GRAW 2: PC Developer Q&A

[Dai-San]

Wolfsong, in almost every thread that mentions Co-op you come up with the same old line, that it CAN be done but it seems strange to me that NO-ONE, and that includes the developers themselves have ever done it.

You constantly state that Co-op mission type games already exist with multiple objectives, yet again, I don't actually think you understand what we, the GR Co-op players mean by Co-op. Try playing a few games on the AS, TE, 9MS servers and THEN you will realise that GRAW doesn't do what we are after as far as Co-op goes.

This isn't meant as a flame at you, I respect ALL the work and help you have offered since the release of GRAW, but I just can't understand why you keep up this rhetoric of YES IT CAN, and IT ALREADY IS, when obviously (to us GR Co-op players) it can't, and isn't.

[Buehgler_AS]

@Colin dead on as usual.

@Wolfsong, I am sorry, but yet again you are making arguments about what is technically possible and not while not providing anything even resembling a rational argument. The graphic complexity is NOT correlated to the ability of a developer to provide a fully functional scripting tool for missions (such as IGOR). Similarly graphic complexity really does not have anything to do with limiting the number of friendlies that can participate in a coop mission.

As I see it, the reality is that the developer would need to invest some resources to improve their graphic engine to make this true, but rather than put resources there the publisher is probably telling them to make it simpler and prettier. So all the resources go to linear missions with stunning eye candy that are unable to hold anyones attention for more than a few weeks/months.

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

Today it would probobly be a 1.8 or 2.0 GHz Core 2 Duo with 1-2 Gb RAM and a GeForce 7600GS.

Are you in America? Cos In the UK a top spec PC costs an arm and a leg. And as for installing GRAW on a PC at work.... we'd get the diciplined if we installed tetris or something tiny. How are you going to hide a 3GB game?

I did a quick check at DELL, and we all know that you can get away much cheaper from other stores or if you build it yourself. Also, DELL have costs for service periods and such that you can't get away from... But I set my limit at around 10000SEK (about 730 GBP or 1400USD), which is not much for a decent pre-built gaming PC without monitor around here at least. Also not that Sweden has a quite high tax level for electronics... so you'd probably get more in other parts of Europe.

Example within the set price.

PROCESSOR: Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E6400-processor (2,13 GHz, 1 066 MHz, 2 MB)

OS: Windows® XP Home Edition, SP2

SERVICE: Full service for 1 year

MONITOR: None

RAM: 2 048MB 667 MHz [2 x 1 024] DDR2 dual channel

HD: 640 GB seriell ATA RAID 0[2 x 320 GB 7 200 rpm with DataBurstâ„¢-cache]

OPTIC UNIT: 16 x DVD +/- RW-enhet

GRAPHICS: 256 MB nVidia® GeForce® 7900GS

SOUND: Onboard Dolby Digital 7.1

SPEAKERS: None

KEYBOARD: Dellâ„¢ Quietkey USB-keyboard

MOUSE: Dell USB-mouse

FLOPPY/MEDIAUNIT: 13-in-1-media card reader

If you buy it in parts you'd get away with a much lower price, maybe 4/5 of the above. And the RAID discs and some other stuff isn't needed either, which lowers the price further.

As for installing games at work, it's no problem as long as you don't play them during work hours. With the smallest sized HD you can buy these days being quite big there is no problem with space on the local one.

[Buehgler_AS]

Wolfsong, in almost every thread that mentions Co-op you come up with the same old line, that it CAN be done but it seems strange to me that NO-ONE, and that includes the developers themselves have ever done it.

Dai, this is because of some fundamental limits in the scripting language (and thus I presume corresponding limits in the underlying game engine) that make it impossible to construct the types of missions you, Colin, Creatch, and I are talking about. I spent my time trying to "get around" these limitations, and (in my opinion) it really just is not possible to do in a convincing way.

You constantly state that Co-op mission type games already exist with multiple objectives, yet again, I don't actually think you understand what we, the GR Co-op players mean by Co-op. Try playing a few games on the AS, TE, 9MS servers and THEN you will realise that GRAW doesn't do what we are after as far as Co-op goes.

