Got Maps?

[IrishStout]

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

Sadly, most of the RSE stuff has to be looked over and optimized when brining it to PC.

First, the max files need to be cleaned. RSE uses one file for the entire map, while Grin uses loose props to a wider extent. So it needs to be separated and spawn points need to be added to ensure the same placements of the loose props.

All the textures have to be replaced (the RSE ones can be used as base, but all normal maps needs to be redone and a large portion of the diffuse ones as well, all alpha maps needs to be redone). Sure, some textures can be used from other maps, but all MP maps still have slightly different environments which have specific texture needs.

New environment needs to be setup, tested and adjusted.

All the UV maps usually needs to be fixed, and RSE doesn't use lightmaps so that UV channel needs to be added and checked by test baking lightmaps after the new environment has been added. Mapping both the channels needed for good texture blending of a landscape takes at least a week.

XML files for models and materials needs to setup, although this is pretty quick work.

RSE doesn't use silhouettes so that mesh needs to be added, mapped and checked.

Walk areas is another problem. RSE uses walkmesh, Grin uses a free movement system that depends on face angles. So the entire landscape needs to be checked for walk ability and often adjusted to allow the player to move where he is supposed to.

Mesh size for landscape part needs to be fixed to optimize for the physics and engine handling.

Collision meshes needs to be added to some objects as well as movement blockers (because of the free movement system), occluders, shadow casters and sometimes ray blockers for the AI.

Ambient points needs to be added to light up props, and depending on the map and game modes to use it for, cover points for the AI to use in the terrain.

New minimaps needs to be made and adjusted to make sure the align properly with player movement.

The game modes are a little different in function, so we need to reevaluate each map when it comes to zone/spawn placements.

So I'd say at least a months workload for 1 person (which is what I was refereeing to when I first posted that time frame as well but it's not in the post above). And the thing is that much of it can't be done by more then 1 person at the same time, specifically the landscape stuff like walk areas and mapping which all require working directly on the landscape, so it really does take that long.

[Lightspeed]

shows the huge limitations of the Diesel engine.

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

shows the huge limitations of the Diesel engine.

None of them are really limitation, just differences. Much of the things we need to fix are actually seen as limitations in their engine that don't use PC specific possibilities or due to the limited hardware in the 360 when it comes to memory for example. Basically no limitations in the Diesel engine, but as always each item has to be built for the engine it's gonna be used on. It's the same for all game graphics for all games which all is developed differently depending on which engine is used.

[FI_FlimFlam]

So I'd say at least a months workload for 1 person (which is what I was refereeing to when I first posted that time frame as well but it's not in the post above). And the thing is that much of it can't be done by more then 1 person at the same time, specifically the landscape stuff like walk areas and mapping which all require working directly on the landscape, so it really does take that long.

Thanks for the clarification to put it in perspective.

[Forrester]

i think ubi has no intrest for a game to last longer than 6 months

you should have bought the next game after 3 months just for them to keep shareholders happy..

shareholders give a rusty nail for lasting games cause they (the games that last) do not fill their pockets.

He Sui, long time no see....

If you play COD4 look for the B:P:R server, that's where I'm struck

[Papa6]

shows the huge limitations of the Diesel engine.

None of them are really limitation, just differences. Much of the things we need to fix are actually seen as limitations in their engine that don't use PC specific possibilities or due to the limited hardware in the 360 when it comes to memory for example. Basically no limitations in the Diesel engine, but as always each item has to be built for the engine it's gonna be used on. It's the same for all game graphics for all games which all is developed differently depending on which engine is used.

One difference that makes GRAW2 such a drag is, that I'll use IGOR as an example.

IGOR could open a map up and have several zones for different gametypes. so I could add a custom gametype that I could make with IGOR, add it to a map with existing gametype zones, trigger points and more, add my gametype, zones and the like. So when I go to play my gametype, only those zones for my gametype are used by the game. essentially alleviating having to make 10, 20, 100 copies of the same map for different gametypes..TDM, Siege, DM, COOP, DEFEND..all these can be placed on one map, with zones but only one gametype can be used at a time and the other gametype zones are ignored.

