The Opinion about GRAW

[RLT-Olegrus]

I wrote this letter on Ubi. But people answer by only 3 their opinions. So I would to know your opinion here too! Let's discuss!

Hello from Russia. We also play Ghost Recon there. I dont know english very well, but I try to write correctly.

So... As many guys here I play Ghost Recon around 5 years. I played The Ghosts almost every day and my teammates too. And I like this game. That's my favorite game and I think this is the best tactical game ever relised in the game's production.

Of corse we had been waiting GRAW's relise and we have it today.

We should be happy... But it's not right.

First of all, I want notice about an unoptimized engine. How can 7800 Nvidia or 1900 Ati cards have only 30-40 fps and the system must have 2 Gigs on board? What is that? A joke of development? Why developers think that they can compensate bad engine by system capacity? That's not a good position. The normal game must be playable on midi-class videocards well, especially if it was made for multiplayer types of the game, but 20-30 fps is real s... Is not it? That's just compromise developers and ubi too from bad side.

Secondly, the game has many bugs. Ubi anonced the relise of GRAW in november 2005, but relised GRAW in 5 of may. What did Ubi and Grin do during 6 month??? Why they didn't test the game well? Or Ubi don't have good testers? So it should be open testing next time. Why Ubi patch game now by patch that haven't critical modifications? I think if they tested GRAW well, on many DIFFERENT PC with DIFFERENT capacity, we hadn't so many problems with the game that we have now. Today we haven't relise version of the game. It looks like beta version. And we payed it for money. Patch for just "patch" is nothing. We need critical updates for better perfomance and gameplay. If Ubi do this I will say them "Thank you".

Thirdly, we have bad construction of missions. We have scripted bods in same places of their respowns again. Is it so hard to do random spown? It is not interesting when you meet enemy every time in the same place. Then, saves were made badly in missions. In some missions we have a save in each step, but in other missions we have not saves in hard points. What is that? How it can be explanated? The game became so hard that sometime we want to delete it forever from disk. And why only 4 soldiers can resist to army of enemy with many tanks? It's unbalanced. Ghost Recon never was a stupid shooter with position "kill em all". It is a tactical simulator, but not arcade shooter with bravo rambo-rangers. But GRAW looks like arcade. Just look at bod when you shoot in his head. In many times you can see that he's alive! Is it real?

So... What we have? We have unoptimized engine, many bugs, bad optimization of missions and more. What we should to say to Ubi? "Oh, yea, this game is awesome?" I don't think so. I think that many people are disappointment. They has been waiting a good sequel of Ghost Recon, but GRAW looks pretty boaring. I'm glad that GRAW is not like Lockdown, but it's not a good game too. So my valuation is C today. We will wait improvements.

P.S. I am an administrator of russian Ghost Recon portal. I try to answer on many questions about the game. But the questions about problems of GRAW so different that I don't know what I should to answer to people. That means that GRAW have many bugs. That's really bad.

P.S.S. There are many alternative variants of games. So GRAW can lost it's popularity if it will be so buggy and laggy like we have it today.

With regards...

Edited May 20, 2006 by RLT-Olegrus

[=WO=TekHousE]

GRAW WAS tested..by ACTUAL GR players..My squad and a few others were involved..(just check the credits right at the end and you will see)..

I cannot say anymore though..but I can say we need to wait a little longer..June should be interesting..

[LT.INSTG8R]

You bring up some good points.

[viiiper]

SOME GOOD POINTS FOR THE 10,000 TIME

@RLT-Olegrus SOME OTHER GOOD READING FOR YOU

GRAW Was Not Worth Waiting!

http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34977

The Future of the GRAW Community

http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34909

irreconcilable differences

http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34748

My 2 Cents

http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=35011

This Game is a Joke

http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34710

Waiting before buying GRAW?

http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34821

Lightspeed's last words

http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34451

How God made the World ? (in 14 months) impossible

http://www.devil666.com/yourinhell/andyouk...p?shoptopic=666

Where did God go wrong?

http://www.devil666.com/yourinhell/p?shoptopic=666part2

sotty WD, nicked your box !! lol [god ]

[Lightspeed]

lol viiper.

good points olegrus.

and tekhouse, how is it that GRAW is so buggy and slow if its been tested?

