Bota:16 Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 I'm still skeptical. I'll wait for a demo or for user reviews from die hard [GR] fans at this site... Well GRIN has already said it is not like [GR], so diehard [GR] fans probably won't be the best reviewers if you are making a judgment on GRAW 2 as it's own game and not from a series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubaman3D Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 (edited) Well GRIN has already said it is not like [GR], so diehard [GR] fans probably won't be the best reviewers if you are making a judgment on GRAW 2 as it's own game and not from a series. Further calling into question the credibility of the preview then. I do like that AS-50 in one of the pictures though . Don't get me wrong, it dosn't have to be [GR], but if it plays similar, then I'm sure I would like it. Edited February 15, 2007 by Scubaman3D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksaww Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 I'm still somewhat skeptical, but if this isn't a Ubi-inspired preview, then I am a little bit excited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwgfghost Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Hell yeah. Bout time they released some info about the PC version. Not only did they go with the suh-weet ACUs but the fact that they went back to Assault and Recon sounds just...yeeesssss!!!!!!!! The story about the AI sneaking around, taking fire, and then switching to his silenced weapon was just great. Thank you IGN for the sweet preview. And thank you GRIN for keeping it Free. Freedom that is not the game. Of course I'm gonna dish out 49.99 for this. I'd dish out 60 bux if I had to. Just looks mad nice. Can't wait. Hooah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONDLIFE Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Damn you GRiN, Looks like you're getting more of my money! It looks like GRiN did listen to the negative points of GRAW and improve on them....Thanks guys, I'm off to pre-order now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost9 Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 sounds good, but still looks like a $50 dollar expansion pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calius Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 I'm still skeptical. I'll wait for a demo or for user reviews from die hard [GR] fans at this site... Hehe, skeptical ... oh yeh a demo will be the main thing alright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehgler_AS Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 sounds good, but still looks like a $50 dollar expansion pack. Or it sounds like what many expected GRAW to be in the first place. I'm still skeptical. I'll wait for a demo or for user reviews from die hard [GR] fans at this site... Hehe, skeptical ... oh yeh a demo will be the main thing alright And that demo will need to show off all of these features to sell me. I think too many people (myself included) got suckered by the nice eye candy in GRAW, and just believed that since it still had GR in the name they just had to get the basics about gameplay and modability right. Well we all know how that went. So far all the marketing speak has at best made it sound like we are likely to have many/most of the basic GR features back. I hope that is correct, as it is the critical first step toward a somewhat durable small-unit tactical game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph_Q Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 (edited) This preview sounds good, lets wait and see. "In essence, this means that the PC iteration will have a greater focus on strategic depth, playing a lot more like earlier games in the series." Earlier GAMES in the series ? So we are talking about [GR] and...... uhmmmm [GR] ? PS. I wonder if we still have silenced weapons loaded with laserbeam tracers in GRAW 2 ? EDIT Code is finished in 70% ? If its true we should expect delay annocement shortly. Edited February 15, 2007 by Joseph_Q Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockeystick Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 (edited) It was 70% when bit-tech had a look at it too at January 29th, so I would assume it's an early code. But still, I wouldn't mind if they delayed it Edited February 15, 2007 by Hockeystick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossiski Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 The article doesn't really mention coop. I hope that changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa6 Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 I wouldn't worry Rossiski. I think they'll fix your COOP. from what I'm seeing now, with the improvements and adding of tactical gaming, I'm still optimistic and think GRAW2 might turn things around. my concern is the modding. hopefully it will bear fruit as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathDealer71 Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 I wouldn't worry Rossiski. I think they'll fix your COOP. from what I'm seeing now, with the improvements and adding of tactical gaming, I'm still optimistic and think GRAW2 might turn things around. my concern is the modding. hopefully it will bear fruit as well. I would have to agree with you on that as well. If we have a demo and its good I will pre-order like last time. Although I have high expectations on GRAW 2 it will be a wait and see. Lets hope all is great when it comes out. Death Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 To get the type of coop gaming GR1 fans had, i.e. objective based missions with scoring, you really need a mission editor. GRAW2 still being programmed in XML might indicate this will be unlikely... but I'm no programmer so what do I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRIN_Wolfsong Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 To get the type of coop gaming GR1 fans had, i.e. objective based missions with scoring, you really need a mission editor. GRAW2 still being programmed in XML might indicate this will be unlikely... but I'm no programmer so what do I know. I don't think you'll need that. The GRAW modders have started to get into the XML scripting from what I've seen in the modding section. Setting up objectives and scoring isn't harder then setting up enemy spawns so I think it'll work fine even without it. Remember that it's not programing, just scripting which is a lower level of programming. You don't have to understand how to do most of what XML can do it can't be used in these scripts. The main thing that is important is to understand how to break down a situation, which you still had to in GR1. After that it all about using the already existing commands (and of course sticking to the syntax which is really basic compared to actual programming). