Cavalier Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 I've noticed that regardless of any armor being worn, bullets almost always penetrate? Why? I own a few of the new ps-whatever helmets (used by americans), and I know they can withstand handgun bullets and most rifle fire, but in-game they seem simply cosmetic. Is this simply because of limitations in the game engine, or did they just figure it wouldn't matter, if you've been shot, you've been shot? They might sound like a rant, but it's not. I'm just curious why the armor in the game doesn't seem to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backshooter Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 It has to do with how the game engine has been tuned for a balance of 'realism' (a pretty hotly debated topic around here; means something different to everyone it seems) and game play. If you boost the 'stamina' points to 8, for example, you should be able to take a few hits depending on the nature of the rounds (the gun, how far away etc) and where you've been hit. I'm sure you've experienced taking a chest, arm or leg wound and still being able to fight on (albeit with a limp in case of the leg wound) There are some xml files you can manipulate to improve the performance of so-called 'body armour' (an algorithm/mathematical equation that determines survivability based on where you take a given shot). However this will not affect mp, unless you create a mod that everyone else has (either dl or server-side). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Slink Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 I find it a pity that a silenced pistol (M9) can take down a US soldier with a headshot. GR2 maybe this'll be fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 (edited) Also a head-shot isn't 100 % lethal in GR. Sometimes a tango survives a head-shot. Edited March 30, 2003 by San Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avey Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 I hit a tango with a sniper shot in the head and he just carried on running like nothing had touched him. Then i shoot someone in the leg with an m4 and thay die instantly. You can't win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copenhagen Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 There are body armor "levels". Snipers have the least, followed by rifleman, and then demo & support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRW_smatman Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 There are body armor "levels". Snipers have the least, followed by rifleman, and then demo & support. Just for everybodys info for friendlies here are the actual armor levels. Support = 3 Rifleman and Demo = 2 Sniper = 1 And for enemy soldiers the armor level depends on that soldiers skill level, not the current difficulty of the campaign. The campaign difficulty level determines the ratio of soldiers skill level and armor throughout the campaign. So on recruit you'll have a lot of recruit soldiers but some veterans. And in Elite you'll have more Elite soldiers and fewer recruits and veterans. Elite = 3 Veteran = 2 Recruit = 1 So is possible to have an enemy recruit support gunner with a armor level of 1 and a elite enemy sniper with an armor level of 3...maybe even on the same campaign mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300Mag Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Body armor in combat situations is not of much use, ihmo. Reason is this. Even the best body armour available, without a trauma plate (ceramic or steel) is easily penetrated by most battlefield rifles. 7.62x39 and 5.56 included. Keep in mind that even if the bullet does not penetrate the vest, the wearer still absorbs the bullets energy. A 7.62x51NATO round develops a ton of energy. Even at 500 yards, you are still looking at more than 1000 pounds of force hitting you. Even if the bullet does not penetrate, which it will if it hits no trauma plate, you still eat that energy. I doubt you feel like fighting after that if you are not busy hemoraging Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavalier Posted March 30, 2003 Author Share Posted March 30, 2003 300 Mag, I agree; it's true that body armor is useless against most rifles. And again, you're correct when you say that you still absorb (maybe that's the wrong word to use) the force of the bullet. that 'ol "incapacitated" status from Rogue Spear would come in handy here. But also, I have to agree with Slink and San. I've seen both examples too many times. I hope it is something they fix in GR2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hero2zer0 Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 I've been hit directly in the head while playin MP one time and i did not die but the reticule took about 5 seconds to close they guy who was shooting me had an SA80 and he shot me from the ally in MBC while i was lying near the hotel door Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zantar45 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 If they do fix this little problem in GR2/possible expansion pack. I wish the kevlar helmets/PSG1 helmets reflect bullets.They are as useless as buying