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GRAW 2: PC Developer Q&A


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Maybe now (if not to late) we should make some lists of what would make GRAW 2 a laddering game + a Co-op tourn possible game.

I didn't play the co-op tourns so i will leave that up to someone more experienced... but here is what laddering needs.

1) Random Spawns/ insertions with at least 4 per map

2) No weapon releated bugs (like the GL crashing the player)

3) No Map related bugs giving one side an advantage over another (com station stairs bug)

4) Easy Server controls. Console like on the server but internally clicky buttuns so even the simplest of clan leaders can easily get it started.

5) Anticheat that does not kick for unknown reasons

6) No disconnects in map changes in case you are subbing, your guys can join and leave while map changes

7) Grids. Co-op had them, why can't MP have a big tactical map with grids?

8) Ability to kill each other in a firefight by shooting. There is no stalemate currently by shooting in GRAW1

9) Punishment for getting hit. We want people to fear getting shot, not run and gun. (yeah kicking an old dead horse here)

10) and one small kit restriction. Change full auto's into single shots... for special ladders. (just something i thought would be fun)

11) Reticule. Point to see enemy name. No more floating names and triangles obscuring your view. With 20 on a server it's annoying.

Now someone shoot out a co-op list.

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One thing I want to see is accuracy changes. At the moment I can stand bolt upright with the .50 M99 and get a headshot at a few hundred metres without any accuracy drop. This is silly as in RL the kick from such a weapon been fired would point the barrel at the sky! Good job with recoil for the rest they are pretty accurate in my book but this needs to be sorted.

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Can someone clarify something for me? Is not playing a game on a LAN similiar to playing on the internet? Could have fooled me that mulitple players joining a server somewhere (can be in the same building or room or from halfway around the world) are playing MP games. Funny now that after 5+ years only true Coop is played via LAN. Same could be said about TvT. It isn't true TvT if not played on a LAN.

I find such arguments or statements as ludicrous. Much as I find the statement that just TvT is the only MP game. If mulitple players join a server, whether LAN or internet, for TvT or Coop, they are playing a multiplayer game.

For those who think TvT games are growing, for as long as I have been gaming online, TvT has always had a big presence, whether in laddering competitions or player hosted games. It has always had a large following. It is the Coop sector that has seen tremendous growth, especially after GR was released, especially Coop tournaments. I have seen more requests for a good Coop game than for TvT over the last couple of years and not just here at GR.net.

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I guess I am a little confused.

Whenever I "log-in" on GRAW, I very rarely see many players in GRAW Co-OP. (In [GR], yes a lot, but not Co-Op.)

Besides, [GR] Co-Op is just "tango hunt"....................... :blink:

Are they only via LAN? Does no one play Co-Op on the net? I mean playing the "missions" with objectives.

Is it because there are only 4 slots available that very few play?

There has been much talk about Co-Op for GRAW2, but I donot see any increase in the number of players .....just left at 4.

I dearly love and enjoy Co-Op. GR was my first real attempts at it, and I have been hooked ever since.

If I am wrong, please help me.

Kingkat................................ :thumbsup:

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What I was getting at is Coop and TvT are both MP games and both can be played on a LAN or on the internet. It does not matter the number of players who join the server (dedicated or not) for MP games though a single person will have to wait a bit for another gamer to join for TvT games. If the single gamer is lucky, he can play Coop by himself until others join.

I do not buy into the statement that only Coop games can be played on a LAN and I don't buy into the argument that true MP games are just TvT.

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I agree...............SP....................ONE HUMAN player. With or without any AI Teamates.

MP.............TWO (or more) HUMAN players in a game. Whether you are playing a "mission based" co-op game, hunt tangos, T v T, domination, HH, etc.

I think the "connection" is just how you find the players, via LAN or Internet. Do you mean LAN is where "I host " a game on my PC?

And again the only time I see any Co-Op players is when I put up a game on the interent via my PC. I mean mission based game.