I too grow frustrated by this behavior. I asked him to spend a few hours playing some old tourney missions, and the reply was essentially "I already know all of that" -- Well Wolfsong, there are many people here who are trying to explain to you that you are incorrect and that you should take a bit of time to learn what we are talking about before you tell us what is and is not technically possible.

This isn't meant as a flame at you, I respect ALL the work and help you have offered since the release of GRAW, but I just can't understand why you keep up this rhetoric of YES IT CAN, and IT ALREADY IS, when obviously (to us GR Co-op players) it can't, and isn't.

Ditto that!

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

@Wolfsong, I am sorry, but yet again you are making arguments about what is technically possible and not while not providing anything even resembling a rational argument. The graphic complexity is NOT correlated to the ability of a developer to provide a fully functional scripting tool for missions (such as IGOR). Similarly graphic complexity really does not have anything to do with limiting the number of friendlies that can participate in a coop mission.

I didn't say anything about the editor being limited. You have to start reading the current posts on the current subject before responding. Th editor we talked about a few days ago, and that had nothing to do with the number of players.

As for the number of friendlies, yes it does. I as well as GRiN developers have listed the reasons why that is in the forum before.

Edited February 17, 2007 by Wolfsong

[jsonedecker]

There are generally 2 schools of thought on if modding gets you more sales.

1. Make a good game with robust modding/scripting tools and release it to the public in a timely fashion. If the game is good to begin with and gets a good modding community going, it will help carry the game's sales, therefore making the company money. Not to mention goodwill from the community.

2. Build a game, either release no modding tools or mediocre ones to appease the community, then pump out sequels every year. Company makes money, but risks loosing good community support.

These days, it seems like companies would rather you buy thier next bigger and better sequel than try to cultivate a thriving community. Personally, I liked it when you saw a sequel every 1.5 to 2 years and got a decent mission pack somewhere in the middle.

BTW: Nothing is fundamentally "easy" for a developer to do in game development. Case in point; On the original R6, on one of the first Gold Master candidates, a level artist made a seemingly harmless 5 second change in a level that rendered a switch inoperable in the final map of the game, the Biodome. This was the switch that opened the final door. Needless to say, because of that "easy" change, the game was unwinable and triggered an entire new test cycle.

-John

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

Wolfsong, in almost every thread that mentions Co-op you come up with the same old line, that it CAN be done but it seems strange to me that NO-ONE, and that includes the developers themselves have ever done it.

You constantly state that Co-op mission type games already exist with multiple objectives, yet again, I don't actually think you understand what we, the GR Co-op players mean by Co-op. Try playing a few games on the AS, TE, 9MS servers and THEN you will realise that GRAW doesn't do what we are after as far as Co-op goes.

This isn't meant as a flame at you, I respect ALL the work and help you have offered since the release of GRAW, but I just can't understand why you keep up this rhetoric of YES IT CAN, and IT ALREADY IS, when obviously (to us GR Co-op players) it can't, and isn't.

I only keep writing what is actually true because everyone else is continuing stating their opinions based on hollow reasons. Many in these forums have a very clouded view in my opinion, and want things to be easy. Sure it's nice if it's easy, but even if it's hard that doesn't mean it can't be done. Right? And Coop missions can be done, there is no question about it. The following two things that people are hang up on as reasons to there being no possibility for Coop in GRAW are just no arguments for the kind of posts they write, and if they don't come up I won't argue against it.

Argument 1: All the same scripting options aren't available. This doesn't mean Coop can't be done. But people use that as a reason why there is no Coop. All needed scripting options to make missions are there, how else did they make the original game. Just because some people don't have their personal favorite script command, they say that enjoyable Coop can't be done at all. Which isn't true. Scripters have to adapt to what's there.

Argument 2: No 9-player Coop. But come on... I think people have to stop being hang up on 9 players... that isn't the definition of Coop. 4 player Coop, of 6 player Coop or whatever is still Coop and still the same type of gameplay but maybe at a smaller level.

