one major change i think everyone would agree on...

[th33f.]

yea, besides the SP maps converted for MP play officially; besides the ability to restrict certain weapons server-side like in GRAW1; besides basically every feature we had in GRAW1 that got taken away in GRAW2 including afteraction chat, all the server options, and all those nice things people keep bringing up, one thing that absolutely has to be brought back is the weapon selection!

by GRIN's own design, a lot of kits were supposed to be much more unique than what the are now, according to the comments for every kit left in the mp_templates.xml file. pretty much every class was supposed to carry 2 to 4 frag/smoke grenades, with the exact numbers being balanced against the firepower and attachments of the primary and secondary weapons. whatever happened to that... also, the ghost_templates.xml holds the whole SP weapon system in it and could only be enabled in MP as a mod, which wouldn't get very popular with general public due to another GRAW1 feature being taken away - autodownloader, plus the common drawback of having a mod on your server compared to just running stock.

as it stands, DM/TDM/HH/S kits are severely crippled. it was done for balance you say? what about the RvsA kits being so much better designed? and why, oh why restrict the custom weapon selection to SP only???

if only server admins could select TDM KITS, RvsA KITS, or SP CUSTOMIZATION SYSTEM for any gametype on any map - people would enjoy the game A LOT more!

from the looks of it, ubi decided we should pay twice for the content that was designed last year, sold to us with GRAW1, and then reintroduced with a GRAW2 expansion, or worse yet - a freaking sequel! oh yeah, same goes for maps. would it hurt anyone to include the GRAW1 maps in GRAW2? of course, it would! we would be much happier with our game, therefore ignoring ubi's other products. duh...

[Papa6]

I think the nade issue would be in regards to the GL's. GR1 gave perhaps, if memory serves me, 4 hand grenades.

can this xml file be changed to offer 4 instead of 1?

[th33f.]

I think the nade issue would be in regards to the GL's. GR1 gave perhaps, if memory serves me, 4 hand grenades.

can this xml file be changed to offer 4 instead of 1?

GR gave 6, and yes it could, but only as a mod that clients have to have. with this many people playing the game hoping for a full server with that mod is unrealistic.

[Fletch]

I mainly play CoOp and want the ability to select any weapon based on the mission or if playing in a league then what your told to bring.

MultiPlayer on the other hand I can see the Server Admin restricting certain weapons to make the game fun for all and to reduce lag if that be the case..

[ROCO*AFZ*]

yea, besides the SP maps converted for MP play officially; besides the ability to restrict certain weapons server-side like in GRAW1; besides basically every feature we had in GRAW1 that got taken away in GRAW2 including afteraction chat, all the server options, and all those nice things people keep bringing up, one thing that absolutely has to be brought back is the weapon selection!

by GRIN's own design, a lot of kits were supposed to be much more unique than what the are now, according to the comments for every kit left in the mp_templates.xml file. pretty much every class was supposed to carry 2 to 4 frag/smoke grenades, with the exact numbers being balanced against the firepower and attachments of the primary and secondary weapons. whatever happened to that... also, the ghost_templates.xml holds the whole SP weapon system in it and could only be enabled in MP as a mod, which wouldn't get very popular with general public due to another GRAW1 feature being taken away - autodownloader, plus the common drawback of having a mod on your server compared to just running stock.

as it stands, DM/TDM/HH/S kits are severely crippled. it was done for balance you say? what about the RvsA kits being so much better designed? and why, oh why restrict the custom weapon selection to SP only???

if only server admins could select TDM KITS, RvsA KITS, or SP CUSTOMIZATION SYSTEM for any gametype on any map - people would enjoy the game A LOT more!

from the looks of it, ubi decided we should pay twice for the content that was designed last year, sold to us with GRAW1, and then reintroduced with a GRAW2 expansion, or worse yet - a freaking sequel! oh yeah, same goes for maps. would it hurt anyone to include the GRAW1 maps in GRAW2? of course, it would! we would be much happier with our game, therefore ignoring ubi's other products. duh...

If you played beta you would understand the nade restriction.

[th33f.]

