Xone Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 I really would like a flee and a bunker option. If you dont know what a bunker is, it refers to paintball more specifically a type of paintball called speed ball. It is like a 50 yard field with alot of large objects you can take cover behind (typically large pipes or inflatable objects with various shapes). When you bunker someone, you quickly run up to their known position and shoot them really quick then return to the nearest cover. So imagine, you have an enemy who is hiding behind some cover 10-15 yards away, you order your team mate to bunker, he runs up to the enemy position, quickly shoots him, and runs to the nearest cover. We do it all the time by ourselves in this game but this is just a word for that tactic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degamer Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 90% of the time it seems, the AI does better job the more you leave them alone to their own initative. But at certain times, that just doesn't work. I've noticed that my team just LOVES to stand in the C4 blast radius, and inevitably, 1 will wonder off at some point into a wasp nest of tangos (adn not just wander off a little, like 2 blocks away). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calius Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 I have only the demo, but (I have said this in other places so forgive me for repeating) ... tac-map & waypoints & cover fire arcs leading up to hot spots. View the hotspot ... see where the entry points may be, waypoint & cover arc teams & then execute them & set youself up .. once in the firefight then work more on point & click commands. I used point and click orders alot on demo first off and the AI was a bit " " ... once I balanced the two at the right times (tac map & point and click) it was far more enjoyable & I felt muchmore in control and tactical. I do stress demo & I understand in mass firefights this wont be best, but where possible - tac map when things are not heated & leadig up to those areas & then BAM point and click when you need to shift fast. Try to tac map & waypoitn your team to set up for a firefight if possible. http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php...opic=33718&st=0 .. this was tactics thread I started (a bit to early on) but if anyone wants to add to this for the full game & what combination work for them, feel free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddhiraja73 Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 Thanks everybody who posted in this thread. Please share anymore experiences and opinions that you have. After all, AI is one of the most important things for SP and Co-op, especially in a tactical shooter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge_Recluse Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 One thing people over look is the fact that when the Ghost are in follow mode, they do what they think is best for the position you have put yourslef. If you take an active role in what you want the AI to do you will have little to no problems with them if you play the game smartly. When telling your AI to move to a certain position, you cant just click one waypoint and hope he goes the right way to get there. You have to dig in, tell one guy to cover your position, while you go into the tac map, and give multiple waypoints to the other Ghost so they follow your orders to a tee. Set multiple move points to get them into position, then set the action you want them to carry out once they are there. Lastnight I had an AI flank a Tank that had me pinned down behind a building. I set almost 10 move points to get him into position, then the last to be attack tank. it was flawless the way he handled himself from there. He took out three enemy soldiers on the way, and then slowly moved in for the kill on the tank. I watched in the Tac map and it was beautiful. I was pleased with my efforts in making the command and the AI's decisions along the way there. Great stuff. There are sometimes where the AI will get stuck, and not follow an order, but its a video game, what do you expect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skii Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I'll just add my weight to the excellent AI view. I'm fast discovering how to effectively use my team mates, the Cover command is excellent, and I must confess I do use team mates as bait against MG nests ! I think it really is a case of learning the traits and behaviour of the AI, and employing it effectively. Put it this way, I've been impressed more times than annoyed, and given what appauliing AI can be found in other titles (not just FPS titles) I think GRAW PC is taking a lot of unnecessary flak here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubaman3D Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 AI in GRAW seems better than GR1 AI, anyways. I remember that the GR1 enemy AI could head-shoot you from 100m without even looking... Not only that, but friendly AI would routinely walk into the line of fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talib_killa34 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 The enemy A.I. is pretty good but I still don't feel the tension I did with GR's A.I. as most of GRAW's A.I. stay in the same area and very few advance on you. Yeah, GR's AI was definately better. I remember you play and shoot one or two and then see your TI go red and you wonder "Where is he coming from???" and then "BLAM!" (OGGR PLUG) ALso they would throw frags WAY more, I loved when you were in a firefight prone and then some ###### would lob one that that landed right in front of your face! *BOOM!