Kingkat...................... :thumbsup:

...........besides............GRAW2 looks like it might just offer a few more options to play some real Co-Op soon.

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All of a sudden this thread evolved into a discussion of terminology.

MP = multiplayer

SP = singleplayer

Coop = a form of MP involving enemy AI, not human opponents, can be via LAN (local area network) or Internet

T vs T = a form of MP involving human opponents, not enemy AI, can be via LAN or Internet

The bottom line with respect to GRAW 2 is that I fear the game (like GRAW) is neither targeted for the Coop clans nor T vs T clans.

The [Ghost Recon] had features that made it well suited for clans.

GRAW 2 (like GRAW) seems to be aimed at the SP gamer and the more "casual" MP gamer. This is to me a sad development.

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What I was getting at is Coop and TvT are both MP games and both can be played on a LAN or on the internet. It does not matter the number of players who join the server (dedicated or not) for MP games though a single person will have to wait a bit for another gamer to join for TvT games. If the single gamer is lucky, he can play Coop by himself until others join.

I do not buy into the statement that only Coop games can be played on a LAN and I don't buy into the argument that true MP games are just TvT.

I didn't say true Coop can ONLY be by LAN. But I got it thrown at me that I'd never experienced Coop as I only play LAN and not online... So I explained how much Coop it is at a LAN that can't be experienced online.

I agree that both online and LAN as quite similar in practice, and both support the exact same gameplay and gametypes. To expect otherwise is stupid.

The [Ghost Recon] had features that made it well suited for clans.

I remember the old GR community stayed away from the word "clan" as it was to quakeish. We used team of squad instead to reflect it was a game with a tactical core...

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I think this topic needs kinda splitting really, its real good and lot of info .

The coop side and the Tvt side as WK said are all part of a single game and should be treated as such.

As far as mission based coop gaming goes.

Player number 8-12

Be able to mod/create/host/ a mission with multipull objectives for a live team against ai.

As with Roco post bugs must be out of the way.

Now this is not the only way, I dont see why it could not be possible to have 2 live teams on one map, one live team has to protect an objective, the other has to complet the objective, one team will obviously have to have a few restrictions.

Just an idea no more.

The coop side of gameing I have noticed over the years is geared towards the older player, this info comes from knowing many teams on I know your age basis.

We like to play slow and methodical, our main goal is complete an objective/dont die/have no respawns/reach extraction/ have a lot of fun in the process.

And no we dont play like that all the time it would get boring else, I play tvt [GR] and I like a lot Domination its a great game type but never really caught on.

I really dont think we are looking for too much do you???

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Now this is not the only way, I dont see why it could not be possible to have 2 live teams on one map, one live team has to protect an objective, the other has to complet the objective, one team will obviously have to have a few restrictions.

Just an idea no more.

Sounds like the new Recon vs. Assault mode to me from what has been reported about it... We'll see how moddable that game mode will be.

Edited by Wolfsong
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I do not buy into the statement that only Coop games can be played on a LAN and I don't buy into the argument that true MP games are just TvT.

Totaly agree, I was thinking MP = Multiple Players, Multiple Playing .. I dont see anything in that description that says a certain "flavour" of gameplay = MP ... its totaly open and should be the case no matter what, it always was and always should be as was [GR] as IS many other games.

I sometimes wonder if demonising COOP is a cheap way to avoid AI & hardware issues (IE: spawning of enemy AI amounts vs online players). TvT = less AI process, just a "thought".

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I didn't say true Coop can ONLY be by LAN. But I got it thrown at me that I'd never experienced Coop as I only play LAN and not online... So I explained how much Coop it is at a LAN that can't be experienced online.

I agree that both online and LAN as quite similar in practice, and both support the exact same gameplay and gametypes. To expect otherwise is stupid.

