Ubi forums takes a turn for the worse

[Forrester]

Well I'm glad there is a ghostrecon.net

the other forum is like many official forums filled with a broad variety of people. Like Colin I want to help people that have trouble, get people to like the game, and hope for some of the old glorious days. The UBI franchise is turning from bad to worse, as far as I can see there will be no next GR Endwar will be developed for consoles only to port it to PC, so we only get from bad to worse. I can only hope there will come a game with modding tools that make it easy to create new maps and such without all the fuzz, and if that game is somewhat tactical (no bunny hoppers plz) we'll see a big PC community. I have my bets on Blackfoot at the moment, but if they don't make it I won't be surprised, its hard to make good computer games, especially if you start as a small company without the big funds.

I can only hope UBI will see there's a PC market and a score spot were once a great game used to be.....

Thanks Colin for all you did..... you helped me get GRAW working too in teh early days....

Edited February 28, 2008 by Forrester

[WhiteKnight77]

Not much in the way of new-information.

I see this kind of comment pop up frequently and I have to say I think its a shame. The recent patch news in particular was announced first on the Ubisoft forums, the news only got here as fast as it did because I took the time to post it here straight after, it just strikes me that what some are suggesting is because people like myself and Kimi take the time to post information here we are in your eyes reaffirming the lacking value of the Ubisoft forums. That looks like a lose lose situation to me

It's more than where it was announced first and it is more than a lack of new information. It was widely known a patch was in the works, even though Ubi did not say anything until you did post such information, both at Ubi and here. There is also the lack of support for the games along with Ubi seemingly not listening to it's cutomers. That is wearing on an awful lot of people and many, or is it most, are fed up. Take a look at Vegas 2, fans repeatedly (not to mention GR fans) stating that they want more people to be able to play Coop together. What did Ubi do? They actually reduced the number of people who can play Coop from 4 to 2. That is as bad as sitting on the couch with someone sharing the same game and TV to play split screen. It is not just a lack of information that has fans and customers upset and leaving, it's the seemingly uncaring attitude that Ubi has.

Some of us appreciate what you and Kimi are trying to do, but more needs to be done.

[kleaneasy]

I don’t think anyone disagrees more can be done but I have to respectfully disagree with you on the other comments.

The issue in this case is about when, where and how the news was released because several people have said in this very thread that they don’t use the Ubi forums because there is never any news posted over there, while it might have been true once (I don’t honestly know for sure) this simply isn’t true now and whilst I wouldn’t force people to use forums they don’t like at least let them not use them for the right reasons.

The reason when and where it was posted is important is because as you say the community ‘knew’ a patch was in testing… yet the community/forum managers did not and the only reason we didn’t provide you information on that patch sooner was because we were not aware you were all awaiting information on it, no one asked in fact I didn’t even know one was expected lol, However the minute we did find out a request for more information was submitted and Kazzoo followed that up, within 5 days we had an announcement confirming its release date. Granted not as detailed as you might have liked but none the less on knowing there was a problem we looked into it, found the answer and reported it.

We can’t give the information you seek when we don’t know what it is…communication is a 2 way street we need to know what the problem is in order to try and fix it.

[Tinker]

First to provide the GR.Net community with a working link for patch 1.05 = Tinker 1630Hrs GMT

Second to provide the GR.Net community with a working link for patch 1.05 = Colin 1635Hrs GMT

Patch was actually available at 1628Hrs GMT.

Not that any of that matters.

I first, second and third Whiteknight77`s post. The coop needs to return in some form that we have asked for.

Some of us appreciate what you and Kimi are trying to do, but more needs to be done.

The GR community has voiced our requirements for new installments of this game. Not that i think we deserve any special treatment, but just about all the things that made it so good, seem to have faded away slowly, with each new installment.

I seriously cannot see any Recon in GRAW2 at all, besides Rosen.

Recon

To patrol looking for enemy movements and facilities in order to gain information. Generally, contact is avoided if at all possible.

Maybe they should consider a less intense system requirement game. The majority of the best missions I`ve played, usually can involve less firefights, and in some cases, simply weapons red to the end.

[kleaneasy]

First to provide the GR.Net community with a working link for patch 1.05 = Tinker 1630Hrs GMT

Second to provide the GR.Net community with a working link for patch 1.05 = Colin 1635Hrs GMT

Patch was actually available at 1628Hrs GMT.

