GR:AW Dev. Chat Summary

[Kurtz]

Thanks, Bo. This sounds great, like if you screw up, reinforcements come in fast. I like the sound of squad assaults, snipers and heavy weapons. Good stuff!

[desertranger12]

i know the AI is gonna be awesome, but 20 still seems a little light to me

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This sounds a little light, GR ranged from 20 to about 50 or so. Doesn't sound right.

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So you guys don't expect the reduction of the number of Ghosts to result in a reduction of the number of enemies? I reckon you're not amongst the people who have welcomed the "covert and stealthy as it should be" statement from GRIN, and people who oppose to "open war" gameplay - because your standpoint here contradicts that. A fight against >20 enemies sounds more like a bullet-bonanza blood bath than a spear-head covert operation.

I hope no person opts for realism while at the same time expecting a four man Ghost team to take on >20 enemies at once - cause that'd a sure be a very paradoxial standpoint. I hear a faint "arcade" whispering from within this expectation.

Personally, I think the gameplay will be tighter with fewer soldiers on both sides - how you position and use your teammates becomes even more important, and the enemies are few enough for you to have a fair chance of keeping their positions in mind when making tactical decisions. If the AI is as cunning as we all hope it will be, they don't need to compensate the NPC:s lack of tactical thinking by increasing their numbers.

In other words, people need to stop thinking that meeting 20 enemies in GRAW will be the same as meeting 20 enemies in GR1 - because the premises are completely different now:

1. The enemy AI is a lot more cunning now

and

2. You don't have as many Ghosts at your disposal.

I don't think kurtz, desert ranger or others think that a firefight with 20 enemies at the same time is something light or more enemies are needed per firefight. The confusion has arisen because some thought that the total number of enemies in a large map will be restricted to 20. That is extremely unlikely and Ulf must have meant maximum possible enemies per firefight. Even if it is 20 enemies per map I would still be overjoyed because that would mean that the enemies are of the highest quality.

As far as enemies per firefight goes, my personal preference would be lesser in number but highly realistic and intelligent. Killing even one enemy should be a deal in the hardest setting. If you remember ( assuming you are silent sniper by looking at your sig ), we had a very long discussion in the official ubi forum about the number of enemies per map, and almost everybody wanted much fewer enemies than GR2 and all of them wanted covert missions as opposed to war missions with tons of enemies and over the top action. This is an issue on which most of us concur.

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THANK YOU!

[DBrown918]

Oh by the way guys, if there are only going to be 20 maximum enemies per firefight, haha. Well sit and think about that for a few moments.

Yes, that means that the AI is going to take up a hell of a lot of resources, which means we are all in for a little challenge me thinks .

You know that they are the ones testing this out and knowing where the boundaries are on what they can do with the technology at hand, so if 20 maximum enemies is enough for modern technology, i'm guessing we are going to be seeing some drastic improvements in AI, enough to make my skinny ass stay behind that tree for an extended period of time at least.

[KRP 56]

He of course meant 20 ppl plus their support units fighting the ghosts AT THE SAME TIME.

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Glad that's cleared up as 20 enemies on a 600x600 map wouldn't have did it for me.

[Tortfeaser]

One thing I wanted to add is the conventional wisdom is that if you are attacking a unit in a hasty defensive position, or a prepared defensive position, you need three times the firepower - so 3 attackers for every 1 fortified defender....so if you have realistic AI, technically 2 AI ought to be a real challenge for a fireteam of 4, and 20 ought to be misery.

[Dai-San]

Here's a question thats just occured to me that I would love to get answered (Mainly for reassurance).

As has been stated there are many movement options over and above the lean around corners that we have in GR1 such as sliding/diving etc.

What worries me is the possible exploiting of this as in BF2 and the phenomenon of what they call 'Dolphin diving' where a character is running and jumps and hits prone or CS style Bunny Hopping.

Someone please tell me that these movements will be energy dependant or at least time restricted so you can't just jump around like a demented puppet.

[DBrown918]

Here's a question thats just occured to me that I would love to get answered (Mainly for reassurance).

As has been stated there are many movement options over and above the lean around corners that we have in GR1 such as sliding/diving etc.

What worries me is the possible exploiting of this as in BF2 and the phenomenon of what they call 'Dolphin diving' where a character is running and jumps and hits prone or CS style Bunny Hopping.

Someone please tell me that these movements will be energy dependant or at least time restricted so you can't just jump around like a demented puppet.

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I'm pretty sure the good fellas at RSE and GRIN aren't dumb enough to make a movement exploitable like those dumb ^@^^'s at EA. Also I think these movements may be limited to entering an area of cover? Such as diving behind a car or wall. Plus in the original, they had it so when you went prone and got back up it took a second.