them in CS, wooo a little ping sound and Im dead-woo nice money well spent. How about the ability to choose body armor or flak jackets? That actually work? 3round burst from MP5 will knock em down or make their ret go wide so they cant focus because their getting shot? Its funny dropping a Support expert at 15 feet with a M9 and his M249 making me only flinch lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backshooter Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Go into the console (numeric keypad "Enter") and type "superman" or "teamsuperman" then "enter" and "esc". Nothing can touch you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cajun47 Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 in real life the "bullet proof" vest are used to stop most handgun bullets and buck shot. they do not stop most rifle bullets......mabey a few hundred yards away i dont know. im not an expert but this is my true to life experment: i own one lovely ak47. this machine shoots the 7.62x39mm round. this is not a very powerful rifle round compared to my 8mm mauser or a 30-06 but its still very deadly. years ago when the sks hit american shores by the millions i picked up a ton of cheap military 7.62x39 mm ammo. one day i went shooting at a junk yard. i shot a large piece of medal. it was well over an inch thick....solid iron! the iron jacket and lead jacket of the bullet were smashed aginst the iron target. i noticed a small hole through the medal....it was the steel core from the bullet that went through!! no kind of helmet, vest or trama plate will protect u from an ak47. well mabey from far far away. i shot that iron from about 50 yards away. im sure the .223cal m16 type rifles have some kind of anti- armor bullets also. so i think ghost recon is pretty realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavalier Posted April 2, 2003 Author Share Posted April 2, 2003 (edited) I have arussian SKS that shoots 7.62x39 rounds, and sometimes I shoot at a huge steel vat that sits about a hundred yards away, down in our field, and depending on the ammo I use (hollow points just dent it), the rounds usually go right through. the sides of this vat are over an inch thick. I was refering mostly to small arms fire. But I'm sure there are some situations where the armor has come in handy. Where would I be able to find real life accounts of bullet proof armor in action? I know that most rifle rounds will penetrate most bodyarmor (although, check out bulletproofme.com for some amazing photos and whatnot), but I'm sure there are instances where the body armor has come in useful (Otherwise, it wouldn't have mattered for that one guy in BHD who wasn't "...planning on getting shot in the back running away..." and tossed his plate). Edited April 2, 2003 by Cavalier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRW_smatman Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 The trauma plate inserts you see for level III & IV vests are a lot more resistant then your average hunk of Iron or steel. Trauma plates are made of mixes of complex materials like ceramics. These armors are supposed to be able to protect against 7.62 (level III) and .30 caliber (level IV). http://www.firstdefense.com/html/Hard_Armor.htm http://hsarmor.com/htm/plates.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zantar45 Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Yes bullet proof vests can stop bullets, most of the bullets that do go through are because... 1.there are different levels of protection from bullets. the higher the level, the larger the rounds it can stop. 2.if a bullet goes in at a certain angle it can go right through 3.some bullets that are older tend to fragment and can penatrate through the vests 4.multiple shots, the layers catch the bullet in them, as more bullets go into one area the usefullness of its ability goes away. 5.types of bullets, certain types get caught up while others dont. there are also alot more factors. now about the steel thing, the material that the vests are made of are about 1,000 times stronger then steel. A level 4 vest has about 26-32 layers of nylon/kevlar material (bullet proof fabric) The trama plate absorbs the impact as much as it protects the wearer of the bullet.I cant remember but the plates (heavy as in level of protection) weigh from 8-13 pounds, and a level 4 vest with plates(front n back) weighs around 26 pounds. There have been reports in Afghanistan I think it was, of soldiers being shot almost point blank with a AK47 or other variant and getting right back up, with a busted plate of course.A few bruises are better then a few holes in your chest. During BHD most of the members thought it was going to be a simple in and out operation, they werent primarily thinking about how all the people would be taking those roots that make them aggressive and Im sure they werent counting on fighting a whole city. Afterall it was to be a simple snatch and grab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cajun47 Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 "now about the steel thing, the material that the vests are made of are about 1,000 times stronger then steel." ummm, i dont belive that. can