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

One difference that makes GRAW2 such a drag is, that I'll use IGOR as an example.

IGOR could open a map up and have several zones for different gametypes. so I could add a custom gametype that I could make with IGOR, add it to a map with existing gametype zones, trigger points and more, add my gametype, zones and the like. So when I go to play my gametype, only those zones for my gametype are used by the game. essentially alleviating having to make 10, 20, 100 copies of the same map for different gametypes..TDM, Siege, DM, COOP, DEFEND..all these can be placed on one map, with zones but only one gametype can be used at a time and the other gametype zones are ignored.

You should read the unified MP game modes tutorial... It works the same in GRAW2. 1 map and unlimited game modes. All only using what is designated in each modes mission script. That was implemented in GRAW2 based on feedback from the GRAW1 community, together with the open game mode scripts so unlimited amount of new game modes could be added to each map.

[The Blueberry_EBDA]

Wolfey.Thats not the point.I think everyone is telling us that the modtools are a little to complicated.That the choices for the maps props,trees ect.are limited.

Wolfy quote

I'd say at least a months workload for 1 person

Thats a long time,and probably nose to the grindstone.If you cant make a drag and drop dont bother.Make us more maps instead.We want to push the maps out the door so fast,we aint got time to get bored.Hopefully,Ubi and Grin will come to the rescue.I think it will be enough for a couple of weeks anyway.Thennnnnnnnn,we can all switch from COD4 toBF3 lol

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

Wolfey.Thats not the point.

Yes it was, as that's what he wrote. The main portion of the post was about using the same map for multiple game modes.

[kilbil]

Obviously as computer games get technically more complicated the modtools for it do as well.

[Rocky]

shareholders give a rusty nail for lasting games cause they (the games that last) do not fill their pockets.

I think Valve shareholders may beg to difer. Make a game that lasts and you have a series, a brand. That's what Ubi had here until they dropped the ball.

[The Blueberry_EBDA]

Yes it was, as that's what he wrote. The main portion of the post was about using the same map for multiple game modes.

A man after my own heart...lololololololololololol.Yes and thats great.It still takes a month.

[Gaz]

I'd be more than happy to wait 6 months to have the [GR] maps for GRAW2. I'd even pay the usual 30-40 pound just for the map pack alone. Then, depending on the success of that map pack, I'd wait for the DS maps and IT maps to follow.

Like most people here, I'm obviously dreaming

I know from personal experience that you can re-create MOST [GR] maps within 1 day (just the mesh - not textured or scripted etc). Would this be such a tall order for UBI/GRIN to do? Within 2 -3 weeks you could have meshes for all [GR] maps (not DS or IT - they can come later ).

Hell, I'd even reproduce a map for you free of charge (if you gave me your requirements) and see how long it would take you to complete 1 single map which would be MP ready.

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

I know from personal experience that you can re-create MOST [GR] maps within 1 day (just the mesh - not textured or scripted etc).

That would be what was considered final mesh back then... today it's more of a preview quality mesh. Modeling I think would take about a week, a little depending on the map, without mapping.

[kretzj]

shareholders give a rusty nail for lasting games cause they (the games that last) do not fill their pockets.

I think Valve shareholders may beg to difer. Make a game that lasts and you have a series, a brand. That's what Ubi had here until they dropped the ball.

You nailed it, Rocky. Brand management is where Ubi has seriously dropped the ball. The "Ghost Recon" franchise had (has?) a fiercely loyal following, especially on the PC. Ubi execs must have failed MBA 101 from this perspective... or, they determined the PC market wasn't large enough to justify them caring.

I won't buy another "Advanced Warfighter" game from Ubi, no matter which studio does the work (GRiN, RSE, etc.) but I will spend my $$$ on a return to the "Ghost Recon" franchise.

-John K.