GR:AW Dev. Chat Summary

[Poita]

I wonder if 20 is due to game design or system limitations.

By the way, whats the most in map number of enemies you can get in GR1? I've done missions where the kill count is around 60 but they are parcelled out of course. I was always curious as to what the total visible number of enemies could be in a GR1 mission.

Good point about the demo. No need to guess that we all would prefer an MP 'AND' an SP demo. But if we had to choose which would we prefer???

I vote for an MP demo.

[Dai-San]

Good point about the demo. No need to guess that we all would prefer an MP 'AND' an SP demo. But if we had to choose which would we prefer???

  I vote for an MP demo.

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Depends really, If it's a MP demo thats just DM then personally i'd prefer a SP demo to have a look at the AI etc.

BTW, I was in a GAME store this lunchtime and they had an XBox 360 video running of up and coming games and they had a very long trailer for GR:AW was good watching

Edited December 2, 2005 by Dai-San

[Tortfeaser]

I think you guys are blowing this "20" thing out of proportion. Take it from me a fire team (four guys) on patrol making contact with not just 20 bad guys - but 20 bad guys in defensive positions, with their sectors of fire already sketched out, having all high speed avenues of approach to their position covered by their automatic weapon, with dead space covered by RPG, in real life this would be your unlucky day. With the emphasis on realism, I think some of you are missing that this ain't like 20 AIs in GR, this is a whole new ball game.

I'll say this, if they give the AI the ability to do battle drill one, "Squad attack" you will be screwed. Let me break that down - if an enemy unit of 20 can 1. lay down suppressive fire to make you lock up in place, and: 2. send a smaller assalt unit to flank you and engage you at close range, you are going to be complaining "this is too hard!"

[DBrown918]

I think you guys are blowing this "20" thing out of proportion.  Take it from me a fire team (four guys) on patrol making contact with not just 20 bad guys - but 20 bad guys in defensive positions, with their sectors of fire already sketched out, having all high speed avenues of approach to their position covered by their automatic weapon, with dead space covered by RPG, in real life this would be your unlucky day.  With the emphasis on realism, I think some of you are missing that this ain't like 20 AIs in GR, this is a whole new ball game. 

I'll say this, if they give the AI the ability to do battle drill one, "Squad attack" you will be screwed.  Let me break that down - if an enemy unit of 20 can 1. lay down suppressive fire to make you lock up in place, and: 2. send a smaller assalt unit to flank you and engage you at close range, you are going to be complaining "this is too hard!"

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AMEN, I was just about to say to those complaining about twenty AI's, even if that is the max per level. If they made 20 AI's the max for the level without any more reinforcements then I am a happy man because that means that I'm going to be knee-deep in ###### when i'm taking them on. If they honestly thought 20 of their AI's was enough, then we are all in for really really intense and thought provoking battles. I mean come on, these guys can apparently slide, dive, shimmy, twirl, and for all I know walk on water (well i hope not). I think we will without a doubt have our hands full either way. Imagine having to take on 20 humans at the same time! You'd surely be screwed. Maybe these AI are THAT good when it comes to tactics. I'm going to be happy either way because if its just 20, I know they made some KICK ASS AI, but if its more I know it'll still be difficult and plenty of fun.

[calius]

I think you guys are blowing this "20" thing out of proportion.  Take it from me a fire team (four guys) on patrol making contact with not just 20 bad guys - but 20 bad guys in defensive positions, with their sectors of fire already sketched out, having all high speed avenues of approach to their position covered by their automatic weapon, with dead space covered by RPG, in real life this would be your unlucky day.  With the emphasis on realism, I think some of you are missing that this ain't like 20 AIs in GR, this is a whole new ball game. 

I'll say this, if they give the AI the ability to do battle drill one, "Squad attack" you will be screwed.  Let me break that down - if an enemy unit of 20 can 1. lay down suppressive fire to make you lock up in place, and: 2. send a smaller assalt unit to flank you and engage you at close range, you are going to be complaining "this is too hard!"

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Good post .. bang on with what I was going to post.

[maestro]

i know the AI is gonna be awesome, but 20 still seems a little light to me

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This sounds a little light, GR ranged from 20 to about 50 or so. Doesn't sound right.

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So you guys don't expect the reduction of the number of Ghosts to result in a reduction of the number of enemies? I reckon you're not amongst the people who have welcomed the "covert and stealthy as it should be" statement from GRIN, and people who oppose to "open war" gameplay - because your standpoint here contradicts that. A fight against >20 enemies sounds more like a bullet-bonanza blood bath than a spear-head covert operation.

