Suli Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 "I perfectly understand indie, though. I know some people involved with it." Knowing some people does not mean you understand it. Knowing Indie dev's around these circles is like knowing some one who is a teacher. Every body does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sup Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Knowing Indie dev's around these circles is like knowing some one who is a teacher. Every body does. You'd be suprised, I haven't found any through the polycount or cgchat or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suli Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 (edited) I know the spots well, as others. I only go by Suli in specific game forums Sup. My issue is very simple, you state you know indie devs ( I will generalize in this instance and refer to them as devs). From this you have created an opinion and cast it as a broad generalizasion of devs. It is an accurate opinion of a particular subgroup, bud you state in this thread as if it where a matter of fact for all devs. Knowing some people does not equal understanding the scope of anything. (I know a lot of soldiers, I would not dare to imply or state I perfectly understand their work or beliefs) It definatly does not imply a perfect understanding. Very simple, you do not speak for all, yet you imply through your statements that you opinion (take) is representative of the mass. Your view does not represent all devs. Stating you know some, and you hang out where every one else and there brother hangs out is not exactly strong backing of your opinion. If you where to say "the folks I know", or even "from what I have seen", it would change your posts dramatically. Edited June 8, 2006 by Suli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sup Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 It is an accurate opinion of a particular subgroup, bud you state in this thread as if it where a matter of fact for all devs. Speaking too generally is a mistake I often make. I belive I had to apologize for it once already in this thread. Anyway, I don't mean to offend, and it's my error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suli Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 I really wish I had spelled "but" correctly. So If a may redirect my energy back to the poll. I do have question for folks. To the modders. Would you produce content for a game like this? If I had time, and the foundation game was solid I personally would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleeper Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 2. Paying for a decent tech demo/game framework inexpensively that is fully moddable and available for 3rd parties to make a game or add-on of thier own I would do this without a doubt if I thought that it would be user friendly enough and flexible enough for someone like me to work with. I think we'd see some great games come out this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZJJ Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 I would love to see some more input from many of those that have modded GR over these past several years. Maybe someone post a link to this thread in the modding forums to get people to scroll down to this part of the forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlookian Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 In all honesty (as much as I would love to believe it) the economics of the thing just don't add up. For you to create something that people would pay money for out of a basically empty framework would take so much work. Look at Grin (a year and a half for over 20 very clever people working flat out) how many modders would be involved and for how long? can't leave it too long before release date because those fickle gaming kiddies would have moved on to the next thing. Gonna sell to a few die hards still waiting for your product? I think that it would be at the most a little pocket money for the few very complex labour intensive mods. but I'm sure that only the very first downloads would be paid for then it'd just be warez from then on.. Your best bet would be to try to work for the industry rather than beside it. Guess this is gonna be hobby after all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteKnight77 Posted June 12, 2006 Author Share Posted June 12, 2006 Some of you are getting the drift of what the poll(s) are about. From what I see, many of you think that getting paid for modding is a good idea. First, let me tell you that for many games there are freeware mods including the flight sim community and this is an example of a freeware mod (in this case a plane, it can also include scenery as in airports). This C-45 (a Beech 18 from the 40's) is an example of freeware for MS Flight Simulator 2004. I love flying it and enjoy the sound of it's radial engines. Microsoft has released many SDK's for FS2004 to help create many aspects of the game from scratch. Now the MS flight sim community also has an extensive payware community that features similar mods as freeware. Now, there are some payware that is garbage, but most of it is a dream such as the offerings from PMDG. They actually have pilots who have flown the aircraft they model and create all aspects of the planes avialable for purchace. I have the 737NG plane as seen here and some of it's features such as the airstairs that can be extended along with doors that open. or the cockpit that features a compass that displays the flight path and the intersections that are programmed into the flight managment computer (yes it has a fully functionaly FMC that YOU program or even detailed landing gear and engine parts People have been profitting with the tools that Microsoft has released. Why not you with the tools someone else could release? The above example is just one small community that has embraced payware, why not the FPS/Tac-Sim community? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sup Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Why not? Firstly, becuase 'tac-sim' is still a made up genre... FPS and tactical shooter have some potential, but it still has a signifigant difference from a game like FS. Gameplay design is a big deal in modding a fps, and good gameplay isn't near as common in mods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefly2442 Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 I really wish someone would do this actually. Create a framework with a software development kit along with excellent documentation (good enough for even novices to start) and sell it for a little bit of money. Then if the community could rally around different projects, we could create a mod or game that the community wants. I have to say that tactical first person shooters are my favorite genre of game, however, I think large companies don't want to create games like that because they want to hype the latest and greatest action game. If I may ask, is someone trying something like this? While we are on the topic of creating your own game. Here's some starting points if anyone wants to give it a go: 3-D Engines: http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net http://www.ogre3d.org Audio Libraries: http://www.openal.org Physics Engines: http://newtondynamics.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteKnight77 Posted June 16, 2006 Author Share Posted June 16, 2006 I really wish someone would do this actually. Create a framework with a software development kit along with excellent documentation (good enough for even novices to start) and sell it for a little bit of money. Then if the community could rally around different projects, we could create a mod or game that the community wants. I have to say that tactical first person shooters are my favorite genre of game, however, I think large companies don't want to create games like that because they want to hype the latest and greatest action game. If I may ask, is someone trying something like this? While we are on the topic of creating your own game. Here's some starting points if anyone wants to give it a go: 3-D Engines: http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net http://www.ogre3d.org Audio Libraries: http://www.openal.org Physics Engines: http://newtondynamics.com Someone may be considering this. How many times have you seen people say that such and such did such a great job on this mod, that they wished they had done a whole new game. Look at Obsidian Edge. A group of modders have taken and used the Far Cry engine and have completely redone the game and made a tac-sim out of an atypical FPS. Sure it is MP only, but why not have the tools to make both an SP campaign and include Coop and TvT/FFA modes like R6/GR? Someone may be interested in providing such tools in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sup Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Someone may be considering this. How many times have you seen people say that such and such did such a great job on this mod, that they wished they had done a whole new game. Look at Obsidian Edge. A group of modders have taken and used the Far Cry engine and have completely redone the game and made a tac-sim out of an atypical FPS. Sure it is MP only, but why not have the tools to make both an SP campaign and include Coop and TvT/FFA modes like R6/GR? Someone may be interested in providing such tools in the future. I mean no offense to the OE team (they did a great job, and I actually helped on the project) but they made a facry mod. It was farcry with new weapon balance, bullet spin, speed, and night vision. Not a 'tac-sim' (still a made up genre ) at all. I have almost never wished a mod team has made a full game. I've liked mods a lot, but if you actually look at them they're rarely actually valid enough to be sold as stand alone products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYR_32 Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 I have almost never wished a mod team has made a full game. I've liked mods a lot, but if you actually look at them they're rarely actually valid enough to be sold as stand alone products. Does the name Counter Strike ring a bell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefly2442 Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 I think he means the vast majority of them are not worthy to be standalone. The vast majority of mods are quite small (skin mods, a new weapon, a new map, etc.) whereas a full game or full mod requires a coordinated effort of people with multiple talents to produce a finished good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suli Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 (edited) "I mean no offense to the OE team (they did a great job, and I actually helped on the project) " Sup, Please do not claim to have helped, worked on or been associated with Obsidian Edge, the Polishing Weevils or Obsidian Edge 2. You did not actually help on the project. The only time you have been brought up was for admission for OE2 team. You where rejected for you attitude and quality of work. That was it, and all of you association to this Mod, Mod Group, and Sequal. This claim you make is of an extreme insult to the people who work very hard for a year and a half to have completed OE1. This is the full list of people who worked on OE1. Answering questions in forums, does not count as a contribution. We do this all the time. (I will add the credits list shortly) You will note that I know all of them, every single one. Including those who only worked for a short period of time. two things, very personal at this point. Some one need to beat you with the shovel of positivity. Every time some one post something hopefull, positive, or that makes them happy you come along with you dumb ass negative comments. Across every damn forum too. And of coarse do not ever claim to have been apart of, worked on in any way shape or form OE. You where rejected. Get over it and get one with your life. Btw, just to let you know. I am a co-founder, and co-leader of this mod. ###### does not get past me. Edited June 16, 2006 by Suli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sup Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 The fpwv m9 texture in oe is mine, Suli. Edit: Right here http://obsidianedge.net/modules.php?name=F...er=asc&start=90 The texture's no good, but I still made it. You guys made a good Farcry mod, but it never reached a point where it was it's own game. It's not even as far as such well known mods as DoD and CS, which still feel like half life with different movement/damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteKnight77 Posted June 16, 2006 Author Share Posted June 16, 2006 "I mean no offense to the OE team (they did a great job, and I actually helped on the project) " Sup, Please do not claim to have helped, worked on or been associated with Obsidian Edge, the Polishing Weevils or Obsidian Edge 2. You did not actually help on the project. The only time you have been brought up was for admission for OE2 team. You where rejected for you attitude and quality of work. That was it, and all of you association to this