Where is the COOP fun factor with GRAW?

[Becky89]

After having played on the Alpha Server for possible the last 2-3 years non-stop, I'd have to agree that we need the co-op to have some sort of coherency!

[SimDooD]

GR1 on this engine would have satisfied all. Something to think about isn't it?

EXACTLY!

When I heard what was happening early on, and the fiasco of GR2, I said back then..... "just gimme GR1 with a new engine and I'd be happy"... funnily enough, many agreed.

[ruggbutt]

Everyone that's complaining about features that were left out were (of course) features from the original game.

GR1, this engine, a few more guns and the same gametype choices and there would only be threads about no AA, no dedi server files and replays.

How much would that rock?

[SGT. HACK]

Gee, I said those exact same things a week ago and almost got run out of here. Battlefield 2 is going co-op. My clan and I are going that route. I am done asking for things we will never get. It would take a complete rewrite of the game. We will still play GR1 on our server and forget this mess!!!!!

At the Battlefield 2 web site, DICE keeps the community up to date on the game, thats alot more than I can say about UBI. You dont get a message from some guy with GRIN on vacation telling you how to fix basic problems that should have been fixed before the software went out the door. You guys have a right to complain, GRIN or UBI didnt give you nothing, YOU PAID FOR IT................................My clan will be at the BF2 forums where the game makers listen!

We wanted co-op in BF2, we got it, and alot more........ Sheldon I am with you all the way on this one. check out BF2 co-op for your server. We are going with it! Its no GR1, but its better than the crap GRIN tried to pass off as Ghost Recon...........Let me know when GR4 comes out.

SEE YA!!!!

HACK

Edited May 9, 2006 by SGT. HACK

[Splitz]

GR1 on this engine would have satisfied all. Something to think about isn't it?

Yup. That's all 90% of us asked for. GR with a new paintjob and new engine. We have a long ways to go, but I'm still holding my breath through the first patch. I think that will show us how to measure GRAWs chances at true success.

I want to throw out here that I have bought 4 full copies of GR1+expansions in the first 3-4 years. 2 for my home computers, 1 for bro-in-law b-day, and 1 for friend b-day. A great game keeps on growing and worth continued investment.

Let's see some tremendous taking of names and kicking of azzes GRIN'ers.

[Biro]

Good to see that you guys still keeps Alpha Squad going strong when it comes to coop after all of us "old-ones" stopped playing Ghost Recon. I tried the demo and I read feedback here at GR.net and after that I found out the exact same thing as you are telling in this thread.

Until that is fixed and some modtools is out I rather spend my money on something else then GR:AW.

[Sheldon_AS]

Good to see you pop in and post Biro, hop on the servers and play some GR-1 sometime. I know all of the AlphaSquad members would enjoy that.

Regards,

Sheldon/AlphaSquad

[Sheldon_AS]

I totally agree with the requested feature-adds to the co-op aspect. However, I think the tone of a few posts in this thread from a few hardcore fans, while passionate, are also a bit overzealous and taken the wrong way, could seem ungrateful and threatening to GRIN.

Now of course, I don't mean to burst in here on my third forum post and indirectly call a bunch of you inconsiderate. I'm just a moderate GR fan who's had a lot of fun playing the original co-op modes at small LAN parties I've setup in the past. I've never really interacted with the GR community but I can tell it seems tight-knit, established and dedicated.

I think if the message gets directed to the dev team in a more positive manner and on a more realistic timeline it'll go a much longer way. There's no feasible way to get all the requests, reasonable or otherwise, in by the June patch unless they have been working on them previously and just disabled them for ship time due to insufficient testing.

Anyways, here's another post hoping the original/more interesting/varied co-op modes get in soon.

Inconsiderate, overzealous, ungrateful? I think not.

Critical, honest and to the point? Yes, very much.

It hasnt been UBI or RedStorm that have kept this series going for over 5 years now, it is the very talented Modding community and the dozens of loyal clans and thousands of independent players who have kept this beast going.

We have great expectations for GRAW, after all, we've been waiting for this game since GR-2 was announced, delayed, then cancelled.

The current GRAW as it was released has some great potential to replace GR-1. As it has been stated before in this thread there are some very nice things about this game.

But it also has issues that need to be addressed before it will be embraced by the Ghost Recon faithful.

GRIN/UBI can only take this game so far. At some point it will fall to the GRAW community to keep it alive in the future. Without the proper tools within the game to accomplish that, next year this time we will all be playing something else and talking about what might have been.

