Lightspeed's last words

[Lightspeed]

I played GR for years and years, both extensive MP gaming and intensive modded COOP missions. I have been posting advice and comments in these Forums for the last 2.5 years in the hope that we would eventually get the game we [GR] diehards wanted.

RESULTS:

GRAW DEMO - very happy with it in a COOP respect - a nice improvement on [GR] in that regard. Graffix without AA not bad, but Ive seen a lot better for a 'Next' Gen game. Specifications for this game were high, so I expected excellent performance and high FPS in-game. Just not there, when I can expect high performance from other new game. However, there is good potential it seems.

Demo Overall Score - 7.5/10.

So I thought I would give the Full Version a go, I had prepaid for it after all:

GRAW MP: What an absolute and unforgiveable joke - GRIN and/OR ubisoft have totally stuffed it up!! The maps are OK to look at despite the lack of AA (which I still find annoying to be honest especially when certain objects viewed from certain positions still look jagged). The gameplay and GR feel is completely lost though. I played the GR maps (all 45 or so of them, thousands of times over the years and never really got sick of them - the replayability was there. Now I dont know whether its the gameplay which fails, but the MP is the worst MP I have come across to be honest.

MP Overall Score - 3/10 (no joke, its that pathetic, and I wont bother trying it again in its current state)

SP Campaign - Just started it, however, one thing became apparent quickly. Although, there are many different paths and routes to choose to carry out missions, and different points to attack from, it is still very much scripted. You cannot deviate too far from the objective, and you cannot choose which objectives to complete first. It is linear.

Secondly, only controlling a 4 man team is not only a pain in the ass in many respects, it is not better then [GR] in its structure. You have a very limited range of weapons to choose from (sure you can add a grip here, or combat sight there, but its novelty loadout really).

Thirdly, but certainly not least important, the maps. In [GR], every new mission was a new battlefield. You never knew what you would get, but you knew that it would be a vast, often open terrain, with heaps of variation. GRIN has focused on producing this amazing Mexico City, and it does look speactacular (but who cares really?), I dont want to see urban map after urban map. I want winter scenes, forest, jungle, desert, snow, night, beach, etc etc etc. Again, GRIN AND UBI have failed to deliver.

SP Overall Score - 5.5-6 / 10.

Gather all these downside factors together, all the bugs, the slow performance, the lack of Editor and Im sorry to say, after waiting a good 3 years for the sequel to arrive.

IT IS A BIG FAIL.

Unfortunately, I will be returning this game (unless the MP COOP proves excellent) in its current state for a refund, and I would say to anyone considering buying this game. Dont bother - wait for reviews after a patch is delivered to find out if the wrongs have been righted.

Its a sad moment after such a long wait. Those looking for the next installment...its not here.

Lightspeed out.

(I HOPE THIS POST WONT BE REMOVED TO PROTECT GRIN FEELINGS - THE TRUTH NEEDS TO BE HEARD)

[Reb]

I'm going to return my copy aswell. Yes i have a retail copy! If i wait for the patch, the game will be cheaper. Right now, MP is not fun, so i'll wait...

[Kurtz]

I agree completely.

MP Coop - Great fun until Mitchell dies, then game crashes, everybody booted. First, the team lead position should be selected as in GR and the game should not end with his death. Second, if the mission fails, you should return to a server screen to redo or do another mission, not a complete game crash.

SP - The game could and is really good sometimes, but, it is so arduous and frustrating at times, that the fun is totally sucked out of the game. I am not one of those people that likes to replay a checkpoint 20 or 30 times to advance to the next checkpoint or mission. The gameplay of GR is absent, the variety of maps is absent, a lot of the enjoyment is absent.

[ERIXX]

- Who cares if other games have a better performance Thats for benchmarkers! LOL

- Again the boring AA thing... turn the resolution up and its very good LOL

- Weapons choice ... some people will never be happy...

- SP, scripted: because theres a story line, you wouldn't want to break the story, rescueing the Prez before he is kidnapped! HAHA LOL

- COOP MP, 4 players only: of course its a limitation for 4+ squads... We knew that beforehand.

- Maps variety: GR 1 was not desert, etc when it first came out... WAIT! Many expansions are to come!

So far, the SP only is worth, VERY worth the money, at least for me! Learn to enjoy it, I would say.

Looks to me like some people are awaiting the new Bible, new Koran or the new Everthing-in-One solution in gaming... GR1/[GR] (lol) was not that good either, BUT indeed it was brilliant for squad MP... And that is what Grin will have to fix.

