Glass half-empty?

[EricJ]

I know I'm going to regret this, but it has to be said. Papa, you are definitely entitled to your opinion. What I don't get is why you deemed it necessary to establish your credentials as a former soldier in order to make it?

That's pretty much what Papa6 meant. Given the amount of posers it's sometimes safe to let those who don't know, know that somebody has a clue about what they're talking about.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

Already been more or less stated that we're stuck with CPT Mitchell for HERO again. UbiShaft doesn't listen to US, so who DO they listen to?

That's easy... console sales....

LOL note i said option. (like another OGZR mode or non hero mode, or if Grin could slip in a quick xml captain mitchel true or false... we won't tell anyone ... honest.)

[pz3]

GR2

R6:LD

GRAW:PC

all let down the fans pretty bad thats why its half empty.

First I try the demo was poor but some potential in it to have fun.

GRAW for me was one of thoughs games where your clan m8 is like "oh this game rocks!" okay so I buy it to play with some buddies. Even waited untill the 2nd? patch came out before I bought it.

At about 40? 50 hours of game play time It was clear that it diserved to die. Microwaved the DVD and have been done with it since.

graw2 demo will have to simply be awsome to get a dollar from me.

Oh, and Classic Recon my ###. Probly why most of us are not such happy people.

We tried rants we tried nice suggestions we get crap.

Half of us called this website home during the GR days and because some company screws us up the butt we should all have to leave?

Edited November 26, 2006 by Prozac360

[The Blueberry_EBDA]

Well,I guess alot of you guys never played [GR].I can tell you that a M4 will kill on the first shot at 200 yards no problem.The longer the barrel the further you can reach out and touch someone.Body armor,kind of throughs a wrench in it though fellers.I think the game dont reflect it enouph,But.Tacticly its a sound game.If you know anything about real world tactics that is and work as a team it plays well except for the one shot thingy.If your looking through most red dot scopes at 100 yards,most are 4 minute of angle,That dot will take up 4 inches at 100 yards.Bet you didnt know that.At 25 yards it would be an inch.Up close though it shouldnt take a clip to kill anyone eathier.Acording to your FPS that is.Yea the single player leaves alot out,yes.As far as grids go,that has nothing to do with tactics and more to do with location.Whitch would help considerably if your on coms in multyplay.There are a great number of tactics you can use.You just halve to know what tactics are.Choke points for one.You know were there a egress area that only alows that way for troops through.Like just right outside spawn,when everyone thinks there safe and runs like mad.lol.You hear them coming a mile away.They got the boot sound down pat by the way,if you have a good sound card.I agree the weapon balistics suck.But it is a video game.I dont see were it needs patching though.Mine playes great.Even though I have it all turned down and off for the video card.Sound card,Creative x-fi,is cranked all the way.Most of these issues are your sorry a s s computers.most of you dont even know how to clean up your temp folders,defrag,disk check,ect.It plays great.There are a few people in multyplay that I still question there kills.Some guys just are to good.I doubt that,they just learned how to beat the system somehow.They really messed up with the anti cheat thing.Thats a strike against them.giving secruity over to the server side.But.Its all good in my book.Graw 2?well.Lets just say,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Most likly not.This is a good engine.I would look for an expansion pack with maps and weapons though.....I could be wrong though ,,right GRINY..........RIGHT?

And Prozac,your a idgit.You probably need air planes and such.This aint it and never will be,I hope.Theres know excuse to not play it now.Your just a battlefield whore.I might ad I like the 214r2,ah.But,its a diferant game.All you guys who compare this to [GR] suck,because its just like it except for the one shot thingy.And I lways thought that was bogus in [GR].You got ###### Armor for Gods sake.3 shots yea.lol.

Edited November 26, 2006 by The Blueberry

[OliverReed]

Alternatively, it could be a totally a mis-conceived and ill-wrought glass that fails to address many of the liquid containment requirements of its’ users.

