An example of Super AI

[Evilducky]

Have you guys ever played farcry?? I still think the enemy AI in that was pretty goood. They wernt always aware of your position and could easily throw them off track with a rock. It was pretty cool.

Edited July 24, 2007 by Evilducky

[Rocky]

Have you guys ever played farcry?? I still think the enemy AI in that was pretty goood. They wernt always aware of your position and could easily throw them off track with a rock. It was pretty cool.

You know what would be really extremely cool? To test the enemy AI in a few different games, trying to set up exactly the same situ in each one, and record how the enemy reacts - see who has the best enemy AI in FPS world

[Evilducky]

Well.. That could be hard. The new Crysis game coming out might have some really good ai from the sounds of it. Also the new AI in the starwars games seems to be unreal.

Not just AI, but the new starwars games has some really cool stuff coming into it.

DMM (Digital Molecular Matter)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4EF9IkhAOo

Also Euphoria's (new AI system)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVpLWnF3MWA

Could you imagine these 2 things together in the ghost recon advanced warfighter series?

[TRC]

On the quarry map, on normal, I was using the barrett and when I shot 1 at max distance, a buddy of his wheeled and fired with a g36k and wounded me--this was on normal. I was always a proponet for more enemies on harder settings, not uber shooting skills. In graw 1, under group mgr, you could adjust their uber skills some, haven't found where to do that yet in graw2.

[Rocky]

Well.. That could be hard. The new Crysis game coming out might have some really good ai from the sounds of it. Also the new AI in the starwars games seems to be unreal.

Not just AI, but the new starwars games has some really cool stuff coming into it.

DMM (Digital Molecular Matter)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4EF9IkhAOo

Also Euphoria's (new AI system)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVpLWnF3MWA

Could you imagine these 2 things together in the ghost recon advanced warfighter series?

I hadn't seen that 2nd one before, pretty cool. I had no idea the star wars games we so advanced.

Back to the dam, something new this time

The top guy turned as soon as I peeked (bad), but after I dropped him the second guy turned, could not see me, so ran off in through the doorway to take cover. That was more like a real event That was on Normal.

In a really sad kind of way, I'm finding testing out the different reactions played out on this same scenario over and over quite intruiging.

[Sleepdoc-iBeta]

Well.. That could be hard. The new Crysis game coming out might have some really good ai from the sounds of it. Also the new AI in the starwars games seems to be unreal.

Not just AI, but the new starwars games has some really cool stuff coming into it.

DMM (Digital Molecular Matter)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4EF9IkhAOo

Also Euphoria's (new AI system)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVpLWnF3MWA

Could you imagine these 2 things together in the ghost recon advanced warfighter series?

Very interesting tech demos. thanks for pointing us there.

[Rocky]

Here's the first test - Easy. If you want to know what it's like to fight the AI on Easy, watch this.

GRAW 2 AI on Easy.

[BigBumpy]

Playing Hardcore, few AI things I've noticed, bad and good:

- loading save games changes AI state sort of. Example

is I'll be in crouched position facing an enemy nest

and they don't shoot at me. I'll Quicksave. Load

Quicksave and immediately the enemy sees and fires at

me BUT the issue seems to be the save game loads me

as now standing, not crouched.

- crouch works almost too well i.e. you can pretty

much dance and move around crouched all day 20 yards

in front of most enemies but soon as you stand up

you're instantly killed

- same can be said about standing and peeking around a

corner vs. crouching and peeking. SuperAI sees you

and kills ya standing but can't see you crouching for beans.

- prone seems to be no better than crouch in

stealthing around the enemy. Not to

mention prone still has the issue of can't aim up or

down far enough.

- sprinting to try and quick cross a city street is

near impossible, AI locks on you and simply kills you

instantly every time

- enemy AI do react to shot very nearby co workers and shots

fired past their head but how they react is rather unrealistic

All in all, I think the AI is well done.

I think the easiest and largest improvement that would fix some AI issue complaints the most is to simply change some enemy response time values, enemy hitpoint quantity and enemy accuracy values; each adjusted according to distance.

This would of course in effect make the AI and game easier so an increase of enemy quantity would be needed to compensate.

Once you start thinking about it, one can easily see all the compromises they had to make in order to try and balance the game. It can get really hard to make the game challenging yet not frustrating or SuperHuman at the same time.

If GRIN made all the roof top snipers less eagle eyed and quick, they might as well remove them from the roof cause they would be nothing but fodder. It's only fair they can take you out in one shot from way out just like you can right?