Not that any of that matters.

Just so I am clear are you suggesting advance notice from Ubisoft of the patch release date is second to people posting on the day of release that the patch was out?

In case you missed it...link: http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php...c=48909&hl=

and...

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2...13/m/8611093236

Edited February 28, 2008 by kleaneasy

[Tinker]

Can we comment on the decline in the co-op side?

I think this has led to a overall decline in many Forums and clans.

As for UBI Forums, GRAW2 side at least, it just looks like a constant barrage of issues in general.

[kleaneasy]

The decline in co-op is already under discussion in another thread, and in fairness isnt what this thread is about. Although I am curious why you would want to move from the issue being addressed which was whether the Ubisoft forums release any news or not.

[Tinker]

I used to be under the impression ubi kept in touch with Rocky on these matters. But that is just my own assumption. Maybe they do. Sry to go off topic. I don`t usually speak out much, but we want some real tournaments again. That`s the 1 thing that keeps all Forums happy.

[WhiteKnight77]

Klean, we have continually asked for information about everything and anything about the games, what support we can expect and if any patches that might be in the works. All of this has been asked repeatedly. Recently, and I have answered this question myself and threads have been locked as to this questions, but fans have asked if a GRAW 3 is in the works (at least in the console forums, PC gamers seem to care less nowadays).

Fans want a continual stream of information. Take a look at the SC forums, there is a thread there relating to such lack of new information. That is a plea for more that what has been given, apparently since Ubi Days last May I believe it was (it may have been March). Just today though, I did get an email from Ubi with some more information for Vegas 2 though I haven't seen many people ask for that.

Fans should not have to beg for tidbits of information, they want something that they can sink their teeth into at least once a month. I am aware that there are things that Ubi wants and moreso, needs to keep secret, all developers do after all, but there is plenty that can be told without giving away the secrets.

[Lightspeed]

ok my two cents,

I'm sorry to see Colin leave UBI - he was one of the few good things the UBI forums did have and I think a number of us felt that he might be able to educate UBI to initiate some changes. Unfortunately, as Colin said, they just don't listen. So Colin leaving is UBIs loss....

I stopped looking at UBI Forums a long time ago - maybe 2 years now - why? Cos you could spam and span and spam forums for some info from UBI and you'd receive precisely "nothing" in return.

What is the %&^*ing point of THE UBI FORUMS if they can't tell you anything.

Now maybe things have changed a little - but UBI lost me so long ago - they missed the opportunity to show me how 'good' they were/are.

In relation to the Path 1.05 - there seems to be a little arguement about who posted what first. My question to kleeneasy is, how long before the patch was released did you tell gamers that there WAS DEFINITELY going to be a patch released?

As far as I can tell, there was a brief suggestion about an upcoming patch a long time ago - but then no information about it at all until it suddenly hit the download section. If this is the case, then it is a clear reflection to me that the point of the UBI Forums, is that there is no point.

You hear nothing about any Patch development until it suddenly becomes available. UBI members get no input in the Game nor the Patch (this is clearly refelected in a patch which adds none of the things requested by the gamers - no new maps, gametypes not configured to all maps etc etc).

Essentially, UBI AND UBI FORUMS SUCK...period.

[WhiteKnight77]

I started the Ubi and Information or The Seeming Lack Thereof thread at Ubi to bring those who are still at the Ubi forums into the discussion.

[Papa6]

Not to get this off topic but GRAW/GRAW2 fit the COOP billing;

But Rocky or someone posted in the news here that companies are saying that COOP development is difficult. basically I culled from the article that, I'm under the opinion that most devs say it's too difficult to make SP/COOP modes because it really adds too much to the development time.

AI will never mimic real life and perhaps getting too real makes things way to hard to make. But I think that dev companies are getting too lazy or careless in not wanting to give a crack at COOP.

[GR] coop, while primitive, was fun anyway because we could do so much with the vehicles etc. But these games today try to get too many algorithms involved that, if your player farts, then the enemy take cover. this high powered AI started with farcry.

