Ubi forums takes a turn for the worse

[NoQuarter]

OT:

...will there be another patch for GRAW2?

So yes there would have to be another patch.

I`m betting it is being worked on right now too.

Not to rain on the collective parade but...have you noticed the retention/attrition rate at GRIN in the last year? Alot of the old hands have jumped ship. Forgotten about the supposed bad blood between the pub/dev? Or of the development of BC?

This is an uneducated guess, but I wouldn't bet the farm on any additional support/content-it is more likely than not that they (Ubi/GRIN) have both decided to cut their losses on this one.

Still...hoping to be proven wrong, the state of my crashlog is reaching critical mass

[ROCO*AFZ*]

I knew about blk_widow's position right about the time she started. I was asked to create her an account her and send her the log in information, which I did. Since she posted here today for the first time, I guess she got it. However, I was told that she would be a regular presence here and at Ubi forums and would be very interactive with the members. I don't see what I was told happening here.

I have to tell you I tried for months to log on and it didn't happen so I gave up but I was here. Just as a viewer... It finally worked for me the other day though.

I will be vulnerable and let you all know that as a console gamer it can be very hard to answer computer specific related questions like checking the right settings. This however, does not mean that I don't understand or care about the issues that you have with the changes in GRAW, problems with patches and general concerns. You generally speaking have similar points of view and explain your issues so we can deduct the problems or communicate to others about the problems you are having. It's not hard to tell an experienced GR player from a new one. You guys/gals really put your heart and soul into this game.

[Edit: Quote fixed]

an easy way to tell is look at our join date here + post count. The most experienced one's joined in 2002 - 2004 and have posted ever since. (without being banned)

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

an easy way to tell is look at our join date here + post count. The most experienced one's joined in 2002 - 2004 and have posted ever since. (without being banned)

2002 would be hard as the forum went down and everyone had to re register in January 2003.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

an easy way to tell is look at our join date here + post count. The most experienced one's joined in 2002 - 2004 and have posted ever since. (without being banned)

2002 would be hard as the forum went down and everyone had to re register in January 2003.

That explains my Jan 8 registration... Thought i was here before that LOL. been so long i forgot.

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

Also explains why the post count of some of the modding pioneers are a bit lower then they could have been.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

Anyone else feel like PC gamers get a kick in the nutz everytime (every week or 2 at least) the consolers get an update such as Ghost Recon Legacy and CO-op stuff like today, while we pc gamers just sit and wish.

(Another example of where UBI is failing us as PC gamers)

[Papa6]

Anyone else feel like PC gamers get a kick in the nutz everytime (every week or 2 at least) the consolers get an update such as Ghost Recon Legacy and CO-op stuff like today, while we pc gamers just sit and wish.

(Another example of where UBI is failing us as PC gamers)

You aren't saying anything we haven't been saying for years.

[FI_FlimFlam]

I'd thought since it's loosely related, I'd post a link to an article about Publisher Ranking based on game rankings. You might be wanting to draw a direct parallel to UBI tanking PC gaming and their decline in ratings but that would be a mistake as the rankings include all games and the article does not single out PC or console specifically. Infact it doesnt mention PC at all that I recall. Still it's interesting to note that UBISofts average game ranking has dropped over the last 2 years (starting from the 2005 rank). While lower ratings could be a sign of taking chances (yeah right UBISoft going out on a limb? hahaha) it could also be an indicator of game quality not only in design but bugs and what hits home with the consumer. Evidently, UBISoft is missing something and has been sliding from their previous mark. Maybe they should listen to the fanbase for a change and actually try to make a HIGH Qualilty game and not just pump out another imitation of some other publisher's successful game to meet a deadline. They should focus on making the game as bug free as possible, and give the respective platform community the support it needs to be a great game. It's a shame when things like poor backend support and bugs kill a game but UBI just doesn't get it. They'd rather just throw the game out half baked and barely working just to get on base just to save a few bucks and/or meet a street date.. Maybe they think it's better to do that than work to knock the ball out of the park with taking some more time and spending a little more. Perhaps, it's things like this that have led to their decline in rankings.

Kleaneasy are you listening? Black Widow? Maybe you should pass this on up the chain. Of course it won't matter because all evidence points to the fact that UBI will continue on it's current half-finished, barely tested, mostly working releases.