I only play SP and Coop myself. I'm mostly a Coop player, but not online. LAN only.

Edited February 17, 2007 by Wolfsong

[NoQuarter]

If indeed a new angle on coop was in this version it would have been well advertised with the other parts that have made into this new game.

Zero comment on coop play can only mean one thing again it has been left out.

Not to snipe from the weeds but wouldn't these apply to this as well...

Im not sure if you have noticed but the press side of this game is much tighter than GRAW1, before input from the devs most of the way through, this will not happen this time round.

The game questions we have will be cleared up at release, with tit bits on the way, thats how it is.

One could hope that they are holding some features close to the vest, for the Shock and Awe factor on delivery. I know I am.

Hurry up and wait.

[Cangaroo.TNT]

@Wolfsong, I am sorry, but yet again you are making arguments about what is technically possible and not while not providing anything even resembling a rational argument.

Wow! 99% of the posts in these forums are crap, including mine. Wolfsong's posts are consistently on-topic, intelligible, logical, and full of context and content. Since Rabbi74 hasn't posted much lately, Wolfsong has been a great substitute.

Furthermore, if he is correct that something can be done, it does not mean he has to be the one to do it.

[Colin]

I have just got my ass kicked in a mission for nine men on Alpha Squads server.

Seven of us went in and had a great time a short time but great none the less.

I cannot do this in GRAW, and it cannot be done in GRAW {WS} if you disagree post a mission next week for 6 men or nine whatever and I will get guys to play it.

The point is leaving Coop out of a game that replaces a game that has been played for years in coop mode by many players, is like driving every where in reverse gear.

This coop mode you say is old hat and should be forgotten is why web sites like this came into being.

And why we are actually having this post feed back.

I know this has got nout to do with Grin its the direction Ubisoft have headed.

Let me ask you this.

I want to set up a dedicated GRAW server to play coop missions, pay money out, sort out sads etc. IE LIKE GR1.

It would be a waste of money four players at a time to play missions.

So we have to revert to game types like TVT etc oh and [GR] coop which yes more players can play agreed, but I soon get bored just reaching the extraction just killing on the way. Loads of fun.

That would be great setting up turneys just to reach the extraction zone dont ya think.

So I sorry to say but you aint got no idea what coop team play is all about, and how it has helped created this web site and others like it.

And dont insult my type of game play as if it isnt important to me.

Any FPS game is supposed to be enjoyed by a large group of people, and should be made with this in mind.

A 4 man squad is not reaching a big enough audiance.

[Tinker]

Wolfsong, in almost every thread that mentions Co-op you come up with the same old line, that it CAN be done but it seems strange to me that NO-ONE, and that includes the developers themselves have ever done it.

You constantly state that Co-op mission type games already exist with multiple objectives, yet again, I don't actually think you understand what we, the GR Co-op players mean by Co-op. Try playing a few games on the AS, TE, 9MS servers and THEN you will realise that GRAW doesn't do what we are after as far as Co-op goes.

This isn't meant as a flame at you, I respect ALL the work and help you have offered since the release of GRAW, but I just can't understand why you keep up this rhetoric of YES IT CAN, and IT ALREADY IS, when obviously (to us GR Co-op players) it can't, and isn't.

I hold a lot of respect for Wolfsong and EricJ for answering many PM`s when i tried making a mission.

You know me!

It is not FUN or EASY.

It`s still here, Mission 05 i was playing with. 40% done, but never touched it for months now. Phew, that was maybe 2 weeks work alone.

However, with a few more variables thrown in, and a few more +4 Co-Op style maps...We have 12 in [GR] Mode, why can`t we go from there?

Tinker

[Nutlink]

I have just got my ass kicked in a mission for nine men on Alpha Squads server.

Seven of us went in and had a great time a short time but great none the less.

I cannot do this in GRAW, and it cannot be done in GRAW {WS} if you disagree post a mission next week for 6 men or nine whatever and I will get guys to play it.