'The truth needs to be heard' : SUPER-LOL

[Lightspeed]

erixx liks this game super duper roflmfao

- so youre happy with a game that lags with explosions?

- i have a 20" wide screen at 1680x1050 (its still jaggy)

- [GR] (multiple sniper, demo, reifleman, support loadouts

GRAW - one support, one sniper, no AT, no demo, 3 other weapons, with or without a handgrip.

- GR without expansion - DOCKS DAY, CASTLE DAY, VILLAGE, TRAINWRECK, MOUNTAIN, FARM DAY, FARM NIGHT, etc, etc etc

GRAW - city, city, city, city.

- MP [GR] - good fun, exc replay value

GRAW - ######.

*snippet removed by moderator*

MODERATOR EDIT: Don't go there, light.

Edited May 9, 2006 by ZJJ

[Manji]

fneh.. someone has already pointed out the flaws in your arguement Lightspeed. We have a game, 1 week post-release that admittedly has a few bugs, a few features that are a month away. You're talking about holding it up against [GR] which included two expansions and however many functional patches. In addition you're "reviewing" a game without actually having played the whole thing, MP included. That is a fatal flaw as well. Wait till you get yourself a legit key and then come back. In todays PC game market, patching post-release is a reality, patching in extra material and functionality shouldn't be expected and yet GRIN have promised to deliver just that. I've played this game online with COOP and Domination and I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised and enjoy it immensely. Sure there's some bugs but what game doesn't have them. Screaming about the sky falling one week out is shortsighted and kneejerk.

[Lightspeed]

a legit key? you're implying i dont have the dvd?

[Logos]

Thirdly, but certainly not least important, the maps. In [GR], every new mission was a new battlefield. You never knew what you would get, but you knew that it would be a vast, often open terrain, with heaps of variation. GRIN has focused on producing this amazing Mexico City, and it does look speactacular (but who cares really?), I dont want to see urban map after urban map. I want winter scenes, forest, jungle, desert, snow, night, beach, etc etc etc. Again, GRIN AND UBI have failed to deliver.

This is where I agree with Lightspeed, this is what is most lacking, and what needs to be addressed with an expansion in the very near future. I think the maps we have are amazing, and I can see that the degree of work that went into them is maybe what limited the total number available at release, but I do wish there had more variety in environments. I'm hopeful that a level editor will alleviate this somewhat, but if everything pre-created for modders to use is urban, that's a heck of a lot more work for modders to model all the things they'll need to create immersive outdoor/natural environments. If we think about [GR], though, it was forest and urban first, desert second, and tropical third. [GR] didn't ship with all of those. We'll have to wait and see how fast expansions come, and what is available to us in the level editor.

If you guys will remember, at the end of one of the devchats, they asked us what sort of environments we wanted in the first expansion. This tells me that they were aware of the "issue" before even shipping, and they were already planning on addressing it in the future. I hope the future comes soon.

As far as the other things, I think a lot will be washed away in the patch. As far as the MP gameplay, aside from bugs, I think the MP gameplay is wonderful, and I think it's worth the GR name. The game doesn't feel so unfamiliar to me.

- Who cares if other games have a better performance Thats for benchmarkers! LOL

- COOP MP, 4 players only: of course its a limitation for 4+ squads... We knew that beforehand.

Who cares about performance? Everyone with mouselag. It goes away at high framerates, but there are a lot of people that can't get there.

COOP limited to 4 players? We also knew beforehand that it could be modded to more than 4, so this is a non-issue for me.

You know, everyone was freaking out a couple of months ago about the delay. The sky was falling. It seems that now everyone is freaked out, whether they realize it or not, because the game wasn't delayed again to make further improvements. We are, as a community, schizophrenic.

And as far as returning the game for a refund, if you know a store that lets you return software after it's been opened, please let me know; I would like to shop there.

[Manji]

So I thought I would give the Full Version a go, I had prepaid for it after all:

Maybe I misread that line but I suppose you could read it a number of ways. In any case you can ignore my comment regarding not having a legit key if that is in fact the case. Regardless you did say you haven't played the game through, nor have you played MP thoroughly either. Not that it bothers me to be honest, you've posted obscenity and abuse in this thread which really says a lot for maturity and integrity dude... way to go.

[Freshmixture]

The games been out a week mates....give it time. When the initial FIRST patch comes out, then we'll see.....

