. Currently this aspect is often weak, especially when the AI is not being suppressed. I would like the enemies to move more objectively and cautiously when they are aware of our presence or are investigating. - The enemies will occasionally use grenades. SQUAD CONTROL It is pretty well done but the additions required are - ROE like [GR]. - Friendlies stay closer to me, like in real life, and cover my flank and rear. - Someone mentioned this in another post -- the abilility to bind the friendlies, like 2 +2. I like the concept. Basically a way to have multiple teams if that feature is not given. - A cross-com command telling friendlies to use GL or grenades. - Ability to take/ switch weapons from friendlies, even fallen mates. MODDING AND REPLAYABILITY - All maps, whether originally present or user-made, are usable in all game modes, like in [GR]. Any map will be usable in SP, Co-op and all MP modes. - Powerful and easy to use mission editor. In [GR], this was very easy. I remember that I used to put in lots of enemy groups of 6 tangoes in any map and gave them large patrolling areas. This game me original gameplay almost everytime I played. I never knew where I would face the enemy. I would like this feature in the Graw 2 editor. Igor is a very good example to follow. - Map and mission editor for the 'single player mode' as well.- Easier modding for everything including weapons modding. - Randomly placed enemies in missions and firefights. - As stated earlier, completely non-linear mission structure where all objectives on a map are known from the beginning and all parts of the map are accessible at all times. - Remembering that enhancing replayability is the key to the heart of hardcore GR fans. SOUND The sound is pretty good, so there isn't much more to ask, just a couple of points - More natural sounds like birds calling, insects breaking the silence etc. Incase we get forest or woodland maps, I hope the forest feels alive. - All the gun shot sounds are as good as the Scar-L and H. The other 2 assault rifles sound a bit weak. - There is more sound when we step into water. This did not happen in mission 4. GRAPHICS As I have stated earlier, the graphics are quite ok. We just need - Better grass and foliage. - The maps feel less grey/ yellow and there is more true colour. Almost all colours in Graw have a greyish and/or yellowish tinge. - Proper AA ( not use deferred lighting in order to do this, if possible on the part of the developers. ) - Slighly darker shadows for buildings/trees . MISCELLANEOUS - Multiple teams possible like [GR]. - I would like the player to die with lesser number of shots and have more frequent checkpoints to balance the gameplay. The ability to take too many shots, like Graw, reduces the tension somewhat. - Giving as many options, as possible, in anything and everything. - Larger selection of weapons. - Ability to choose from a collection of optical sights, for all guns. - Animals and birds present in forests, domestic animals in farms. - More indoor areas to access. - A nice mix of rural and urban maps. - A very enjoyable and relatively trouble-free multiplayer experience. Please add your dreams and wishes to this thread, for an ideal Graw2.

But not in single player.

I am talking about single player.

NEGATIVES ( CONTD..) - After all these months, there is still no 'firefight ' mode for Graw in single player. Nor are there any other modes and there is no news regarding whether there is going to be any at all. - There is still no editor for single player and the maps for [GR] co-op, that are being made, cannot be used in SP. [GR] scored heavily on this issue. All maps could be used in all modes and that was something special. Igor was special in that regard also. Graw is scoring poorly on replayability, flexibility and variation. - There are no ROE for friendlies, like [GR] had, and this is limiting the stealthy gameplay somewhat. - I would have prefered the city to be a bit more colourful. In Graw, Mexico City seems to have only a few colours. Would any TvT or PvP player like to compare that aspect, now that they have played for quite sometime after the 1.30 patch ?

@ Kakanater I agree to large extent. But this has been the problem with all the games in the GR and Rainbow series and some other tactical shooers, not just Graw. It does not feel like I am a part of a living world. Ideally, I would have liked the enemies to go about their daily activities in a more realistic way. Currently, the only normal thing they do is patrol. I would like to see enemies laughing and talking among themselves, an officer comes in a car, gives them instructions and go away, soldiers sleeping or eating in camps etc. etc. In a nutshell, I want to see some non-combat AI and activity. This includes seeing animals and birds when I am going through a forest. Among tactical shooters, Operation Flashpoint has given this feeling to some extent by using cutscenes. I like the idea of using cutscenes but we should be able to skip them by using a single key, while replaying. Vietcong has also created this feel of a living world to some extent. Obviously, RPG games have it and it feels really nice and immersive. I disagree with the fact that the feeling of a war going on is needed as a full-fledged war is not really going on. I like the feel and suspense of a normal environment which is going to be broken when a firefight breaks out. I am waiting for the day when Clancy games would have a living world where I can wage tactical combat.

This is looking like a great mod. Will there be any SP ? How many maps will be there approximately ?

Hi Nutlink, friendlies are hardly helpful in a tactical shooter if we cannot give them orders. I would like the complete thing. You have put in some good work in the modding department. Can you work on converting [GR] co-op maps to SP ?