* Or the grenade launchers, I loved seeing the AI launch one right at your face, just one big blur and then "All Team members lost". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LT.INSTG8R Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I do wish they matched your stance like [GR], you crouched, they crouched etc. I would feel better knowing Im not the only one trying to be stealthy, cuz I KNOW they certainly arent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoa182 Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 (edited) I thought that the original GR A.I was pathetic. Very simple, easy to beat, and never did anything that was impressive. The Single player campaign for ORG was boring compared to GRAW. The AI in graw is probably one of the best I have seen, I send my men to a certain position and its amazing how they use the terrain and find best places to take cover from. If you use your Team properly then it works great. The Enemy A.I is also very good, difficult to beat sometimes and not so dull. Again, I can actually trust me team mates to get to a certain point on the map quite safely. I don't have to continually watch out for them. I've never felt I could rely on game A.I before to get to objectives on their own. Edited May 18, 2006 by whoa182 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talib_killa34 Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 I thought that the original GR A.I was pathetic. Very simple, easy to beat, and never did anything that was impressive. Huh. Well we can both have our opinions but that "Easy to beat" I can't see though. I mean after years of playing this game they got to become easier but don't say when you first got this game they were not good. Otherwise people would not be complaining about "hard" this game is. (GR1) They will nade you, flank you, sneak up on you, take cover, snipe you, launch RPG's, bring out the BMP's, T-72's, use a MG nest on you, frag you, and if they had knives they would stab you in the back! ( ) GRAW friendlies and enemy both can be brilliant or dumb just like the originals. This time though I find the GRAW enemy easier to see, shoot, and kill than the [GR] guys. Plus their "500 yard headshots" abilities seem to be gone now. I have yet to be naded by these guys. They run for cover but just lik [GR] but then they will just come at you, "in the same old way". ha ha! Plus I've already had an instance where in mission 2 the M1 sent to our position to kill us kept shooting its main gun AND its .50 at my guy Brown who was standing less than 5 feet from it and NOTHING happened. In fact I was standing there along with the other two and the tank totally ignored our behinds. 4 years and the more things change the more they stay the same! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRP 56 Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 I thought that the original GR A.I was pathetic. Very simple, easy to beat, and never did anything that was impressive. That's a strange statement considering GR is still going strong after 5 years. If it was indeed that pathetic it would have died an early death and no one would have been interested in working countless hours modding it. Or maybe we were all such pathetic players we actually thought the GR A.I. was good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoa182 Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 (edited) I don't know... I played the GR1 campaign and just found it very easy compared to GRAW. They just sometimes had an accurate shot rather than employing tactics. I can't say that SP interested me much as I enjoyed many years of Multiplayer with my team Edited May 20, 2006 by whoa182 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trident-za Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 I don't know... I played the GR1 campaign and just found it very easy complared to GRAW. They just sometimes had an accurate shot rather than employing tactics. I agree... GR1 AI was not exactly brillaint - the difficulty was usually not due to AI "goodness" but rather placement, sharpshooter skills, and the use of grenades etc. (this is definately something missing from GRAW). GRAW enemy AI is, to me, more tricky. There is not enough random placement, sure. But, each AI character "plays" the role better. I've spent a lot of time watching the AI in the tactical map, and they really do behave more intelligently. I've watched the enemy AI flanking. Ive watched them panic, move to a different spot when a firefight errupts and then 2 or 3 minutes latter move back to their original position. I've watched them react to the sound of gunfire, move to a spot and wait for your team to arrive (this comes across as them being "spawned" in a certain position). I've watched snipers react to gunfire by lying down and crawling to a different spot on the rooftop.... and then crouch, fire a shot or two, and then go back to lying down.... only to stand up again afer a lull in the battle. I've never seen any of this in GR1. For me, the enemy AI is great... just not random enough. The team mate AI is also better than GR1... remember that a lot of the defiencies of the GR1 AI were negated by the ability to "soulswitch" and "micromanage". Since you can't do this in GRAW, the team AI may seem bad at times... but it's actually much better than the GR1 AI. Try playing the GR1 campaign without doing any soulswitching (i.e. relying on the team AI goodness) and you will see what I mean (I have also seen the AI do incredibly dumb things too, but on on the whole the GRAW AI is pretty damn good.