[Why only one server with ZERO spawns ?]

[[30+]Retlaw]

If Tactics are so important......

why there is only one server with ZERO spawns(Thanks BSR), Having more than ZERO spawn, all it does is promote the "Run and Gun" mentality. I'n my opinion, the perfect server should be ZERO spawns and no nade launcher(GRIN screrw this one up), but this is just my opinion and your server is for you to do whatever you want with it. I see many people leave the BSR server because they just got kill and don't want to wait. This are the same people that complain that the game is not "Tactical" enough. If you enjoy the run and gun, why complain about tactics.

Edited August 2, 2007 by [30+]Retlaw

[Burawura]

Although I haven't yet been able to try GRAW 2 online, I have to say I agree completely. Once I get broadband set up, you won't be seeing me in any respawn servers. For me, it completely contradicts the spirit of GR gameplay to be able to respawn. If I want to rack up kill count, I play UT. If I want a "tactical" suspense-filled, challenging, strategic experience, where my virtual life and those of my fellow players means something, I play GR(+AW2 hopefully if I ever get online again)

[Strapt]

I liked zero respawn back in the day, but that was on massive maps where you actually hide somewhere and crawl around on you belly in bushes and along cliffs. The only map i've got to go on is the beta test/demo RvA map. Zero spawn on that map would just be hell for someone that plays slowly like me because the run and gun players will just run to the middle channels and start chucking nades. Then thats me gone for the round . But that kind of BS just wont work on the bigger and more open maps where you have to be careful and stealthy. I used to find that on small maps you are forced to run and gun with everyone else otherwise you jsut get nade spammed

[+Medic+~SPARTA~]

There are real world tactics and run and gun tactics. It all boils down how fast you move as a unit or single player.

If you really slow down and choose your means of attack and positioning very carefully, you can do these missions with only your initial spawn.

Its up to the team whether they want to do full out stealth and no respawns taking each corner like it could be your last. OR.... using a dynamic approach where you find what cover and concealment you can at the moment while engaging hostiles.

Either way you can still use movement, cover and MOUT tactics to achieve objectives. The difference is the game doesnt care what you do, the enemy spot you from a mile away and shoot you from the hip on full auto (reminds me of another game I play [cough][GR][/cough].

Respawns are pretty much necessary to complete a mission in less than an about an hour.

Edited August 2, 2007 by SierraNovember6

[ruggbutt]

Some people leave but we're also seeing those w/no tags remain in the server and stick it out. Some like the pucker factor of no spawns and I believe that attitude will spill over on to other servers.

[FI_FlimFlam]

I was actually interested in playing last night, but the server was empty at the time. I ended up on the core server and got TK'ed repeatedly by a griefer and out team kept getting pushed into our spawn and couldn't leave. Wasn't very fun. I really dislike respawns for this reason. However I have to thank Core_NT for finally removing the idiot.

Rugg I'll definitely be joining your server when I see it's populated.

Edited August 2, 2007 by FI_FlimFlam

[Strapt]

Although I haven't yet been able to try GRAW 2 online, I have to say I agree completely. Once I get broadband set up, you won't be seeing me in any respawn servers. For me, it completely contradicts the spirit of GR gameplay to be able to respawn. If I want to rack up kill count, I play UT. If I want a "tactical" suspense-filled, challenging, strategic experience, where my virtual life and those of my fellow players means something, I play GR(+AW2 hopefully if I ever get online again)

But did you ever try playing the aztec-type map that got ported into [GR]? I can't remember what it was called, but people seemed to love it. I hated it because all you could do was run about. I tried the slow walking and creeping and I was always the first person to die so i welcomed the spawns. I don't know how many tvt maps are in GRAW2, maybe they are fairly big and suitable for the way I like to play. But even though this is meant to be a tactical suspense-filled game to people like us, we are in the minority.... sorry to say it, but we are . A lot of people might plan to play that way, but once the round starts the tactics and sense go right out the window.

From a co-op point of view, how many times have you seem people just start shooting as soon as they spot an enemy, rather than spotting it for their team and covering angles etc? Hardly ever. What normally happens is that at least one person runs off and starts shooting at the first person they see. They die and then there arent enough people to cover the angles and it all falls apart as your position gets overwhelmed. That always used to happen in the blackhawk down type misison in GRAW.