[[WOLF]Lizard]

I like what i'm hearing, Thanks to Bo for clearing up that little tidbit. I'm gonna actually let myself get optomistic and even excited about this whole thing now ... Keep up the killer work.

Lizard.

[RatoN]

just saw this

[1:13pm] [1:13pm] <Ulf> We love all you fans, except for WhiteKnight. We only like him. =D

[ERIXX]

snow and jungle again????????? Many games show snow and jungle.

How about Afganistan? Maps featuring the Gigant Buddhas (or remains)... Himalayas, deserts, ancient cities...mountain passes... heat and cold (some snow the options are infinite...

Or The Balkans, Russia and Turkey.... (old european cities, Istanbul, old Troy, greek islands....)

Africa (but not jungle): around Egypt, Lybia Sudan and Kenya (piramides, Nile, maybe Yemen.... a nice plot in that area...

Another idea is a mission consisting in protecting a humanitarian aid mission in Aganistan after the earth quake (Is it possible the model and create a earthquake HAPPENING in a game. Several earthquakes during a series of days.... while you are in jeeps driving tru the area, fighting insurgents trying to steal the aid trucks....

Edited December 3, 2005 by ERIXX

[RatoN]

Agreed

We didn’t have time to think about it. They caught us off guard plain and simple, as we were in an ''Ask The Question Mode'', we did not expect to be questioned. That seemed to me as a diversion to allow the devs to slip out the back door, avoiding more questions. It was just chaos! –anyway

The next dev chat will be better for the questions asked, and the answers.

Bienvenu ERIXX

[buddhiraja73]

I also agree Erixx. I would especially like North Africa with the yellow stone villages.

[RatoN]

do you like my idea of Aliens? (The movie)

Like... sanding a small group of highly trained, bad ######, one man gang type to another planet to take care of a huge problem?

Noooo not DOOM3, something smarter, more tactical.

I mean if such a situation would arise, the Ghosts would be the one to take care of it right? Do you see the resemblance with the Ghosts.

boi, WK just gonna beat me up for this Aliens thing

[DBrown918]

do you like my idea of Aliens? (The movie)

Like... sanding a small group of highly trained, bad ######, one man gang type to another planet to take care of a huge problem?

Noooo not DOOM3, something smarter, more tactical.

I mean if such a situation would arise, the Ghosts would be the one to take care of it right? Do you see the resemblance with the Ghosts.

boi, WK just gonna beat me up for this Aliens thing

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"boi, WK just gonna beat me up for this Aliens thing"

[Poita]

I saw a docu about the Seals and they mentioned that one use of such special forces is for short term conflict not drawn out. Thy give a massive amount of fire power in short period that gives the impression of them bing a much larger force. So 4 should be able to fight like 12 or more for a short time if coordinated. I dont know if this applies to attacking fixed positions.

Map types. I think that Jungle maps are very very boring. I'm not sure why I like FarCry, Joint Ops, H&D2, Vietcong . . but i just feel that after the European WW2 fad got a few years old lots of game houses moved to the tropical scene. I always hated the jungle maps. Very uniform and bland despite the colourful nature of them. Maybe it's because i'm from a temperate climate. I prefer forest, desert or snow.

For me the ideal GR1 maps were Villiage, Stronghold, Big river etc. Who knows how the Diesel engine will do in making forest like maps. Be great to see though.

[Colin]

The fact we were asked what we would like would say that it is in the idea stage may be a bit further.

UBI must be sanctioning this which is very good news indeed.

Poita made a decent point re Jugles.

I must admit I have never been over joyed at most developers attempts at this type of format.

However this is GRIN we are talking about and the look of some of the stuff thats coming from them now and in the past is way beyond most stuff I have seen before, so we could be in for a treat.

I spent some time in Belize years ago and I loved the jungle, so much to see and do, its a shame our jungles are fast disapearing.

You can see it now GRIN spends 1 month in jungle getting ready to do expansion pack for GRAW.

Colin

[desertranger12]

You can see it now GRIN spends 1 month in jungle getting ready to do expansion pack for GRAW. 

Colin

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lol

[buddhiraja73]

You can see it now GRIN spends 1 month in jungle getting ready to do expansion pack for GRAW. 

Colin

GRIN would perhaps prefer the Mediterranean beaches for the GRAW expansion pack.

[WhiteKnight77]

You can see it now GRIN spends 1 month in jungle getting ready to do expansion pack for GRAW. 

Colin

GRIN would perhaps prefer the Mediterranean beaches for the GRAW expansion pack.

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LOL, the.ronin would be drooling all over instead of shooting the enemy.

