>> The Co-op Crowd <<

[Rocky]

What features do co-op gamers need to enjoy co-op gameplay and organise co-op tournaments?

Tactical maps, mission modding tools, etc etc, have at it!

SUMMARY

• 8 or more players
  
• Ability to complete objectives in any order based on current battle scenario
  
• Mission Script editor with GUI i.e. no hand coding
  
• Open kit selections with ability to set restrictions, attachments and breach items (scopes/flashbangs/smoke)
  
• All missions playable co-op (ie SP campaign missions).
  
• Realistic weapon dynamics, ie.e damage and accuracy over distance.
  
• Ability to script random events (for replay value)
  
• Character classes
  
• Open maps, with indoor CQB too.
  
• Real insertions (to set the atmosphere and tension!)
  
• Start on leader spawning
  

[WhiteKnight77]

Enough slots for more players than just 2 or 4. We want true Coop with at least 8 if not more (this means more than 4 team members in the SP portion of the game too).

[Papa6]

ability to complete objectives in any order based on current battle scenario.. mess up an objective change up and go to the third one then back to the second if mission situation offers.

[bkriley]

I thought GRAW2 was there on the game play I thought it was great but lacked in key areas.

What I would like to see in GR-IV.....

More coop slots like WK said above

Better Script editor....simpler......no code writing......and stable would be nice.

Better simpler servers (deicated or hosting) none of this "/admin/login/map_01 or what ever it is that's weak.

I'd like to see kit selection in COOP like it was in the single player GRAW2 pick your pri, 2nd, nades, smoke ....

and support the game with patches and an expantion or two don't move straight to GR-V when this one hits the store shelves.

[legacywork]

Dunno if I've got the gist of this ....... what I would like is more use of the buildings, seems such a shame that they are there but not used to any extent, would like to do a mission where you had to infiltrate the building (or a building complex) and perhaps retrieve some document or laptop for instance ?

Legacy

[AJ59]

1. A game that doesn't crash. This should be obvious, but.... (Along with an edittor that doesn't crash)

2. More control over the server, i.e. when one mission ends, it doesn't autostart the next unless desired.

3. All SP missions should be available as COOP missions as in [GR] The game should be designed so that if some makes one mission, the game has the ability to run it as SP mission or MP COOP. This can't be all that hard if planned for when the game is designed.

4. I did like the "respawn" on squad leader in GRAW1. That was cool. Or at least I have heard it was cool as I never die!

5. More control over the kits, like in [GR]. That is, with restrictions that can be set on the server. I also liked the kit selection method in GRAW1... where you can change out what you want and then save it.

6. The ability to run more than one mod at a time.

7. More bunnies.

Wow... looks like what I mostly want is an updated version of [GR]!

Seriously, I think if GR4 was an update of [GR] with nice graphics most people here (not all) would be pretty happy.

Edited December 5, 2008 by Pave Low

[Tinker]

@AJ59

Hate to be picky, but just for clarification.

[GR] is a game mode designed for Advanced Warfighter. Hopefully you mean GR1?

[AJ59]

I guess if we are going to nit pick, I meant "Ghost Recon". My game CD doesn't say "GR1".

Thanks for pointing that out!

[Nutlink]

Coop based off of realistic settings. I don't want an enemy sniper to pick me off when I can't see him at a distance due to draw distance settings, nor do I want an AK-47 to hit me in the head while hiding in a bush at 200m.

I don't want 300 guys on a map. For 8 people I think less than 50 should do, especially if the AI is done well. Make the AI deadlier by being smart, not by increasing their numbers.

I don't want to see maps being so linear. Going from point A to point B every single time gets dull. Give some (or a LOT) of random things happening. This way you'd need fewer maps designed and the replay value would be significantly higher, especially with various insertion points and a sandbox type map.

Be able to pass on orders to a squad (2-3 squads per server maybe?). Nothing is harder than trying to coordinate a group of guys if they don't have teamspeak or ventrilo.

Have all the enemies spawn on the map at once. It's ridiculous to have a group spawn behind you after you cleared an area, and it's annoying to see a group spawn 100m ahead of you. Not only is it annoying, it's just bad design. Having all the enemies on the map from the start removes this problem (and the need for unnecessary fences to spawn them behind).