Mod, Mod Group, and Sequal. This claim you make is of an extreme insult to the people who work very hard for a year and a half to have completed OE1. This is the full list of people who worked on OE1. Answering questions in forums, does not count as a contribution. We do this all the time. (I will add the credits list shortly) You will note that I know all of them, every single one. Including those who only worked for a short period of time. two things, very personal at this point. Some one need to beat you with the shovel of positivity. Every time some one post something hopefull, positive, or that makes them happy you come along with you dumb ass negative comments. Across every damn forum too. And of coarse do not ever claim to have been apart of, worked on in any way shape or form OE. You where rejected. Get over it and get one with your life. Those who worked on OE and now OE2 know who they are as do those who have played it. Sure, OE is a mod for Far Cry, but so is CS for HL. The makers of CS went on to be gainfully employed by Valve (IIRC) and have went on to work on full fledged projects. Honestly, I would like to see what a team made up of Yodasplat (he made some killer weapons models for GR before his work was stolen), Deleyt (map maker), NYR32 (wicked missions man), all of Alpha Squad and anyone else who does characters. They are all smart enough to figure out IGOR to create killer mods for GR, who says they can't take and use tools given to them to create a whole new game? That is what the gist of this thread and poll is about. If a crew like I listed above could get together and make a killer game by purchasing a 1 level game that gives you the framework and the tools, would you buy such a game for a small price? Would you pay for the game they create? I would if it were something that interests me. Sup, if it does not interest you to get a game engine for mere pocket change, then find something else to do with your time. I am sure that there are many who would love a chance to get a game engine for pennies compared to what a true license would cost to create a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sup Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Sup, if it does not interest you to get a game engine for mere pocket change, then find something else to do with your time. Assuming it takes off (I fear it won't) I'm actually working on an indie game as an artist. My negativity is realism, not contempt for the cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suli Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 "Those who worked on OE and now OE2 know who they are" I know who they are, Every single indavidual gets the ok of several indaviduals. Of which I am one of. Every single one of them. Negativity doesn not equal reality any more than Optimism equals reality. Negativity is an attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sup Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 "Those who worked on OE and now OE2 know who they are" I know who they are, Every single indavidual gets the ok of several indaviduals. Of which I am one of. Every single one of them. Regardless, I'm one of them. Take a look at the link i edited into my post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteKnight77 Posted June 16, 2006 Author Share Posted June 16, 2006 "Those who worked on OE and now OE2 know who they are" I know who they are, Every single indavidual gets the ok of several indaviduals. Of which I am one of. Every single one of them. Negativity doesn not equal reality any more than Optimism equals reality. Negativity is an attitude. With that said, let's return to the topic of creating your own game. All other posts from here on out will be deleted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sup Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Let's not forget that everything we did with OE was thru LUA. There wasn't an SDK available. Exactly. You simply didn't have the resources to make "a tac-sim out of an atypical FPS" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteKnight77 Posted June 16, 2006 Author Share Posted June 16, 2006 Let's not forget that everything we did with OE was thru LUA. There wasn't an SDK available. That being said we don't have those limitations with OE2. We have full factory support from Crytek. As of right now, not when Crysis releases. At first I was going to delete this post as it does not fit after my warning, but then thought about it and it does fit. Here is a group of guys with the tools needed and right from the devs themselves to create the game that they want using the tools they need. They may have to use Crysis, but that gives them the engine/framework to do what they want. Could they possibly sell it? Maybe, who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pz3 Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 (edited) I dont think selling oe2 has really crossed any devs "eruhm modders" minds. Sup does get credit for working on the M9 Skin. That was my doing as I was hoping to bring you into the team to perhaps further your graphical skill by trying to meet expectations beyond your personall ones. It helped me before a lot and hoping it did the same for you. Wich seemed to make a little impact as seen in your m9 skin... but the mod was short lived. Now personally I wouldnt want to talk to much about OE2 as I am still a part of the project ..... It is getting underway and nothing is set in stone. We have the design ideas down and they are fantastic ideas. Now just trying to get all the content made and put into a stylish easy to use but complexed mod is the task. In other news....Most of you dont know I actually have stepped away from oe2 for the time beeing as of personal reasons (yes I got some very good reasons and I am accomplishing them.. non computer related) But I will get back into the project if time allows. I Gotta be crazy to walk away from a project like this.... ----------------------------------------------------------------- As for the original discussion goes. I still favor a 20$ open source game. That would rock. All these free engines out look horrid IMO in user friendlyness and quality. personally I have dabbled in the LUA files for farcry and the scripting language is pretty freaking cool from a novice coders perspective. I downloaded the C++ tool papa 6 showed me... I have no idea how to really use it but Im sure reading threw some tutorials I can learn. Edited June 17, 2006 by Prozac360 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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