[silent_op]

I'm not sure if this has been covered, but what is the current word on a Modding Tool (IGOR)?

This game is as good as deleted after 6 months if we can not mod this (at least) as much as GR1.

Did GRIN/UBI ever confirm whether or not we can turn HUD features on and off?

I don't like the over the top (xbox version) clutter. I also hope we don't have to see green diamonds floating next to ghosts.

Did GRIN/UBI give a solid team count for co-op play?

I noticed that the screens sometimes show "Team A". This leads me to guess that there could be a Team B, and Team C. Maybe each Team will have 3 squads?

In general I like what I have started to see and hear so far for PC GRAW, but I'm still not entirely sold yet.

silent_op

[DaSmerg]

Well I guess colour me less than impressed.

No solid word on an SDK other than can't talk about it and it's being worked on. Not good and warning bells are going off. Been down this road with UBI and other Tom Clancy's titles before with rather lack luster AND much delayed promise fulfilling results for UBI.

No solid word on anti-cheat for MP other than can't talk about it and it's being worked on. Again, warning bells are going off cuz UBI and gamers have been down this path before, a few times in fact.

No straight word on basic customization...like turning HUD features on and off?

No word on even a ballpark on minimum specs to run the game? Errr, wasn't this game supposed to be done and delayed by the X-360 development ?

This is, by far, the most informative Q&A we've seen yet. It served to shed some more light on the game.

But this gamer is left still lacking answers on some pretty important game questions.

Anyone working for UBI on a Tom Clancy's title saying '...trust us, we're working on it...'? That sounds vaguely familiar .

[Tortfeaser]

Well I guess colour me less than impressed.

No solid word on an SDK other than can't talk about it and it's being worked on.  Not good and warning bells are going off.  Been down this road with UBI and other Tom Clancy's titles before with rather lack luster AND much delayed promise fulfilling results for UBI.

No solid word on anti-cheat for MP other than can't talk about it and it's being worked on.  Again, warning bells are going off cuz UBI and gamers have been down this path before, a few times in fact.

No straight word on basic customization...like turning HUD features on and off?

No word on even a ballpark on minimum specs to run the game?  Errr, wasn't this game supposed to be done and delayed by the X-360 development  ?

This is, by far, the most informative Q&A we've seen yet.  It served to shed some more light on the game.

But this gamer is left still lacking answers on some pretty important game questions.

Anyone working for UBI on a Tom Clancy's title saying '...trust us, we're working on it...'?  That sounds vaguely familiar  .

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do we know each other from somewhere? Woops, I was wrong, sorry! you just reminded me of an old friend...

haha.

Edited December 3, 2005 by Tortfeaser

[Tortfeaser]

Thanks, Bo. This sounds great, like if you screw up, reinforcements come in fast. I like the sound of squad assaults, snipers and heavy weapons. Good stuff!

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uh oh...Kurtz I had the complete opposite interpreation of what he said....i heard that if you screw up, THEIR heavy weapons, snipers, and other assets will be there to make you a greasy spot on the map. I don't feel right asking Bo for clarification on such minor points, so maybe we will have to wait on this one?....

[desertranger12]

Well I guess colour me less than impressed.

No solid word on an SDK other than can't talk about it and it's being worked on.  Not good and warning bells are going off.  Been down this road with UBI and other Tom Clancy's titles before with rather lack luster AND much delayed promise fulfilling results for UBI.

No solid word on anti-cheat for MP other than can't talk about it and it's being worked on.  Again, warning bells are going off cuz UBI and gamers have been down this path before, a few times in fact.

No straight word on basic customization...like turning HUD features on and off?

No word on even a ballpark on minimum specs to run the game?  Errr, wasn't this game supposed to be done and delayed by the X-360 development  ?

This is, by far, the most informative Q&A we've seen yet.  It served to shed some more light on the game.

But this gamer is left still lacking answers on some pretty important game questions.

Anyone working for UBI on a Tom Clancy's title saying '...trust us, we're working on it...'?  That sounds vaguely familiar  .

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got some good point there

you have to think, maybe GRIN isnt being allowed to tell us some of this stuff, seems to be theyre telling us all they can, well see in due time...

[WhiteKnight77]

Take a look back at any RSE created game, there was no SDK released for it either. After talking with a certain dev from RSE, I can understand why one would not be released.

Everyone talks about how bad cheating is in such and such a game. Yes, cheating is in GR, R6 and RS, but imagine if the cheat makers had source code as they do for other games that have had SDK's released, even more cheating. Do people want more cheating or do they want just some modding tools the way RSE released them. Personally, I would rather see modding tools, even if it is just a sandbox type editor.