One thing I have noticed so far is: FOV in MP= ........no good

I hope everyone hasn't got the "too much info before the release" syndrome.....as I call it. Also known as "Online media burnout". It happened to me when I was looking up everything and anything before the movie: Star Wars II: Attack of the Clones came out. It ruined the movie for me....I hated it......

Keep it in mind.........

Cheers!

Fresh

[Nailbomb72]

And as far as returning the game for a refund, if you know a store that lets you return software after it's been opened, please let me know; I would like to shop there.

Here in Australia, EB Games give a full refund, no questions asked if you return a game that you aren't happy with. Tried it once at K-Mart and they laughed at me and sent me on my way.

[Ben]

I agree with you Lightspeed. SP might be awesome for many people, but the MP is just disappointing. It would've been better if the game was delayed another 6 weeks atleast - but that's not up to GRIN i believe.

Ah well, i'll check out the game again when the patch arrives and that will decide for many people [including me] if they're gonna play the game online or not, and this probably also decides if they are going to buy any possible future expansionpacks or not.

I hope this patch will blow us away with new modes/features/guns etc.. everything we ever wished for ..

[sui317]

quote

Logos: We are, as a community, schizophrenic.

i do think you are right

[viiiper]

All valid points: but It has to be said ,the game engine is very good , the map/graphic detail

also very good, but,

the game has some flaws that should have been resolved with an earlier demo release ...say 4-8 weeks before release...

It's a step step BACKWARDS from GR1 !!! in the mutliplayer gameplay..

NO Last Man Standing......NO Team v Team LMS [ yes they may be added , but they should have been on the original release !!!!! NO QUESTION..

The CS style Buy or NOT to BUy crap !! who's brain wave was that ?? an ex -CS fan ??

The AA graphic issue is/was never an issue !!! it's part of the 'DESIL' Graphics engine implimentation. more of an issue !!! IF your ever lucky enough to go SLI or SLI + PPU [ageia] The frame rate /preformance is no better than a single GPU...... I KNOW cos I do run it both ways and SLI makes very little diffrence. PPU makes it slower !!! dam v1.0 Ageia drivers.

I pray a V1.05 or 1.1 UPDATE FIX comes SOON

p.s. I also want a Desert map and a tropical map

Edited May 9, 2006 by viiiper

[tangovictor]

I played GR for years and years, both extensive MP gaming and intensive modded COOP missions.

IT IS A BIG FAIL.

Its a sad moment after such a long wait. Those looking for the next installment...its not here.

Lightspeed out.

(I HOPE THIS POST WONT BE REMOVED TO PROTECT GRIN FEELINGS - THE TRUTH NEEDS TO BE HEARD)

Echo that here too. I wanted this to be a smash success, but even as a GR and PC fanboy, I gotta say I feel a big let-down. And for some people to say our opinions simply reflect unrealistic expectations, no...not really - when there ARE other games out there that have the engine, graphics, communications, maps, and FPS that would have met these expectations... just they arent all in the same game.

*grabs wrench, duct tape, and hammer to go piece them together*

[Poita]

Well it seems GRIN really had us al fooled. they sounded so confident about GRAWS sublimity.

Sounds like there is so many lame elements to GRAW PC even if it does have a system beefy enough to run it.

Well Lighty is returning his copy and i'm not going to upgrade to play it.

I don't like this argument about 'it's only just been released, wait for it to be fixed'. Jeez it was the same argument about waiting for it to be released before we question any feature lists.'.

How long do we have to wait for what we want? Simple equasion, the game doesn't cut it. I'm not gonna buy it.

[Uk.Cobra]

all ready returned my copy 3 months from now its gonna be 20$ hopefully they get some much needed patchs

[JASGripen]

erixx liks this game super duper roflmfao

- so youre happy with a game that lags with explosions?

- i have a 20" wide screen at 1680x1050 (its still jaggy)

I am happy with no lag with explosions or otherwise, so are others with medium end rigs. Go check screen shots from players or movies for that part. Try doing some tweaking; it might have better effect than moaning, who knows.

- [GR] (multiple sniper, demo, reifleman, support loadouts

GRAW - one support, one sniper, no AT, no demo, 3 other weapons, with or without a handgrip.

You can equip the guys much as you want too. And with [GR] you didn't have much of an arsenal to choose from at start.

- GR without expansion - DOCKS DAY, CASTLE DAY, VILLAGE, TRAINWRECK, MOUNTAIN, FARM DAY, FARM NIGHT, etc, etc etc

GRAW - city, city, city, city.

