Jump to content

Ubi forums takes a turn for the worse


krise madsen
 Share

Recommended Posts

In regards to GR2. People need to get over it IMO. That was a wise decision by UBI to NOT put it out on PC. Those of you complaining about GRAW1/2 and blasting BUI for not publishing GR2 on PC would have been first in line to complain how that one wasn't GR - because it wasn't. Let's see 3 or 4 man squad, 3rd person view, over the top hollywood story, future weapon systems... Oh wait that sounds familiar doesn't it? For some miracle, UBI realized that it wasn't the game the community was asking for and pulled the plug. After playing it on the XBOX, I said good riddance was glad not to have it on the PC because it was a DRASTIC change from GR1.

Possibly, but the main benefit of releasing it may have been that the numerous GR modders could have just used it as an upgraded graphics engine and put it back to what GR was. I played GR2 on my 360...my first console experience since Sega Genesis, it was tough just getting use to the controls, but it virtually was the same game. Nice sound and graphics, you can even go first person no weapon view. On the downside, the missions were sort of flat and completely linear, the 4 man squad felt strange. Now Summit Strike was much better and felt like GR to me, minus the 4 man sqaud thing.

There are a lot of good things about the Grin Graws, but I'll always wonder if a direct port would have been better overall. I think the intentions were good but half baked as the long term support is miniscule compared to what the 360 gets. At least if there was a PC port version, maps would still be coming out, possible mods even. The really weird thing about GRAW 360 is the sp and mp are two different games. Even the graphics are slightly different...the feel is definetly different...same, but different. 360Graw Mp is GR, 360Graw Sp is..well, I'm not sure what it is...just a game I guess.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 217
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

The fact that GRAW on the consoles are 2 different games, using 2 different engines is a no go for us PC gamers who want to play the SP campaign in Coop mode for MP. We do not want to have a seperate Coop campaign that is 4 missions long while SP is 8 or more long.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In fairness, it must be said that while Ubi has failed to create a game with the qualities of GR1, so has everyone else - so far. The difference is of course that Ubi, owning G1 lock stock and a barrel had a rather more convenient starting point than anyone else.

I can't really blame Ubi for not making another GR1 style tactical shooter. They decided to move in another direction *shrugs* well that's their choice. It did create some rather messy brand issues (with the Ghost Recon name on the box, PC players expected something else than they got) but stuff happens. They decided that the brand was strong enough for a major console franchise and that a console game would be more of a cinematic experience and less of a tactical shooter. Had I been in the shoes of the Ubi exec's in charge of the investors money, I could very well have made the same decision.

As a tactical shooter fan, I didn't like that. Not because console players got a Ghost Recon branded game or that the Ghost Recon name was slapped on something that clearly wasn't a GR1 style tactical shooter. Their IP, their choice. What I didn't like was that I didn't get another GR1 style game for PC, whatever the name. But again, I can hardly blame Ubi for not making the game I wanted them to make. TBH, I'm not sure they could if they wanted to, the fact that nobody else have would indicate this.

That said, I am puzzled by Ubi's choices. GR1 was obviously a considerable commercial success. And for a business known to go for the safe, proven concept, this abandonment of the hardcore tactical shooter does seem somewhat odd.

More than anything, I'm really puzzled by what made Ubi create the separate PC version of GRAW. It must have been obvious from the start that this wasn't going to be the hardcore tactical shooter that GR1 was, yet nor was it going to be the obviously very successful action shooter that GRAW 360 was.

So why this middle-ground? Why wasn't GRAW PC simply a 360 port? Or alternatively, why didn't it simply copy the tried and proven hardcore shooter concept of GR1? Unless someone can convince me otherwise, creating a separate PC version must have been considerably more expensive than simply porting the 360 version so there must have been some desire to create something different for the PC. It just doesn't add up for me and I find it most intriguing.

Respectfully

krise madsen

Krise

Sometimes a port is not the solution remember the R6 Lockdown fiasco?

the game came like 6 months late on the PC plataform and we know the story after that.