The article:

http://next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_c...mp;limitstart=0

Edited March 4, 2008 by FI_FlimFlam

[Papa6]

I'd thought since it's loosely related, I'd post a link to an article about Publisher Ranking based on game rankings. You might be wanting to draw a direct parallel to UBI tanking PC gaming and their decline in ratings but that would be a mistake as the rankings include all games and the article does not single out PC or console specifically. Infact it doesnt mention PC at all that I recall. Still it's interesting to note that UBISofts average game ranking has dropped over the last 2 years (starting from the 2005 rank). While lower ratings could be a sign of taking chances (yeah right UBISoft going out on a limb? hahaha) it could also be an indicator of game quality not only in design but bugs and what hits home with the consumer. Evidently, UBISoft is missing something and has been sliding from their previous mark. Maybe they should listen to the fanbase for a change and actually try to make a HIGH Qualilty game and not just pump out another imitation of some other publisher's successful game to meet a deadline. They should focus on making the game as bug free as possible, and give the respective platform community the support it needs to be a great game. It's a shame when things like poor backend support and bugs kill a game but UBI just doesn't get it. They'd rather just throw the game out half baked and barely working just to get on base just to save a few bucks and/or meet a street date.. Maybe they think it's better to do that than work to knock the ball out of the park with taking some more time and spending a little more. Perhaps, it's things like this that have led to their decline in rankings.

Kleaneasy are you listening? Black Widow? Maybe you should pass this on up the chain. Of course it won't matter because all evidence points to the fact that UBI will continue on it's current half-finished, barely tested, mostly working releases.

The article:

http://next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_c...mp;limitstart=0

what's interesting is, even if those are just console ratings..they are not doing well at all..PERIOD! I guess game dev companies are alot akin to countries, they have their rise, their properous times then the fall.

[EricJ]

Anyone else feel like PC gamers get a kick in the nutz everytime (every week or 2 at least) the consolers get an update such as Ghost Recon Legacy and CO-op stuff like today, while we pc gamers just sit and wish.

(Another example of where UBI is failing us as PC gamers)

But then again... you can find a great [GR] mod anywhere.... kinda makes you wonder why an old game like that still inspires people to waste time on it, wheareas well... yeah it's all been said before... But I'm glad GRAW2 is off my Hard drive, stuff like DCS: Black Shark (okay, Flanker 2.51 and Lock On, BS isn't out yet....) is more worthwhile. While modding that has never been easy, least there's more fun involved and more room for creativity than this series so far, with the exception of [GR].

[blk_widow9]

I'd thought since it's loosely related, I'd post a link to an article about Publisher Ranking based on game rankings. You might be wanting to draw a direct parallel to UBI tanking PC gaming and their decline in ratings but that would be a mistake as the rankings include all games and the article does not single out PC or console specifically. Infact it doesnt mention PC at all that I recall. Still it's interesting to note that UBISofts average game ranking has dropped over the last 2 years (starting from the 2005 rank). While lower ratings could be a sign of taking chances (yeah right UBISoft going out on a limb? hahaha) it could also be an indicator of game quality not only in design but bugs and what hits home with the consumer. Evidently, UBISoft is missing something and has been sliding from their previous mark. Maybe they should listen to the fanbase for a change and actually try to make a HIGH Qualilty game and not just pump out another imitation of some other publisher's successful game to meet a deadline. They should focus on making the game as bug free as possible, and give the respective platform community the support it needs to be a great game. It's a shame when things like poor backend support and bugs kill a game but UBI just doesn't get it. They'd rather just throw the game out half baked and barely working just to get on base just to save a few bucks and/or meet a street date.. Maybe they think it's better to do that than work to knock the ball out of the park with taking some more time and spending a little more. Perhaps, it's things like this that have led to their decline in rankings.

Kleaneasy are you listening? Black Widow? Maybe you should pass this on up the chain. Of course it won't matter because all evidence points to the fact that UBI will continue on it's current half-finished, barely tested, mostly working releases.

The article:

http://next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_c...mp;limitstart=0

You are not the first to voice your concerns and it has been noted. Thanks

[IrishStout]

You are not the first to voice your concerns and it has been noted. Thanks

I have a feeling he won't be the last time either... it's like talking to a deaf person.

Who just continualy nodes his head up and down.

[RAbbi_74]

You are not the first to voice your concerns and it has been noted. Thanks

And at that, I cast my hat into the ring...

