irreconcilable differences

[NOX]

We have come to the point of irreconcilable differences between the MP and non-mp gaming community.

There is no way that MP game play can be made functional and complete in the next 30 days.

Co-op you got your game, but you are and always have been the minority-but I do love you modders.

I returned my copy tonight-there was no value in not being able to clan match the game.

UBI and GRIN are negligent in not spending the first 6 months and the majority of funding of said time developing a game that started us off at the ending point of GR1.

Co-op servers are grotesquely outnumbered by MP server on Games Spy, as they always have been-yes, co-op players are happy, but the vast majority of GR players are not.

There is no way that this game can or even worse “would have ever been fixed†for MP clans. In fact UBI never intends or intended to make it a viable PC game. If they had their attention would have focused on the needs and wants of the 20,000+ or so MP players circa 2003-be reminded that was a nightly number, leaving out private, ASE and other servers.

I believe that Games like GR and true FPS shooters should be developed in the USA not outsourced.

My best analogy is Soccer, our women play soccer to a world class level, but US men gravitate to aggressive contact sport such as American Football and Hockey, we also play Baseball and Basketball.

We need to take back our games- FPS and the Internet after all they are US made techs and you have mucked it up a bit.

In the last ten years the US has off-shored many industries, but failures like GRAW are raising the awareness of getting it done right the first time. RSE or Red Storm Entertainment is a North Carolina based company, bought by UBI. Maybe UBI needs to release them?

So if you are a European developer be forewarned that your biggest market is growing quite tired of failures i.e. BF2 and GRAW.

Maybe it is perception, or a cultural difference we like human competition and you like the computer.

[VeLocityChaos]

Coop isn't really that complete either at this moment. When the team leader dies the game ends. There isnt any firefight,defend or other gametypes. At this point all coop players have to play are the missions and unfortunatley after awhile they will get old because the enemies for the most part are always in the same place. The game in itself is still just a work in progres. But, at least it is a "work in progress" at least its not declared finished by UBI. We have been told they will continue to develop more stuff for the game. So its not just the MP that is unfinished, everyone is wating for more additions.

[NOX]

Where did they get the babe-dawgs for E3, the blonde is ok but then again is my age.

[silent_op]

Co-op you got your game, but you are and always have been the minority-but I do love you modders.

What do you mean we got our game? CO-OP is currently just as flawed as your adversarial (CO-OP is also a form of Multiplayer) Domination game. If CO-OP was what the CO-OP side of the community have been waiting for, it wouldn't be some sad 4 player limited game mode. UBI clearly didn't pay attention to the world around them when they made that brillant move. You think having restricted movement in "mission areas" is some CO-OP dream? How about the Captain is dead and too bad for the rest of you mentality?

Co-op servers are grotesquely outnumbered by MP server on Games Spy, as they always have been-yes, co-op players are happy, but the vast majority of GR players are not.

CO-OP servers on GameSpy are "grotesquely out numbered" because of the 4 player limit. I guarantee you it would not be so lopsided if CO-OP had 32 players. What if Domination was limited to 4 players, would you like it? CO-OP players are no happier than the adversarial players, in my opinion. We are all trying to make due with what we have until the Patches are all released. However with your thinking, I'd say the adversarial (Domination) GR:AW players are extremely happy. Afterall, you did point out that the "Co-op servers are grotesquely out numbered by MP server on GamesSpy".

I believe that Games like GR and true FPS shooters should be developed in the USA not outsourced.

My best analogy is Soccer, our women play soccer to a world class level, but US men gravitate to aggressive contact sport such as American Football and Hockey, we also play Baseball and Basketball.

What are you trying to say here?!?!

In the end, all I can say is you gave up too soon on GR:AW. The Patches...It's not even June yet and you threw in the towel. What if the Patches come out they fix all of your "MP" needs?

I'll walk away from GR:AW if the Patches, modding tool and dedicated server files don't amount to much. However I'll give GRIN time to complete their huge task of Patching GR:AW. At the very least if GR:AW doesn't satisfy me, I'll keep it around until Armed Assault (developed by a Czech company) comes out.

silent_op

[ishikowa]

Well, all this about the game being incomplete just turned me off to buying it. I have no interest in paying $55 to get into a Beta test.... If I'm going to shuvel out enough money to eat on for a week then I want a finished game.

