Reb Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 (edited) I just read the post from Ubirazz talking about upcoming stuff for GRAW pc (http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc...13/m/2861017644). A very interesting feature: Deathmatch mode, Map Editor for Deathmatch and Domination, anti-cheat fixes, Anti Aliasing feature, and New co-op maps How are they going to do that? Anyone from GRIN has some info about this? sorry if this has been posted before Edited May 24, 2006 by Reb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZJJ Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Be prepared for this thread to me merged with the official AA thread that already exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reb Posted May 24, 2006 Author Share Posted May 24, 2006 Ok Sorry that i posted this then. I thought the official AA thread was closed a long time ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_M_S_DNJ Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Im confused too. I thought it wasnt possible or atleast thats what they said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai Recon Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 They must have found a way to work around the issue, giving some degree of AA after all. Sounds ok to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_M_S_DNJ Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 They must have found a way to work around the issue, giving some degree of AA after all. Sounds ok to me yeah but desmond said this earlier today regarding AA "Well how about an option to use cartoon shading? Changing the choice of lighting technique would be about as profound a change to the game's visuals as that." What I got from that was it would be too much work and it would change the game too much to take away deferred lighting so AA could be used. So they arent planning on doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budweiser Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 I just read the post from Ubirazz talking about upcoming stuff for GRAW pc (http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc...13/m/2861017644). A very interesting feature: Deathmatch mode, Map Editor for Deathmatch and Domination, anti-cheat fixes, Anti Aliasing feature, and New co-op maps How are they going to do that? Anyone from GRIN has some info about this? sorry if this has been posted before My guess is that with all the people going in and turning off the hdr in the .XML files they probably are going to have someting where you can check a box to turn on or off HDR if turned off then you can select AA agian it is only a guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_M_S_DNJ Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 I just read the post from Ubirazz talking about upcoming stuff for GRAW pc (http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc...13/m/2861017644). A very interesting feature: Deathmatch mode, Map Editor for Deathmatch and Domination, anti-cheat fixes, Anti Aliasing feature, and New co-op maps How are they going to do that? Anyone from GRIN has some info about this? sorry if this has been posted before My guess is that with all the people going in and turning off the hdr in the .XML files they probably are going to have someting where you can check a box to turn on or off HDR if turned off then you can select AA agian it is only a guess. Well as its been stated. HDR is not the issue. Its deferred lighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reb Posted May 24, 2006 Author Share Posted May 24, 2006 What does it add to the game if its not the orange light stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sui317 Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 i thought it was the way light is projected and reflected (simple version) there is somewhere a good read on that around here somewhere don't know where it went Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damolee Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Not sure what it is, but its pretty damn fugly alot of the time. But then, im not sure Bloom would quite capture the essence of things. Hard one to call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agentkay Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Its the same technique that Epic is using for Gears of War, which <ding> <dong> <ding> won´t have any AA on the X360 either! (yes Tim Sweeney confirmed that here > http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showpost.p...675&postcount=1 ) The only way to get rid of the jaggies before DF-AA capable hardware will be released is to run the game at a higher res, push the screen further away, or put some butter on the screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LT.INSTG8R Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Well we will just hold Ubi to the statement and see what pans out. Who knows they may just add some sorta NV style Quincux blur to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agentkay Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Yes that might be possible. Software AA algorithm might also work but it would be slow as hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LT.INSTG8R Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Well considering the games already subpar FPS with all the rest of it going on you think it will make all that much difference? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trident-za Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 (edited) I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for an AA option. It's not a minor thing changing the entire way in which a game engine "handles" graphics and light. It would take a major rewrite of the code. GRIN chose to go this route, and their engine is based on this. You might as well email RSE (or one of the modders?) and ask them to quickly make the GR1 engine handle HDR and deferred lighting (and give them 2 or 3 weeks to do it in). How fast could RSE make their engine handle graphics and lighting in a new way? AA would be nice, I agree... but be realistic, for crying out loud. The current problem is a hardware one. Asking for a quick software solution to that is impossible. They may have something a long way down the line, but for now... be realistic. (and whether you personally think AA is the ultimate requirement