[_werewolf_]

GRAW WAS tested..by ACTUAL GR players..My squad and a few others were involved..(just check the credits right at the end and you will see)..

I cannot say anymore though..but I can say we need to wait a little longer..June should be interesting..

How did you not notice some of the very obvious bugs though? I know testing is very tiring and hard, but some bugs are so obvious their right in your face...

[NoQuarter]

GRAW WAS tested..by ACTUAL GR players..My squad and a few others were involved..(just check the credits right at the end and you will see)..

I cannot say anymore though..but I can say we need to wait a little longer..June should be interesting..

I hope your right and the June patch (or whenever its released) fixes the most obvious bugs and oversights- and how bout a set of binos?

Edited May 20, 2006 by noquarter

[WytchDokta]

sotty WD, nicked your box !! lol [god ]

Hehe, I love to see my boxes being put to good use by other people aswell as myself. Good to see you joining the campaign now too Viiiper. However, I think that choosing this one would have been a more appropiate choice for you to post:

[wombat50]

Welcome to gr.net Olegrus.

Some of the faults you write of will hopefully be fixed in the June patch.

I have a feeling it will be huge.

GRIN are a hard working and capable company. I appreciate that they discuss GRAW in these forums. If UBI will let them, they will improve the game all they can.

[ruggbutt]

and tekhouse, how is it that GRAW is so buggy and slow if its been tested?

Might wanna ask the squad that "tested" it. Sounds to me that they weren't very picky about gameplay and wowed by the graphics.

And didn't know what AA was..........................

[LT.INSTG8R]

and tekhouse, how is it that GRAW is so buggy and slow if its been tested?

Might wanna ask the squad that "tested" it. Sounds to me that they weren't very picky about gameplay and wowed by the graphics.

And didn't know what AA was..........................

Heh

[Ben]

and tekhouse, how is it that GRAW is so buggy and slow if its been tested?

Might wanna ask the squad that "tested" it. Sounds to me that they weren't very picky about gameplay and wowed by the graphics.

And didn't know what AA was..........................

Americas Army? No?

Since we can't really answer any/most of that your questions about what we did etc, it's up to GRiN if they want to say a few things or not.

And the ~20 or so people that tested it are all from Clanbase, all competitive players. So hmmm... Cya in June *hint*

[WITCHER]

RLT-Olegrus

Hi Olegrus im from Azerbaijan and i can speak russia:) so welcome to ghostrecon.net

I bought GR3 and im very satisfied, i enjoig this it game every day.

I know their is a little problem with AI and bugs, but this game is still impressive.

Good work GRIN and thank you:)

And very sorry for my horrible english.

Edited May 21, 2006 by WITCHER

[=WO=TekHousE]

Ben is right..

I can say it WAS tested..but testing and fixing, combined with release dates is a totally different thing.

GRiN might have made the game, but UBI OWN the rights to publish.

I'm a little tired of all the posts talking about GRiN should do this, GRiN should do that..

They KNOW what they need to do..but I guess some of you think that the game is in total control of the designers..It simply isn't. What choice have we got but to wait?

In my opinion MOST of your gripes should be directed at the publisher.

Edited May 21, 2006 by =WO=TekHousE

[Colin]

GRAW WAS tested..by ACTUAL GR players..My squad and a few others were involved..(just check the credits right at the end and you will see)..

I cannot say anymore though..but I can say we need to wait a little longer..June should be interesting..

I expect it was mostly done on lan.

And with good computers.

Bugs that were discovered during testing were dealt with asap, some missed the boat, due to release schedual, patching a game after release these days is common with publishers anyway.

GRAW WAS tested..by ACTUAL GR players..My squad and a few others were involved..(just check the credits right at the end and you will see)..

I cannot say anymore though..but I can say we need to wait a little longer..June should be interesting..

How did you not notice some of the very obvious bugs though? I know testing is very tiring and hard, but some bugs are so obvious their right in your face...

The bugs you speak of could you be a bit more clearer please, I have checked your contribution on actual bug reports it seems to be zero.

As yet most of the bugs reported are mostly user error.

Some do exist and are or already have been fixed.

[=WO=TekHousE]

Publishers release games before they are ready, so that they capture market share.

We accept that state of affairs as consumers (generally). So in a way we have contributed to this ourselves. The only way would have been to NOT accept the products (due to being unfinsihed) and return them..(can't do that with software anyway..normally).