The ability to add objectives in [GR] coop was supposed to be in the 1.35 patch, but due to a bug it does not work. It IS possible to have objectives, and even make them random or dependent on circumstances. The only thing I've seen Bueghler say before that isn't possible (as far as I'm aware) is changing an enemy from passive to aggressive. Other than that, multiple objectives (taking out buildings with C4, or vehicles, or individuals, reaching locations, etc) were supposed to be available. Unfortunately I doubt another patch is going to fix this due to the focus on GRAW 2.

The point is leaving Coop out of a game that replaces a game that has been played for years in coop mode by many players, is like driving every where in reverse gear.

This coop mode you say is old hat and should be forgotten is why web sites like this came into being.

That I do agree with. GRAW was poor on the coop side at first, and it had a good chance at being otherwise but due to a damn bug we were denied objectives with a 12 man squad.

I want to set up a dedicated GRAW server to play coop missions, pay money out, sort out sads etc. IE LIKE GR1.

It would be a waste of money four players at a time to play missions.

So we have to revert to game types like TVT etc oh and [GR] coop which yes more players can play agreed, but I soon get bored just reaching the extraction just killing on the way. Loads of fun.

Hence why objectives were supposed to be possible, but again....the damn bug.....

A 4 man squad is not reaching a big enough audiance.

I'm thinking back to the original Doom at this moment....

Not to pick on you, but they did TRY to add this, but unfortunately it wasn't tested enough before release. I'm guessing it will be available in GRAW 2, but maybe not quite to everyones expectations. Either way, they have shown they can take a step in the right direction.

Edited February 18, 2007 by Nutlink

[Pulaski]

Zero comment on coop play can only mean one thing again it has been left out.

Any one not sure about coop.............Tornamnets/Alpha Squad/+SD This link will show you how many people play coop online.

http://alpha.websmart.ro/forums/index.php?...amp;topic=150.0

It lists a lot but not all coop teams around the world.

Please remember this is 9 man coop not 4.

I really hope co-op community gets everything they want out of GRAW2, but GRIN/UBI should keep in mind the co-op community never came close to the size of the MP aka TvT community. I not wanting to start any type of flame war with the co-op guys, but a picture is worth a thousand words;

I’m really not sure if GRIN knows about the full GR community, the competition side of GhostRecon. I came across a page on web.archive:

Full Screen Shot Here

Now keep in mind that’s just from one ladder, I know IGS at the time was pushing 100 or more matches a day also. Not really sure about any other ladders, but this should give you a good idea about how popular GR was with the matching community and the size of the community.

[Buehgler_AS]

The ability to add objectives in [GR] coop was supposed to be in the 1.35 patch, but do to a bug it does not work. It IS possible to have objectives, and even make them random or dependent on circumstances. The only thing I've seen Bueghler say before that isn't possible as far (as I'm aware) is changing an enemy from passive to aggressive. Other than that, multiple objectives (taking out buildings with C4, or vehicles, or individuals, reaching locations, etc) were supposed to be available. Unfortunately I doubt another patch is going to fix this due to the focus on GRAW 2.

That is correct, there is no way to change (or control) what tangos due from a script. So as it currently stands there is no ability to construct a mission where you sneak past a passive group, blow something up, and have that previously passive group come to see what happened. This is a specific example, but the lack of this basic feature (what were termed trigger plans in Igor) makes constructing missions that have meaningful multiple paths through them nearly impossible.

I have also poined out that the scripting language for GRAW is missing some fundamentally features that make tourney scripting possible (e.g. variables and internal state).

That I do agree with. GRAW was poor on the coop side at first, and it had a good chance at being otherwise but due to a damn bug we were denied objectives with a 12 man squad.

And since it has not gotten fixed, we should not act like GRAW has this ability, it does NOT have the ability to allow [GR] play with "real" objectives." I will second Nutlink'soffer the conjecture that this bug has probably been fixed for GRAW2, but I will also guess that simply adding this feature is not going to rekindle much/any interest from coop players.