If you played beta you would understand the nade restriction.

i realize it's extremely easy to take out half a team (or more) with a few well thrown frags at the beginning of the round on certain maps. but hey, that's what the random insertion zones are for. besides, the very first one is usually the most successful and we do get that.

another thing is a few oversights in the existing kits. Demo 10 and Assault 9 both have scoped primary rifles. why? flashlight attachments are in the game, yet unavailable in MP. not good.

basically all the things we begged for in GRAW1 have disappeared again. and we'll have to pay for them... again!

modding is great, of course, and pretty much everything could be fixed in a well thought out mod, but again, there is no autodownload feature, and even if there was - people are hesitant to try anything not stock. sometimes i wish GRIN just saved themselves the time and simply rebuilt [GR] with all of it's maps and weapons into their Diesel engine. not that GRAW2 doesn't have a chance for a future. maybe these upcoming patches and expansion(s) will do wonders. right...

[Papa6]

yea, besides the SP maps converted for MP play officially; besides the ability to restrict certain weapons server-side like in GRAW1; besides basically every feature we had in GRAW1 that got taken away in GRAW2 including afteraction chat, all the server options, and all those nice things people keep bringing up, one thing that absolutely has to be brought back is the weapon selection!

by GRIN's own design, a lot of kits were supposed to be much more unique than what the are now, according to the comments for every kit left in the mp_templates.xml file. pretty much every class was supposed to carry 2 to 4 frag/smoke grenades, with the exact numbers being balanced against the firepower and attachments of the primary and secondary weapons. whatever happened to that... also, the ghost_templates.xml holds the whole SP weapon system in it and could only be enabled in MP as a mod, which wouldn't get very popular with general public due to another GRAW1 feature being taken away - autodownloader, plus the common drawback of having a mod on your server compared to just running stock.

as it stands, DM/TDM/HH/S kits are severely crippled. it was done for balance you say? what about the RvsA kits being so much better designed? and why, oh why restrict the custom weapon selection to SP only???

if only server admins could select TDM KITS, RvsA KITS, or SP CUSTOMIZATION SYSTEM for any gametype on any map - people would enjoy the game A LOT more!

from the looks of it, ubi decided we should pay twice for the content that was designed last year, sold to us with GRAW1, and then reintroduced with a GRAW2 expansion, or worse yet - a freaking sequel! oh yeah, same goes for maps. would it hurt anyone to include the GRAW1 maps in GRAW2? of course, it would! we would be much happier with our game, therefore ignoring ubi's other products. duh...

If you played beta you would understand the nade restriction.

actually the 1 nade loadout is pretty stupid, aside from the GL's. But again, this should be a feature under the control of the admin. hand grenades are no problem giving 4 to us.

[kretzj]

Call me silly but I even questioned the use of grenades and GL's in [GR]. Tac-sim, especially spec-ops... is not about pulling up against a rock and heaving grenades. I will say that there are exceptions and sometimes your mission goes to the wind and you have to start pulling the pins, but as a primary weapon? I don't think so.

For a very long time you would not have seen a Navy SEAL "go to work" with anything other than their modified versions of the MP5SD or the M4... 9mm and .223. Doesn't that tell you something about how much trouble they expect to get into? Sure, most teams had a designated sniper but he didn't always tote out the M82 Barrett for each mission... in fact with the weight of that gun you SERIOUSLY had to justify pulling that out of the closet rather than a much lighter and smaller, but less powerful, weapon. There's a cheesy but accurate line in the movie SWAT when Samuel L. Jackson asks Colin Ferrel what he did as a SEAL. Ferrel's answer was simple, "My boat instructor always told me that if someone found out what we did, we'd failed". That should be the motto of a spec-op tac-sim. Silence in, silent work, silence out. Heck, I found myself wishing for a combat knife on "Get Me Rosen" because I wanted to try it without guns at all.

From my [GR] days to just now playing GRAW2 SP, I prioritize the concept of using the least amount of ammo on every mission and I use silenced weapons a LOT. I have a ZIP file laying around with screen shots of every [GR] mission + map packs where I expended 30 rounds for 30 kills on Elite in Firefight mode using a silenced M4 SOPMOD. I'm tempted to try it with just a silenced M9 next.

Grenades? They got packed on several GRAW2 SP missions but I remember using them only once or twice, and only because my situation went seriously south.

[Lightspeed]

WELL FOLKS I HAVE A TEST MOD - CALLED NEWBALANCE.

Very small file and it is a mod so you will need to spread the word to get everyone to trial it in the Servers.