We KNOW. The first to voice his/her concerns with Ubishaft may well have passed away from old age by now. We've been complaining (ok, WHINING) for YEARS, literally. Remember GR2 for PC? I'll spell it out- GHOST RECON 2 for the PERSONAL COMPUTER. We begged for it, and we got zilch. GHOST RECON ADVANCED WARFIGHTER- it shipped in BETA form at best, and never became anything I'd have personally let ship. The GRIN bunch did what they could here, but who do you suppose pulled the plug on THAT abortion of a video game? Yeah. And now the namesake of this particular forum, GHOST RECON ADVANCED WARFIGHTER 2. Not much has changed since the last game. MANY (though not all, and we can thank GRIN for what they HAVE managed to fix) bugs remain which have been present in the game since it's first day on the shelf. The sad part is that was nearly a year ago, four updates ago, and what we have now is almost as bugged as it was the day the first consumer got his/her hands on it.

I know Ubi NOTES a lot of concerns. But do they LISTEN? Do they ever actually give a damn that the folks out here who pumped a lot of money and love into their titles at the onset of this century are largely convinced that they've been left out? Does UBI care?

I just finished a pretty good book. With no decent GR game out there except the 7 year-old original, I've had some time to catch up on my reading. Stay with me here. Have you ever read the novel, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey? If not, pick it up right away and give it a read. I mention it because if the book's story were laid over thi situation with fans and Ubishaft, then Ubi would most certainly be the Big Nurse. In the end she gets her way, most of us bail out and wonder why we stayed so long in the first place, and the great one gets lobotomized.

Sounds REALLY familiar...

(And if you happen to have the opportunity to bend the ear of any UBI folks, thank them for destroying the Tom Clancy game franchises. They won't LISTEN or CARE, but they'll NOTE it I'm sure...)

[Big]

Sorry but couldn't resist it RAbbi:

One Flew Over the Cuckoo's NEST (Author: Ken Kesey)

check it's NEST not NEXT

And probably there are more people who has watched the movie with Jack Nicholson than those who read the book.

Edit: Oopps i see u fixed it

Edited March 5, 2008 by Big

[Papa6]

I think what Rabbi is saying in general overall, Ubi has bent an ear and say they've heard our concerns. The reality is that, they say they heard but, they ignored what their loyal customers have said.

On my own part, I think Ubisoft got so impatient with the lack of money, a return on their investment that, they threw GRAW/GRAW2 out the door and then threw a fishing net, trying to grab in as much money as they could. this is the kind of thing that has made Ubisoft the nightmare it is.

I have crysis which will stay alive alot longer than GRAW/GRAW2 because they(EA) support their games. but the editor is fine tuned and refined unlike GRAW2.

But as a testament(to get back on topic) the mess with UBI games and the apparent trash forums(not directing this at kleaneasy) of UBISOFT that, with the GR2PC debacle, has changed the ubi forums so much that I have heard and seen where peoples posts get deleted because people feel they've been ripped off and to show dissatisfaction which, ubi didn't want to hear. I just can't see UBISOFT surviving the PC game development with the trash they put out.

People have complained about the 3rd person corner peeking in Vegas only to have UBISOFT put it in Vegas2. seems fascist to me. YOU WILL LIKE WHAT WE GIVE YOU mentality or else. I've gone back to ravenshield and enjoy a good tactical CQB battle now and then. the tom clancy franchises being jacked up could be due to the new generation of developers who work at UBISOFT, the new generation of developers bring in these changes which have taken what was tactical and made them cinematic like movies.

[Colin]

Some one said to me today the PC side died after Ubisoft bought RSE.

Looking back at the pc cancelled version 2 then perhapes they are right.

So between 2003 and now we still wait for a proper sequel to a game we loved.

I really believe now it wont happen, I actually believe Ubi cant do it. The proof really is the last 4 years.

So moveing on is really the only option if we want a game that has the game elements of GR1, I have accepted this and indeed have moved on to a Dev Team that will deliver the game I want to play.

The game is being made with direct interaction with its fan base, by its dev team, with no restrictions on what they talk about, and how the game will be made with the fan base in mind and at the forefront of its development.

This in my opionion will help deliver tha game we crave for and in style.

[Papa6]

Colin, I'm thoroughly convinced that Ubisoft thought that if they bought RSE, they'd be rolling in the big money and hording the money all themselves. RSE makes a great title, UBISOFT sees an opportunity to cash in on a cash cow.

Got a good game? let us buy you out and we'll make it better. now, with that in mind, RSE being a UBISOFT entity, why would anyone in this world hire outside help to make a game that RSE, who you bought out, made in the first place? I'm under the impression that who ever is making the decisions at UBISOFT isn't a PC gamer. That or, Whoever makes the decisions on the PC side, is purposely set out to railroad the PC games.

NOTHING Ubisoft makes anymore for the PC amounts to anything. I bet if BFS makes a popular game, UBISOFT would pursue THEM, to buy them out and promise big money in return for the UBISOFT name.