I hope no person opts for realism while at the same time expecting a four man Ghost team to take on >20 enemies at once - cause that'd a sure be a very paradoxial standpoint. I hear a faint "arcade" whispering from within this expectation.

Personally, I think the gameplay will be tighter with fewer soldiers on both sides - how you position and use your teammates becomes even more important, and the enemies are few enough for you to have a fair chance of keeping their positions in mind when making tactical decisions. If the AI is as cunning as we all hope it will be, they don't need to compensate the NPC:s lack of tactical thinking by increasing their numbers.

In other words, people need to stop thinking that meeting 20 enemies in GRAW will be the same as meeting 20 enemies in GR1 - because the premises are completely different now:

1. The enemy AI is a lot more cunning now

and

2. You don't have as many Ghosts at your disposal.

[maestro]

Good post, Tort. You posted yours while I wrote mine - so mine became pretty much an echo of yours. Good to see there are more people who are the same page as me here.

[Stalker_Zero]

Ok before I even read this thread I wanted to say how mad I am that I didn't get to participate.

Wasn't this dev chat supposed to happen friday dec 02, at noon eastern time??

[[MAD]Inferno]

Too bad the person that asked the demo question didn't ask if it was going to be SP or MP demo.

Or maybe both 

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I asked the question and I wish I would have asked SP or MP but at the time I wasnt thinking. I just wanted to play a demo lol...

If I could go back and ask another 5 questions I would. Too bad we couldnt have gotten more specific answers...

[buddhiraja73]

i know the AI is gonna be awesome, but 20 still seems a little light to me

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This sounds a little light, GR ranged from 20 to about 50 or so. Doesn't sound right.

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So you guys don't expect the reduction of the number of Ghosts to result in a reduction of the number of enemies? I reckon you're not amongst the people who have welcomed the "covert and stealthy as it should be" statement from GRIN, and people who oppose to "open war" gameplay - because your standpoint here contradicts that. A fight against >20 enemies sounds more like a bullet-bonanza blood bath than a spear-head covert operation.

I hope no person opts for realism while at the same time expecting a four man Ghost team to take on >20 enemies at once - cause that'd a sure be a very paradoxial standpoint. I hear a faint "arcade" whispering from within this expectation.

Personally, I think the gameplay will be tighter with fewer soldiers on both sides - how you position and use your teammates becomes even more important, and the enemies are few enough for you to have a fair chance of keeping their positions in mind when making tactical decisions. If the AI is as cunning as we all hope it will be, they don't need to compensate the NPC:s lack of tactical thinking by increasing their numbers.

In other words, people need to stop thinking that meeting 20 enemies in GRAW will be the same as meeting 20 enemies in GR1 - because the premises are completely different now:

1. The enemy AI is a lot more cunning now

and

2. You don't have as many Ghosts at your disposal.

I don't think kurtz, desert ranger or others think that a firefight with 20 enemies at the same time is something light or more enemies are needed per firefight. The confusion has arisen because some thought that the total number of enemies in a large map will be restricted to 20. That is extremely unlikely and Ulf must have meant maximum possible enemies per firefight. Even if it is 20 enemies per map I would still be overjoyed because that would mean that the enemies are of the highest quality.

As far as enemies per firefight goes, my personal preference would be lesser in number but highly realistic and intelligent. Killing even one enemy should be a deal in the hardest setting. If you remember ( assuming you are silent sniper by looking at your sig ), we had a very long discussion in the official ubi forum about the number of enemies per map, and almost everybody wanted much fewer enemies than GR2 and all of them wanted covert missions as opposed to war missions with tons of enemies and over the top action. This is an issue on which most of us concur.

[Stalker_Zero]

Dammit I missed it!!!

Gawd only Prozac seemed to have the bangonzas to ask a decent question. The rest of you asked a bunch of pre answered questions everybody knew the answer to already.

ARGHHH!!

If I was there I woulda asked some REAL questions.

Like if this is a freakin special missions force why the heck is there only 4 men on the freakin team. And I woulda told em to actually treat this as an actual game about a special forces unit and not just some regular army unit.

They obviously are overly influenced about the events in IRAQ. How about being influenced by the special forces units in afghanistan. I woulda much rather play a game with special forces dudes with long beards with the backwards baseball caps with the modded m4s and communication ear pieces going out hunting for terrorists in the mountains.

This near future crap really gettin on my nerves.

I tell ya this graw better impress the heck out of me and be modable. And I mean FREAKIN MODABLE!

*sigh*

[Colin]

Staying on topic

The feed back fromt the devs was very good.