In this way we, theef and I, can look at tweaks to make the balance better.

'BRING BACK THE BALANCE!!'

NEWBALANCE KITS

Current Setup -

1. Demo - 2 GLs, 3 or 4 Primary Mags and Pistol Secondary.

2. Assault - 3 Frags - no sights or silencers on primary - a couple of silencers in secondary but no sights.

3. Rifleman - All the sights and silencers you could ever want - but only 1 Hand Frag.

4. Support - Hvy Machine Gun, Light Machine Gun, 1 Handfrag, 1 Smoke Frag.

5. Sniper - Sniper Rifle, Light Machine Gun or Pistol, 2 Smoke Frags for Stealth and Retreat, Barrett only 5 Rounds.

Now my experience tells me some, maybe a lot wont like the restrictions but if they give it a chance they might see it creates some interesting ingame combinations. I would suggest ppl running this Mod for a week or so to see how it feels and if they dont like it, we can adjust it or remove it all together.

Thanks

theef and Lighty.

having just read this post - according to Rocoafz too many handfrags could destroy the MP gaming experience.

yes it is a mod - but i dont think its too big an ask to get players to add one mod to their setup for MP gaming if it improves gaming.

as i said - all of this stuff can be tweaked to suit a majority.

one can but only try.

Edited October 3, 2007 by SCE_Lightspeed

[viiiper]

yea, besides the SP maps converted for MP play officially; besides the ability to restrict certain weapons server-side like in GRAW1; besides basically every feature we had in GRAW1 that got taken away in GRAW2 including afteraction chat, all the server options, and all those nice things people keep bringing up, one thing that absolutely has to be brought back is the weapon selection!

Your view, one thing?, I don't think so, my view, bring back all the things removed from GRAW2 that were GRAW1 features. It will never happen..... baby has all the toys now baby has none, baby cry.... I'm fed up of saying give baby toys back.

The year is coming to an end and new chapter starts.

[th33f.]

WELL FOLKS I HAVE A TEST MOD - CALLED NEWBALANCE.

Very small file and it is a mod so you will need to spread the word to get everyone to trial it in the Servers.

In this way we, theef and I, can look at tweaks to make the balance better.

'BRING BACK THE BALANCE!!'

NEWBALANCE KITS

Current Setup -

1. Demo - 2 GLs, 3 or 4 Primary Mags and Pistol Secondary.

2. Assault - 3 Frags - no sights or silencers on primary - a couple of silencers in secondary but no sights.

3. Rifleman - All the sights and silencers you could ever want - but only 1 Hand Frag.

4. Support - Hvy Machine Gun, Light Machine Gun, 1 Handfrag, 1 Smoke Frag.

5. Sniper - Sniper Rifle, Light Machine Gun or Pistol, 2 Smoke Frags for Stealth and Retreat, Barrett only 5 Rounds.

Now my experience tells me some, maybe a lot wont like the restrictions but if they give it a chance they might see it creates some interesting ingame combinations. I would suggest ppl running this Mod for a week or so to see how it feels and if they dont like it, we can adjust it or remove it all together.

Thanks

theef and Lighty.

having just read this post - according to Rocoafz too many handfrags could destroy the MP gaming experience.

yes it is a mod - but i dont think its too big an ask to get players to add one mod to their setup for MP gaming if it improves gaming.

as i said - all of this stuff can be tweaked to suit a majority.

one can but only try.

good work, Lightspeed. just to clarify, i can't take any credit for this, i merely suggested the kit contents for each class, but haven't done any actual work. now Rocky just needs to add it to the downloads and hopefully people will like it.

hey, Lighty, i wonder what would happen if you simply rename ghost_templates.xml(SP weapon customization system) to mp_templates. probably wouldn't work, but if it did it'd be a dream come true...

[Lightspeed]

so u get the sp kit loadout screen?

[th33f.]

so u get the sp kit loadout screen?

exactly. wouldn't that be sweet!

[Lightspeed]

ill have a look at it

[[30+]Retlaw]

Why all the things that Grin added to GRAW1 dissapear?. Game modes, weapon selection, server contrlability, etc.

I, deep down inside think that GRAW2 is just a "Port" of the 360 version. I don't think Grin work "Hard" on GRAW2.