But that's my take on singleplayer games these days. UBI has lost all touch with gamers in these arenas

Edited February 29, 2008 by Papa6

[NoQuarter]

… yet the community/forum managers did not and the only reason we didn’t provide you information on that patch sooner was because we were not aware you were all awaiting information on it, no one asked in fact I didn’t even know one was expected ...

With all due respect Kleaneasy...but who ya crappin?

Suggest you go take a trip down Memory Lane in the GRAW(PC) section of the Ubi forums, back to say 28-08-07 to present, do a little reading and then if you can honestly come back and repeat that in fact you had no idea...well then you'll have proved the (point) title of this thread.

Find="patch">Go.

We can’t give the information you seek when we don’t know what it is…communication is a 2 way street we need to know what the problem is in order to try and fix it.

Do you have any idea just how insulting that is?

[Lightspeed]

The reason when and where it was posted is important is because as you say the community ‘knew’ a patch was in testing… yet the community/forum managers did not and the only reason we didn’t provide you information on that patch sooner was because we were not aware you were all awaiting information on it, no one asked in fact I didn’t even know one was expected

that is f'n hilarious.

so you will only provide information specifically relating to the game if we ask for it.

just so you are completely aware of the situation kleen - most of the information on GRAW 1 which was posted in the UBI Forums was sourced by members of the forums doing web surfing, not from the UBI Admins.

on numerous occasions, the UBI Admins seemed to be the last to know about new SS or Dev interviews, and believe it or not, about new information released on the UBI GRAW websites.

why would anyone stay with UBI Forums when they are always the last to know?

the fact that 8 seconds after you posted about the released patch, we already had a GR.Net member posting the info on this site demonstrates to me that this site is a far better site in relation to the discovery of new info...and its not just isolated to GRAW games.

check the PC games forums and you will see the latest and greatest of all new info for PC games being released here within hours of release on the Net.

i would ay that a large number of UBI members who discovered this site via UBI Forums probably decided that they were better off here then at UBI.

no offense to you - just pointing out the facts about UBI forums as I have witnessed.

[ruggbutt]

I've been on the UBI site for a long time. Even in the [GR] days we had to come here for the inside scoop. UBI doesn't give a rat's behind about it's PC gamers.

[Lightspeed]

i was banned from the forums in those days by "can't remember his name" - I think he banned you too lol.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

To be clear... We want what the consoles get. Ahead of time they get screenshots of up and coming games... ON THERE PLATFORM. half the screenshots for GRAW 2 were of xbox screens. We want some hype... some anticipation, which will intern lead to more sales / MORE PLAYERS. Something to lookforward to that WILL be delivered on our platform. You want peeps to come back... tell them there is a patch in the works. This will sell YOU more games. This will SATISFY us. Then deliver it. Create a tournament, promote some prizes to ladders, even if there small like hats or posters. Also, give the dev a chance to complete the game. I don't care if it takes over a year. I would like it complete.

I myself enjoyed Graw 1 and 2 but i am not a co-oper. On the UBI forum also... Colin was the only reason i would visit UBI. he would post info here that was important and link it, so i would go post at UBI, look over a few spams and come back here.

Oh and one more thing. Get the freaken US site to actually update when there is some info. I get sick of checking the UK and France.

I do appreciate though kleaneasy actually coming over here to talk to us and try to understand our point. I think he is the 1st UBI'er i have seen in over a year post any info.

[blk_widow9]

To be clear... We want what the consoles get. Ahead of time they get screenshots of up and coming games... ON THERE PLATFORM. half the screenshots for GRAW 2 were of xbox screens. We want some hype... some anticipation, which will intern lead to more sales / MORE PLAYERS. Something to lookforward to that WILL be delivered on our platform. You want peeps to come back... tell them there is a patch in the works. This will sell YOU more games. This will SATISFY us. Then deliver it. Create a tournament, promote some prizes to ladders, even if there small like hats or posters. Also, give the dev a chance to complete the game. I don't care if it takes over a year. I would like it complete.

I myself enjoyed Graw 1 and 2 but i am not a co-oper. On the UBI forum also... Colin was the only reason i would visit UBI. he would post info here that was important and link it, so i would go post at UBI, look over a few spams and come back here.

Oh and one more thing. Get the freaken US site to actually update when there is some info. I get sick of checking the UK and France.

