Weapons

[ZJJ]

I often hear of how a lot of people want realism, but then in the same breath say that they want more weapons. I know a few SF soldiers. They don't use a lot of weapons and rarely pick up an enemy weapons, preferring not to.

With this thread I would like to see a discussion about realism in regards to weapons, as well as what weapons you would like to see in GRAW2 for those that don't want realism.

[NoQuarter]

Realism.

No need for 300+ kits to cycle thru lookin for your favorite.

A "combat expedient" feature would be nice though. The ability to use that MG or AGL of the crew you just took out or to pick up the SAW of a downed team member when things get busy or your running low doesn't seem to me to be stretching credibility. And I bet those SF types you know would agree!

And on a personal note: Binos are always nice to have around (your neck).

EDIT: And seeing as realism is one of the options here...

The first time I saw this I checked my pockets for more quarters.

Not too realistic.

Edited November 25, 2006 by noquarter

[Sup]

As I've been saying for a while, realism needs to be used only where it benefits the game. It's not exactly that I want a wide selection of the weapons, but whatever variety best suits the balance and style of the game.

[RAbbi_74]

SCAR-L and -H must be included. M8 family need to go away, and perhaps the M4A1 needs to be brought back. Need options for the sniper rifle, as a .50 isn't going to get it done in every situation. And since our medic will have unlimited healing, I think he/she should be limited to an M9 with one 5-round magazine. It's only fair...

[KRP 56]

I don't think we need to be bombarded with tons of weapons to choose from in GRAW2 but snipers need much more than 1 to pick from. 3 or 4 from each weapon class would be nice.

[Pritzl]

Be careful what you wish for. I'm not saying more weapons is a bad thing, but I expect any time/resources invested on them will have to be taken out of somewhere else in the game. Personally, I find the weapon selection in GRAW sufficient and hope that GRiN (if they are going to be making GRAW2) concentrate most of their effort on AI and gameplay dynamics only working on the weapons selection at the very end.

[EricJ]

I'd just like they kept the MR-C (I could live with the SCARs, I do enjoy them when I do get around to using them). Maybe on the weapons side, more options for optics and other high speed gear that anybody can buy? Yes, I know you can throw a stone and hit twenty different sights, but the more generalized (how about an Aimpoint or EoTech or an ACOG?) options would be preferable. IR lasers and god forbid, a tactical light with maybe some options of placing where you want it within some limits? (like only the IR laser on the top or sides?)

[RAbbi_74]

I'd just like they kept the MR-C (I could live with the SCARs, I do enjoy them when I do get around to using them). Maybe on the weapons side, more options for optics and other high speed gear that anybody can buy? Yes, I know you can throw a stone and hit twenty different sights, but the more generalized (how about an Aimpoint or EoTech or an ACOG?) options would be preferable. IR lasers and god forbid, a tactical light with maybe some options of placing where you want it within some limits? (like only the IR laser on the top or sides?)

Certainly you've seen the ESSENTIAL M4 mod by Snowfella, right? THAT is perfect as options for modifying weapons goes. Got the SureFire tac lights, the IR aiming light, etc. (It works, too... have a look) THAT was an awesome piece of mod. The kind of thing that makes me want to play through GRAW all over again from the start.

But from the perspective of a guy who gets to knock down doors for a living, tell us... What would be the most important sniper/DM rifle for GRAW/GRAW2/UNREAL-GRAW/whatever? M24, M14, M82, M99, what? I think you, EricJ, have a pretty good personal perspective on such things...

[EricJ]

Well.. M24 and M14. The Barret is nice, but in my view, it's too slow, and personally use it for more specialized applications (Fixed Machine Guns or knocking out drivers, but have used it for it's intended purpose against long ranged targets when I prefer CCOs). That comes from the power from it's rounds. Sure it's nice to pop a guy from behind a sandbag, but you can do the same with even an ACOG equipped weapon on Semi with careful aiming. Most of the ranges in GRAW makes a 7.62 weapon more practical. Plus they're both lighter. I can maybe carry more ammo for my primary (be it a regular rifle, even without the toys) and use the sniper rifle for more precision shots.

And yeah, I downloaded the M4 mod, but I've not got it working, think version compatibility (if I remember what SnowFella mentioned he was using 1.2 and I've got 1.30) has made it CTD. And I haven't taken the time to see just what the issue is, but that's my immediate guess.