From a TvT point of view, I'm all for zero spawns, but I don't like they way grenades are thrown. I'm more likely to blow up my own team unless i'm throwing it way down the road. How're you gonna feel if someone accidently blows you up and you have to sit out the round, then next round u get nade spammed, etc etc? For me, zero respawn worked best when the map was as big as possible, or all explosives were banned.

[CommanderBartz]

This is why Scims > Pub...

[MorphingJar]

Some people leave but we're also seeing those w/no tags remain in the server and stick it out. Some like the pucker factor of no spawns and I believe that attitude will spill over on to other servers.

I hardly think that this "attitude" will spill over to other servers. The primary reason that single spawn servers are not popular and probably will never be popular with the majority of the community is that you ALWAYS seem to get that one teammate that just likes to camp a random out of place bush for the entire round. This causes someone who gets noobed by a nade early in the round just sit and sit and sit.

Edited August 2, 2007 by MorphingJar

[[30+]Retlaw]

My opinion on no respawn is directed to TDM and Coop. Seige and HH is another story. The objective od HH and Seige is rack up points or capture a zone, is not kill the other team, so Multiple or unlimited in this 2 game types is ok. Another thing I notice on HH or Siege is, that most people don't care about guarding the zone or capturing the zone, all they care is about kills. I seen 5-6 players surrounding the spawn of the other team instead surrounding the "zone", pathetic in my opinion. All the cry about wanting more game types, to end up playing TDM in HH, seige anyway.

[SCE_COB77]

Our Server is set up 3 Spawns 7 minute rounds on TDM .... ... 5 on HH and 10 minute rounds with 35 points!! Kind of a nice balance!!

[viiiper]

All these theory's are all good and proper but the question being asked is not being answered

Retlaw' date='Aug 2 2007, 06:35 PM' post='483905']

If Tactics are so important......

why there is only one server with ZERO spawns(Thanks BSR), Having more than ZERO spawn, all it does is promote the "Run and Gun" mentality. I'n my opinion, the perfect server should be ZERO spawns and no nade launcher(GRIN screrw this one up), but this is just my opinion and your server is for you to do whatever you want with it. I see many people leave the BSR server because they just got kill and don't want to wait. This are the same people that complain that the game is not "Tactical" enough. If you enjoy the run and gun, why complain about tactics.

It's early days and zero respawns is not for the public servers as they empty out. Public server are there to attract players, you have to get those players on your VOIP system (this is where the hard bit is) then once on VOIP you introduce them to the LOCKED/ SCRIM / zero respawn world.

We do this the best we can via the public setup but, the ability to run 2 servers from one box is not available at the moment (and maybe never), so the main server has to be locked down to scrim/ ladder or play zero respawn (hardcore). These are my opinions, but I believe them to be true and at the BDA we work on this and it has been good. We are not a popular server because we go zero respawns to the public.

We love tactical but this will come in time as the crowd learns the maps and wants more than kill count, when this happens, we will play the lockdown game and pwd via VOIP only.

At the moment our main TDM server is on 3 respawns from the initial 10 we setup and the players are still there, we encourage them to join VOIP and kick spawn killers/ Team killers & players that post constant bad language via the text chat. In the coming weeks we will tailor our server to the goal of tactical play, but if you join now on 3 respawns, you can see the run and gun has been reduced and a more stealth approach is being played by the majority.

Camping is a lone soldier and with VOIP his abilities used to the up most in a team, but till things settle, it's going to be a learning curve. Like I said to Roco ladders come after the main patch due in the next 2 weeks.

Tactical game play is an ability learnt.

[PwntUpRage]

Agreed, the no respawn set up makes for a more cerebral game. Your actually scared to die!

...and BSR keeps the games short so if you get yourself killed early, your not waiting forever.

Edited August 2, 2007 by PwntUpRage

[ruggbutt]

I hardly think that this "attitude" will spill over to other servers.

I'm seeing more and more [GR] squads show up and the same squads and same peeps just don't like respawns. You're welcome to play the game any way you like but being old school we don't play that way. Never once have I heard a person complain on our server about spawn campers.

