"shabby way Britain treats its fallen heroes"

[Pave Low]

Pictures that should shame us all reveal the shabby way Britain treats its fallen heroes

They serve the same Queen, fight the same foe and lay down their lives with equal valour and sacrifice.

But when the fallen heroes of Canada and Britain come home, the welcome is very different.

At airbases in both countries there is only sombre respect.

But today The Mail on Sunday publishes extraordinary pictures that contrast the final road journeys: in Canada, there is a police escort and crowds line the route; in Britain, the hearses are denied outriders and go unremarked.

and for any British members who might wish to help try to get this practice changed, there is an E-Petition at http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/escortforheroes/

*** Please keep posts Respectful, On-topic and Non-political ***

[WhiteKnight77]

I find it rather deplorable that the police there are as callus as they are about this. Traffic should not be holding up those who have served. All my friends in the UK should be outraged over this.

[Parabellum]

A total shame.

[Colin]

Pave, thank you for the link and information, I felt sad to see the 2 out along side each other, and to be honest ashamed of myself for not knowing or wanting to know, I know our dead come back but have always failed to follow up such things.

I lead as many others here a work family life and what goes on out side this sometimes becomes irrevelavent, which is a wrong way of leading a life, certainly not the way I was brought up.

I blame myself and others for not careing enough about our fallen service men and women, but I will change how I deal with this in the future.

Careing enough to post such information is why I respect the staff that work here.

Thanks.

Colin

I forgot sorry could we as members place this as far and as wide as possible, with the relevent links.

[Guest]

It's really a shame, but I have to say that I don't think no one is expecting a ticker-tape parade for their fallen soldiers, but at the very least a police escort would be enough.

As much as I hated the traffic in Iraq, because it was dangerous, and as much as I hate it here in the States, because it's annoying, I would be rolling over if, on my last march home, I got caught in it again.

[Parabellum]

The sad thing is, the average Joe gets an uninterrupted last ride, yet soldiers don't. Certainly, if the common man deserves this (and he does), then how much more do those who laid down their lives?! When a soldier comes through on his last ride, anyone and everyone on the route had damn well better get out of his car, stand up, and salute. I personally make an effort to shake the hand of every soldier I meet, and do something nice for them, even if it's just buying a guy a cup of coffee at McDonalds. It's the least we can do. Truth, some of us can't go and fight that would like to, and we owe a debt to those who have, especially to those who've given their all. To deny a man or woman their uninterrupted last ride is worse than a smack in the face. It's nothing short of complete and unmitigated contempt.

[Rocky]

Thanks to Gordo for making us aware of this terrible situation. Make sure you all sign the petition, if you're in the UK.

[Guest]

The sad thing is, the average Joe gets an uninterrupted last ride, yet soldiers don't. Certainly, if the common man deserves this (and he does), then how much more do those who laid down their lives?! When a soldier comes through on his last ride, anyone and everyone on the route had damn well better get out of his car, stand up, and salute. I personally make an effort to shake the hand of every soldier I meet, and do something nice for them, even if it's just buying a guy a cup of coffee at McDonalds. It's the least we can do. Truth, some of us can't go and fight that would like to, and we owe a debt to those who have, especially to those who've given their all. To deny a man or woman their uninterrupted last ride is worse than a smack in the face. It's nothing short of complete and unmitigated contempt.

During my father's funeral on Christmas, I was educated first hand on how people simply just don't care when it comes to the "uninterupted ride." Some stupid lady who wasn't paying attention tried to cut in the lane the procession was going in, got angry, and started beeping at the herse. Are we, as a society of human beings, so self-absorbed that we can't simply stop and let the dead pass by in dignity? If so, then that's not something I want to be a part of.

Can US residents sign to I wonder? I'll have to check that out.

[CR6]

The phenomenon that is the spontaneous outpouring of support everytime one of our fallen soldiers comes home along this stretch of Highway 401 (recently officially adopting the name "Highway of Heroes") definitely shows the average Canadian holds our Armed Forces in high esteem. It's really the least we can do to honor their sacrifice.