Edited November 25, 2006 by EricJ

[RAbbi_74]

Not to go too far O/T, but I run it on v1.30 retail, and it works like a charm. For some strange reason, I didn't have an 'English' folder in Local to unzip it to, but I made one and dropped it in and it worked magnificently.

You have the latest one, too, with the .45? Sa-WEET!

[insane snyper]

IMO it hardly matters what weapons are included with the game, what we need are simple to use mod tools, and a game designed from the ground up for modability. If I recall correctly all of the content that came with [GR] was packaged as a mod called 'origimiss' in the mod folder. Thats what we need. A tactical shooter is never going to have a huge following, what its going to have is a faithful following, and us faithful followers will get thoroughly bored of whatever is included in about the same amount of time regardless of how many guns there are.

[Cuchillo*]

LMAO pls, pls, a sling shot .

realism ??? omg..... its just a game !!! just make it FUN !! make it playable , that's it .

cheers

Edited November 26, 2006 by Cuchillo*

[Kingkat]

IF the COLT series is unavaiable, then go with the H&K 416- 417 rifles.

They are improved versions of the M4.

Try the Steyr_aug A3 model.................looks cool too..............

Remove the M8.......................increase the calibre of the MR-C to 6.8mm........add a few sniper rifles.........

I agree a limited but "real-world-used-in-combat" weapons. Enough of the "might-be" future stuff.

Kingkat

[RAbbi_74]

The SCAR is real-world stuff. Google it. It's already been funded as of FY 2005, which is to say, over a year ago, for USSOCOM. I'll find you the table if you like, but I know I've seen where there are fielding schedules for it over a couple years.

The MR-C is not real-world stuff. It's scarcely a might-be future concept weapon. This company, Crye somethingorother, draws a dogggone neato geewhizz 3D image of a gun that would use a technology that no one's gotten to work all that reliably (G-11, I know...) and practically. It's a VERY BIG LEAP from real-world-used-in-combat.

For that matter, let's ask around and see what real-world US Special Forces types (like those portrayed in GRAW) would carry for a sidearm. I'd bet dollars to pesos it's NOT the Beretta M9. Anyone care to tell me what it IS?! (hint, hint)

I didn't care about that in GRAW. It didn't diminish the game for me. [GR] had it's unrealistic moments, like REAL WORLD USED IN COMBAT SF guys carrying M16A2's in 2008! HA! And given sufficient motivation, like Snowfella's M4A1, excellent mods CAN be produced by enthusiasts. As pointed out so many other times, modders make this game.

From the initial quality perspective, those weapons included on the shelf in the game will be modeled by the professionals at the developer's studio. GRIN did a great- wait, EXCELLENT- job with modeling and sound with the weapons in GRAW. I contribute to this thread in hopes that the weapons included in any possible GRAW2-PC on the shelf would be somewhat more realistic choices (mostly the sniper/designated marksman), and let the modders add in the man-pack howitzer/GodGun.

Bottom line:

SCAR-L

SCAR-H

M4A1 (replace the M8)

(MAYBE)MR-C

M1911A1 (or other version thereof applicable to SF sidearm)

Mk48 (Mod0 and Mod1... if I remember right, that's the 5.56 and 7.62 distinction)

MP5SD

M82

M14 or M24

ZEUS (?)

(optional vs. ZEUS) BDM (check it out in AA:O)

I'd say limit the SPECIAL/RIFLEMAN to SCAR-L/H

SUPPORT to Mk48

SNIPER to M82/M14/M24

DEMOLITION to M4 or (if used) MR-C 6.8mm

MEDIC to MR-C/M4

Free secondaries

FRAG, SMOKE, and FLASHBANG nades should be allowed

And let's hope this doesn't turn into GRAWoW, the MMORPGFPSOMGWTH?!?!?!?!

Thanks, and have a lovely Saturday!

[Papa6]

my 2 cents folks. there needs to be an easy way to add/remove weaponry in GRAW2.

i know [GR] and the GREAT modding community allowed for people from other countries to add weapons from OTHER countries. I get tired of Just US only weapons.

what about the UK?

what about the netherlands?

what abotu Germany?

my favorite mod was IDF actually.

But modding, be it weapons or maps must have an easier learning curve.

But there's nothing wrong with having more weapons as long as they can be restricted for matches or whatever.

[EricJ]

Hrm Rabbi_74, maybe I shouldn't have tried to included in my "uber mod" that's causing the issues, so I'll have to go at it later on. And yep, it's the one with the .45, which I really wanted to try out.