The primary reason that single spawn servers are not popular and probably will never be popular....

Times may have changed, but in GR's heyday no one with any talent nor skill played respawn servers. Ask anyone who played GR where the good games could be found. The no respawn server were always the most popular. IMHO the spawn/die/respawn cycle is boring. It's the same style gameplay whether it's HALO, BF2 or GRAW2 in that aspect.

5 minute map drops and 10 minute matches make the games short and sweet. Jar, even you wouldn't get bored watching the deadcam for 4 minutes.

Edited August 2, 2007 by ruggbutt

[Burawura]

Some people leave but we're also seeing those w/no tags remain in the server and stick it out. Some like the pucker factor of no spawns and I believe that attitude will spill over on to other servers.

I hardly think that this "attitude" will spill over to other servers. The primary reason that single spawn servers are not popular and probably will never be popular with the majority of the community is that you ALWAYS seem to get that one teammate that just likes to camp a random out of place bush for the entire round. This causes someone who gets noobed by a nade early in the round just sit and sit and sit.

Yep, that's GR. The waiting is one reason why the actual gameplay is so fun. Sure, it sucks sometimes, but without real penalties for death it's a different game entirely.

Also, there's no reason you can't "run n gun" with no respawns. You can play however you want, but once you die, the round is over for you. There's nothing wrong with running out to do a surprise assault on advancing enemies, even if you will most likely be killed soon after, if it means you can eliminate 3 or 4 of them and make it that much easier for your team to win. What no respawns does is make "running and gunning" more high-risk, high-reward. And it usually only works out if your whole team does it.

I don't know why many people seem to think that playing aggressively equates to nontactical, "run n gun" playstyle. "Tactical" refers to an orderly, planned method of movement and engagement that hopefully results in victory. The speed at which that movement occurs just makes it harder to execute tactical maneuvers.

Retlaw, I think you might be ahead of the curve, ready for the more advanced gameplay when most players still may be learning the maps and what they can and can't do. In time, I'm sure there will be more no respawn servers out there as the community settles in. Hopefully, the continued support from GRIN via UBI will keep everyone playing that long.

Edited August 2, 2007 by Burawura

[ruggbutt]

I don't know why many people seem to think that playing aggressively equates to nontactical, "run n gun" playstyle. "Tactical" refers to an orderly, planned method of movement and engagement that hopefully results in victory. The speed at which that movement occurs just makes it harder to execute tactical maneuvers.

Some of the best GRAW2 players are playing on our servers. Ya'll have seen them on the respawn servers too, but when our server starts to get populated one shows up then they call the others on their comms and the whole team plays. In fact, ZA Zenjant and I seem to have each others' numbers and we have a friendly little rivalry on who can (hand) frag each other the most.

[Burawura]

I will definitely be there if I ever get online at home. I never got to play too much with BSR back in the GR days, but I remember having alot of fun the few times I visited your pub.

My old GR team had a very brief time wherein we actually matched. I won't get into it here, but we were dominating the ladder we played on for the first few months so we were kicked off the ladder for "cheating". I don't think we ever got to play BSR. Our main rivals were Xcal and SD iirc. I just can't wait to get back in action! Trying to convince my old teammates to upgrade and buy this game atm ^^

[Bota:16]

I for one am all for no respawns but rarely do I see one that is populated. Even if only a few people are in one I will join, same with RvA.

[Sleepdoc-iBeta]

Retlaw' date='Aug 2 2007, 05:35 PM' post='483905']

If Tactics are so important......

why there is only one server with ZERO spawns(Thanks BSR), Having more than ZERO spawn, all it does is promote the "Run and Gun" mentality.

Wait. Don't you mean "only one OPEN server"? after all, some servers are password protected. Can you see their setup without the pasord? (I actually don't know .... i never checked)

Also, for example, TheGamerPlanet has been my one kill server for GRAW1 coop. They just got their coop server for GRAW2 up the other night and we had it on respawn so everyone could kinda get used to the new system etc and look for issues with the server and admin controls. But they are a one kill server. just not on the first couple of nights.