I do appreciate though kleaneasy actually coming over here to talk to us and try to understand our point. I think he is the 1st UBI'er i have seen in over a year post any info.

We really do appreciate your feedback about the game. We also try to deliver you all of the information we have ourselves. I'm sorry that you don't feel like your voice is being heard but we give you everything we can and do pass along your concerns.

Colin was the first to turn around the GRAW forum but me an Kleaneasy are doing our best to continue and improve the work that he has done.

[WhiteKnight77]

blk_widow9 is the Forum/Community Manager for the GRAW forums and she just started the job recently.

One other thing really, it's not really about which forum or in this case which website (fansite or actual game site) gets the information first, it's about getting information period.

[kleaneasy]

There have been a lot of comments and I won’t quote each of your personally as you all sing from the same sheet so the only thing i would really succeed in doing is filling this thread with quotes lol

Seriously though i do want to clear up some apparent confusion….

1st I have tried to be clear that my comments relate to changes taking place in recent months ONLY. If this hasn’t come across very clearly my apologies but I am being very specific to that time period because that is when the staffing changes were set in place to bring about the changes that are coming in. Granted it’s a slow process but frankly there’s a lot to change and well I might like to think I’m superwomen as I am sure the others wish they were superman/women but the reality is we're not. This is why I am not commenting on issues pre December and certainly not as far back as the first GRAW or even before that, I'm not ignoring them but simply not in a position to address them.

Next a few questioned if i/we are suggesting you have to ask/ chase us for all your information?

Being totally honest with you all now the communication system is going through major changes and I don’t imagine for one minute the kinks will be ironed out for some time, we do try to get the info out first but that’s not always possible. In addition to this since starting the job myself and other forum managers have made huge changes across the entire Ubi boards, tasks which were long overdue and thus had a backlog, in fact i know many have been working unpaid hours to get it done myself included (no that isn’t a sympathy request just a statement of fact) Combine this with a still to be ironed out communication system and we will miss things. We are only human and are by no means perfect.

It’s for those reasons that a nod in the right direction can be of the upmost importance, I genuinely had no idea there was a patch being made let alone seen in testing and frankly when I found out wasn’t impressed to say the least. BUT I did as stated earlier request the information which my manager then chased up until we had a reply (5 days later) for the benefit of the person who asked I posted the news on the 8th, the patch was out on the 13th

I realise that since this discussion has opened WK has had a hunt through to find some threads at Ubi where the question was asked about the patch and did find one. Yes it should’ve been spotted at the time, for whatever reason it wasn’t and sadly nobody made direct contact to make sure it was seen. PC GRAW gamers have contacted me about so many other things yet no one sent a link to that thread and said ‘hey klean… you gonna answer this or what’

Ultimately the point is things are changing… if people don’t want to use the forums that’s their choice, if they don’t want to play the games that’s their choice BUT if people want to be angry about that choice it needs to be for the right reasons and not because of a misunderstanding. If you want to be angry about what happened 6 months ago, 1yr, 2yrs and beyond again that is your choice from your experience and one I cannot and will not try to change. But if there is upset over a situation taking place since I started I will to the best of my ability make sure there is no confusion over what happened if nothing else so you are annoyed for the right reasons and not the wrong ones.

Hopefully I've coverd everyones point, sorry if i missed any

One other thing really, it's not really about which forum or in this case which website (fansite or actual game site) gets the information first, it's about getting information period.

I agree, the only reason that issue can into discussion is that GR.net had the patch info because it was posted on Ubi contrary to the point here that the Ubi forums don’t provide news.

Re: Your comments about information.....a continual stream of information is very evident in the R6 forums, and in regard to the comments about communication on the SC forums you should note I have responded to that thread

Edited February 29, 2008 by kleaneasy

[Rocky]

Who posted first about the patch is really neither here not there, it was good of Kleaneasy to take the time to post here about it - she didn't have to do that.

I could have posted that info anytime, it was made available a few days earlier, but we have a relationship with Ubisoft, and that means not posting anything ahead of time.

As Kleaneasy already posted, if we start going down the "GR.net rules Ubi sucks" then it's a lose lose sitution. We put a tonne of work in to keeping these forums civil, up to date and a good place for fans to visit, if people appreciate that and keep coming back- superb, but it doesn't mean we should start bad mouthing any other forum.