I think that the publishers ALL know that in a way they 'have us over a barrel' (meaning they control the situation - a clear case of 'PUSH'). They know we accept PATCHES that fix, change or rectify elements of a game, sometimes WELL after its release.

This is not going to change unless consumers, en masse, vote with their CASH and REFUSE to buy games unless they are proven to be working just as it says on the box.

I read a post on these forums about reviews..and scores etc. WAKE UP! Very few reviews are objective these days. Look through the magazine and see how many OTHER UBI games were ADVERTISED in it? OR failing that, at least accept the possibility that reviews are yet another way to market a game. So they are ALSO something that a company such as UBI would be willing to PAY for..

[_werewolf_]

[The bugs you speak of could you be a bit more clearer please, I have checked your contribution on actual bug reports it seems to be zero.

As yet most of the bugs reported are mostly user error.

Some do exist and are or already have been fixed.

Yes, it's zero as the bugs I noticed have been mentioned over and over already. Extremely obvious bugs that were missed like your AI team-mates don't move where you point them to, they move anywhere but the spot you pointed at. And when you're prone, the firing angle is totally wrong. You can't aim low enough. I gather these have been mentioned anyway.

[Joseph_Q]

Very good points Olegrus, one have to be a blinded fanboy to disagree with You. I like the game, i bought it and i wait for june patch. But i realy hope that this patch will bring us more than some bugs fixing and 1-2 MP gametypes. Game has potential but it is also obviously unfinished and have major bugs ( prone aiming, very stupid friendly AI,unable to move tactical map away for your position which makes you unable to control ghosts 2-3 streets away etc etc) . What do we have here ... ? 5 MP maps ( almost same looking) , 1 weird MP gametype with CS like weapon buying system, 6 primary weapons to chose.... this is not what i expected. I'm GR1 big fan but mostly its MP TvT aspect. I liked GR1 SP and sometimes i played CooP but MP TvT kept me playing this game for ~2-3 years. Im disapointed that MP TvT has been almost forgoten to implement in GRAW. So once more, i like this game, i see its potential but please finish it !!

Edited May 21, 2006 by Joseph_Q

[RLT-Olegrus]

Ok, people. Thank you for activity. I ask my fan site members in Russia about bugs that they have. So I think I will post some bugs which we see in the game or in install process in short time.

[Colin]

Ok, people. Thank you for activity. I ask my fan site members in Russia about bugs that they have. So I think I will post some bugs which we see in the game or in install process in short time.

This will help.

Good details screen shots or short video are best, together with sys spec etc.

[UberSoldier]

sotty WD, nicked your box !! lol [god ]

Hehe, I love to see my boxes being put to good use by other people aswell as myself. Good to see you joining the campaign now too Viiiper. However, I think that choosing this one would have been a more appropiate choice for you to post:

I don't want to offend anyone but let's be honest with our self's. All the pandering for month's hasn't worked so far. So what if the dev's come and post here, what good has it brought.

For years this community posted what they wanted and all we got was a game that is not even close to what was asked .

Delay after delay and this game is the equivalent of Boston's BIG DIG and still some here will get mad and make posters like the one here to insult others that have the right to complaint. This game will get slightly better after the patch, but to do what the community wanted you need to build it from the ground up. Say what you want but they had enough time.

Edited May 21, 2006 by UberSoldier

[ruggbutt]

I don't want to offend anyone but let's be honest with our self's. All the pandering for month's hasn't worked so far. So what if the dev's come and post here, what good has it brought.

For years this community posted what they wanted and all we got was a game that is not even close to what was asked .

Delay after delay and this game is the equivalent of Boston's BIG DIG and still some here will get mad and make posters like the one here to insult others that have the right to complaint. This game will get slightly better after the patch, but to do what the community wanted you need to build it from the ground up. Say what you want but they had enough time.

Yep. And lets not forget that UBI sux too. UBI most likely had more to do w/what wasn't fixed or included than we all can imagine.

[WytchDokta]

There was no insulting anywhere. I did what I did as a gag, no insulting was intended - it was purely meant in fun. If people take offense to what I did, it's their problem for not having a sense of humour. I'm just lighting up the darkness. If I was insulting him, there would have been lots of expletives in my post for a start. I don't have reason to insult him. If what I posted was truly insulting as you state it is, I'm certain the GR.net staff would have removed my post. And you know what? My post is still there.