Personally, I dont plan on jumping ship too soon. I see enough greatness, however rough it might be, to give GRIN some time to address what we as the playing community want to see in this game.

I hope these comments which are intended to be constructive, dont fall on deaf ears.

Regards,

Sheldon/AlphaSquad

[ASF_TheBizz]

^^

Roger That!!

[Toniezz]

(...)You dont get a message from some guy with GRIN on vacation telling you how to fix basic problems that should have been fixed before the software went out the door. You guys have a right to complain, GRIN or UBI didnt give you nothing, YOU PAID FOR IT (...)

(...)My clan will be at the BF2 forums where the game makers listen! We wanted co-op in BF2, we got it, and alot more........ Sheldon I am with you all the way on this one. check out BF2 co-op for your server. (...)

@ the first quote I hope you are being sarcastic, otherwise you have to learn a lot about the devotion to their work of the employees @ GRIN. Troubleshooting from an internetcafe from their vacation, my god those guys are hardcore .

About your second quote I pulled out, if you talk about developers who listen to the community then say GRIN! They have been very active here on these forums. Saying 'they' don't listen is just plain nonsens. As if BF2 was a co-op game on release, no (don't make me laugh). They apperently doing efforts to change that if I read your post, well very nice . But don't start calling stuff 'crap' and 'nothing' while these developers -whom I and a lot of others with me respect their work and involvement in the community- didn't even get the chance to pollish some minor an some bigger issues with an patch.

This is a great topic and the reactions are very constructive, with yours I have my doubts (no offense). I think everybody has already addressed the most parts of concern regarding to the co-op side of GRAW. Let's wait and see what GRIN comes with in the June patch. After their well deserved vacation I think they will be able to do majestic work!

Go GRIN!

[whc.demo]

graw kinda reminds me of the rushed medal of honor sequel.... Pacific Assault

if anyone has played that game they will all say yer couldve been the greatest but unfortunatly it was riddled with bugs at the time of release, then after that it took almost a year for the first patch to come out...

At least a patch is already on the way within a few weeks of release which indicates to me the devs are listening and wanting to make the great game of graw the best it can be.

it is such a kick ass game, it would be a shame to see it fade fast like PA because of bugs and performance issues.

on that note, ppl arnt going to buy it and support it if their machines cant run it properly, no point in saying yer they will be able to in a year because by then graw may well be forgotten. this game really needs optimization and scalability.

[PsyloSatan]

on that note, ppl arnt going to buy it and support it if their machines cant run it properly, no point in saying yer they will be able to in a year because by then graw may well be forgotten. this game really needs optimization and scalability.

I hear that loud and clear. 2+ months and $1100 later Ill be able to see more than just pitch black map textures. I think when players are willing to spend that much money just to play Ghost Recon (what other game could get people to do that after something like GR2?) they deserve something special and extraordinary. And I am positive I am just a small part of a very large crowd in this situation. Just another example of hard core GR co-op community. So please dont let us down.

[Creatch]

I hope no one takes most of the posts here wrong.

It's not that we are hacking on GRIN for what we have. Nothing could be further from the truth. We are simply stateing our feelings about this game. The work GRIN did is definately the next generation of gaming and most definately top notch work. It's just that most of us ie hardcore Co op players feel a bit well left out in the weather so to speak.

As a hard core Co op player and a member of Alpha Squad we have always tried to bring the hardcore Co op fan and player the best possible gaming experiance at AS. We have always strived to bring something new to the table in all of our missions.

I started as an advisarial player many years ago before I found the real game of GR. The Co op game. No need to worry about hackers, no need to worry about the silly children of all ages just into run n gun. But a bunch of hardcore serious players who love the REAL GR.

I will admit that most if not all of us had much higher expectations for GRAW as far as the Co op side goes. The game we got is definately not for the hardcore Co op player as it is.

We all have hopes that GRIN will address some of these concerns, but in many ways some of what we want may not be possible. Depending on what we get for an editor and what we can and can't do with it will decide the true fate of this game.

I do truly love alot of the aspects of the game, but that being said there are some things I truly hate as with all games reguardless of the title.

Myself I will not pass full judgement on this game untill such time as we find out just how playable we can make this game for serious Co op.

But for all the hardcore, rest assured we at AS will continue to strive to bring the best Co op available be it GRAW or GR.

[ruggbutt]

I don't play coop, to me it's no fun to shoot AI which are infinitely more stupid and slower than human players. But, I too want to see you guys get what you want. GR meant different things to each one of us, but it meant everything to all of us.