The game was pretty on the gfx department and also was easy on min requirements

but aside of that nothing else to see

Even though the game was a port it came so broken out of the box

and UBI never supported that game after the first and only patch they release for it

I was surprise when I saw that dumb AI

mod support with no support <-----they never release a sdk and plug ins so the modders can fix that dissaster

4 man Coop <-----lock down is based on gr2/grss engine and those games on the console support up to 16 players

I won't even mention what players have to endure to connect to a server if they find one

I'm glad I never paid for that one (given to me by a friend that got upset with the game)

My last UBISOFT product on the PC arena was Raven Shield....by the way lockdown was the last product that RSE released for the PC plataform to this date.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Krise

Sometimes a port is not the solution remember the R6 Lockdown fiasco?

the game came like 6 months late on the PC plataform and we know the story after that.

The game was pretty on the gfx department and also was easy on min requirements

but aside of that nothing else to see

Even though the game was a port it came so broken out of the box

and UBI never supported that game after the first and only patch they release for it

I was surprise when I saw that dumb AI

mod support with no support <-----they never release a sdk and plug ins so the modders can fix that dissaster

4 man Coop <-----lock down is based on gr2/grss engine and those games on the console support up to 16 players

I won't even mention what players have to endure to connect to a server if they find one

I'm glad I never paid for that one (given to me by a friend that got upset with the game)

My last UBISOFT product on the PC arena was Raven Shield....by the way lockdown was the last product that RSE released for the PC plataform to this date.

Yeah, Lockdown wan't pretty was it? But that's not really the point. Vegas was an OK port (apart from some bug issues). Certainly not the kind of R6 game I wanted (I never liked RVS which was not enough old school for my taste), but I have to admit that in its own right (a linear shooter with a very simple squad system for the mentally impaired) Vegas was an OK game.

The thing is that GRAW PC was supposed to do something that GRAW 360 couldn't. It must have been a considerable expense, even compared to reworking the 360 port (i.e. porting it properly). I refuse to believe that Ubi simply threw money at a separate PC version on a whim. There has to have been a logical reason but I simply can't find one.

Respectfully

krise madsen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe There will soon be a GR:AW3

I have said this on Ubi but just to confirm there is not a GRAW 3 in development so this will not happen ;)

Some of the best news I've yet read in this forum... ;)

Not really good news... That means there is nothing new for our clan to ladder in, in the Ghost Recon series. :(

Now i'm stuck with a decision. Ladder in COD 4 and live with the cheats ... i mean perks...

End Wars won't be a clan game. Sound's like AFZ's days may be limited.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe There will soon be a GR:AW3

I have said this on Ubi but just to confirm there is not a GRAW 3 in development so this will not happen ;)

Some of the best news I've yet read in this forum... ;)

Not really good news... That means there is nothing new for our clan to ladder in, in the Ghost Recon series. :(

Now i'm stuck with a decision. Ladder in COD 4 and live with the cheats ... i mean perks...

End Wars won't be a clan game. Sound's like AFZ's days may be limited.

:shifty: Read it again.... it just says there isn’t a GR:AW 3 in development ;)

It doesn’t say there isn’t a "GR" title in development :whistle: But thats something for one of the numerous other threads

*But UBI has a mountain of making up to do, before we can even start to think of getting excited by any new games they ever publish again

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Krise

Sometimes a port is not the solution remember the R6 Lockdown fiasco?

the game came like 6 months late on the PC plataform and we know the story after that.

The game was pretty on the gfx department and also was easy on min requirements

but aside of that nothing else to see

Even though the game was a port it came so broken out of the box

and UBI never supported that game after the first and only patch they release for it

I was surprise when I saw that dumb AI

mod support with no support <-----they never release a sdk and plug ins so the modders can fix that dissaster

4 man Coop <-----lock down is based on gr2/grss engine and those games on the console support up to 16 players

I won't even mention what players have to endure to connect to a server if they find one

I'm glad I never paid for that one (given to me by a friend that got upset with the game)

My last UBISOFT product on the PC arena was Raven Shield....by the way lockdown was the last product that RSE released for the PC plataform to this date.

Yeah, Lockdown wan't pretty was it? But that's not really the point. Vegas was an OK port (apart from some bug issues). Certainly not the kind of R6 game I wanted (I never liked RVS which was not enough old school for my taste), but I have to admit that in its own right (a linear shooter with a very simple squad system for the mentally impaired) Vegas was an OK game.

The thing is that GRAW PC was supposed to do something that GRAW 360 couldn't. It must have been a considerable expense, even compared to reworking the 360 port (i.e. porting it properly). I refuse to believe that Ubi simply threw money at a separate PC version on a whim. There has to have been a logical reason but I simply can't find one.