Here's the first test - Easy. If you want to know what it's like to fight the AI on Easy, watch this.

GRAW 2 AI on Easy.

Nifty. Just to be clear, I assume you are in the Standing position in each of these videos you are posting right?

Edited July 25, 2007 by BigBumpy

[Sleepdoc-iBeta]

- sprinting to try and quick cross a city street is

near impossible, AI locks on you and simply kills you

instantly every time

I'm wondering if you have tested this after you threw out smoke to occlude their view. How is smoke working?

[BigBumpy]

- sprinting to try and quick cross a city street is

near impossible, AI locks on you and simply kills you

instantly every time

I'm wondering if you have tested this after you threw out smoke to occlude their view. How is smoke working?

Funny you should mention this because this is the exact and only way I was able to get across the street. So yes, smoke works well and I learned to carry it with me on most missions.

I wish you could command your AI to lay down smoke and grenades but maybe in GRAW3??

[Satoh]

Just another visual example of the AI doing their thing. (link is a 1.5mb .wmv file)

[Rpghard]

Here's the first test - Easy. If you want to know what it's like to fight the AI on Easy, watch this.

GRAW 2 AI on Easy.

LOL never tried other level went straight to hardcore!Well mean that's good news for noobs and will be great when I do some map testing to ...I will rambo map to test trigger... until hardcore stay like it is...now we can say that easy is really easy now Cause in GRAW [GR] coop on easy doesn't affect 'heavy snipers' the deadliest .With the AI don't forget the human Intel who put the AI on map.

[BigBumpy]

Just another visual example of the AI doing their thing. (link is a 1.5mb .wmv file)

Wow, that shows the SuperAI very well. Hard to tell from vid but I assume there were no other enemy AI in the area that could have shot you from your left or right.

[Rocky]

Nifty. Just to be clear, I assume you are in the Standing position in each of these videos you are posting right?

I start crouched and leaning, then I moved out in to the open, then I stood up. He still could not hit me.

I'll be doing the exact seem routine with the other difficulty levels to show the difference in AI behaviour.

Here's the first test - Easy. If you want to know what it's like to fight the AI on Easy, watch this.

GRAW 2 AI on Easy.

LOL never tried other level went straight to hardcore!

Yeh me too, that's why I was interested to record all the difficulty levels and see how they compare.

[Toniezz]

On the dam mission I sighted two watchtower guards, both facing away from me. I was well out, against the rock face leaning out, with another rock outcrop and also the pipeline between me and the watchtower, in otherwords, I was hardly sitting out in the middle of the road.

After dropping the top guard, the bottom guard managed to turn 180, get a bead on me, and fire off two rounds, both on target (ie. me), all in the second it took me to lower my aim a fraction.

4Mb DivX Movie

Apperently you weren't made of the same 'Rocky' material as your background

J/K.

[Rocky]

On the dam mission I sighted two watchtower guards, both facing away from me. I was well out, against the rock face leaning out, with another rock outcrop and also the pipeline between me and the watchtower, in otherwords, I was hardly sitting out in the middle of the road.

After dropping the top guard, the bottom guard managed to turn 180, get a bead on me, and fire off two rounds, both on target (ie. me), all in the second it took me to lower my aim a fraction.

4Mb DivX Movie

Apperently you weren't made of the same 'Rocky' material as your background

J/K.

I can take that.

Didn't catch any GRAW maps named after "Toniezz" though.

[Toniezz]

^^ nope, thats something I will never beat I guess

You still Rock the world!

Though, very interresting that the AI seem to react different almost evvery time? Thats a plus but noticing you from that distance with their backs towards you is just plain rediculous. Maybe their 'eyesight arcs' aren't set correctly (if GRAW AI uses them). I know GR AI has 180 degrees sight.

Or do they have highly sensitive cams on their back?

[mwgfghost]

My least favorite display of AI is Joining Forces. It's like they're jacked up on steroids and ate their wheaties. Doesn't help that I can't see any of em because I'm a squad member instead of squad leader in Campaign COOP because for some reason they wanna make me suffer by not being able to bring up the tactical map as a squad member(point man) or even see the red diamonds of the enemies spotted by the TL, AI, or Drone.

[Evilducky]

Hey Rocky are you playing it on the sp campaign or the campaign coop? If it was the sp campaign than i haven't gotten that far yet. *to be honest I haven't gotten past the first mission*. Ill try and get there on the dam level on the coop campaign and see the results.

[Satoh]

Just another visual example of the AI doing their thing. (link is a 1.5mb .wmv file)

Wow, that shows the SuperAI very well. Hard to tell from vid but I assume there were no other enemy AI in the area that could have shot you from your left or right.