There should be 9 player squads for coop. There should be an XML file to edit which currently isn't there. I've been "corrected" over and over again (before the release of GRAW) that this was the case. We have a copy on our server. I've been thru the files. It's not there. Someone either cannot read or comprehend what they read, or we were lied to.

Fix the coop GRIN. I'll post about what else needs to be fixed in other threads specific to them. But fix the coop for these guys who have waited 5 years for another GR.

[jay316]

I tried the demo and I read feedback here at GR.net and after that I found out the exact same thing as you are telling in this thread.

Until that is fixed and some modtools is out I rather spend my money on something else then GR:AW.

Im pretty much where Biro is. I'm waiting on the patch or patches now to see if this game will be worth me putting money into my system and buying the game. As it stands now without the patches improving it i will likely not buy it so everything is riding on the patch (patches?) at least for me.

[jansmarj]

Well what can I say but that the others before me have spoken for me. As a die hard coop player I'd hate to see GRAW go to waist with coop like it is at the present (however nice a lot of the other stuff looks). For me goes no coop no playing.

I certainly do hope that there are no serious obstacles in the heart of GRAW that will prevent these issues being solved in the (very) near future.

[rossiski]

I don't play coop, to me it's no fun to shoot AI which are infinitely more stupid and slower than human players...But, I too want to see you guys get what you want. GR meant different things to each one of us, but it meant everything to all of us.

Thanks for the support Rugg. I used to be a strict TvT or deathmatch player. One night, I decided to listen in on Alpha Squad carrying out a mission. That was all it took was one night hearing what they were doing. I haven't gone back.

I invite you over to check out Friday, Saturday, or Sunday nights at the Alpha Squad public GR1 server. The AI has been greatly changed by the talented AS modders and other contributors. They are no longer stupid and slow and will cream anyone who makes a mistake. Please believe me when I say the AS public server hosts the toughest, most interesting missions out there. They take coop to the most extreme level imaginable.

I have had the priviledge of playing alongside with Sheldon, Robalo, SimDood, Creatch, Bueghler and all the other Alphas on that public server. Honestly, I have never experienced a more serious, professional gameplay experience in my life. Give coop a chance to be played the "way it's meant to be played" and try it out with Alpha Squad or any of the other die-hard coop servers. You may change your mind about coop. It certainly changed mine.

I seriously hope that GRiN will consider changing the coop style play in GRAW. In the opinion of this humble poster, coop is the most important part of the Ghost Recon series. Please, please, please don't leave us stranded.

[silent_op]

I don't play coop, to me it's no fun to shoot AI which are infinitely more stupid and slower than human players. But, I too want to see you guys get what you want. GR meant different things to each one of us, but it meant everything to all of us.

There should be 9 player squads for coop. There should be an XML file to edit which currently isn't there. I've been "corrected" over and over again (before the release of GRAW) that this was the case. We have a copy on our server. I've been thru the files. It's not there. Someone either cannot read or comprehend what they read, or we were lied to.

Fix the coop GRIN. I'll post about what else needs to be fixed in other threads specific to them. But fix the coop for these guys who have waited 5 years for another GR.

How nice of you to support to the CO-OP side of MP. Of course you had to bash us then mask it with brotherly support.

Well, I hope GR:AW delivers everything that all players want, even the run-n-gun crowd. When that happens, we'll all know we have found that "something special" once again.

silent_op

[SimDooD]

The offer has always been open for Grin to come and spend time with us on this aspect of gameplay. Whether it be on the public server, or on our private server, they and anyone else are more than welcome.

Heck, change yer name and leave the microphone turned off in TS, it's ok.... just as long as you follow the mission leader, who has the best intention of not only trying to help the team complete the objectives, but get everyone else out alive.

Just as a bit of information that may assist Grin in trying to understand the Co-Op (Players vs AI on our server) scene for future development, I would be fairly accurate in stating that the makeup of players would roughly be as follows...

- Aged 30 and over (heck, I'm over 21...... *cough* 40ish) and we have players who have retired!

- Good proportion of players have done/are doing miltary service in some form

- Take a very serious approach to doing missions with regards to code of conduct and following a chain of command

- Respect each other a lot

- Have fun and take satisfaction in knowing a job has been done well

I remember that we ran a poll of what type of missions players wanted to see on our server, and if I recall, most preferred the stealth type with a small component of action. And it's interesting, because ultimately THIS was what the Ghosts were all about. They were NOT an overt suppressive force that openly went about their business in an open warfare scenario. THIS is the way they have been portayed in GRAW and almost got portayed in GR2.