Now that’s a better interpretation of the AW/glass analogy

[EricJ]

Uh, at 300m a 4MOA dot would be 4 inches, not at 100 yards, while the newer CompM2/M68 currently used by the US Army is 2 MOA, so at 300m it would be 2 inches. If you actually used the sight you'd know that. A person I know preferred the EOTech, which is a 1 MOA dot circled by a 65 MOA crosshair for close quarters engagement. Do you seriously think the Aimpoint would be used such extensively if it was that shatty? Hell I own one myself and just lurve it

And bear in mind most of us are [GR] vets, so a discourse on tactics isn't necessary when we've been through all that.

And this is a constructive opinion on the game itself, not a way to try and slander people, kay?

Edited November 26, 2006 by EricJ

[pz3]

And Prozac,your a idgit.You probably need air planes and such.This aint it and never will be,I hope.Theres know excuse to not play it now.Your just a battlefield whore.I might ad I like the 214r2,ah.But,its a diferant game.All you guys who compare this to [GR] suck,because its just like it except for the one shot thingy.And I lways thought that was bogus in [GR].You got ###### Armor for Gods sake.3 shots yea.lol.

Did I attack you? Im sorry I may have hurt your feelings sweetie pie.

If you know so much about me go ahead and tell everyone what my opinion of [GR] is compared to GRAW..... let me know since Im obviously an "Idgit" and dont "NO" anything.

[Sup]

And Prozac,your a idgit.You probably need air planes and such.This aint it and never will be,I hope.Theres know excuse to not play it now.Your just a battlefield whore.I might ad I like the 214r2,ah.But,its a diferant game.All you guys who compare this to [GR] suck,because its just like it except for the one shot thingy.And I lways thought that was bogus in [GR].You got ###### Armor for Gods sake.3 shots yea.lol.

Did I attack you? Im sorry I may have hurt your feelings sweetie pie.

If you know so much about me go ahead and tell everyone what my opinion of [GR] is compared to GRAW..... let me know since Im obviously an "Idgit" and dont "NO" anything.

Theres know excuse,prozac.its a differant game.

[Pritzl]

How about this: the glass is half full, except it's full of water and you guys were hoping for beer. Sound about right?

[RAbbi_74]

Theres know excuse,prozac.its a differant game.

Though it's been said over and over that if this game were delivered MINUS the 'Ghost Recon' name, it would have been judged solely on its own merits. For better or worse. As it included that name, it's subject to criticism for how well fans interpret it to have followed any previous Ghost Recon games as well.

You're right. It's a different game. For some, TOO different.

[Rocky]

And Prozac,your a idgit.

1. No name calling. That's a rule.

2. Use paragraphs. That's a friendly suggestion

[WhiteKnight77]

I know I'm going to regret this, but it has to be said. Papa, you are definitely entitled to your opinion. What I don't get is why you deemed it necessary to establish your credentials as a former soldier in order to make it?

That's pretty much what Papa6 meant. Given the amount of posers it's sometimes safe to let those who don't know, know that somebody has a clue about what they're talking about.

Something one would find out about those who are here and play GR. We either have been or are currently in the military including those on staff around here. Eric has been there done that as has Rabbi and Papa. While I missed all the shooting (I'm to young for 'Nam and to old for Iraq), I was in myself even though not a grunt (but still a rifleman though I was a winger). The premise of GR is what drew us to the game and not what GRAW seems to be (though I can't say as I have not played it).

As for those who wish to flame or call others names, it's advisable to stop now.

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

The old GR community was, and still is, built on us old soldiers and officers. It was a more stable and enjoyable community back when it was less "others", so to speak. Less complaining about every little thing and more working together in the military way to solve whatevery problems there where. I think GR:AW has some elements that I like as a retired officer who know a thing or two. But as many others, I also feel that somethings are missing from the feel of GR1. And part of it is actually not in the game at all, but in the way that the new community acts.

Before people just left if they didn't like what was going on, today they stick around and go over the same things over and over again, like it would actually make a difference... Waisting their own time and that of others.

[Kurtz]

Would we be having this conversation if modders could mod GRAW like they did GR, ie., skins, missions,campaigns, weapons, maps, gametypes, etc. And had a mod implementer as good as GR. My GR mod list now tops 240 and is still growing. My GRAW mod list is nil.