Respectfully

krise madsen

Agreed!!!

To tell you the true I really enjoyed multiplayer COOP with GR2/GRSS on xbox LIVE, with the right people

the experience was as tactical as [GR] on the PC but the single player was just OKish

I remember when members here in the forums started to complain about GR2 been a port back in 2005 and thats why maybe the game got cancel and they just decided to outsource GRAW to GRIN

My hopes are now with BFS and Ground Branch

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread has got me thinking about the decisions UBI has made in regards to the Ghost Recon/GRAW series.

I use to wonder what UBI gathered from reading any forum relating to GR. I do know people higher then Community managers or Forum managers read them. At one time I was a forum moderator at gr.com

That position is much like being a roller rink monitor, simply keep the peace. Being in the know about anything it is not. But in around about way, the then Community manager let the forum moderators know people above him were reading the forums and not always pleased with what they read.

I have always thought that they never acted on most things suggested in forums, if they read them...they never took note.

But the possibility has occurred to me recently,

that in their own inept way, they have listened and tried to please the community but simply got it completely wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There has to have been a logical reason but I simply can't find one.

They wanted to make a good game for a specific corner of their fanbase. :shrug:

Nobody sets out and says 'let's make a 7.2 average game that's criticized for it's inconsistent AI systems and seemingly irrelevant tactical systems'. Ubiosoft isn't some kind of a hive mind -- and it wasn't just Ubi, GRIN was involved too.

Games are hard to make. Let alone perfect games. Hundreds and hundreds of people, if you count both ubi and GRIN's side of things, touched the development and sales of this game in one way or another. There were a lot of logistical and financial concerns -- and let's not forget, GRIN had their hands tied by ubi and ubi couldn't directly change or fix choices and mistakes grin made. That's a hard situation for both teams involved.

I don't think there's some mysterious motivation or evil scheme at play. I think they just did their best and put out a solid game that got good reviews but disappointed a lot of people, and sold okay, but not incredibly.

wombat50: Don't forget that the changes to the GR/Rainbow franchises were tremendous financial successes. Just because we may have loved GR doesn't mean that Graw1/2 on the 360 and RB6v didn't score incredibly with reviewers, win awards, and sell a ton of copies. Their decisions, whether we like them or not, worked out very well for the business.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember a wise man once told me, Stupid is as stupid does. It wasn't Forrest Gump. But The REAL big point is, if a company wants to release SUB-standard, Beta software, that's on them. I haven't bought anymore UBISOFT titles nor do I intend to. Whoever made the decision(s) to release GRAW/GRAW2 in the states they were, should be fired. What a waste of money and resources. I came to understand it's not Grin's fault. It's UBI's because they made ALL the decisions.

I wonder besides this community here but, how many people are fed up with UBIShaft? I left GRAW2 with only 3 REALLY busy servers. there were alot of servers with goose eggs.

The 6 P's were not in effect in the development of GRAW/GRAW2 on UBI's part. <_<

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think there's some mysterious motivation or evil scheme at play.

Neither do I. I think it was based on logic and carefully weighing various factors against each other. My problem is that this logic simply doesn't add up.

Let's go back to the time when the last GR1 expansion pack had been released:

GR2 was created for consoles, but the PC version dragged on and was eventually cancelled. Why? Were there technical issues in getting the PC version to run properly? Or did Ubi deem that the version created wouldn't find acceptance with PC gamers? Anyway, it was obvious that Ubi already then knew that PC gamers and console gamers possibly wanted different types of games.

Then came GRAW. The 360 version was a smash hit. It gobbled up awards and sold like hot cakes. Ubi and RSE had clearly created an excellent game. Now, if Ubi truly believed that "a game is a game, regardless of platform", the easiest (and cheapest) thing in the world would have been to simply port the 360 version. Just like they did with R6 Vegas.

But they didn't.

Instead, a 3rd party developer, GRIN, was hired. Time and money were invested to design something specifically for the PC. Evidently, Ubi believed that the PC platform required a custom made game, regardless of how successful the 360 version was.

So, they evidently knew that a different game was needed for the PC. They arguably knew that the PC crowd loved GR1. Then why not blatantly copy everything they could from GR1? They owned the IP. Obviously, they must have weighed arguments for and against all kinds of paths. What were the arguments and parameters that made Ubisoft say "we choose to do it this way (GRAW1)"? I simply can't figure out which arguments would make them choose the way they did, and I'm dying to know. :)

Respectfully

krise madsen

Edited by krise madsen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think there's some mysterious motivation or evil scheme at play.