[VeLocityChaos]

Well, all this about the game being incomplete just turned me off to buying it. I have no interest in paying $55 to get into a Beta test.... If I'm going to shuvel out enough money to eat on for a week then I want a finished game.

GR1 wasnt even finished when we got it..Id rather have a game released that they are still working on and adding things that the community wants.. than a game that is said to be completley finished and developers no longer taking community feedback and adding things for us.

[NOX]

Co-op you got your game, but you are and always have been the minority-but I do love you modders.

What do you mean we got our game? CO-OP is currently just as flawed as your adversarial (CO-OP is also a form of Multiplayer) Domination game. If CO-OP was what the CO-OP side of the community have been waiting for, it wouldn't be some sad 4 player limited game mode. UBI clearly didn't pay attention to the world around them when they made that brillant move. You think having restricted movement in "mission areas" is some CO-OP dream? How about the Captain is dead and too bad for the rest of you mentality?

Co-op servers are grotesquely outnumbered by MP server on Games Spy, as they always have been-yes, co-op players are happy, but the vast majority of GR players are not.

CO-OP servers on GameSpy are "grotesquely out numbered" because of the 4 player limit. I guarantee you it would not be so lopsided if CO-OP had 32 players. What if Domination was limited to 4 players, would you like it? CO-OP players are no happier than the adversarial players, in my opinion. We are all trying to make due with what we have until the Patches are all released. However with your thinking, I'd say the adversarial (Domination) GR:AW players are extremely happy. Afterall, you did point out that the "Co-op servers are grotesquely out numbered by MP server on GamesSpy".

I believe that Games like GR and true FPS shooters should be developed in the USA not outsourced.

My best analogy is Soccer, our women play soccer to a world class level, but US men gravitate to aggressive contact sport such as American Football and Hockey, we also play Baseball and Basketball.

What are you trying to say here?!?!

In the end, all I can say is you gave up too soon on GR:AW. The Patches...It's not even June yet and you threw in the towel. What if the Patches come out they fix all of your "MP" needs?

I'll walk away from GR:AW if the Patches, modding tool and dedicated server files don't amount to much. However I'll give GRIN time to complete their huge task of Patching GR:AW. At the very least if GR:AW doesn't satisfy me, I'll keep it around until Armed Assault (developed by a Czech company) comes out.

silent_op

Well if what you write is the true state of CO-OP then we are both in the world of suckdoom.

But I do disagree to your reference that my world and yours are equal-they are not! MP world runs yours by grace of dollars spent on title. RSE created a truley revolutionary game fro the internet, yes it was a 56k world. I purchased ISDN tp play, then cable, then DSL ,then Cable, then DSL and now have a 15Kmb down x 2mb up but do not have a game to play.

[Judge_Oblivion]

Um.

I would think the game is worth the price just for teh single player.

MP will come.

I invested 5 months on COD2 which out of the box was more "stable" but had no hope of ever being improved EVER. IW sucks.

At least GRIN keeps in contact with the community.

They did a good job considering how much time they had.

HAve faith.

[Sup]

I invested 5 months on COD2 which out of the box was more "stable" but had no hope of ever being improved EVER. IW sucks.

Two patches, two maps, and an SDK. Sounds like improvement.

[Manji]

We need to take back our games- FPS and the Internet after all they are US made techs and you have mucked it up a bit.

In the last ten years the US has off-shored many industries, but failures like GRAW are raising the awareness of getting it done right the first time. RSE or Red Storm Entertainment is a North Carolina based company, bought by UBI. Maybe UBI needs to release them?

So if you are a European developer be forewarned that your biggest market is growing quite tired of failures i.e. BF2 and GRAW.

Maybe it is perception, or a cultural difference we like human competition and you like the computer.

dude..that's possibly the most inane diatribe I've read on this forum. How about we just give the rest of the world back all the things they invented like oh I dunno, Democracy, cos you guys have done a bang up job of making it the laughing stock of international politics (those without sarcasm glands please realise I'm joking in much the same way I hope this OP is about his US-centric ######) Panic merchant much?

BF2 a failure? What planet are you on? seriously thats a hilarious statement

As for irreconcilable differences you need to pull your head out of your rectum and realise that there's a great many of us who dig where the game is going, how the support of GRIN is already showing us. Don't pretend to speak for the rest of us please.