I really hope co-op community gets everything they want out of GRAW2, but GRIN/UBI should keep in mind the co-op community never came close to the size of the MP aka TvT community. I not wanting to start any type of flame war with the co-op guys, but a picture is worth a thousand words;

I do not think anyone is arguing coop vs TvT here, I think we are mostly concerned that this whole Q&A boiled down to more discussion of eye candy and gadgets. There is (yet again) no information about anything fundamental being changed or improved. My hope would be to see scripting tools comparable to what we had in GR, where it was possible to not only build new missions, but also to build new game types. As I recall, in GRs heyday, SAR (a user developed game type) was one of the more popular game types for TvT play.

[JASGripen]

I just want to fill in on this thread, which has turned out to be a co-op thread recently, that MP/TvT got about the same level of info as the co-op out of the interview.

A new game mode is the prime novelty for MP, which no one has asked for so far. Perhaps it will be the new hype at the serves but Siege wasn't.

Actually I think the MP community asks for so little, actually, it asks for nothing new. Just easy downloads of new maps and other modes (weapon mods for example can't be done in GRAW in an easy way for example); easy to create new maps; a user friendly interface for the servers; and a decent Anti Cheat.

That is it, as SADS is already included in GRAW2 (I do really hope). High specs and a good anti copy (when it comes to stop pirate's MP-gaming) is actually good things, but they make the MP-community smaller. More effort must thereby be but into other parts of the game to make it a popular MP-game.

[sui317]

sorry to budge in but i asked for the new mp mode

read the graw forum topic called "i'm so sorry there is too much shooting" or something like that (http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=40752)

i nearly explained the whole context of the game and it got some positive replies

so maybe they listend to that post i don't know for sure but i do know

some want something like that because it changes TvT/MP gaming from mindless running to siege or just nade spamming through ten minutes of TDM

(i do not want to upset TVT players who do not nade spam or servers which are fun to play and where some kind of tactic is found in regular games online)

so if we asked for it,

yes we kinda did,

[JASGripen]

Ahh you jinxed the whole monthy, AC, SADS, DL and stuff by that. OMG!

Sure ""we asked for it". But I rather see just the basic things fixed first, the icing on the cake should be added after that.

Having a GRAW2 which is easy to ladder is my only demand.

[sui317]

OOOOPS..... *hides in shame*

[REDMONSTER]

Zero comment on coop play can only mean one thing again it has been left out.

Any one not sure about coop.............Tornamnets/Alpha Squad/+SD This link will show you how many people play coop online.

http://alpha.websmart.ro/forums/index.php?...amp;topic=150.0

It lists a lot but not all coop teams around the world.

Please remember this is 9 man coop not 4.

Now keep in mind that’s just from one ladder, I know IGS at the time was pushing 100 or more matches a day also. Not really sure about any other ladders, but this should give you a good idea about how popular GR was with the matching community and the size of the community.

wben i was active on igs my clan (and its 2 or 3 allies) would usually have anywhere between 20 and 30 matches a day. and then times that by around 100 teams that is what i came from. sure hope it comes back soo /me misses matching

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

The ability to add objectives in [GR] coop was supposed to be in the 1.35 patch, but due to a bug it does not work. It IS possible to have objectives, and even make them random or dependent on circumstances. The only thing I've seen Bueghler say before that isn't possible (as far as I'm aware) is changing an enemy from passive to aggressive. Other than that, multiple objectives (taking out buildings with C4, or vehicles, or individuals, reaching locations, etc) were supposed to be available. Unfortunately I doubt another patch is going to fix this due to the focus on GRAW 2.

It should work in GRAW. The flaw was that it doesn't work on dedicated servers from what I saw in the map modding forum. The person that wrote about it (sorry, don't remember who it was) got it working if he hosted it. So it's "half" broken.

I have also poined out that the scripting language for GRAW is missing some fundamentally features that make tourney scripting possible (e.g. variables and internal state).

Int (and boolean) variables are available since patch 1.35.

It was included at the same time as the [GR] objective elements, random event call and random group activation.

What kind of internal state check are you looking for?