Instead, a 3rd party developer, GRIN, was hired. Time and money were invested to design something specifically for the PC. Evidently, Ubi believed that the PC platform required a custom made game, regardless of how successful the 360 version was.

So, they evidently knew that a different game was needed for the PC. They arguably knew that the PC crowd loved GR1. Then why not blatantly copy everything they could from GR1? They owned the IP. Obviously, they must have weighed arguments for and against all kinds of paths. What were the arguments and parameters that made Ubisoft say "we choose to do it this way (GRAW1)"? I simply can't figure out which arguments would make them choose the way they did, and I'm dying to know. :)

Respectfully

krise madsen

Yep. Ubi already spent X amount of dollars to make GR2PC, But people were getting ejected in the forums for their..I'll just say their "colorful" out bursts on their forums. that's about when the forums took a nose dive. ever since GR2PC, the ubiforums went south

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then came GRAW. The 360 version was a smash hit. It gobbled up awards and sold like hot cakes. Ubi and RSE had clearly created an excellent game. Now, if Ubi truly believed that "a game is a game, regardless of platform", the easiest (and cheapest) thing in the world would have been to simply port the 360 version. Just like they did with R6 Vegas.

But they didn't.

Instead, a 3rd party developer, GRIN, was hired. Time and money were invested to design something specifically for the PC. Evidently, Ubi believed that the PC platform required a custom made game, regardless of how successful the 360 version was.

One thing here. They didn't know how successful the console version would be of GRAW1 before outsourcing the PC version to Grin. They where developed side by side.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Along with what Wolfsong said, IP development and branding. What do you think people would say if the 'GRAW' franchise game out with two games that had nothing in common with eachother? GRAW PC was suposed to be a slower, less scripted, more tactical version of GRAW's cinematic small team future warrior theme. Just copying GR wouldn't have sit well with anyone, as good as the idea sounds, under the new Advanced Warfighter label.

What i was getting at is that i don't think there was as specific of a '"we choose to do it this way (GRAW1)"' as you do. I could be wrong, but i honestly think the general mission goal was the same with both games. Make the best shooter they could, and please their audience, with a proportionate and efficient investment of time and money. If you judge by Metacritic/gamerankings scores, both games turned out pretty well, i think.

Papa6: You don't cancel a game because a couple hundred people are whining on the internet. Games sell in millions -- a vocal minority isn't a big concern. They cancelled it because for whatever reason (probably freeing up RSE for graw mp was a big part of it, but i don't know) it wasn't worth the continued investment to ubisoft. Maybe it was a choice between a cancel or a delay -- spend hundreds of thousands more dollars and mess up their (at the time, planned) holiday launch for GRAW, or just cut the money and make out with more on their new product? It's impossible to know the exact reasons, but there's generally a sensible business decision behind everything Ubi does. Just look at how much the company is grown -- if any of us were qualified to second guess the Ubisoft executives i doubt we'd be wasting our time on internet forums.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

GR2 for the PC was canceled some 5 months after the release of GR2 for the XBox. RSE was building GR2 for the PC at the same time they were for the box. While forced to put it on the back burner to release the box version, it didn't kill them to create both at the same time, much like they did for the original.

Ubi did cancel GR2 for the PC due to fans not wanting what was made for the box. As someone who can use his head, I along with others didn't want half a screen to flash with arrows pointing out where it was coming from everytime I got shot. That may be fine for 10 year olds, but at 40 something, I can use my head to figure such things out. GR2 was something fans didn't want. Ubi did know that.

I agree with Krise, Ubi knew and yet didn't produce or let a company produce a game that was really wanted. Ubi has the capability to create games for niche markets and successfully sell them as evidenced by the Silent Hunter series and publishing the iL2 series and developing the Blazing Angels series of games. There is no reason why Ubi cannot to the same with the GR and R6 series.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

GR2 for the PC was canceled some 5 months after the release of GR2 for the XBox. RSE was building GR2 for the PC at the same time they were for the box. While forced to put it on the back burner to release the box version, it didn't kill them to create both at the same time, much like they did for the original.