Edited May 14, 2006 by Manji

[silent_op]

those without sarcasm glands please realise I'm joking in much the same way I hope this OP is about his US-centric ######

I hope by "OP" you weren't confusing me with saying some riduculous narrow minded US centric comment. That was all NOX.

But I do disagree to your reference that my world and yours are equal-they are not! MP world runs yours by grace of dollars spent on title.

NOX this comment is clearly you having some sort of breakdown. I never said or implied that your "world" was equal to mine. I didn't even speak about worlds. Nox, GR:AW sucks in your opinion and you returned the game. You should be relieved now. Just step away from the keyboard, take a few deep breathes, then load up your favorite MP run-n-gun game. Don't even give GR:AW a second glance.

silent_op

Edited May 14, 2006 by silent_op

[Manji]

no no Silent Op... I was meaning "Original Poster" when I said "OP" and by that i meant NOX. He's posted similar witless meanderings in other threads. Something about West Point being a liberal arts college or some-such. I'm thinking someone forgot to take their meds this morning.

[Logos]

We have come to the point of irreconcilable differences between the MP and non-mp gaming community.

There is no way that MP game play can be made functional and complete in the next 30 days.

Co-op you got your game, but you are and always have been the minority-but I do love you modders.

I returned my copy tonight-there was no value in not being able to clan match the game.

Irreconcilable? Can NOT be reconciled. So it's hopeless. It's over. And you returned your game.

Aw, that's too bad. I would say "so long, pal," but if you follow the path of everyone else who found this game to be a catastrophe/joke/mistake/unplayable, you won't do the sensible thing and leave, devoting your time and energy to something you like, but will instead continue to post here, devoting your time and energy to something that you dislike. Anyway, I'll look for your new posts/threads telling us how bad the game is tomorrow.

See you soon, pal.

[ishikowa]

Well, all this about the game being incomplete just turned me off to buying it. I have no interest in paying $55 to get into a Beta test.... If I'm going to shuvel out enough money to eat on for a week then I want a finished game.

Well I didnt really mean completely 100% done, never going to work on it again, if there is a bug your SOL, status. But I see a trend of game publishers pushing for a fast release date when games need more divelopment. Like what happened with BF2, it took Dice almost 9 months worth of patching to get the game stable enough so that most of the community wasent bitching its ass off. I'd just like to see game publishers put a little more pride in the work they are paying to have done and give the divelopers the time they need to get the game right on the first try, insted of this "ship it out to soon and fix it on the fly" mentality. Granted there will always be bugs in games that are as complex as todays gaming market demands, but would'nt it be nice to have a game released that just needs some minor tweaking to get it just right?

[Trident-za]

I believe that Games like GR and true FPS shooters should be developed in the USA not outsourced.

My best analogy is Soccer, our women play soccer to a world class level, but US men gravitate to aggressive contact sport such as American Football and Hockey, we also play Baseball and Basketball.

We need to take back our games- FPS and the Internet after all they are US made techs and you have mucked it up a bit.

In the last ten years the US has off-shored many industries, but failures like GRAW are raising the awareness of getting it done right the first time. RSE or Red Storm Entertainment is a North Carolina based company, bought by UBI. Maybe UBI needs to release them?

So if you are a European developer be forewarned that your biggest market is growing quite tired of failures i.e. BF2 and GRAW.

Maybe it is perception, or a cultural difference we like human competition and you like the computer.

This is just amazing.... do you honestly believe ONLY an American company is capable of producing something worthwhile?

I'm not sure that there are any "irreconcilable differences" here either... just a potentially fantastic game with some issues that need to be fixed. Believe it or not, there are plenty people who do not consider this game a "failure". I'd go so far as to say that GRAW has provided me, so far, with the most intense and enjoyable SP gaming I've ever had... and I still have years of mods to look forward to, plus years of decent MP (hopefully). A failure? Not exactly....

[Rocky]

Co-op you got your game,

Yeh the end of that sentence should be ".... totally FUBAR'd"

[Pave Low]

Co-op you got your game,

Yeh the end of that sentence should be ".... totally FUBAR'd"

Yeah,

No SA dedicated server...

Only 4 player slots.....

Mission ends when TL dies .....

No Direct IP...

Repetitive intro's ....

Etc....

Sure, we have the game we always wanted

[Zebb]

So since when did GR or any other game become an "us and them" issue ?, thats a sorry statement if i ever read one....