So I'm guessing there will be more over time.

finally, allowing respawns certainly does bite into tactical play to some extent. But for certain groups of freinds on closed servers, they do both. If you are disciplined, you can keep your pucker high and still allow respawns. In certain instances, respawns are the death of tactical play. In other instances, it is not.

Edited August 2, 2007 by Sleepdoc

[ROCO*AFZ*]

I don't know why many people seem to think that playing aggressively equates to nontactical, "run n gun" playstyle. "Tactical" refers to an orderly, planned method of movement and engagement that hopefully results in victory. The speed at which that movement occurs just makes it harder to execute tactical maneuvers.

Some of the best GRAW2 players are playing on our servers. Ya'll have seen them on the respawn servers too, but when our server starts to get populated one shows up then they call the others on their comms and the whole team plays. In fact, ZA Zenjant and I seem to have each others' numbers and we have a friendly little rivalry on who can (hand) frag each other the most.

You usually see AFZ there if they are full at night after 10pm.

Our server is currently at 5, mainly because not enough of us get on at the same time to fire it up. We did however the other day play a no spawn... but found it buggy to switch through the interface GRRR! I'll be making an xml for that and match conditions this weekend so we can start it up fresh with the settings.

BSR's server also has the advantage of being admined properly (thanks for kicking that tker Rugg)

Something some of the others lack. Late at night though sometimes when i'm brain dead i may enjoy an unlimited but not usually as much as i find it to easy to lock them to there spawn and rack 40+ kills.

[WhiteKnight77]

Retlaw' date='Aug 2 2007, 02:41 PM' post='483937']

Another thing I notice on HH or Siege is, that most people don't care about guarding the zone or capturing the zone, all they care is about kills. I seen 5-6 players surrounding the spawn of the other team instead surrounding the "zone", pathetic in my opinion. All the cry about wanting more game types, to end up playing TDM in HH, seige anyway.

I said something similar to this recently. Everyone wants new game types but whine when they do not have TDM, case in point GRAW itself. When released it had Domination, yet everyone cried foul and wanted TDM. I also have talked about Daywanderer, Headhunter and myself almost always winning HH in GR as everyone else just tried to rack up kills.

Notice that people always say that in such and such a game they can do this or that. Well, if you want to play this or that, play the other game and leave this game to those who want this type of game. If you want to play a respawn game (I think respawns should not be an option at all and not even put in a game) play one that was always developed for that type of gameplay to begin with.

[Burawura]

I don't see anything wrong with playing the other gametypes with no respawn. Sure, you can make the case that Siege, HH, or RvsA are better with unlimited respawns, but you can also make the case that the same gameplay adjustments apply to these other gametypes with no respawn as they do to TDM with no respawn.

We only did this a few times, but some of my funnest GR match memories were a domination match on Aurora, and a hostage rescue!!! match on Embassy. We played those matches with no respawns, and it was really fun, albeit abit less serious than TDM.

[ruggbutt]

and a hostage rescue!!! match on Embassy.

We played that in one of the 2000 matches we played on TCZ.

BSR's server also has the advantage of being admined properly (thanks for kicking that tker Rugg)

Something some of the others lack.

Thanks! Our server almost always had admin presence and we just want people to have fun. Only if we had more tools available to us server admins. Like replays.

[Tinker]

I`ll give my little view. 9MS have had a few T v T games with other`s at GR1. No matter what mode we played, it was No Respawns. It`s all good fun joining Ubi Dubi for a game and so but.. I`ve joined a few T v T games lately for GRAW2, I`m the 1 you kill a lot! I`m a co-op guy. But still, people are running left, right and center. Doesn`t seem to matter what mode you are playing. Who cares? I want most kills, or, I`m dead, I`ll leave the server.

I like HL2 Deathmatch TBH! Give me a gravity gun! But this is Ghost Recon.

Thing is, you get used to playing in the good servers.

Tinker

[Korpen.vU]

As soon as we get a ladder going, there will be more servers with only "1 life". Its the classic GR-gaming-way, and takes alot more skill than the run-n-gun-archade that are ruling most servers now.

Anyways, as soon as vU.s server start pinging right, there will be another server with just 1 spawn.

Welcome into our sights