[EricJ]

The old GR community was, and still is, built on us old soldiers and officers. It was a more stable and enjoyable community back when it was less "others", so to speak. Less complaining about every little thing and more working together in the military way to solve whatevery problems there where. I think GR:AW has some elements that I like as a retired officer who know a thing or two. But as many others, I also feel that somethings are missing from the feel of GR1. And part of it is actually not in the game at all, but in the way that the new community acts.

Before people just left if they didn't like what was going on, today they stick around and go over the same things over and over again, like it would actually make a difference... Waisting their own time and that of others.

I have to agree, the feel is the missing element. [GR] just has that "yeah we're actually (okay sort of) fighting a special ops war".... just didn't feel console-ish, so us mil guys used it as such. Fire and Maneuver was the key to [GR]. In a sense so is GRAW, but less so. Could I get a PS2? Sure, but why? PC games have always had the feel of maturity, whereas console is just something to pass time while shamming out of work or just got free time, that simple. GRAW had great elements (stress of getting shot at, firing, etc) but I think that's what killed GRAW is not so much okay, it's a port from a console game, but the feel isn't there in most respects. Your teammate dies in a mission, not to worry! he'll be back next. So you end up not caring so much if your team gets wiped out and you survive. Sure there's always a personal feeling about the situation, but who cares? [GR] you had about... quite alot of people to choose from, but what made it interesting is that you had a skill advancement or your Support guy got wounded who you love to always use, so are you going to take him/her/whatever out on the next mission when you got somebody who's healthy, less skilled maybe, but you could rely on? There's the whole management issue that while you didn't have to always second guess your AI teammates all the time. I've performed some sweet moves with both [GR] and GRAW, but more with [GR] because there's so many factors that are included, which gives it a better feel for the game. GRAW is just like "Okay give Kirkland this, Brown this, Allen the Sniper rifle" And have to try and take out as many enemy yourself so they don't vaporize their ammo load. I mean sure [GR] had it's issues, but at least you could set an ROE. GRAW is just "FULL AUTO DUDE, YEAHHHHHHHH!" and so consequently a target that takes them a few clips, may take you only one or two shots (if not a few more due to aspect) and still you have to really micromanage them, less so in [GR]. [GR]'s kit idea sucked, because in a sense it was more restricting, to which I prefer GRAW as far as weapon selection. Tailoring is what it's about, so that's always a good thing. Sure [GR] had it's benefits, but least you could choose from a good variety somewhat without modding it. Least that's what my feel of [GR] was when I still played it.

As far as the community, there was so much you could do that as Kurz pointed out, there are so many mods out there that well, I couldn't even guess the actual number, but there's something for everybody, [GR] made it to the point where you wanted to learn modding and pretty much started my admittedly miniscule modding expertise. GRAW is just like, "Well let me call in a few favors to the Mob bosses to get me a really cool code hacker, and then it may not be enough." GRAW simply doesn't give the feeling that it can be modded. Sure it can as most people have done and are doing, but while time and effort is needed for modding, it's just seemingly not worth it for GRAW, it puts too many people off since when it comes down to it, there's not much you can do.

[Foxtrot360]

Most of these issues are your sorry a s s computers.most of you dont even know how to clean up your temp folders,defrag,disk check,ect

Most of the people here know more about computers than you likely ever will. Anyone can initiate antivirus and defrag programs in Windows. And that has nothing to do with GRAW being a good or bad game, what about the people that bought whole new systems for it? I guess it is theyre "sorry" computer's fault that GR:AW is bad.

The requirements alone were ridiculous for GR:AW and the demo wouldnt even launch on my PC, and that is terrible seeing as every other game, even intensive games like Company of Heroes and FEAR will run fine on this setup (And to be honest, most others aswell). I cant imagine what GRAW2 will require (and recommend, for that matter). I can not honestly comment on GRAW since the demo wouldnt even launch.

You should go spend your cash on grammar lessons, your spelling is horrible.

PS- Its probably in your best interest not to bypass the swear filter anymore.

Edited November 27, 2006 by Foxtrot360

[ROCO*AFZ*]

Most of these issues are your sorry a s s computers.most of you dont even know how to clean up your temp folders,defrag,disk check,ect

From someone who actually does Computer manufacturing and systems design let me correct you.