[calius]

Being honest and realistic ... right now, if you purchased the game JUST for MP (COOP or Other styles) and you had clans & were used to that kind of play only & dont give much of a stuff about SP, then I could only agree about the disapointment you (we) are having.

From that standpoint I dont blame anyone getting heated about it.

From the SP standpoint, there are problems & to be addressed and thats a little less of an issue compared to the MP only player.

But ...

MP is going to now be addressed & the patches are working there way to us for both SP & MP fixes that people have fed back through posting in the stickies etc.

So ...

Either hang in for the ride for a while and play something else for the meantime (MP'ers) keep hold of your copies and see where it leads. Or hate it to death and dont budge .. if you do and post here dont just leave it as 1 stream of hate, either dont, or post your hates & add to stickies of wants/missing things that make you hate it. Your not the only one(s) with that point of view and in doing so your chipping in to the list thats needed to make this something more than it currently is off the shelf (the whole reason your posting).

THe whole politcal(ish) part of the US and off shore comments, well, thats another ball game (excuse the pun) altogether. I think you will find alot of western countries following that trend and games is just the tip of the iceberg, but for this forum & thread & the effect on the making of GRAW its neither here nor there.

So since when did GR or any other game become an "us and them" issue ?, thats a sorry statement if i ever read one....

I agree .. pointless argument, we ALL pay the full price for it when we get it so ......

[Dai-San]

NOX you need to grow up and take that egocentric, chest beating, US are the greatest tripe with you. You took the game back so why don't you now cancel your account here as well cos hey, there's no reason for you to hang around with us 'Non US' losers anymore is there.

Basically it makes me sick the way you and some people think the MP side of gaming is the 'Holy Grail' and all Publishers and Developers should count themselves lucky you play their games.

The truth is you are just another branch of the market to exploit and actually a smaller gross income than the SP market. Hell how much do you reckon MP GR players spent over the last 5 years compared to people who play SP and have to buy a new game every couple of months?

And the FPS deathmatch side is small bucks in comparison to the MMORPG market because all the after sales money goes to the Server suppliers rather than the Game manufactureres. Do you need to buy a new copy of BF2 every couple of months to keep playing?

Man you are so far off the mark it aint even funny and I'm just glad you posted that tripe so that everyone got to see just how conceited and obNOXious you were before you slunk off and gathered the toys you threw outta your pram.

Goodbye

You will NOT be missed.

[Iggy.]

There is no way that MP game play can be made functional and complete in the next 30 days.

people keep making statements like this- assuming that GRIN is now developing the rest of the multiplay modes. from screenshots, posts by the dev team, and just looking through the game files, it appears that these other modes were most likely already developed and are now just being finished.

if that's the case, a june patch (30 days or so) is plenty of time.

[brutoid]

We need to take back our games- FPS and the Internet after all they are US made techs and you have mucked it up a bit.

I thought the internet was created by scientists from CERN, in Switzerland?

[Striker-1991]

We need to take back our games- FPS and the Internet after all they are US made techs and you have mucked it up a bit.

I thought the internet was created by scientists from CERN, in Switzerland?

Off topic, but to be correct the Internet was created from the ARPANET a US defense project.

What you mean is the WWW. The World Wide Web was created at the CERN by Tim Berners-Lee a british computer scientist. So very international as it should be.

[Sheldon_AS]

This just shows to me the one sided mentality of an adversarial only player. The "me against everyone else" syndrome.

The thing I still find amazing about the time we live in is being able to play and speak online with people from around the world and never having to leave your house to do it. Our clan has members from the US, Canada, Romania, New Zealand & Barbados. All of them are great team mates.

As a coop player, I think this game and others, played right, help bring us all together.

As far as the COOP player having received the game we wanted, obviously NOX hasn't spent enough time reading others thoughts in the forums. In my opinion as far as who got the bigger shaft, it was the COOP player.

Dont let the door hit you on the way out NOX. Your diatribe wont be missed.

[ruggbutt]

The truth is you are just another branch of the market to exploit and actually a smaller gross income than the SP market. Hell how much do you reckon MP GR players spent over the last 5 years compared to people who play SP and have to buy a new game every couple of months?

So you're one of those guys that doesn't play m/p so you could care less whether or not that side of the GR market is fulfilled. That's a selfish little world you live in.