Ubi did cancel GR2 for the PC due to fans not wanting what was made for the box. As someone who can use his head, I along with others didn't want half a screen to flash with arrows pointing out where it was coming from everytime I got shot. That may be fine for 10 year olds, but at 40 something, I can use my head to figure such things out. GR2 was something fans didn't want. Ubi did know that.

I agree with Krise, Ubi knew and yet didn't produce or let a company produce a game that was really wanted. Ubi has the capability to create games for niche markets and successfully sell them as evidenced by the Silent Hunter series and publishing the iL2 series and developing the Blazing Angels series of games. There is no reason why Ubi cannot to the same with the GR and R6 series.

Those indepth details were above my paygrade..lol. But I appreciate some insight like that Whiteknight. I always wondered up to this moment what "Actually" happened. Yeah then I'd say based upon your keen information and my trust in your word that, when UBISOFT bought RSE, that's when it all fell apart. so I'm now seeing the greater picture unlike before. RSE built an outstanding game only to be bought by the likes of UBISOFT and they in turn decided to make the GR franchise what they(UBISOFT) saw or wanted. I would dread the day if BFS should be bought out by UBISOFT if Ground branch should take off. <_<

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And no news on any future GR installment too!

:ph34r:

That is what i mean by no anticipation. Why would clans stick it out if there is no hope for a new expansion game nor even a patch. Instead they look at other games. Some may take there fancy and they don't come back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And no news on any future GR installment too!

:ph34r:

That is what i mean by no anticipation. Why would clans stick it out if there is no hope for a new expansion game nor even a patch. Instead they look at other games. Some may take there fancy and they don't come back.

Yeah, it's rather a shame. I met ALOT of good people when GR1 was the hit. A good game breeds a community of good friends sometimes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think there's some mysterious motivation or evil scheme at play.
I'm not so sure.

You could use that line of argument for :AW, and get away with it...but how do you explain :AW2-after the universal disappointment of the first? (PC)

And no news on any future GR installment too!
GR:AWOL.

GR is/was omega.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you mean GRAW 3, there is nothing in development. If you mean another patch, maps, etc. we are looking into it. :)

If there ever is a a new GR of any type I would request that you and you team get and play the [Ghost Recon] with IT/DS and all the patches. Pay attention to how the game is built, the way its designed to include the openess of the maps and missions that can be approached from any angle or out of order. Those are the features that most of us want in this game. There is also the game play but I think we have all resigned ourselves to the fact we will never see another great tactical shooter of the likes of GR again, due to the fading of us old timers and the fact we're out numbered by the hyped up on sugar run and gun types.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If there ever is a a new GR of any type I would request that you and you team get and play the [Ghost Recon] with IT/DS and all the patches. Pay attention to how the game is built, the way its designed to include the openess of the maps and missions that can be approached from any angle or out of order. Those are the features that most of us want in this game. There is also the game play but I think we have all resigned ourselves to the fact we will never see another great tactical shooter of the likes of GR again, due to the fading of us old timers and the fact we're out numbered by the hyped up on sugar run and gun types.

Some of us dont need to we already did the first time around ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

GR2 for the PC was canceled some 5 months after the release of GR2 for the XBox. RSE was building GR2 for the PC at the same time they were for the box. While forced to put it on the back burner to release the box version, it didn't kill them to create both at the same time, much like they did for the original.

Ubi did cancel GR2 for the PC due to fans not wanting what was made for the box. As someone who can use his head, I along with others didn't want half a screen to flash with arrows pointing out where it was coming from everytime I got shot. That may be fine for 10 year olds, but at 40 something, I can use my head to figure such things out. GR2 was something fans didn't want. Ubi did know that.

Those indepth details were above my paygrade..lol. But I appreciate some insight like that Whiteknight. I always wondered up to this moment what "Actually" happened. Yeah then I'd say based upon your keen information and my trust in your word that, when UBISOFT bought RSE, that's when it all fell apart. so I'm now seeing the greater picture unlike before. RSE built an outstanding game only to be bought by the likes of UBISOFT and they in turn decided to make the GR franchise what they(UBISOFT) saw or wanted. I would dread the day if BFS should be bought out by UBISOFT if Ground branch should take off. <_<

What "actually" happened is also above WK's paygrade. I'm sitting with an NDA and a canceled GR2 for PC report/interview because of it. <_<

The factual pieces stated above is that the PC version was in development along side the console version, but was put to the back burner in favor of the console version.

However, I can say it was still being worked on, just not with a full force. :no:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...