Incentive to have people work together. In GRAW 1/2 all you needed was 1 person to know where everything was and BAM! They do the whole mission themselves with minimal help from the others. Try something innovative to force at least some level of teamwork.

Server options. If it's possible someone might like it different, make it an option that can easily be changed.

Maps made for no-respawn. It brings on a lot more tension, gives people more incentive to play that way, and the immersion and tension levels are much higher than run, kill, die, respawn, run, kill, die, respawn....

I'm sure there's much more I could think of, but that's just off the top of my head.

[dporter]

1)MODS:

Auto download of all mods including maps when joining a coop server. This will help encourage the use and play of player created content.

This isn't really coop related, but while I'm on the mods topic I'll also say that it should be a lot easier to install and activate the mods for the game as well. Everthing goes in one mods folder and they are activated/deactivated within the game.

2) COMMUNICATIONS

I know a lot of people use teamspeak, but personally i'd like to see a good quality advanced in-game mic system that allowed teams to not only speak to the entire unit if needed, but to also have the ability to toggle it over to only talk to their assigned squad. This way if we have open objectives which papa talked about you could switch over to just talking to your individual sqaud so there isn't a bunch of chatter over the headset when the squads want to tackle different objectives.

3) CHARACTERS/KITS

Keeping clases is important so that players have a defined role in the mission, but the weapon and kit customization should be fairly robust. An assortment of scopes, grips, silencers, and various other attachments is a must, as well as choosing breach items such as flash bangs, nades, and smoke. It would also be nice to have the ability to have four or five saved player loadouts so that if you have a favorite loadout you can save it to your profile and make selecting your character quicker.

There are plenty of others as well but some have already been covered like being able to use the buildings more so I don't want to make this any longer to discourage people from reading it. Good ideas so far though.

Edited December 5, 2008 by dporter

[Lightspeed]

1. 8 - 12 player coop

2. good modding tools

3. unlinear maps

4. random objectives and/or random spawned AI

5. GRAW2 feel

6. no diamonds at all....ever.

7. server-side options,options,options.

8. clever AI

9. real insertions a la GRAW - brilliant.

[HoppinRaven]

I would like to add full mod ability: choose what weapon kit you want, what kind of sight, number of mags, number of grenades, side arms, secundary weapon or tankkiller, etcetera.

Coop mode for 8 to 12 players would be great, 8 is the utter minimum I think though.

Non-linear mission templates would be great.

Different COOP modes: Firefight, recon, random number of simple objectives in followup. Would be great if it is possible in programming to add a number of AI in certain COOP types such as in GR 30/60/90/120 and so on enemies plus a base number decided on the number of players. Oh and Infiltrate and extract POW!

First person all the way, GRAW2 and GRAW (PC versions) have very solid movement and give a nice and gritty real life feel.

Would be fantastic to play the campaign from first step on in COOP instead of doing it alone first.

Able to pick up mags and grenades from bodies, and weapons that have been dropped or dumped. Ammo crates (and yes they should go boom when you shoot at them)!

Start on leader as it is done in GRAW.

The ability to SNEAK and put a knife in an AI's back (the heavier your load though the harder it should be to succesfully sneak up on someone).

[krise madsen]

For the sake of being contrarian, let me start with what i do not want to see in GR4 co-op: Starting up the game and finding three maps playable in co-op. Three! Why don't they just put up a picture of Ubi mooning me with "co-op is teh ghey" written across their butt-cheeks? In other words, don't insult me. Include proper co-op or don't include it at all.

Anyway, I say just look at [GR] and the fabulous co-op lobby: The way you could choose maps and how to play them: Firefight, recon, defend etc. or play the SP missions. You could regulate enemy quality, quantity and set respawns per individual or per team, or none at all. It's still totally awesome and the yardstick for co-op lobby.

Respectfully

krise madsen

[Rocky]

Anyway, I say just look at [GR] and the fabulous co-op lobby: The way you could choose maps and how to play them: Firefight, recon, defend etc. or play the SP missions. You could regulate enemy quality, quantity and set respawns per individual or per team, or none at all. It's still totally awesome and the yardstick for co-op lobby.