And since it has not gotten fixed, we should not act like GRAW has this ability, it does NOT have the ability to allow [GR] play with "real" objectives."

Like I wrote above, [GR] objectives should work if you don't use a dedicated server. That will probably be fixed in GRAW2.

Override type of Coop missions work on dedicated.

When you say "real objectives", what more then that are you looking for?

EDIT: Tell me exactly what type of objectives and internal state checks you're looking for and how you want them to work...

Edited February 18, 2007 by Wolfsong

[Buehgler_AS]

Int (and boolean) variables are available since patch 1.35.

It was included at the same time as the [GR] objective elements, random event call and random group activation.

What kind of internal state check are you looking for?

That is all that is needed, I do not seem to have any documentation describing how you would do this in what I got with my 1.35 patch, nor can I find an example of it in any of the maps I have... Granted I have not bothered to download any new maps in the last 6 weeks or so.

Ahh, I see you have documentation for a variable system in one of your documentation posts. Although a bit clunky, that is probably quite sufficient. (BTW, today is the first time I have seen that feature)

Like I wrote above, [GR] objectives should work if you don't use a dedicated server. That will probably be fixed in GRAW2.

Override type of Coop missions work on dedicated.

When you say "real objectives", what more then that are you looking for?

If it does not work on a dedicated server, it really is not very useful to the community at large.

If you still do not understand what I mean by "real objectives" please go play a few GR tourney missions from the past 3 or so years.

[Creatch]

Just a few things we have in Alpha Squad missions now.

Rescues. Can't be done in GR:AW

True multipul objectives. ie not just placing C4 in a bunch of differant locations but a rescue, followed by intell gathering and maybe a demo or other objective.

The ability to change tango responces depending on the circumstance. ie have a 4 man squad patrol a certain area in a bored state untill something happens to say send them into another area with a differant ROE and combat state.

Not possable in GR:AW.

The ability to change objectives depending on what happens during mission play. ie stealth is maintained then this objective is avail, but break stealth and that objective is no longer a valid target and another becomes avail.

Not possable in GR:AW.

Gathering intell or other objective from a fallen team member. Say your team mate has collected intell that is to be extracted to complete that said objective. He is killed on the way to extract. The intell is the retrieved from his body by another team member and extracted. Not possable in GR:AW.

Simple firefights and defend or seige modes are not true Co-op. Not saying they are not a ton of fun but they are in no way true Co-op missions.

By one of your posts it appears to me you have never really tried any REAL Co-op missions with a group of 9 or more but just single player or LAN. And I'm not slamming or flameing you in anyway what so ever, just trying to get a valid point across that GR:AW or GR:AW2 has no real Co-op content. Or even the chance of making any.

I have been scripting missions for tourney play for a few years and have come up with a few new things no one has ever done before. None of these things are even possable in GR:AW or by the looks of it GR:AW2. Not even some of the simplest thing we can do with [GR].

Graphics and sounds and eye candy are nice but grow old quickly. There is no meat on this bone, just alot of BBQ sauce.

Just my opinion and nothing more.

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

Ahh, I see you have documentation for a variable system in one of your documentation posts. Although a bit clunky, that is probably quite sufficient. (BTW, today is the first time I have seen that feature)

The download version of the document is much cleaner. The forum posts are the initial drafts.

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

Rescues. Can't be done in GR:AW

True multipul objectives. ie not just placing C4 in a bunch of differant locations but a rescue, followed by intell gathering and maybe a demo or other objective.

In what way can't that be done? That would just be objective after objective, or using the variables parallel ones.

The ability to change tango responces depending on the circumstance. ie have a 4 man squad patrol a certain area in a bored state untill something happens to say send them into another area with a differant ROE and combat state.

True, this can't be done as there is no real ROE in GRAW. Even though enemies have two different aggression modes they can't be scripted between. I know this is a problem for some mission types, not an objective problem, but I know what you're talking about. The reason this can't be done is that if you open an world XML you'll notice "plans" aka orders in GRAW are built as a sub element to the group and isn't a separate base element. I've had some ideas on how this may be possible to solve without GRiN having to change the way the engine interprets the XML... I'll pass it on to them and we'll see what may happen in GRAW2, unless it's already fixed that is.