Why they didn't just add to the graw game and made it better with all the new additions and refinements? . Because I think the game was given to them to "PORT" and that's all they did. Now, this is my opinion. I enjoy matching in GRAW2, is not perfect but is a good game to have fun with your team. The truth be told, this game just need some tweeks and additions to make it "realy good" and some of those "tweeks" were on GRAW1. How come they didn't include them if it was already done? It confuse me greatly.

[Cell]

Call me silly but I even questioned the use of grenades and GL's in [GR]. Tac-sim, especially spec-ops... is not about pulling up against a rock and heaving grenades. I will say that there are exceptions and sometimes your mission goes to the wind and you have to start pulling the pins, but as a primary weapon? I don't think so.

THis all refers to MP...as far as SP goes...I would load up like a Mexican Farmer's mule and weigh 500 punds with all the explosives I'd have strapped to me....unloading all of it as I go.

In no way is this meant to be rude, but says who? Explosives = not tactical? Frags and GL's are not meant to be primary weapons at all, even though some people end up using the gl that way...but so be it...there is always CS and R6 if you don't like the GL. And no I'm not telling you to go play that and be condescending in any way, but the gl's and hand frags do have a place in this game.

If I were a soldier in a small group going up against potential hordes of enemies, I would love to have a grenade launcher and frags. I need to be tactical, therefore no nades? c'mon ..that's just silly. Tactical would be, to wait for the enemies to bunch up, and blow them away with a well placed gl or frag. Sniper holed down in a great hiding spot picking off my buddies, ok well tossed hand frag can take care of that. And well timed and well placed shots with my rifle. So then bullets would be the only thing considered "tactical"?

I know about balance, but why would I also carry 1 hand frag if I were a Ghost? I think about being a soldier and considering my loadout before deployment and saying to myself, nah I only want to take 1 hand frag...its just more fair to the enemy. Don't wnt them to cry about grenades. Same with GL's. "you know, 2 Gl's is fair, I don't want my enemies to get upset with me and call me a Noob Toober, or fag gl'er or whatever immature phrase they come up with because they can't handle getting beat.

Or, "You know, I already have a GL with 2 lowley Gl's, I shouldn't clip a few frags to my uniform, because that would be unfair balance. I really need to consider the opposing forces feelings."

I can't tell you how many times I played Castle Day on GR1, and got fragged within 10 seconds along with half of my team when both spawned close. Its part of the game, and the fun of evading such attacks.

I understand where Grin was going with the kit loadouts, it was a step back towards the pre-defined kits of GR1, some people especially preferred the GRAW1 way of doing it. GRAW1 did get somethings right...and did improve in some ways upon GR1, but it was other little things that were lacking. There is a point to this though, it results in almost everyone taking ....Assault Rifle/Scope/Silencer/Gl's. = Servers turn off GL's = Lame. Almost every GRAW server at the end had GL's off. Its just plain silly. Then you go to match and are like......Oh..this game has Gl's?

It really is a tough call....they are trying to balance the kits out, but in doing so there are some illogical loadouts. And if you are allowed to chose exactly what you can take, then servers start banning certain things, mainly gl's. I would rather see it stay the way it is before I would want to see the GL go. And mind you I only use the GL every so often, going between M416 and SCARH Assault, Rifleman & Demo Kits , and the M14 Sniper Kit. Love that MK pistol 8).

One more thing, with no-repwans, the 2 GL's become no factor, yet we still need a few more Hand Frags. This game...if you want to refer to it as a "Tac-Sim"......in MP.....should be played with Limited to No Respawns. That is were a lot of the point is missed. It becomes a whole different beast with unlimited lives.

Edited October 3, 2007 by Cell*AFZ*

[BOTA:X]

Air strikes and Artillery are tactical also but I sure don't want to see them used in GRAW lol....

I am fine with the 1 gernade thing, it forces people to either pre-nade or wait until they hear something, they can't do both. If you have too many gernades it makes the game about everyone sitting still and waiting for someone to breath and then the area gets peppered with frags.

[Cell]

Air strikes and Artillery are tactical also but I sure don't want to see them used in GRAW lol....

I am fine with the 1 gernade thing, it forces people to either pre-nade or wait until they hear something, they can't do both. If you have too many gernades it makes the game about everyone sitting still and waiting for someone to breath and then the area gets peppered with frags.