The Ghosts were originally there to fulfill a specific role, where others dared not/could not go without compromising themselves and their countries. THAT is why they are called GHOSTS.

I think that the whole aura of who the Ghosts are and what they do has been lost in the effort to make a game a big seller with lots of eye-candy and slick moves, without any consideration to the Ghost legacy, and that is sad.

And that is what we strive to maintain on our server and the missions we run; The legend that is the Ghost.

[silent_op]

I agree with you Sim. I also think GRIN must understand this as well. Everything you mentioned is obvious to us, surely it must be obvious to them as well.

It is sad that the Ghosts are no longer Ghosts. However a good CO-OP team can play the part of the Ghosts using more stealth over firepower. Even in GR:AW's current pre-Patch condition, a serious CO-OP team can make the GR:AW Ghosts more like the Ghosts of legend.

silent_op

[thrush213]

leaning while prone is just stupid.

heck, rolling in place of lean would be much better

Edited May 11, 2006 by thrush213

[Lightspeed]

ALPHASQUAD COOP IS THE FOSHIZZLE!!

I played TvT for years and years and thought my GR days were winding up until I discovered the Alpha Squad "The way its meant to be played" principles and corresponding missions. Thanks to Alpha and the fantastic modders out there.

As far as AI being stoopid - they will never be human thinking and acting players, BUT, it doesnt matter. Why?

Because AI make up only one portion of a carefully scripted mission. Its the mission objectives, the maps, the team cooperation, the enemy reinforcements and heavy weapons which combine to produce extremely challenging and difficult missions.

Sure, one on one AI may amount to nothing, but in carefully scripted and intelligent missions the AI can seem at times nearly imp[ossible to defeat.

So the rant that COOP sucks cos the AI is hopeless, is a gross misconception. The brilliant modders out there have made sure of that. And IMO its why COOP scripted missions can be and are often better then doing TvTs. In a TvT you're fairly restricted in the gametype, its LMS, or Siege or Domination. However, its not diffuse charges placed on oil pipelines high up in a wintery mountain, and at the same time send another squad off to locate and coordinate an airstrike on an enemybase, before heading off as one unit to destroy a Tank Camp and eliminate the enemy leader, before finally extracting at a remote loaction, and all the while avoiding multiple tangoes (Misty Mountain Hop).

COOP should not be underrated or undervalued - IMO well-crafted COOP is the key to GRAW. GRIN, do yourself a favour and get yourself to Alpha and experience a realistic FPS 'the way its meant to be played'.

Lighty out.

Edited May 11, 2006 by PoW_LigHtsPeEd

[silent_op]

^^^^

silent_op

[griz]

Not much to say except that I agree with everyone else here. Cancelled my order of GR:AW with the intention of checking back after El Patchio. $50 is too much money to spend on hopes and prayers.

[Sheldon_AS]

The offer has always been open for Grin to come and spend time with us on this aspect of gameplay. Whether it be on the public server, or on our private server, they and anyone else are more than welcome.

Heck, change yer name and leave the microphone turned off in TS, it's ok.... just as long as you follow the mission leader, who has the best intention of not only trying to help the team complete the objectives, but get everyone else out alive.

Just as a bit of information that may assist Grin in trying to understand the Co-Op (Players vs AI on our server) scene for future development, I would be fairly accurate in stating that the makeup of players would roughly be as follows...

- Aged 30 and over (heck, I'm over 21...... *cough* 40ish) and we have players who have retired!

- Good proportion of players have done/are doing miltary service in some form

- Take a very serious approach to doing missions with regards to code of conduct and following a chain of command

- Respect each other a lot

- Have fun and take satisfaction in knowing a job has been done well

I remember that we ran a poll of what type of missions players wanted to see on our server, and if I recall, most preferred the stealth type with a small component of action. And it's interesting, because ultimately THIS was what the Ghosts were all about. They were NOT an overt suppressive force that openly went about their business in an open warfare scenario. THIS is the way they have been portayed in GRAW and almost got portayed in GR2.

The Ghosts were originally there to fulfill a specific role, where others dared not/could not go without compromising themselves and their countries. THAT is why they are called GHOSTS.

I think that the whole aura of who the Ghosts are and what they do has been lost in the effort to make a game a big seller with lots of eye-candy and slick moves, without any consideration to the Ghost legacy, and that is sad.

And that is what we strive to maintain on our server and the missions we run; The legend that is the Ghost.

Well said Sim...