Surely you understand how much this repetive posting of complaining about the same bugs 10,00 times, whether from the same or different members, is getting other members' backs up? That's the moral behind what I posted. Everytime a member posts a complaint about GR:AW, I'll poster one of my "anti-moaning" posters. Afterall, I do believe the old saying goes: "fair IS fair." I am aware that two wrongs don't make a right, but at the end of the day, fair is fair. Stop posting complaints and I'll stop posting my posters. It's a simple as that.

And I am not defending GR:AW, I am not a GR:AW "fanboi" - I don't even own GR:AW. I'm just sick and tired of all the gratuitous moaning over bugs which have been moaned about 1,000 times already. The forum search feature is there for a reason. And it's not for a nominal reason either. Searching would have turned up results that the certain bug for which a person is about complain, has already been posted about. Common sense tells us to keep the same complaints in one thread, rather than make a million different threads/posts on the same thread.

Yes, they do have the right to complain - I never once said they didn't. You have rights. I have rights. We all have rights. But know this, if they have the right to complain, I retain the right to issue "anti-complain" material in the form of how I did. Or is what I posted in violation of the human rights act?

Actions have reactions. The action of their moaning has created the reaction of me releasing those posters.

Edited May 21, 2006 by WytchDokta

[UberSoldier]

There was no insulting anywhere. I did what I did as a gag, no insulting was intended - it was purely meant in fun. If people take offense to what I did, it's their problem for not having a sense of humour. I'm just lighting up the darkness. If I was insulting him, there would have been lots of expletives in my post for a start. I don't have reason to insult him. If what I posted was truly insulting as you state it is, I'm certain the GR.net staff would have removed my post. And you know what? My post is still there.

Surely you understand how much this repetive posting of complaining about the same bugs 10,00 times, whether from the same or different members, is getting other members' backs up? That's the moral behind what I posted. Everytime a member posts a complaint about GR:AW, I'll poster one of my "anti-moaning" posters. Afterall, I do believe the old saying goes: "fair IS fair." I am aware that two wrongs don't make a right, but at the end of the day, fair is fair. Stop posting complaints and I'll stop posting my posters. It's a simple as that.

And I am not defending GR:AW, I am not a GR:AW "fanboi" - I don't even own GR:AW. I'm just sick and tired of all the gratuitous moaning over bugs which have been moaned about 1,000 times already. The forum search feature is there for a reason. And it's not for a nominal reason either. Searching would have turned up results that the certain bug for which a person is about complain, has already been posted about. Common sense tells us to keep the same complaints in one thread, rather than make a million different threads/posts on the same thread.

Yes, they do have the right to complain - I never once said they didn't. You have rights. I have rights. We all have rights. But know this, if they have the right to complain, I retain the right to issue "anti-complain" material in the form of how I did. Or is what I posted in violation of the human rights act?

Actions have reactions. The action of their moaning has created the reaction of me releasing those posters.

Ok I know is repetitive but understand this that guy that posted the same thing is frustated after paying $50 for a game that is full of bugs.

Some here are missing the big picture and that is all the time the community put into this game by taking part of dev's chat's and coming to this forums in a daily basis to read the very little news that someone else found in another site.

This community has been waiting for this game for years and after all that was said and all that was posted and still the game is missing 90% of what was talked about. This is not Grin and ubi bashing but what happened is enough to make anyone upset.

Edited May 22, 2006 by UberSoldier

[chiles4]

Some here are missing the big picture and that is all the time the community put into this game by taking part of dev's chat's and coming to this forums in a daily basis to read the very little news that someone else found in another site.

This community has been waiting for this game for years and after all that was said and all that was posted and still the game is missing 90% of what was talked about. This is not Grin and ubi bashing but what happened is enough to make anyone upset.

I and probably most everyone who's been a GR fan for years know exactly what you're talking about. That said...the whining and moaning still gets real old!

Viiper, awesome graphic, it's one of the few things that's made me smile since this forum turned into a moan-fest.

And people please, if there's something you don't like about GRAW, post it in the appropriate sticky as a desired enhancement. Don't assume that something is a bug simply because you don't like how it's implemented. Just because you don't like something about GRAW doesn't mean that everyone agrees with you and that GRIN should change it.