Answered a lot of questions on top of what we know already.

In a few weeks we can see for ourselves how good this is gonna be.

And fine if you dont like it thats cool, you dont have to read about it, I am finding that the more information comes out about the game the more I want to get it.

Its just the waiting now.

Colin

[Tortfeaser]

[i would much rather see] the backwards baseball caps with the modded m4s and communication ear pieces going out hunting for terrorists in the mountains. 

*sigh*

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did you see the question about what kind of expansion pack would we like? hmmmm...

[RatoN]

Staying on topic

The feed back fromt the devs was very good.

Answered a lot of questions on top of what we know already.

In a few weeks we can see for ourselves how good this is gonna be.

And fine if you dont like it thats cool, you dont have to read about it, I am finding that the more information comes out about the game the more I want to get it.

Its just the waiting now.

Colin

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lol… I can’t stop having the same thought about the Devs chat. Do you remember the Xfiles episode where Mulder was given 3 wishes by a Genie? And he had to be very careful when wishing for something because the Genie would misinterpret them and screw things up. Like wishing for world peace, the Genie would make everybody disappear, except Mulder …so is next wishes were 2 page long to make sure the Genie would understand…lol

[Poita]

I truly hope the AI is impressive in GRAW but for years it seems every game released as boasted about how great the AI is and in the end it always turns out to be limited. It's more like they go through some scripted sequence that they know will be a challenge than really reacting to yoru game play.

Half Life1 and OpFlash are the only games who's AI has impressed me so far.

Dai how about that GRAW video. Can't you go to the store and ask them to copy the GRAW part for you and post it onine?

[BoGRIN]

Hi Guys

I'm not usually commenting on stuff as you know - but as this was discussed in the chat:

I'm just going in here to confirm what Ulf said on the enemies.

He of course meant 20 ppl plus their support units fighting the ghosts AT THE SAME TIME.

And yes - when that happens (if it happens - depending on YOU) then you will find yourself in a world of pain. Squad attacks, fire lanes and tactics using snipers mixed with HW guys will make this a hard scenario.

Thanks to all who dropped in and talked to us - we're sure to do it again.

G'nite

Bo

[Stalker_Zero]

[i would much rather see] the backwards baseball caps with the modded m4s and communication ear pieces going out hunting for terrorists in the mountains. 

*sigh*

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did you see the question about what kind of expansion pack would we like? hmmmm...

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Ya I did. Mostly people shouted about jungle and snow? So your point would be.................

[smokin]

Good read, only thing I found disapointing was when the devs asked what we would like to see in an expansoion and the obvious was missed. What happened to suggesting a larger coop team?!?!?

[WhiteKnight77]

Hi Guys

I'm not usually commenting on stuff as you know - but as this was discussed in the chat:

I'm just going in here to confirm what Ulf said on the enemies.

He of course meant 20 ppl plus their support units fighting the ghosts AT THE SAME TIME.

And yes - when that happens (if it happens - depending on YOU) then you will find yourself in a world of pain. Squad attacks, fire lanes and tactics using snipers mixed with HW guys will make this a hard scenario.

Thanks to all who dropped in and talked to us - we're sure to do it again.

G'nite

Bo

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Thanks for clearing that up from Whitey.

[Colin]

Thanks Bo for the crearl up.

C

[Stalker_Zero]

Hi Guys

I'm not usually commenting on stuff as you know - but as this was discussed in the chat:

I'm just going in here to confirm what Ulf said on the enemies.

He of course meant 20 ppl plus their support units fighting the ghosts AT THE SAME TIME.

And yes - when that happens (if it happens - depending on YOU) then you will find yourself in a world of pain. Squad attacks, fire lanes and tactics using snipers mixed with HW guys will make this a hard scenario.

Thanks to all who dropped in and talked to us - we're sure to do it again.

G'nite

Bo

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Hey come back!!

Restart the chat I didn't get to participate.

ARGH!!!!!!

[Joseph_Q]

Stalker Zero , stop implying that someone asked stupid/already asked question. You didn't participate in chat because Your own mistake. You should blame Yourself that You couldn't ask Your brilliant questions.

To be honest, i realy enjoyed that chat and im satified with Q/A .

PS. I hope demo will be released in first week of January

[buddhiraja73]

Thanks for the clarification Bo. The part about enemy tactics fills me with great, great pleasure.

[Poita]

I get the feeling that Bo doesn't bull when he says a certain feature is gonna be great (as most game producers seem to talk up their game no matter what it's like). I'm looking forwad to tangling with his creations.

[Stalker_Zero]