Agreed, it really was before it's time, the options at our disposal for tailoring each game to our preferences was/is awesome.

[slingshot915]

Everything so far sounds right on. One thing I wish Ubi would do also is to make accessing the maps a little easier. Nothing worse than getting ready to play with your mates and then have to get out of the game, and take out maps till you can see them in the coop server window.

[HoppinRaven]

...In other words, don't insult me. Include proper co-op or don't include it at all.

Please, don't go giving them ideas!

Anyway, I say just look at [GR] and the fabulous co-op lobby: The way you could choose maps and how to play them: Firefight, recon, defend etc. or play the SP missions. You could regulate enemy quality, quantity and set respawns per individual or per team, or none at all. It's still totally awesome and the yardstick for co-op lobby.

I totally agree there, GR1 was and still is a damn good game. The functionality and the diversity is a very wanted thing indeed.

And I very much second on the amount of multiplayer maps, Coops and other. Though I think the emphasis should lie on coop since in the SP campaign you get to lead a team, not do a one man action.

Not saying that team versus team or last man standing should not be in it, it is a plus.

Would like to add another thing: a Last man standing version where there are AI too!

Edited December 9, 2008 by HoppinRaven

[Tinker]

Would like to add another thing: a Last man standing version where there are AI too!

Already possible in GR1/GRAW1/GRAW2

Just need a modder interested in TvT or Solo to implement it.

Try to keep this topic to Co-Op though pls.

[Tinker]

Hostages / POW`s / Civilians

When you capture any of the above, they should automatically follow your stance at all times, until scripted / triggered otherwise, like GR1. If I want to avoid a patrol by crouching or going prone behind a wall, I expect my captive to do the same and not just stand there staring ahead.

These actors should have no weapons, infact the ability to give any actor no weapon, or another kit, by mission scripting, would be more desirable.

GR1 had a problem of the actors holding there arms out, as though they had a gun, depending on situation and scripting. A new animation just for no weapons, with there arms down by there sides would be preferred.

[DeathMerc USVN]

INTERACTIVITY

Interactivity with MISSION ASSETS.. what do I mean by that...

The ability to call in or have assets available on the fly throughout your mission...

Imagine calling in for...

- a tank that is already in the sector to take out some armour or even a building....

- a jet or gunship to clear out some infantry that has you pinned down

- may need to call in a airstrike or artillery to level a shanty town....

All are available as scripted events in GRAW 1 & 2. and to some extent in [GR].

But not on call as an available resource like... dare I say ARMA or even COD4.

This would be an awesome assets to add to [GR 4].

DeathMerchant

[charliebrownau]

- Start on leader spawning I would like to see again

- Add start on check point and add check points in the game ,

nothing worse in GRAW1 then having to walk for 20 min's back

to an area .

- Add drivable/usable resources - Tanks/cars/boats

that the bad guys might of been in or civilians left on the road .

- I prefer the GRAW1 interface then GRAW2 for coop also .

[Sup]

[*]Mission Script editor with GUI i.e. no hand coding

[*]Realistic weapon dynamics, ie.e damage and accuracy over distance.

[*]Open maps, with indoor CQB too.

These are all things we definitely need. Also scale of missions. Due to the play structure of GRAW (console) it was very easy for players to sprint around and finish objectives without playing through carefully? I think that was one thing the PC version did better, right? (to those who've played it, more than the demo)

As for 8 or more players, ability complete objectives in any order, and kit selection, we already had that. As for ability to play all missions co-op, i don't care if they give us the SP missions or not (if they're scripted to plan for SP i don't want them to waste time porting them) i just want a fully featured, quality campaign i can play online.

This is all assuming PC and console get the same version instead of the ridiculous outsource and spend less money on the PC version tactic.

[ApexMods]

For brevity's sake, I will avoid going into technical aspects at this time and try to focus solely on the principal reasons for good Co-Op features in a tactical shooter (or any other game for that matter). Many new game releases neglect Co-Op features to an alarming degree - a trend that hopefully will be reversed in future GR installments.