Disk check should be ... #1 in older operating systems scandisk. #2 in Newer XP, 2000 (i forget if NT did... been awhile) check disk (start, run cmd.exe, chkdsk)

Foxtrot360... check the recommended for any new games being released. they meet the same as GRAW's... so it's not so ridiculous

Pritzl Either one, water or beer can be cold, but one will quench your thirst in the end and the other will leave you with a hangover.

Wolfsong... you forgot hunters (not a soldier here LOL although my dad was in the airforce)

and finally prozac... don't you have an obsidian edge 2 cd to microwave?

Edited November 28, 2006 by ROCOAFZ

[RAbbi_74]

I know I'm going to regret this, but it has to be said. Papa, you are definitely entitled to your opinion. What I don't get is why you deemed it necessary to establish your credentials as a former soldier in order to make it?

That's pretty much what Papa6 meant. Given the amount of posers it's sometimes safe to let those who don't know, know that somebody has a clue about what they're talking about.

Something one would find out about those who are here and play GR. We either have been or are currently in the military including those on staff around here. Eric has been there done that as has Rabbi and Papa. While I missed all the shooting (I'm to young for 'Nam and to old for Iraq), I was in myself even though not a grunt (but still a rifleman though I was a winger). The premise of GR is what drew us to the game and not what GRAW seems to be (though I can't say as I have not played it).

As for those who wish to flame or call others names, it's advisable to stop now.

Agreed that there's a bunch of current and former military folks in here, as well as law enforcement, from several different countries. I don't think we've ever been exclusive to that, of course, and I should hope none of us 'greenies' comes off as elitist for it. EVERYONE has an opinion and a unique perspective, without exception. If you're a 12-y/o who attends pride marches and anti-war rallies, you still have something to offer here I'm sure. Based on your own unique perspective and your opinions formed thereby.

But if you skin GRAW with pink tie-dye I WILL come find you, hippie!

[MVTalon]

I know I'm going to regret this, but it has to be said. Papa, you are definitely entitled to your opinion. What I don't get is why you deemed it necessary to establish your credentials as a former soldier in order to make it?

That's pretty much what Papa6 meant. Given the amount of posers it's sometimes safe to let those who don't know, know that somebody has a clue about what they're talking about.

Something one would find out about those who are here and play GR. We either have been or are currently in the military including those on staff around here. Eric has been there done that as has Rabbi and Papa. While I missed all the shooting (I'm to young for 'Nam and to old for Iraq), I was in myself even though not a grunt (but still a rifleman though I was a winger). The premise of GR is what drew us to the game and not what GRAW seems to be (though I can't say as I have not played it).

As for those who wish to flame or call others names, it's advisable to stop now.

Agreed that there's a bunch of current and former military folks in here, as well as law enforcement, from several different countries. I don't think we've ever been exclusive to that, of course, and I should hope none of us 'greenies' comes off as elitist for it. EVERYONE has an opinion and a unique perspective, without exception. If you're a 12-y/o who attends pride marches and anti-war rallies, you still have something to offer here I'm sure. Based on your own unique perspective and your opinions formed thereby.

But if you skin GRAW with pink tie-dye I WILL come find you, hippie!

About as Elitist as it gets !!!!!!!!!!!! Thats not a referance to you in particular Rabbi but mostly those that came before you in this thread. This is a freakin game as was The origanel nothing more . Being Military ,ex-Military or law inforcement means very little here ...There are a lot of great players that have had no time in the military whatsoever .

Edited November 28, 2006 by MVTalon

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

Being Military ,ex-Military or law inforcement means very little here ...There are a lot of great players that have had no time in the military whatsoever .

I don't know about everyone else, but I never wrote about any players being better then others. I wrote about the community behaviour. Among players, the SP/Coop players are usually the better behaving, and usually the more mature. But there are always exceptions.

[Pritzl]

Being Military ,ex-Military or law inforcement means very little here ...There are a lot of great players that have had no time in the military whatsoever .

I don't know about everyone else, but I never wrote about any players being better then others. I wrote about the community behaviour. Among players, the SP/Coop players are usually the better behaving, and usually the more mature. But there are always exceptions.