And really I think insane_snyper really hit it on the head. Regardless of the choices, I think moddability is the key, so weapons you see you don't like, makes it easier to add in without having to consult a Tome just to figure out the small stuff, and a Crusade to get it in (though SnowFella did that work which is of course what I've seen, great) and working. Along with the other elements that GRAW was lacking, but that's for GRAW2 to hopefully figure out. And I agree, a wider variety other than US would be preferable. Or as said, don't see it? Add it! And going along with Papa6, if you can restrict the uber stuff, then it would be cool.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

my 2 cents folks. there needs to be an easy way to add/remove weaponry in GRAW2.

i know [GR] and the GREAT modding community allowed for people from other countries to add weapons from OTHER countries. I get tired of Just US only weapons.

what about the UK?

what about the netherlands?

what abotu Germany?

my favorite mod was IDF actually.

But modding, be it weapons or maps must have an easier learning curve.

But there's nothing wrong with having more weapons as long as they can be restricted for matches or whatever.

Should be... in TVT options to use enemy weapons that are straight from there opposition... like an rpg for example. As for co-op the modders i think can handle it... as long as the weapons and camo are available or easy enough to add. Good point though.

[Pritzl]

Regarding easier modding, it's not possible (as in just modifying a couple of files to get a mod up and running) imo because the game is more complex. (code-wise that is) Besides, what could be easier than XML files? Not only that, GRiN provided for a very user friendly means of overriding the default files where necessary. Though it is lamentable that we don't have the tools to access the .dxe files but which other game gives you access to source code anyway? Heck, GRiN even packaged a .diesel plugin importer for 3DMax AND a modding tutorial. What more do you all want?

[ZJJ]

Don't turn this into a modding thread. That will be a separate discussion. One that any of you are free to start before I do... just don't take any existing one and make it off topic.

[Nutlink]

Personally I loved the weapon selection in Raven Shield because it was so huge, but that was also a downside. I would rather have a decent assortment of decent weapons rather than 1 or 2 to pick from or 50+ unbalanced ones. I think 3 for each class isn't asking too much (Sniper, Rifleman, Support, Secondary).

Edited November 26, 2006 by Nutlink

[Papa6]

ok ZJJ, i was just making a point. I haven't seen ANY foreign weapons for GRAW. the US isn't the only country with spec ops.

But what if they made GRAW2 like an international? like a combination SAS/German GSG9/IDF and so on? that would be great!

[Sup]

But what if they made GRAW2 like an international? like a combination SAS/German GSG9/IDF and so on? that would be great!

It would be great, but it would not be the style of Ghost Recon. All this 'CLASSIC GHOST RECON 4 LYFE' stuff and now you're gonna' say you want a different unit than the ghosts? Team Ranbow is multinational, buy Vegas if you want more guns. The Ghosts had four + specicalists and a handgun in the first game, if I recall correctly, and we all liked it fine.

Edit: Sorry if this post came out kinda antagonistic, Papa. It's early and this subforum is frustrating. Nothing against you.

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

Regarding easier modding, it's not possible (as in just modifying a couple of files to get a mod up and running) imo because the game is more complex. (code-wise that is) Besides, what could be easier than XML files?

Let me remind you that GR1 was also run on XML files. And as for weapons stats, as this topic is about weapons, they are almost the same besides that GR:AW doesn't have ballistics, which makes it much easier to calibrate weapons against each other.

I say, add ballisitcs so wind and rain and such does affect you aiming needs. Also the fact that you'll have to compensate for the ballistic trajectory over range, like in GR1. That is really needed to make a good weapon system in GR:AW2.

[Kurtz]

More weapons of different calibre is fun. My gripe with GRAW is the AT, either make it a simple reloadable point and shoot weapon or model after the AA AT weapon which locks on a target faster.

[EricJ]

I'll include it here since Rabbi_74 brought it up. Howabout making grenades more like an area effect weapon? I mean last time I knew 40mm HEDP does have an area effect. But GRAW makes it like they're shaped charge warheads. In addition, howabout friendly HE tank rounds actually kill an enemy on the other side of a thick wall? I saw a building one time that was hit with a training round and it pretty much jacked it up fairly good. When playing Ready for Bear I was constantly amazed on how friendly tank rounds don't do anything to buildings, but if you get a near miss from an enemy round, you die. Sure it'll take a few rounds yes, but if a damn tank has a bead on an enemy firing behind the wall, after a few rounds there should be like, a large chunk in the wall where a sniper used to be, rather than trying to fight only tanks.