One of the main reasons I play Graw is because it is a team game and I don't have to be Rambo. I guess most of the forum members would mirror that feeling. So, computer-controlled team-mates need to be added to [GR] co-op for the sake of SP players. If not possible then 'firefight' and editor need to be added for SP and ... [GR] co-op maps need to be playable in SP. p.s- though Grin is generally very communicative with the fans they have choosen to remain silent on this issue even though I have asked them a number of times.

I agree Peace. It is indeed sad that some of these very flexible [GR] concepts, like all maps for all game modes, editor for all modes, firefight and recon for SP etc. were abandoned in Graw. It is this piece-meal approach that has diminished the popularity of Graw, even though this game has tremendous potential. It is options, replayability and flexibility that makes a game great. I fail to understand .......

-- All the mission objectives are given at the beginning of the mission and the entire map is accessible to the player. This is one aspect that I really liked about [GR], and I hope it is brought back when the GRAW mission pack is released. If, just one part of the map is useable, like Graw, then the wonderful maps are somewhat underutilized. -- More enemy vehicles, like trucks, jeeps etc., which patrol the map carrying rebels. -- A cross-com command which orders a teammate to use Grenades or GL. -- Rebels occationally use frag grenades to flush us out.

I had the time to play some Graw after almost a month's gap. Still enjoying the AI a lot as they react differently everytime I replay. But I need to point out a few things -- -- Enemies that come out of vehicles, spread out initially and take positions BUT, after that, no-matter what happens, they do not move, flank or try to move up, even if it is one or two of them. It would better if they are mobile and are able to flank. Fixed enemies are only necessary for defensive postions like machinegun nests or someone covering a certain direction. -- Enemies defending roadblocks do not move much and that is understandable but, even if I flank them or come from behind, they still do not move from their positions in order to save themselves. -- As I have written previously in this thread, the patrolling enemies are the toughest, most interesting and more versatile than the other types of enemies ( enemies stuck to a specific postion and enemies that attack at all costs ). So, in any future releases, maps or gametypes, a larger percentage of patrolling enemies would be great. -- I would like the AI to use the prone position more often, as a mean of reducing himself as a target, especially when there are no cover nearby, Are you guys/gals still enjoying the AI after a few months of playing ?

This is a very important topic for future GR releases -- 1) The superb and tactical AI that is self preserving and react differently every time we replay. I love the way they can be suppressed and also try to supress us. This feature is absolutely necessary for a true tactical shooter. They ty to flank and also fool the player by moving to a different spot, emerging from a different edge etc.. To me, the AI is the biggest plus in Graw pc. 2) The quick command system using the cross-com and the ability to order Ghosts to 'cover' a specific area. The whole command system using the tac map and the cross-com, is superbly done and a clear value addition. 3) The first person weapon view- This is a much wanted feature by many GR fans and is very well done. The addition of this feature is a very big plus for me. 4) Weapon customization- Another much anticipated feature which had added a lot of value to the series. 5) Physics and effects - Though this is as a result of technology improving, nevertheless, I love the addition of physics and effects, especially bullet and weapon effects, in Graw. 6) Weapon and bullet hit sounds are very well done in Graw.

-- Map + mission editor for Single Player. -- Firefight mode in SP which can be played using all maps, whether original or user-made. Any other new game mode. -- Black Scar and M4. Also, more choice of weapons and attachments. -- Better frame rates and more in-game graphics optimization choices. -- Friendly AI has modes like attack, recon etc. -- Abuility to enter buildings and indoor areas. -- Enemy AI that retreats as a group, when overpowered, to a safer spot. -- Jungle type environments and mountains as well. -- Ability to choose from a collection of optical sights for all rifles. p.s- Remembering that GR fans, whether SP or MP, want to play this game for a long long time and taking steps to ensure that. Replayability is the key to success in a GR series game.

One solution that is possible, so that the SP players can enjoy added content given in [GR] co-op via patch 1.3, is ---- While playing [GR] co-op using the LAN option, we are allowed to play with all 3 computer-controlled team-mates and we can fix the number of 'spawn' options before the start of the game. As GRAW co-op has this option ( playing with friendly bots ), this should not be difficult to implement for Grin. Grin Wille, can you give this feature in the near future in '[GR] co-op'. As this is already out, I am sure you can comment on this. P.S - It is important that we can play with computer-controlled team-mates as GRAW is a team-based tactical shooter. Playing solo is not my and many others' cup of tea. Grin Wille, can we get this in '[GR] CO-op' of GRAW. I am very eager to know this.

I have voted for GRAW pc because I am mainly a SP gamer and that aspect is better in GRAW imho. The superb AI, quick command system for friendlies, enemies that can be suppressed and are self preserving, weapon customization etc. makes GRAW SP a much more tactical experience. I also love the FPWV and physics. But it must be said that GR was a more complete game which appealed to a wider section of gamers ( SP, Co-op, MP ). Plus, the innumerable SP mods and firefight mode gave the game more variety.