[Fletch]

I have waited years for a sequel to the Great Game that was Ghost Recon, in the mean time I was given GR:AW which I had a lot of fun with but it was not Ghost Recon and got put on the shelf after playing it 1 time. Then came along GR:AW2 and I had fun playing it as well but Again it was not Ghost Recon.

Maybe There will soon be a GR:AW3 but I will not have fun playing it because I won't buy it untill I read in this forum from the Experienced [Ghost Recon] players that the gods have finally smiled upon us.

Edited March 6, 2008 by Fletch

[ROCO*AFZ*]

Some one said to me today the PC side died after Ubisoft bought RSE.

Looking back at the pc cancelled version 2 then perhapes they are right.

So between 2003 and now we still wait for a proper sequel to a game we loved.

I really believe now it wont happen, I actually believe Ubi cant do it. The proof really is the last 4 years.

So moveing on is really the only option if we want a game that has the game elements of GR1, I have accepted this and indeed have moved on to a Dev Team that will deliver the game I want to play.

The game is being made with direct interaction with its fan base, by its dev team, with no restrictions on what they talk about, and how the game will be made with the fan base in mind and at the forefront of its development.

This in my opionion will help deliver tha game we crave for and in style.

It died when RSE made SOAF which was based on the GR1 engine. We thought it was a fluke, then GR2 canceled. GRAW1 came out but was above our system requirements and not finished nor had any of the old gametypes till later. Still was a fun game but the GL bug killed laddering which took a long time to patch. GRAW1 was though a fun game and in TDM was not that buggy at the end.

GRAW2 - they removed autodownloading... a feature we fought for in GRAW1 that Grin delivered. Server issues like the pink diamond made laddering difficult. Iron vegetation also did not appeal (Last patch fixed that on some of the maps). Still a fun game though for MP.

For those that say it's not Ghost recon though ... i have to say this. You have Ghost Recon, go and play it lol! If you want GR1 bugs fixed, start a petition to have the source open sourced so you or some dev can fix it yourself.

[WhiteKnight77]

One has to wonder why three developers do not want to have anything else to do with Ubi?

[krise madsen]

In fairness, it must be said that while Ubi has failed to create a game with the qualities of GR1, so has everyone else - so far. The difference is of course that Ubi, owning G1 lock stock and a barrel had a rather more convenient starting point than anyone else.

I can't really blame Ubi for not making another GR1 style tactical shooter. They decided to move in another direction *shrugs* well that's their choice. It did create some rather messy brand issues (with the Ghost Recon name on the box, PC players expected something else than they got) but stuff happens. They decided that the brand was strong enough for a major console franchise and that a console game would be more of a cinematic experience and less of a tactical shooter. Had I been in the shoes of the Ubi exec's in charge of the investors money, I could very well have made the same decision.

As a tactical shooter fan, I didn't like that. Not because console players got a Ghost Recon branded game or that the Ghost Recon name was slapped on something that clearly wasn't a GR1 style tactical shooter. Their IP, their choice. What I didn't like was that I didn't get another GR1 style game for PC, whatever the name. But again, I can hardly blame Ubi for not making the game I wanted them to make. TBH, I'm not sure they could if they wanted to, the fact that nobody else have would indicate this.

That said, I am puzzled by Ubi's choices. GR1 was obviously a considerable commercial success. And for a business known to go for the safe, proven concept, this abandonment of the hardcore tactical shooter does seem somewhat odd.

More than anything, I'm really puzzled by what made Ubi create the separate PC version of GRAW. It must have been obvious from the start that this wasn't going to be the hardcore tactical shooter that GR1 was, yet nor was it going to be the obviously very successful action shooter that GRAW 360 was.

So why this middle-ground? Why wasn't GRAW PC simply a 360 port? Or alternatively, why didn't it simply copy the tried and proven hardcore shooter concept of GR1? Unless someone can convince me otherwise, creating a separate PC version must have been considerably more expensive than simply porting the 360 version so there must have been some desire to create something different for the PC. It just doesn't add up for me and I find it most intriguing.