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoSo Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 HI Had a couple of questions about squad members and their use of weapons. Sorry for the simplistic questions but I purchased the download version and it comes with what does not even reach the "Idiot Guide" level. -when I arm a squad member say with a GL- can I deliver order to use the weapon....? Or am I at the mercy of the AI's "decision" to emply the GL? -unless there is some way to arm squad members with hand grenades, it seems that this can not be done- Is there any way to do this? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisgruntledArchitect Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 I don't believe you can order AI teammates to use the GL or hand grenades, although I haven't explored it, in depth; you CAN order a teammate to attack a vehicle, and he'll use a Zeus if he's carrying one. You might try ordering a teammate equipped with a GL to 'attack' a vehicle, such a jeep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurtz Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 I never equip the AI with GL because I have never seen them use it, or frags, why do they even carry them. I give them extra ammo or Zeus, if required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddhiraja73 Posted June 28, 2006 Author Share Posted June 28, 2006 (edited) I had posted this in another thread and am repeating this so as to keep all the discussions about the AI in the same place. There are a few players who think that the friendly AI is bad but, in my experience, they are very good. The probable reason why some players have this misconception is because -- the Ghosts follow the player quite a distance away and are not always there to cover his rear or flank. When given the 'follow' order, if the Ghost/Ghosts could move in a close formation, covering different sectors as they move, I think most people would have appreciated this excellent AI more. Ideally, I would like the friendly AI to - follow my orders exactly and move to the exact point / cover the exact area that I ordered. - be defensive, i.e protect my rear and flank when I am attacked and not take too many initiatives of their own to attack the enemy ( unless I order them to go into an assault mode ) Different people have different playing styles and hence different 'states' or 'modes' for the Ghosts, like 'recon', 'assault', ' defensive' etc. are required. I hope Grin would consider these points for future add-ons so that the awesome SP experience gets enriched even further. Edited June 28, 2006 by buddhiraja73 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wille Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 I had posted this in another thread and am repeating this so as to keep all the discussions about the AI in the same place. There are a few players who think that the friendly AI is bad but, in my experience, they are very good. The probable reason why some players have this misconception is because -- the Ghosts follow the player quite a distance away and are not always there to cover his rear or flank. When given the 'follow' order, if the Ghost/Ghosts could move in a close formation, covering different sectors as they move, I think most people would have appreciated this excellent enemy AI more. Ideally, I would like the friendly AI to - follow my orders exactly and move to the exact point / cover the exact area that I ordered. - be defensive, i.e protect my rear and flank when I am attacked and not take too many initiatives of their own to attack the enemy ( unless I order them to go into an assault mode ) Different people have different playing styles and hence different 'states' or 'modes' for the Ghosts, like 'recon', 'assault', ' defensive' etc. are required. I hope Grin would consider these points for future add-ons so that the awesome SP experience gets enriched even further. thanks for your excellent feedback you had some good points!, I would like to point out tho that "follow my orders exactly" is excactly what the ai is designed not to do! Its not a bug that makes them not follow your exact pixel orders. they are designed to be thinking individuals that find the best cover in the area you tell them to go to,on their own.You are supposed to play _with_ the graw ai not _for_ them. And yada yada they arent perfect and they DO stupid things, but they are among the most evolved ai friends you have seen in a game, some people have trouble seeing it tho because they are used to the standard "go here.stay there.good dog" ai thats been around since the middle ages by now.also they handle a fully dynamic environment with dynamic covers.covers that _move around_ and change.(this might sound like buzzwords but they really do) but again some people dont notice that either because they are not even used to such a dynamic environment where practily everything is breakable. its like being a busdriver.no one noticeyou when you are on time but if you are a minute late everybody yells. howoever its fully possible to change the AI I would presume to keep "tighter" to you, but I cant really say what will happen in an that area, since I dont really know... but you could always mod it! this was in no way meant as a negative reply, im pleased to see that you apperantly appreciate the hard work thats been put into the AI, I just wanted to point out what the AI actually does! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockeystick Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 ^^^^ Indeed the AI is probably the best I've seen, but will you add the 'recon', 'assault' and 'defensive' states? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToW-Angel Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 I've played Blackhawk Down and with the Team Sabre expansion... I've playd Joint Operations: Typhoon Rising, Escalation, Reality Mod and International Conflict Mod... I've played Battlefield Viet Nam, BFV PO2 addon mod and Battlefield 2. The AI's in GRAW blow all these other games totally out of the water, hands down. I believe that AI's need to be a bit more agressive as some others have mentioned. One of my complaints is, that the AI only spawn in when the commander/squad leader comes into the area. The leader can only keep up if there are no friendly AI's in the map. This may only be a map makers thing, but having the AI's all spawn in at the very beginning when the map actually starts could pose even a greater threat to the Ghosts, which is the purpose. There might be a limit on how many AI can spawn in at any given time... I personally don't know. A couple maps have that great big finish, but lack the luster finish of a great firefight. Something I feel is missing. Having 50 AI come at you from all directions, taking cover, fighting back, hunkered in and in it for the long fight. Maybe map makers can make this happen. Having surprises like a random vehicle, random spawn in AI's, roving patrols and so on... Map become fairly predictible after a couple of times of knowing where the AI are coming in from. But, my biggest wish is to have a huge firefight. Now, don't get me wrong here... The AI are the absolute very best I've ever played against. Definitely 1000x better than the other games I've played. In the NovaLogic games I've played... AI are absolutely idiotic, run in a straight line, can see through objects and terrain. They are also EXTREMELY predictible and there are no surprises by flanking manuevers unless programmed in by the map maker. In GRAW, you don't know if they are going to flank you or not... The AI in GRAW also have realistic shooting abilities, unlike the previous games I've played. Fix the way AI's spawn in so that the commander doesn't have to be in the area, a bit more agressive, larger and longer firefights, and make it so that you can be surprised by the AI... I know that 2 of these are possible, but the last may be a bit difficult to do and left up to the map maker. The one thing I feel is missing is feeling overwhelmed by a big firefight and tense situation... My heart stays at the same heartbeats per minute. Other than what I've mentioned here, the only thing I have left to say is that the AI are absolutely the VERY best and my hat is off to you guys at GRIN for making the AI feel and act virtually human-like. So... Get my heart pumping and raise my heart rate! LOL THANK YOU GRIN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddhiraja73 Posted June 28, 2006 Author Share Posted June 28, 2006 Thanks for the reply Wille. It is much appreciated. I really love the Graw pc AI ( both enemies and friendlies ) and the logical way they operate. The way they gauge the environment, scan the area for enemies, utilize cover, provide covering fire etc. is really incredible. Its the best AI I have seen till date. Being a gamer yourself I know you would understand the following point. You must have come across some situations in the campaign which are so hard or because you would like to attack stealthily, that you feel that it is necessary to control the Ghosts completely. It is only for these situations that I would like them to follow my orders exactly. Maybe an addtional mode for 'exact order compliance' is the solution. ( Though I don't know whether it is easy to implement this and I might be asking for something impractical ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockeystick Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 In 'Full Spectrum Warrior' the waypoints are highlighted and automaticly attached to a corner. That's quite precise. Tho that game feels more like chess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wille Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Thanks for the reply Wille. It is much appreciated. I really love the Graw pc AI ( both enemies and friendlies ) and the logical way they operate. The way they gauge the environment, scan the area for enemies, utilize cover, provide covering fire etc. is really incredible. Its the best AI I have seen till date. Being a gamer yourself I know you would understand the following point. You must have come across some situations in the campaign which are so hard or because you would like to attack stealthily, that you feel that it is necessary to control the Ghosts completely. It is only for these situations that I would like them to follow my orders exactly. Maybe an addtional mode for 'exact order compliance' is the solution. ( Though I don't know whether it is easy to implement this and I might be asking for something impractical ). yeah ive come to those situations aswell, and it _can_ be a tad annoying in those really tight spots but sometimes you just have to play by the rules given to you;) we´ll see , making a "completecomplience" mod might not be impossible, who knows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddhiraja73 Posted June 28, 2006 Author Share Posted June 28, 2006 (edited) In 'Full Spectrum Warrior' the waypoints are highlighted and automaticly attached to a corner. That's quite precise. I am talking mainly about the cross-com orders in Graw because in tough situations you very often do not have time to go to the tac-map. we´ll see , making a "completecomplience" mod might not be impossible, who knows! Thanks Wille. Edited June 28, 2006 by buddhiraja73 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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