Yes that was really, really a subjective and destructive post. You begin with naming the well--known maps from [GR] and then just state "city, city, city, city". Good that this was your absolute final post as you seem to run out of steam ("FARM DAY, FARM NIGHT", wow, that gents, is an argument for variety in [GR]. LOL!). You could say with [GR] some rural, some more rural and some city maps. Crappy designed too both game wise and gfx if you compare. GRAW on the other hand have Inner City, Desert, Park and Slum. 2-4 to GRAW in other words. That would be a response much in line with your arguing.

I don't go there, it is not my bag. I loved [GR], but it is an obsolete game. The deal is of with [GR], I got GRAW. During May I will play some MP and Co-op to learn the game. After June? Then it is ladder time. See ya.

[ruggbutt]

Gripen, you're pretty much a fanboi. You refuse to see that this game has serious issues. Your "I am happy with no lag" comment shows that as long as it doesn't affect you it doesn't matter. That's whats wrong with this "new" GR community. In the old days people banded together to make needed changes to GR. I know alot of squads that didn't play coop but they stood behind the coop guys every step of the way cuz that's how the community was.

It isn't that way anymore. Too many kiddies who are looking for instant gratification. The"as long as it affects someone else it's ok" attitude is BS.

[REC0N]

I pretty much agree whit you lightspeed.

The Urban missions are quite fun at times but they are pretty linear there is mostly only two or three ways to go.

The non urban map strongpoint is the worst map I have ever seen, you really get the feeling that you are playing a consol game.

When you are done whit the SP missions the game as it is now, isnt worth a penny, beause the MP part is a complete disaster.

Edited May 9, 2006 by REC0N

[CBA_Bludawg]

who ever buys a game for sp only is missing alot and has no right to really even post here.

We all all love mp fps. and we have been waiting for a real kick as s fps to come out. i myself and most players i talk to want a game to be as real as it can get. examples.

being wounded, needing a medic, losing stamina,needing support (ammo/gear replaced) bullet drops (calculating for distance) movement of players. (best game ive seen so far with thit is Americas Army) and alot more i can add.

graw just doesnt have any of this. follow a player from behind and watch him run around corners looks like hes doing a sideways moonwalk, no wounding at all, you can run all the way across with out any loss of stamina. the only thing good about this game is the eye candy and sound. the distance of site down a street sucks the cans appear like only 30 yards in front of ya and while you are moving they come into view (draw distance).

the game as been opend up by some people already and looked at, and compaired to farcry GRAW is behind not ahead of the games. Some have laughed at how it was built. you know why hacks are being made so easy? they didnt protect any files for one. and if PB comes to graw i would love to see who can run this game with PB on. omg can you say lagged out. PB has messed up alot of games right now with the ss update. (there is a new update coming to fix this total rebuild of the ss code)

i wish someone will make a game as real as it can get, im done with arcade style and GRAW for one isnt it. its back in the box till a patch and then ill see what its like. Knowing UBI's history i say GRAW is dead before it even released. Should have just put old GR on this engine and not touched a thing and we would all be in heaven.

Back to Americas Army best game out right now i think and its free,

Hurry up Armed Assault!!!!!!!

nice to see you lighty, been a long time man.

[Druac_Blaise]

When you are done whit the SP missions the game as it is now, isnt worth a penny, beause the MP part is a complete disaster.

I wouldn't call it a 'Complete Disaster', I leave that distinction to something like Lockdown. Example, I can actually find servers to play on, if I could only stay connected. Even the MP has great potential, including Domination, with some tweaks. The problem is that MP over all got the Redheaded-Stepchild treatment from GRIN as I am almost certain they ran out of time. If they can complete MP with addons and bug fixes, it is far from a complete disaster, IMHO.

[REC0N]

When you are done whit the SP missions the game as it is now, isnt worth a penny, beause the MP part is a complete disaster.

I wouldn't call it a 'Complete Disaster', I leave that distinction to something like Lockdown. Example, I can actually find servers to play on, if I could only stay connected. Even the MP has great potential, including Domination, with some tweaks. The problem is that MP over all got the Redheaded-Stepchild treatment from GRIN as I am almost certain they ran out of time. If they can complete MP with addons and bug fixes, it is far from a complete disaster, IMHO.

Maybe not Domination mode but Co-op mode is.

[Ghost9]

Where do you people live that you can return computer games/software? I've never been to a store where they will accept opened software.

[REC0N]

Where do you people live that you can return computer games/software? I've never been to a store where they will accept opened software.

**OFF TOPIC** As far as I know, EBgames is the only company that has this awesome service.