for a tactical shooter has nothing to do with being realistic in this respect). I have no experience of game programming, but I do a lot of programming for a living. One thing I've learned is that whenever a client thinks its just a "minor" change, it means rewritting everything. My prediction: by the time GRIN have created a realistic software workaround, the hardware to handle HDR and AA will be available. Edit: I know there are a few posts about GRIN including AA stuf in future patches. For once, Im going to be like RuggButt and not believe it If they do come up with something I'll be even more impressed with GRIN as a dev company than I already am Edited May 24, 2006 by Trident-za Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druac_Blaise Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Wow...i find it very hard to believe this went into the official post/announcement on accident. If it did, the guy who posted it should be fired. IF it is true, wow, that just shows you how cool GRIN really is, that they took the time to look into it and came up with a possible solution down the road...AWESOME! I don't want to hate too much on UBI, as they ARE the ones who chose GRIN for this project, but things would have been a whole lot better for GR:AW and GRIN in general if UBI would have given GRIN enough time to put this game out COMPLETED. I just can't help thinking none of the additions for MP, etc. would happen if left to UBI and/or Red Storm alone. Because of the track record, I have to give GRIN the credit, even though UBI looks to be trying to take the credit with that kind of PR post. Sorry, just had to say it All that being said, FOR GRIN!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trident-za Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Wow...i find it very hard to believe this went into the official post/announcement on accident. I really do hope you are right and I'm wrong I don't really notice the lack of AA... but I'm pretty sure I'd notice it's presence! If GRIN have pulled it off, I'll be truly truly impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLCSeMPeRFi Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Its nice to see some details contained in the June patch. It saddens me to know we have to wait longer for TDM and SADS files. It will be interesting to see how the AA works. I thought Grin said it was a hardware limitation? They must have put in an option to disable HDR and enable AA like Oblivion. Can we get some real server options in June? Until we get some decent server settings, a decent AC, and some SADS files most clans are refusing to host. And the amount of servers available are slowly diminishing. If they wait until the end of summer few people will be playing this game online from lack of servers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LT.INSTG8R Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Again it needs to be pointed out(as Desmond did) the the HDR and the Deferred Lighting/Shading are seperate. You can already turn off the HDR in the XML already you still dont get AA. We will see what they come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DayGlow Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 My knowladge of graphic techniques is limited, but my understanding is that AA isn't possible with Defered Lighting because of the amount of post-processing needed on the frame after it is rendered. But most AA techniques is based on multi-sampling the pixels around the pixel being AA'd. Now if they use a super-sample method of AA, ie build the framebuffer at a higher rez, then scale it down to what you are playing at, it maybe possible to run AA with the lighting. Although the performance overhead would be even more crazy high than it is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whc.demo Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 (edited) I may be the biggest n00b ever but i get the feeling that differed lighting is just the "heat wave" effects over burning cars and the warped/distorted effect around explosions... why do i think this??? because in oblivion around the oblivion gates/portals there is a similar type of heat wave effect that doesnt work when AA is enabled even though HDR is still on and fully working. so HDR and AA work no probs in oblivion, however these "heat waves" dont. now if that IS the case then it cant be too hard to disable those effects and allow AA in a patch. I think they just wanted this "next gen" feature in the game no matter what, after all on an xbox360 on a TV you dont need AA so the choice would have been to use this despite the lack of AA. Edited May 24, 2006 by whc.demo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruggbutt Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 What version of defferred lighting is it? Cuz I can ask some devs that I know if it's possible to do AA with deferred lighting. I'm pretty sure it's that AA cannot be done w/HDR, except on the very newest ATI cards (and drivers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agentkay Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 (edited) Deferred rendering is NOT the heatwave (which seems to be just a shader). It´s the whole lightning system. Every pixel in the game is affected by deferred rendering. The game doesn´t have a lightning system that other games have, so you can´t compare it with Oblivion for instance. The next game that will use DR will be Gears of War, and it won´t have any AA either. I think DR will be used in quite a few Unreal Engine 3 powered games. If the heatwave was the problem, they would have added an option to disable it and enable AA a long long time ago, long before the game went gold. Edited May 24, 2006 by agentkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruggbutt Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Deferred rendering is NOT the heatwave (which seems to be just a shader). It´s the whole lightning system. If the heatwave was the problem, they would have added an option to disable it and enable AA a long long time ago, long before the game went gold. So then it sounds like some sort of supersampling, which renders at higher res then "converts" to your screen res. But that should be a real framerate killer shouldn't it be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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