First of all, multiplayer is such great fun not only because it allows to share a gaming experience with other people, but also because it actually alters the gaming experience - it adds a new "game type", so to speak - thereby it increases variety and in turn replayability of a game. Within the realm of multiplayer gaming the sheer variety of different people with different styles of play exponentially increases this factor even more, so good multiplayer features add a a lot of additional value to the game, already.

But on top of human-vs-human multiplayer gameplay, well-implemented Co-Op capabilities can take the game to a completely new level. Co-Op profits from exactly the same advantages simple multiplayer offers, but it comes with a host of additional benefits that can make the difference between a short-lived game, vanishing from online game servers after a brief period of time, and a true classic, being played again and again for years and years.

The most prominent benefit of Co-Op play is its ability to unite a group of people behind a common goal. The social value of this feature goes beyond the one-vs-one multiplayer, because in addition to meeting friends to play against online, in-game players find themselves in a group of friends, too. The importance of this element can be deducted by observing the many clans and guildes forming online all the time.

Now we have established reasons for multiplayer gaming and team-based play - time to touch the subject of Co-Op. While clan-based team-vs-team multiplayer is considered the pinnacle of online gaming by many, it has a serious shortcoming - you always need an comparably structured (and socially compatible) team of other human gamers to play against. Of course, the mentioned shortcoming is not this need, but rather the actual availability of such a team of opponents.

Any chief of a gaming clan will tell you how difficult it can be to keep a clan together, to keep it organized and focussed - and this is just the group of people who are playing together, imagine how difficult it is to coordinate between many clans that play against each other. But organizational obstructions aside, the real problems may just begin when two groups of people face each other in online battles. What starts out as friendly contests often turns into open hostility, and the leisure activity of gaming for fun can become an altogether unpleasant experience.

Here's where a great value of Co-Op comes into play: You need only friends - no human opponents - for Co-Op gaming. All players are on the same side and the competition is against the evil computer AI - a common enemy that is always ready for battle and (almost) never resorts to unsportsmanlike behavior. When you enter a Co-Op game server online, you will often immediately notice the difference in attitude between the players, because in Co-Op games, not only has everyone to get along with everyone else, you also have to be able to rely on each other to succeed in the game.

As a consequence of this Co-Op requirement, players tend to behave a lot more civil and courteous, and the social experience has a much lower risk of spoiling the gaming experience. It could be said that my view of team-vs-team multiplayer is too negative and that reality might not be quite so hostile, but if you have been around in online multiplayer gaming for a while, you will probably at least agree that there exists a certain measure of unpleasant behavior not everyone is willing to put up with, and Co-Op play can provide a mean to stay within self-chosen confines of the multiplayer experience.

[doubletap]

One request I see repeatedly is buildings with doors, buildings you can enter. Something I never see specified is that this is useless without some reason to enter a building, lol.

In GR1 there are buildings you can enter and kill (or more than likely be killed by) the same enemies in the same positions every single time you play the map.

Conversely, in GRAW, there are many buildings with not a soul in them. That would be fine if sometimes there were enemies, and other times there were none. But if they're always empty, well....

Edited February 11, 2009 by doubletap

[krise madsen]

Doubletap, Good point, of equal importance to SP and co-op. There's little point in open buildings if the enemy AI can't figure out how to use them (without non-random scripting).

Apex, that's pretty much why my GR multiplaying is virtualy exclusively co-op: I want to share the experience with others (and as doubletap mentioned in another thread), share the immersion, not battle compete with other human players for the purpose of winning. The lack of co-op in many games is puzzling. The first time I noticed was with Far Cry. I never understood why I couldn't play those missions in co-op.

Respectfully

krise madsen

[Rocky]

Here's one for enemy AI, can we not have x-ray specs for them? It's so fake (and annoying) to hear the enemy track you with live rounds you while you walk behind a solid wall. Once you disappear behind an obstacle and are out of line of sight, then enemy should not be following your movements. They should probably do one of three things,(1) relocate, (2)scope last known position, (3) scope next likely position. Any of that is cool, xray movement tracking is bad. GRAW get's this so wrong, and just about a show stopper for me.

It might seem like stating the obvious, but we should not be afraid to state the obvious when it is apparently so easily overlooked.