Although I am not an expert by any means regarding Canada's military affairs, and I don't mean to start any political discussion, but I figured I'd type up a little editorial:

Canada's military definitely has had its share of troubles before our deployment in Afghanistan. Although we have a proudn and outstanding military tradition as seen in WWII and Korea, the Canadian Forces has had poor support from the 1960's-90's from our government who would rather depend on the US for our national security - trying to make do with chronic shortages, old outdated equipment and a shoestring budget.

Our government and media seem to have been more than happy relegating the role of the Canadian Forces to "peacekeeping" which although sounds good on paper, was to say the least a very frustrating exercise in places like Bosnia and Rwanda. Afghanistan has been a real wake up call that Canadians need to be more involved in combat operations - something that I think most regular Canadians support, but unfortunately many politicians play politics with.

Glad to say that our current Prime Minister Stephen Harper definitely has shown welcome support for our Forces, not just for our troops on the ground, but actually bolstering spending on large ticket items like new ships, tanks etc. (Yes, we are currently leasing modern Leopard tanks from Germany as our old versions didn't even have air-conditioning) Harper is even trying to get a more pronounced Canadian military presence in the Arctic which has recently seen more activity from the Russians (perhaps trying to stake a claim to possible rich resources under the polar ice cap)

[pagey]

Nice review of our situation Cr6.

thank you for pointing it out.

I totally agree.(It was time for a change!)

Since im 11 im hearing reading or seeing stories of courage and determination from Brits soldiers..or from UK if you prefer..I really hope they will have better treatment.

i feel sad for the relatives of the fallen ones too...im shocked.

Tough here in Canada theres still a lot of reluctance regarding the mission in Afghanistan...and from the army in general..

Knowing 2 soldiers from the 22ieme regiment in Val-cartier i know its kinda affecting them:

especially when they are overseas..My toughts with them.

Sorry ..my english....

peace.

[+Medic+~SPARTA~]

I wish us US guys could sign a petition for you. You Brits are our biggest and dare I say best, ally. I truly hope you get every bit of the hard fought and hard sacrificed honor and dignity you deserve.

What does the Queen have to say for your sacrifice? I mean, your thing over there is God, Queen, and Country right?

It should be: God, Queen, and Country, and SOLDIERS.

HOOAH brothers.

[Saint]

Well, when the government doesn't step in and take care of it, the civilian population can make a difference...just have to find those that will.

The Patriot Guard Riders have made a big difference in the United States - ensuring our fallen get honored the way they should.

http://www.patriotguard.org/

"Our main mission is to attend the funeral services of fallen American heroes as invited guests of the family. Each mission we undertake has two basic objectives.

1. Show our sincere respect for our fallen heroes, their families, and their communities.

2. Shield the mourning family and their friends from interruptions created by any protestor or group of protestors.

To those of you who are currently serving and fighting for the freedoms of others, at home and abroad, please know that we are backing you. We honor and support you with every mission we carry out, and we are praying for a safe return home for all."

[Parabellum]

Great stuff there, Saint.

[Colin]

Just a question on this topic, do we in this country have a website dedicated to and only to fallen soldiers ??, ie

Rank Name Unit Photo died where and when, just a thought.

[xG5kdo]

Well, when the government doesn't step in and take care of it, the civilian population can make a difference...just have to find those that will.

The Patriot Guard Riders have made a big difference in the United States - ensuring our fallen get honored the way they should.

http://www.patriotguard.org/

"Our main mission is to attend the funeral services of fallen American heroes as invited guests of the family. Each mission we undertake has two basic objectives.

1. Show our sincere respect for our fallen heroes, their families, and their communities.

2. Shield the mourning family and their friends from interruptions created by any protestor or group of protestors.

To those of you who are currently serving and fighting for the freedoms of others, at home and abroad, please know that we are backing you. We honor and support you with every mission we carry out, and we are praying for a safe return home for all."

I heard about this group. Pretty kick ass.

Those pictures are despicable. I'm truly surprised, shocked and saddened that a country like the United Kingdom could treat its fallen warriors that way.

[Guest]

I heard about this group. Pretty kick ass.

Those pictures are despicable. I'm truly surprised, shocked and saddened that a country like the United Kingdom could treat its fallen warriors that way.

What's just as strange to me is that you guys have those herses with almost all glass in the back, which looks really beautiful when the Union Jack is draped over the coffin. Ours are just long box cars with tinted windows.