Regarding behaviour, the prime reason for bad behaviour is the alpha male thing so in theory military dudes should be the worst. They aren't though coz they've probably already scratched that itch. No, teenage boys are the worst offenders and they will naturally gravitate to the deathmatch type games. i.e., it's not that the people who play coop/sp are better mannered, rather they play coop/sp because they are easier going. Chicken, meet egg.

Since I started this, let me clarify. All I wanted to say was that being military/ex-military should not be brought into an argument, unless specifically warranted. e.g. someone asks whether the bullet sounds are realistic. Military/ex-military are more likely to have firsthand experience. Therefore it is relevant. However, there are two specific genres of argument that just don't require that:

1. Realism arguments: we already know it's not realistic - at least I hope we all do. No game is. A tad redundant to try to emphasize that with past experience.

2. General game appraisal: this is a subjective thing and I guarantee you that there will be people of all backgrounds on both sides of the fence. Trying to imply that anyone with real world experience (even real special ops) has a more valid opinion when evaluating a game is strange since the only opinion that matters in that regard is your own. If you like it, play it. If you don't, leave it. Simple no?

Ultimately though that's just my opinion and I am quite frequently wrong.

And we now return you to your regularly scheduled programming: Is GRAW a potentially great game that fell horribly short or a reasonably good game with a few niggles?

[RAbbi_74]

GRAW was a reasonably good game that got rushed to release and probably wasn't what the GHOST RECON fans expected of a GHOST RECON game. At least not entirely. AGAIN, had it been released as JUST Advanced Warfighter, it most likely wouldn't have been judged so harshly by the folks around GRnet. And not everyone here is a critic, even.

As I have been lately, let me yin my own yan...

Some details which ARE very GHOST RECONish of GRAW:

1. The orders system... much like [GR], but more precise and a few more options

2. The Tactical Map... BIG improvement over GR for the most part... real-time video feed of the battlefield and edge markers to point to other important map features when in zoomed view... NICE

3. The MINIMAP... who's had to type in, "MAPMAPMAP" in GRAW during TDM? OK, so it wouldn't work anyhow, making it a moot point. But having that map in the current view to orient you at all times is great...

4. REALISTIC ammo capacities and reload times/sequences... self-explanatory

5. Team diversity... allows you to equip your team as you see fit, according to what you expect to need for the mission...

If it didn't hit all the marks, it at least made an effort to improve on many of the important ones (some of which I've left out for sake of brevity) which are still relevant. It's an effort worthy of applause, whether or not it bears the Ghost Recon name.

The same will likely be true of any GRAW2 for PC. Would be better called just ADVANCED WARFIGHTER 2.

So, as previously stated, HALF A GLASS... NO MORE, NO LESS

[Pritzl]

I concur 100%. The only thing I miss from [GR] was the ability to issue ROE-related commands to your teammates. I actually loathed switching ghosts for example because I felt it increased the burden on me personally; instead of letting the AI handle its business I tended to micromanage each team-member. GRAW's better AI (imo) makes that feature completely unnecessary.

[jay316]

GR2

R6:LD

GRAW:PC

all let down the fans pretty bad thats why its half empty.

First I try the demo was poor but some potential in it to have fun.

GRAW for me was one of thoughs games where your clan m8 is like "oh this game rocks!" okay so I buy it to play with some buddies. Even waited untill the 2nd? patch came out before I bought it.

At about 40? 50 hours of game play time It was clear that it diserved to die. Microwaved the DVD and have been done with it since.

graw2 demo will have to simply be awsome to get a dollar from me.

Oh, and Classic Recon my ###. Probly why most of us are not such happy people.

We tried rants we tried nice suggestions we get crap.

Half of us called this website home during the GR days and because some company screws us up the butt we should all have to leave?

I COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT BETTER

[Pritzl]

Microwaved the DVD and have been done with it since.

.

.

.

Half of us called this website home during the GR days and because some company screws us up the butt we should all have to leave?

The obvious question though is, if you're 'done with it' why are you still posting in a forum dedicated to discussing it? I understand you consider the [GR] forums home, but surely no one is twisting your arm to post on a specifically GRAW subforum? Is it just to let off steam? If so, I recommend you not take a game, any game, that seriously.

Cheers...