What I do have a problem with is the apparent lack of respect that Ubisoft has for it's fans, it comes across more like derision than appreciation. This is clearly seen by recent events such as Colin's departure, and prior to that the many anti-ubisoft posts.

I've expressed this privately to Ubisoft contacts over the years, but it's reached such a point now that it's hard to see a way back for this particular PC franchise.

That's the downside, the upside is the GR1 revivial! Long Live GR!

[ruggbutt]

i was banned from the forums in those days by "can't remember his name" - I think he banned you too lol.

Bullet Tooth. He lost his job. Part of the reason was I write really good letters and send them certified. When a community manager acts in a way that might be litigious threat of legal action gets people's attention.

[Rocky]

i was banned from the forums in those days by "can't remember his name" - I think he banned you too lol.

Bullet Tooth. He lost his job. Part of the reason was I write really good letters and send them certified. When a community manager acts in a way that might be litigious threat of legal action gets people's attention.

That's the one thing Bullet Tooth did I agreed with.

Joking.

That guy was a joke and set the Ubi forums back years.

[krise madsen]

kleaneasy,

I for one appreciate the the hard work done by the admins and moderators. They are often unappreciated and we forum members can be a bloody ungrateful lot at times. They're not the problem. Ubisoft is.

There is no nice way to say this. They suck at PR, pure and simple. They're horrible at it. It doesn't matter all that much, unless you actually want interaction with your customers.

I have it from reliable sorces (that have nothing to do with Ubi admins/moderators) that Ubi has a big fat gap in its internal communication system: Input from community feedback doesn't get to those generating output. It doesn't matter if those collecting feedback carefully gathers input and relay it. It doesn't matter if those creating the output carefully consider any input they get. Because somewhere in the organisation the lines of communication are cut.

And as mentioned before, Ubi sucks at PR. It was actually Colin who posted a link to the crymod forums where people have been waiting for a mod SDK for Crysis since the game was released. When this happened recently, the release was accompanied by a letter from the CryTek CEO Cevat Yerli where he not only admitted that they had screwed up some things (hence the delay), but also have his personal apology to the community. If Ubisoft ever did something like that I fear I'd have a heart attack.

I appreciate the work being done on the Ubi forums. But unless Ubisoft is willing to release information, there isn't much info for the admins/moderators to convey to the community. It doesn't really concern me any more though. Since it has become certain that the GR series will not be returning to its roots, I have no reason to frequent it. I wish the best for the Ubi forum staff and forum members but it has nothing to offer me, and I have nothing to offer in return, hence my depature.

Except for one thing: The separate PC GRAW issue. I'm NOT looking for anyone to blame or anything like that (at least not any more), but it intrigues and fascinates me to no end:

What were the reasons for Ubisoft deciding to create an entirely separate PC version of GRAW? I should think this solution was rather more expensive than simply porting GRAW from the 360, so there has to have been some compelling reason to go through the expense and trouble of doing this. Yet creating something akin to [GR] was definately not on the table. What was the reasoning and the information (including wishes of the community) availible to the decision makers? I've tried, but I simply can't make sense of the issue. It just doesn't add up. And it fascinates me to no end. If Ubisoft is really serious about communicating with the community, they can start by answering that one.

Respectfully

krise madsen

[kleaneasy]

Krise I don’t think anyone would argue the gap was huge lol, its getting much smaller though and will continue to do so. The problem as I’ve said before is you can’t fix that kind of problem overnight, I know the A Team always managed to create a armoured tank from a few pieces of straw but I’m not BA Baracus

A lot of the questions raised here I can’t answer (including why GRIN developed PC GRAW and not RSE) because they again reflect issues long past that I have no experience or knowledge of. But that is where the problem lays; many for fair reasons have strong feelings and opinions that run very deep and an improvement over at Ubisoft forums won’t change those feelings for those people, in fact it’s likely the only thing that would is actually having a game in your hand that has been developed with what you want in mind and until that actually materialises I don’t imagine those who feel as they do will change their opinion.

Now don’t get me wrong I am not saying they should, what I am saying is I do understand how far that feeling runs. I can only address issues which take place here and now, and continue to feedback the opinions expressed.