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Corax- Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Sandbags looking much betta!!! Did they tweak the team indicators (diamonds) or are my eyes just playing tricks on me... Looking good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bota:16 Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 To get the type of coop gaming GR1 fans had, i.e. objective based missions with scoring, you really need a mission editor. GRAW2 still being programmed in XML might indicate this will be unlikely... but I'm no programmer so what do I know. I don't think you'll need that. The GRAW modders have started to get into the XML scripting from what I've seen in the modding section. Setting up objectives and scoring isn't harder then setting up enemy spawns so I think it'll work fine even without it. Remember that it's not programing, just scripting which is a lower level of programming. You don't have to understand how to do most of what XML can do it can't be used in these scripts. The main thing that is important is to understand how to break down a situation, which you still had to in GR1. After that it all about using the already existing commands (and of course sticking to the syntax which is really basic compared to actual programming). I am more of a cut and paste type of guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehgler_AS Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 To get the type of coop gaming GR1 fans had, i.e. objective based missions with scoring, you really need a mission editor. GRAW2 still being programmed in XML might indicate this will be unlikely... but I'm no programmer so what do I know. I don't think you'll need that. The GRAW modders have started to get into the XML scripting from what I've seen in the modding section. Setting up objectives and scoring isn't harder then setting up enemy spawns so I think it'll work fine even without it. Remember that it's not programing, just scripting which is a lower level of programming. You don't have to understand how to do most of what XML can do it can't be used in these scripts. The main thing that is important is to understand how to break down a situation, which you still had to in GR1. After that it all about using the already existing commands (and of course sticking to the syntax which is really basic compared to actual programming). I am sorry Wolfsong, but there are just too many problems with what you have said. First, XML is NOT a programming language. XML is a meta-language typically used for data markup. XML, by itself, can never do anything for you PERIOD. The language used to script for GRAW is an XML based language, but Grin/ubi decided to never release the specifications for that language (something that is called a DTD or Document Type Definition). Second, the GR scripting language (made available to mission builders) through Igor was in fact a quite complete programming language -- it has control structures ("continue if", "redirect if", etc), it has variables (both counters and pointers/references), it has looping structures. These types of structures (many of which are missing from GRAW) are critical for what Rockey has mentioned. Third, the GR AI can be instructed to change what they are doing. This is critical to allow the construction of things resembling "realistic" missions that involve stealth. GRAW does not have that ability and it is not at all clear that this feature will be there in GRAW2. I certainly hope Grin understands why this is important and have included the capability this time around. Finally, the bit about "scripting is not programming" is really quite inaccurate. Scripting is really very much programming, it is just done with a domain specific language, and is typically done in ways that are not familiar to many programmers. For example the languages used by both GR and GRAW are what are known as production languages, as opposed to procedural languages. It is certainly not "higher" or "lower" level, it is just different. The real problem (for the coop mission builders) has been that the language provided by Grin for GRAW is neither well documented, nor is it particularly complete (in the sense of Turing complete for the technically minded). This is in sharp contrast to what we had for GR, which was quite reasonably documented and plenty close to being complete to allow construction of very interesting and complex missions (with automated scoring and reactive tangos.. etc.). I hope GRAW2 fixes this. For me, this is the ONE BIG ISSUE that will make or break the game for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRIN_Wolfsong Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 (edited) The real problem (for the coop mission builders) has been that the language provided by Grin for GRAW is neither well documented,... I think i documented it quite well in November. What I'm talking about when I say it's just scripting and not real programming is that you can't create new things, implement new commands into the engine, don't have to allocate/ deallocated memory and all that stuff. With that I just tried to say it's a simpler thing then actual programming. So an editor isn't needed just to script it, which was all that I aimed to point out in my post. I was not saying that XML is a programming language. The only reason I talked about scripting versus programming is that people on these boards have complained that you need to know how to program to be able to make missions for GRAW, which isn't true in any way. But I'm also trying to keep things from getting complicated in th text here so I don't use all the actual word that non programmers most likely don't understand anyways. The other things your complaining about has nothing to do with having a script editor either, it's about available commands, so I don't know why you answered my post with that as it's not what I was talking about. But some of it is in GRAW actually, the looping and varaibles are there for example. But I agree that it would be nice with some more commands. EDIT: Big spelling errors.... Edited February 16, 2007 by Wolfsong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightspeed Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 so has anyone seen this coop editor? and s it for designing missions or firefights only? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRIN_Wolfsong Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 (edited) so has anyone seen this coop editor? and s it for designing missions or firefights only? There will most likely not be a special Coop editor... If there is an editor it will be a general one for all kinds of maps. Edited February 16, 2007 by Wolfsong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightspeed Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 (edited) well basically fro what I've heard, there isnt going to be anything that we havent already seen in the Original. Edited February 16, 2007 by PoW_LigHtsPeEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockeystick Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 (edited) well basically fro what I've heard, there isnt going to be anything that we havent already seen in the Original. Isn't that what we want? Edited February 16, 2007 by Hockeystick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehgler_AS Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 well basically fro what I've heard, there isnt going to be anything that we havent already seen in the Original. Isn't that what we want? That all depends on how you read that word "original" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockeystick Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 well basically fro what I've heard, there isnt going to be anything that we havent already seen in the Original. Isn't that what we want? That all depends on how you read that word "original" I meant GR1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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