I edited the clip down to just show the pertinent part, but there was nothing behind me or to my left. Where that .50 cal sits there were more bad guys (out of sight to the right of the MG). I was leaning around a rock formation on my right to aim at the .50 gunner.

That was my second attempt from that same location on the coop_timber map... the same exact thing, in the same location, happened on an earlier map rotation attempt. I had Fraps running this time to catch it.

Edited July 25, 2007 by Satoh

[V.P.]

Here's the first test - Easy. If you want to know what it's like to fight the AI on Easy, watch this.

GRAW 2 AI on Easy.

interesting, thanks for sharing.

[buddhiraja73]

This is why I am asking, has AI really come on at all since 2001? They're still pulling the same stunts as they did in GR1.

I don't see the AI doing anything different, or better, than they did in GR1.

First, I must say that my gaming pc is down and I haven't played Graw2 yet. So, I am commenting on my experience of playing Graw 1.

Rocky, you have a very valid point there. The improvements since 2001 have indeed been much slower than we expected, in the AI department. But there is one area in which the Graw AI is much better than [GR]. They are much more self preserving, can be suppressed into cover and use the edges of cover much better, like peeking and shooting after taking firing positions near the edges of covers. In [GR], this aspect was totally lacking.

I personally don't mind AIs making occasional mistakes but certain areas need a lot of attention like

- Group behavior, formation and tactical movement. Enemy groups move tactically, cover each other, have their firing arcs defined and stack up where necessary.

- Realistic qualities , the lack of which you have shown in your vid. Unrealistic detection abilities, too good or too bad ( like enemies spotting me in the dark like Graw 1, seeing me through foliage, automatically kowing where i am, even if I have changed my position behind cover, not being aware of a firefight 50 m away and not noticing buddies being killed next to him etc. ), unrealistic reaction times etc. really need to go away in 2007.

- Even in 2007, we are not seeing enemy groups using significantly better strategies and tactics than they did in [GR] in 2001. Infact, the enemies in Island Thunder were much more aggresive and attacking than GRAW 1.

[Rocky]

...and use the edges of cover much better, like peeking and shooting after taking firing positions near the edges of covers. In [GR], this aspect was totally lacking..

Thank you. You are correct, on GR the enemy AI did not peek, in GRAW 2 you can see this frequently and it is quite impressive.

We got one improvement! Any more?

Though, very interresting that the AI seem to react different almost evvery time?

Well, not really. That is one reason for my testing, to see if they do. Each movie I post (the various difficulty settings) is one movie of three that I actually record for the particular difficulty setting. In each one the enemy reacts the exact same.

I was hoping that for each different difficulty level we would see the AI react differently, but I think this excercise may prove that the only difference is the shot accuracy.

The way I had hoped, and would really expect to see enemy reaction under fire, briefly would be something like this..

Easy - Return inaccurate fire, no movement

Normal - Return wounding fire, some positioning change (stance etc)

Difficult - Return accurate fire, repositioning, take cover

Hardcore - Return lethal[*] fire, take cover, flanking action

Am I asking too much here? I don't think so, as I keep saying, we had all that 6 years ago.

[*] but not superhuman!

[Lethal.Ambition]

Sure, there's times I've walked right past an enemy AI and he doesn't notice me, and there's times I've used the tac map to spy on them and they amaze me. I was playing Hardcore yesterday on lone wolf and I go so punished I couldn't believe it. Three times in a row, all differently. But that';s another story.

There were to guards patrolling an area and I dropped one them very silently. The other one didn't even hear it. But when he turned around (I was in cover, watching in tac map) and saw his buddy on the floor he immediately ran away and as I watched him he came back later and then ran away again, as if looking for me.

On another occasion, I had taken out the roadblock (Oh, this is Sierra) and I was hiding behind a shanty house because I was almost dead and I was using the tac map to know where they were coming from. I dropped two or three that came in alone until finally three of them came at the same time. One came from behind me and the other two came in front of me. One in the distance and the other up close. I wish I could have recorded it so you could believe me. On the tac map the guy from behind didn't advance much, but the two in front of me took baby steps ahead. Finally, the one closer to me showed around the corner, I killed him and then the guy in the distance became visible. We both opened fire but I killed him first, and as I turned around there was the other dude staring right at me. It was slow motion like.

Needless to say I died. But boy it was some exhilarating five minutes. When the AI behaves like that I can easily overlook other things.

[Rocky]

Good story mate, I love that stuff.