That was my bad. I should have clairfied what I meant by that. What I should have said is if you have not played Co-op online with a squad of 9 or more playing the same mission, That it's hard to understand what some of us are talking about. Or if you have never been to the Alpha server or say 9MS or +SD and played some of the custom missions we have made with some very interesting objectives and mission outcomes it's hard to explain why we are so let down by GR:AW.

Did'nt mean to throw anything at anyone. Except maybe a fragg at a tango that is.

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I didn't say true Coop can ONLY be by LAN. But I got it thrown at me that I'd never experienced Coop as I only play LAN and not online... So I explained how much Coop it is at a LAN that can't be experienced online.

I agree that both online and LAN as quite similar in practice, and both support the exact same gameplay and gametypes. To expect otherwise is stupid.

That was my bad. I should have clairfied what I meant by that. What I should have said is if you have not played Co-op online with a squad of 9 or more playing the same mission, That it's hard to understand what some of us are talking about. Or if you have never been to the Alpha server or say 9MS or +SD and played some of the custom missions we have made with some very interesting objectives and mission outcomes it's hard to explain why we are so let down by GR:AW.

Did'nt mean to throw anything at anyone. Except maybe a fragg at a tango that is.

No bad feelings from my side.

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9MS Mod, GR1, holds nearly 100 Missions of our own alone. Plus new gtf files.

This is were the real fun is.

Tinker

And that contributes to this thread how? :blink:

It reafirms the missing elements in GRAW and gives an idea of how missions are just within one area.

I would say that thousands of mission based elements have been created for GR1 but none for GRAW.

To fill this large hole would be an achievment for one, prolong the games replayability 2, involve far more people to play it 3.

I would say that one of Red storms and Ubisoft major achievments over the last 7 years is to see there beloved gr1.

Still being played

Still being modded

Still bringing enjoyment to hundreds of fans.

Still being bought from stores.

Still being discussed on forums

And still the best FPS ever created.

I want us to say the same about GRAW in 6 years time, for this to happen Ubisoft need to listen more.

You could say that making a one year wonder is where it is at, a grin dev member said here a long while back "I would be than happy to see my game being played still in six months" I strongly disagree.

A game that comes then goes after a short period is not a game at all.

Any thing that is good, will stand the test of time.

Dont sell your self short.

Edited by Colin
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9MS Mod, GR1, holds nearly 100 Missions of our own alone. Plus new gtf files.

This is were the real fun is.

Tinker

And that contributes to this thread how? :blink:

You know exacally were i am coming from, the biggest issue the Co-Op community have!

Tinker

:thumbsup:

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Yes, yes, I know where you are coming from man, np co-op matters. :)

I just wanted you to be more elaborate as I first took your rather sparse post as a general stab at GRAW2. And as I apparently miss out the "real fun", playing TvT, I also felt confused about how I could feel sooo wrong - thinking that I actually had real fun :P

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9MS Mod, GR1, holds nearly 100 Missions of our own alone. Plus new gtf files.

This is were the real fun is.

Tinker

And that contributes to this thread how? :blink:

It reafirms the missing elements in GRAW and gives an idea of how missions are just within one area.

I would say that thousands of mission based elements have been created for GR1 but none for GRAW.

To fill this large hole would be an achievment for one, prolong the games replayability 2, involve far more people to play it 3.

I would say that one of Red storms and Ubisoft major achievments over the last 7 years is to see there beloved gr1.

Still being played

Still being modded

Still bringing enjoyment to hundreds of fans.

Still being bought from stores.

Still being discussed on forums

And still the best FPS ever created.

I want us to say the same about GRAW in 6 years time, for this to happen Ubisoft need to listen more.

You could say that making a one year wonder is where it is at, a grin dev member said here a long while back "I would be than happy to see my game being played still in six months" I strongly disagree.

A game that comes then goes after a short period is not a game at all.

Any thing that is good, will stand the test of time.

Dont sell your self short.

AMEN,

Best comments I've seen on this for some time.

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