[FA sear]

I heard about this group. Pretty kick ass.

Those pictures are despicable. I'm truly surprised, shocked and saddened that a country like the United Kingdom could treat its fallen warriors that way.

What's just as strange to me is that you guys have those herses with almost all glass in the back, which looks really beautiful when the Union Jack is draped over the coffin. Ours are just long box cars with tinted windows.

I have to agree, those herses are very sharp, too bad that they are not being displayed in a manner that would better show the value of what is inside.

to Canada.

I am not making a blanket judgement on England here, just the specific topic on hand.

[Lancer]

Been the same since the dawn of time. Society likes to have it's heroes but it also finds them an embarassement on many levels. Read the histories of how societies have treated it's returning war veterans from the legions to the present day. Been ever thus.

Rudyard Kipling covered it in 1890 with "Tommy". As pertinent today as it was then.

I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,

The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."

The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,

I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:

O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";

But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,

The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,

O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,

They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;

They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,

But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";

But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,

The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,

O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep

Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;

An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit

Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"

But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,

The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,

O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,

But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;

An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,

Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;

While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",

But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,

There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,

O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:

We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.

Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face

The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"

But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;

An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;

An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

[xG5kdo]

That hit it right on its head.

The "average joe" likes to glorify war and the soldiers who fight in them, but really, don't want to have anything to do with them at all.

Sick and sad at the same time.

[Parabellum]

I'd like to think, I stress that I'd like to think that the "average joe" has more respect for soldiers than that. Perhaps growing up under a father that had been both prior Army, and law enforcement, my paradigm is different than the "average" person. But my brothers and I were always taught to have the highest respect for soldiers, police, and others who risk their lives for our safety daily. Maybe that's why anti-war, anti-military protestors and the like, strike me as being such .... unintelligent people. How one can have such contempt for the very people who secure our freedom for us, is beyond all rational thought.

[EricJ]

The sad thing is, the average Joe gets an uninterrupted last ride, yet soldiers don't. Certainly, if the common man deserves this (and he does), then how much more do those who laid down their lives?! When a soldier comes through on his last ride, anyone and everyone on the route had damn well better get out of his car, stand up, and salute. I personally make an effort to shake the hand of every soldier I meet, and do something nice for them, even if it's just buying a guy a cup of coffee at McDonalds. It's the least we can do. Truth, some of us can't go and fight that would like to, and we owe a debt to those who have, especially to those who've given their all. To deny a man or woman their uninterrupted last ride is worse than a smack in the face. It's nothing short of complete and unmitigated contempt.

During my father's funeral on Christmas, I was educated first hand on how people simply just don't care when it comes to the "uninterupted ride." Some stupid lady who wasn't paying attention tried to cut in the lane the procession was going in, got angry, and started beeping at the herse. Are we, as a society of human beings, so self-absorbed that we can't simply stop and let the dead pass by in dignity? If so, then that's not something I want to be a part of.

Can US residents sign to I wonder? I'll have to check that out.

I agree, I tried to sign but since I don't even have a fake UK address I can't sign it.

[Parabellum]

I read this today, gents. Truly deplorable. A British soldier was refused service by a British hotel, who claimed it is "company policy" not to service members of the military. The poor fellow had to sleep in his car. No amount of apologizing or butt-kissing after the fact by the management is sufficient. They need to be held accountable.

[Guest]

I read this today, gents. Truly deplorable. A British soldier was refused service by a British hotel, who claimed it is "company policy" not to service members of the military. The poor fellow had to sleep in his car. No amount of apologizing or butt-kissing after the fact by the management is sufficient. They need to be held accountable.

Lovely

[WytchDokta]

Oh dear England, you've done it again. Whatever happened to common courtesy and respect? And now, English students in town not far from here are being forced to learn Polish because there is a "large" Polish community in that town. And way I say 'being forced' I mean exactly that.

When I complete my language studies next year, I can put into effect my plans for the last few years - to move to mainland Europe. The music is better [and fuel is cheaper] in mainland Europe.

[Rocky]

Turns out it was an American owned hotel. Regardless, it was a silly mistake by the girl receptionist, not supported by the hotel or anyone else in the UK, so let's keep it in context