Good point Sir. THat brings up another point....The Ghost Uniform and boots couldn't be louder if it was made up of Potato Chip bags and Wooden Clogs. Talk about stealth? These guys make as much noise as a bull in a china shop. Maybe tone down the noise these guys make?

Edited October 3, 2007 by Cell*AFZ*

[Fletch]

The Ghost Uniform and boots couldn't be louder if it was made up of Potato Chip bags and Wooden Clogs. Talk about stealth? These guys make as much noise as a bull in a china shop. Maybe tone down the noise these guys make?

Yep, sounds like they are stomping their feet as they walk.

[kretzj]

The Ghost Uniform and boots couldn't be louder if it was made up of Potato Chip bags and Wooden Clogs.

Now THAT's a mental picture. Back to the topic, you are definitely correct about the issue...

And I'm still wondering about the strategic value of the butt-slide maneuver.

-John K.

[th33f.]

Maybe tone down the noise these guys make?

i think it was a tiny little bit compared to GRAW1. at least crouching is the same as walking now, and doesn't have the sound of duct tape being pulled off the roll. besides there are more environment sounds to mask the noise. i usually wait for a close by firefight to break out before i make a move on someone camping.

you're right about getting used to GL's for matches too. the only difference to practicing it in public servers is, like you said, the infinite respawn setup. people don't care for the fact that the m203 they just used is their last one. infinite spawns and tactics live on the opposite sides of town, and they don't go together very well.

[Nutlink]

While everyone has their own opinions on the matter, I wonder if it might be better to scrap this game and build something else from the ground up rather than add to the current game/engine.

[RINGPULL]

Well i have looked at the server list over the past few months and GRAW 2 is going down hill fast IMO.

just take a look tons of servers and about 10 servers with any one in.

most games today are aimed at the console for big ££££ not the poor pc.

i spent loads on GFX-SOUND-PSU-CPU-MEM and more for the next gen games and what do i get.

games that can run easy on XBOX360 and PS3 my GFX & sound cards cost as much as the XBOX.

I sit in hope that the PC will have its day again soon what a joke.

The day of tatctical gaming is dead, run and gun console gaming is here

....RING

[Papa6]

I never expected that GRAW2 would nose dive so fast. But Why did they turn a tac-sim into a run of the mill First Person shooter? kids?

lemme ask this, if something isn't broken, to mean the franchise, why try to fix it? they ruined the franchise. I've accepted this game as is, a FPS and that's all. It doesn't deserve the Ghost Recon name. Sorry, I'm not trying to bust Grin's chops. but they DID make a fun game in concept, just not a tac-sim.

I am a tac-sim fan like alot of the others here. maybe ground branch can fill the void, who knows?

Maybe RSE can turn this around. they are after all, the conceiver's of this franchise right? let's hope.

[Cell]

I never expected that GRAW2 would nose dive so fast. But Why did they turn a tac-sim into a run of the mill First Person shooter? kids?

For me it is simple. Content, and details. For the MP player, there are way too few stock maps. For the online coop player, there are way too few stock maps. As much as you love the game, it gets stale playing the same maps over and over again.

Couple this with kit restrictions that many don't like, collision issues, non casual user-friendly server setup, no auto-download, linear missions, no stock 4 respawn points for MP, small amount of MP gametypes, a delay in the mod tools.... and a whole host of features missing or added that people don't care for and you have people who lose interest. And why is gamespy c**k blocking our stats system?

This game is really good....with all the crap it takes, it is. If you look at what you get when you play there are plenty of positives to point out. Plus when I compare it to other games of its type, its still the best one out there....without the proper amount of content. 8( The graphics are great, the sound is awesome, a bit incomplete (most metal grates, bushes, leaves, make no sound) but still very good, the player movement is smooth, and feels right when playing. The MP maps, as few as there are, are more like IMO this community is looking for. The player models are real nice, weapons are nice and detailed, and really well done. From your own perspective they look great....hands/weapons...etc. Map details are nice, dust kicks up when someone shoots near ground or a rock, bullets kick up dust that's realistic looking, realistic grass & bushes.

Instead of scrapping the engine, or worrying about re-working it or re-building it, how about really concentrating on the game content and features. Content Content Content. Maybe it is a result of the engine, I wouldn't know, but to say this title is in the toilet, is going way too far.

Edited October 4, 2007 by Cell*AFZ*