u prove it with a link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cajun47 Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 o, and i took notes today while playing ghost recon single and multiplayer today. i did have to shoot a few enemies more than once to kill them but is was very few. and i did get hit twice in multiplayer and lived....could not move much. i just sat there aginst a wall until they came finish me off. anyway u can try arcade mode. u can take more hits and u run faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zantar45 Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 cajun47 Posted on Apr 3 2003, 04:48 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "now about the steel thing, the material that the vests are made of are about 1,000 times stronger then steel." ummm, i dont belive that. can u prove it with a link? now what i really meant was that its light and stronger then steel of the same thickness and length. here is a list for this companies vests. mind you they arent a military supplier, but a company in Korea. here is a nice pic and chart that shows what levels can handle what velocities and if you want more go to here Duponts web site. At the bottom of the page there is a box that says'' select channel'' go to kevlar and watch the video. or goto, www.dupont.com/kevlar/ it will explain more. in fact, checkout the ''life protection'' category, it has listing of the ways its used. My brother in law is a Sheriffs deputy for my town, and he can tell you how many times his fellow deputies and officers have been saved by their vests when gang bangers and meth heads start shooting. Its true the vests dont stop every bullet, but they do what they are supposed to. Thats save the lives of users by minimalizing the effects of a bullet on impact. Now in GR I dont know what they did, but sometimes the armor works and sometimes it doesnt. After all this is a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streinger Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 (edited) A level 4 vest has about 26-32 layers of nylon/kevlar material (bullet proof fabric) The trama plate absorbs the impact as much as it protects the wearer of the bullet.I cant remember but the plates (heavy as in level of protection) weigh from 8-13 pounds, and a level 4 vest with plates(front n back) weighs around 26 pounds. Yup, I have a level 4 vest...some 2cm thick kevlar, with 0,5cm steel plates front and back. The whole thing weigths 12,5kg (25-26lbs) It's Belgium made, but I can't make out the maker..it has a big "Z" logo, and on the inner side I found "ZUNBLINDAGE" and a serial number. Anyway, we once fastened such vest around a log and fired at it with 7,62x25mmTT pistol. (a very penetrating calibre, BTW) The vest endured the shots with no signs of damage..we never tested it with a rifle, though... Edited April 3, 2003 by Streinger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavalier Posted April 3, 2003 Author Share Posted April 3, 2003 (edited) I'm thinking about buying a vest, just for the hell of it, but I think I want do some researh before I invest in something that expensive. Joust out of curiosity, what is military policy on vests, like, if you had your own that was better quality, could you use that instead of the issued one? ***EDIT*** See http://www.blackarmor.com/Vest/Helmet.htm , the helmet, for example, should stop most rifle rounds, let alone a SD 9mm to the head. And look at this, pertaing to vests: http://www.dupont.com/kevlar/lifeprotectio...ils/ranger.html Edited April 3, 2003 by Cavalier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobblers Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 You wear the vest and I'll just shoot you in the head. Simple really! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowFella Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 While I served with the swedish SFOR batalion in Bosnia we acctually tried one of our cheramic trauma plates. We fired 6 shots into it from about 10 meters. None of the shots penetrated the plate, even if 2 of them acctually hit the same spot. The rounds we tried was: 5.56mm NATO (twice) 5.56mm AP 7.76mm NATO (twice) 7.62*39mm (AK47) I choose to wear the plates at all times despight the weight they add to the west, better a few sore ribs than a 7.62mm hole in the chest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRW_smatman Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 "now about the steel thing, the material that the vests are made of are about 1,000 times stronger then steel." ummm, i dont belive that. can u prove it with a link? Go onto the web ( www.yahoo.com ) and do a search for KEVLAR or CERAMIC BODY ARMOR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noraf Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 speacing of boddy armour and stuff... any of you folks tierd of seeing films, were ppl hide behind car doors, when being shot at? those doors won't help you mutch, unless it's a armored car... a standard 9mm pistol can shoot trough doors...! not to mention what the rifles can do.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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