The ability to change objectives depending on what happens during mission play. ie stealth is maintained then this objective is avail, but break stealth and that objective is no longer a valid target and another becomes avail.

Changing objectives based on outcome of other things isn't a problem in GRAW. But again, there is no true ROE in GRAW so there is no thing called stealth that can be detected. So the objective based part can be done but not with that specific trigger.

Gathering intell or other objective from a fallen team member. Say your team mate has collected intell that is to be extracted to complete that said objective. He is killed on the way to extract. The intell is the retrieved from his body by another team member and extracted.

So... you want to store which specific person is currently holding a variable? Or rather have a variable with the number of the team member that is currently in possession of an "object", which can be updated only if that character dies, and have that variable act inside an area condition for which member has to be there to complete the objective. Am I on the correct track here?

By one of your posts it appears to me you have never really tried any REAL Co-op missions with a group of 9 or more but just single player or LAN.

I'd say you haven't played real Coop unless you do it in LAN form. Everyone know each other much better then you can by communicating over the internet because you hang out everyday. No problems with timezones, communication, ping and all that you don't want to bother with. I'd say LAN is more Coop the online play. There is simply no "but just" when it comes to playing Coop on LAN. You eat, sleep and hopefully don't die together, so to speak.

I have been scripting missions for tourney play for a few years and have come up with a few new things no one has ever done before. None of these things are even possable in GR:AW or by the looks of it GR:AW2. Not even some of the simplest thing we can do with [GR].

I know the frustration. I pull the GR1 mission modding train from a stand still on day 1 of it's release. Got a bit tired of being one of the few that actually understood how scripting in IGOR worked and spent 10-12 hours a day in the forums writing tutorials and trying to get people to understand how the pull-down menu scripting system worked. Because the info we got with GR1 was even worse then what GRiN gave of with GRAW when the editor was patched in. And now people have been complaining that they don't have it... funny thing.

Most of the MP script stuff didn't get into GR1 until IT either. So that would be over 1½ year after GR1 was released.

I'm just saying that GRAW2 will be an improvement on the scripting side. We know there is now ROE in GRAW2, which also leads to there needing to be some sort of scripts connected to it. Exactly what we don't know yet.

EDIT: I think I'm gonna uninstall the spell correction tool I have in Firefox... It does more damage then good... I have to edit everything again. CRAP!

Edited February 18, 2007 by Wolfsong

[Peace]

I just want to fill in on this thread, which has turned out to be a co-op thread recently, that MP/TvT got about the same level of info as the co-op out of the interview.

I totally agree, the preview and Q & A has revealed nothing of substantial interest to the laddering T vs T community.

The new Assault-Recon gamemode is not going to be matchable as far as I understand it, thus clans will probably not pay particular attention to it.

The only few positive things I find is:

1) the netcode seems to be worked at (but it is unclear of the specific improvements).

2) possibly some more varied maps (environment, weather, time of the day), but that is just possibly

I doubt at this stage that UBI/GRIN target the laddering clans . GRAW killed the laddering GR community by the miserable state GRAW was released in. And, when 1.35 finally came nobody cared to return. Also, still with 1.35 and SADS tools, important features to make it a complete laddering success are lacking. All of which GR had.

A few examples:

- Replays

- A wound model and injuries that matter

- All maps available for all gamemodes

- Multiple insertion zones with random or set insertion option

- True observer mode (not just deathcam)

- "Next map random" option

Doesn't the UBI directors realize that online clan laddering in general is growing tremendously and there is a spot for PC to fill after GR1?

Nowdays it is all too focused on eyecandy, shaders, and textures. The core gameplay features, fun factor and vital functionality come 2nd place. The COOP community has their struggles but the laddering clan (T vs T) sure still has theirs...

I hope for a more unbiased preview and Q & A session by a reporter that actually knows gaming.