Respectfully

krise madsen

[FI_FlimFlam]

Kris,

I think you see the picture that some don't. UBI doesn't owe anyone anything. They are a business. And businesses want to make money or even more money. Given the comercial success of Black Arrow on the XBOX and GR on the Xbox, they saw the potential to make the series grow. Also, from a sales standpoint (esp in regards to piracy) the consoles were and still are a much safer bet. (See: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1263 for some real scary numbers based on a single day of 1 bittorrent site)

You can bet that UBI and other publishers see or are beginning to see the PC platform as nearly rotting limb. It's not worth it to develop for it. Hence the desire to spend as little money on games for it as possible. This is easier when they can develop for the 360 and virtually run it on a PC. Very little investment is needed to port it. It's also why PC games like Vegas and Splinter Cell:DA were in terrible shape and lacking PC specific features. It also explains why UBI was/is reluctant to support PC titles beyond a minimum few months. All this in hopes to see enough to offset the porting costs and make a little money when it is all said and done. I completely understand why UBI is doing what they are doing from a business standpoint and you know what... It sucks. But there is nothing I can do about it but shake my head and wish all the pirating gamers' computers would suddenly crash permanently.

What was interesting was to see how UBI handled GRAW. I think UBI tried. Yes you read correctly. I think UBI tried to give the PC community a game they wanted. Which was the impetus for hiring GRIN and paying for a PC specfic version. And I think GRAW and GRAW2 were mostly there in several areas. The problem with the the game was hey made bad design decisions that didn't improve the game overall even given the enhancements. They added multiple objectives but removed squads and custom loadouts in COOP. Also they made it harder to admin - dropped autodownload, no remote admin, no decent logging - but they did add screenshots. Was it time or was it money or was it simply a producers decision? Who know the real reason but it goes back to Roco's post and my earlier statements about quality for the specific platform and providing the community with a relatively bug-free game with the backend functionality that it needs.

I realize that we are for the current time frame going to get ports. What UBI and it producers need to realize is that regardless of whether or not we like the concept they need to technically pull off game and give it (on the destination platform) the features that it needs for success. While I really didn't like Vegas or it's design, many people did (unfortunately) and it brought many new crossover players to the series. Which is good from a business point of view for UBI (trust me I hate admitting that). What wasn't good were the technical issues that hamstrung the game on the PC. Not just framerates but the game was simply not given what it needed to be anything more than a buggy single player game on the PC. It could have thriving community around it, if it had matched the backend of successful shooters. If it had been tested in a meaningful, gameplay bugs would have been better addressed (at least console specific menu options would have been removed at release). Then if they had a useable and rich dedicated server and map editors like COD4, RvS, Bf2, etc etc. There would be a rich community surrounding the game and copies still moving off the shelf.

But then the piracy vs investment issue creeps back up and you have to at some point see the catch-22 here for any business.

In regards to GR2. People need to get over it IMO. That was a wise decision by UBI to NOT put it out on PC. Those of you complaining about GRAW1/2 and blasting BUI for not publishing GR2 on PC would have been first in line to complain how that one wasn't GR - because it wasn't. Let's see 3 or 4 man squad, 3rd person view, over the top hollywood story, future weapon systems... Oh wait that sounds familiar doesn't it? For some miracle, UBI realized that it wasn't the game the community was asking for and pulled the plug. After playing it on the XBOX, I said good riddance was glad not to have it on the PC because it was a DRASTIC change from GR1.

[krise madsen]

What was interesting was to see how UBI handled GRAW. I think UBI tried. Yes you read correctly. I think UBI tried to give the PC community a game they wanted. Which was the impetus for hiring GRIN and paying for a PC specfic version.

It's a possibility, but why not just copy GR1 then? Switching to story-driven, linear gameplay must have been a concious decision. It just doesn't add up.

In regards to GR2. People need to get over it IMO. That was a wise decision by UBI to NOT put it out on PC. Those of you complaining about GRAW1/2 and blasting BUI for not publishing GR2 on PC would have been first in line to complain how that one wasn't GR - because it wasn't. Let's see 3 or 4 man squad, 3rd person view, over the top hollywood story, future weapon systems... Oh wait that sounds familiar doesn't it? For some miracle, UBI realized that it wasn't the game the community was asking for and pulled the plug. After playing it on the XBOX, I said good riddance was glad not to have it on the PC because it was a DRASTIC change from GR1.

If GR2 was indeed cancelled for being too much of an "arcade shooter", that just makes the whole affair even more puzzling. Does that mean that Ubi knew that what the PC community wanted was something very close to GR1?

Respectfully

krise madsen

[kleaneasy]

Maybe There will soon be a GR:AW3

I have said this on Ubi but just to confirm there is not a GRAW 3 in development so this will not happen

[RAbbi_74]

Maybe There will soon be a GR:AW3

I have said this on Ubi but just to confirm there is not a GRAW 3 in development so this will not happen

Some of the best news I've yet read in this forum...