AW Demo

[Echelon_Four]

Let me start off by saying, that while I appreciate and applaud the cinematic feel and vibrance of Advanced Warfighter, one of the most fundamental components fails utterly.

I'll keep this as much to the point as possible, and allow a discussion to follow. I had been so disappointed in Ghost Recon 1 that I didn't even bother to follow the series. The first game had been clunky, relatively easy, and in some ways felt like a cheap pass-off at a military first person shooter by dedicated fans of Redstorm Entertainment. Just because there was elements from Rainbow Six (coordinating teams . . . somewhat) and the reticule markers had made a return, does not mean it was a quality game. The foliage was stiff, the enemy AI rather bland (save for squadmates who did fairly good!), and in general, the game felt like you were playing a video game. The manner of play (everything from movement, to collision detection, to sounds, to engine rendering despite some of the lush textures) made it all seem like a flat soda . . . beer . . . whatever. The subsequent releases left a "re-re-re-release" feeling in my mouth with the lacklustre improvements.

I was mortified and ignored the series - Hard for a dedicated Redstorm fan to do, but necessary to give them a chance in years to come to come out with a solid product.

I believe Advanced Warfighter can be that product, but there are some glaring flaws that would keep me from purchasing this game. I installed the demo excitedly yesterday. I'd seen the flashy videos and wondered if it was going to be just a flashy game or if there was going to be the substance from the flat soda that the previous GR games had demonstrated. I loaded the game up. After muttering this and that about loading times, I was hit with an urban helo insertion along with a video briefing. Mind you, this was not an IGI briefing-during-insertion video, this was it, the feel was there. The set-up was believable, the news took me in (being Canadian myself), the engine performed relatively well for the many boxes that represented buildings in the background, and it all felt cinematic with this raw sense of credibility. Then came the fast-roping. Immediately my mind raced back to the insertion activities in the novel Rainbow Six, and thought "how wonderful, perhaps they would include such things in future Rainbow games, and perhaps even add a dynamic challenge to the actual fast roping itself instead of the 'push-button x,y,z to make your character achieve this or that' mentality in gameplay." Then the game paused . . . for awhile. OH, okay, the game was just saving. No warning or message to me that this was going to happen. Okay, developers, when your game engine takes awhile to load something (and I'm not complaining about the loading times themselves), and it can make your customers' computers appear to freeze for a few moments . . . do them a favour and just let them know with a simple message or saving icon during the process. Yeah, thanks.

I surveyed my troops. Kick-butt. Mean. Ready. The engine really covers a lightyear of cinematic effects of a sunny Mexico and dusty city. I would have liked to have seen perhaps dust breezes along the road from the wind. Just whisps here and there, but who's complaining. The environment was radiant with both stylish flare, and negative energy that something bad was going down and you were in the middle of it, believably so and not just under the "you're a secret uber-genetically-enhanced super soldier with your top-dogs in tow" pretense that befalls so many games. This felt real, and authentic under the realistic premise of advancing technologies and missions scopes we know about now in current the current military of the States. I started analyzing how to deploy my troops. Wonderful. Well done Redstorm. I could see this kind of thing even being applied to future Rainbow releases with the use of multiple teams and a dozen operatives. As it stood alone in Warfighter, I was amazed. The AI on both the enemy and your team is fantastic. I repeat, fantastic. The body crumpling positions get old, however. Kind of like ants that curl up in different ways, but all in the same way.

The major flaws: The firearms themselves are extremely well modelled. Complaints? The sounds. My . . . GOD . . . once again they're absolutely awful. Has anyone at Redstorm ever fired a rifle before? Even a small caliber such as a C7 (Canadian version of the M16) crackles louder than a kitten's mew. One complaint I sincerely had about the GR series (and shared by just about everyone I had talked to throughout the years) was that the rifle sounds are truly horrible in their delivery. The sounds may be a flawlessly recorded acoustic sound of the real deal, but in no way does it mimic anything to what one experiences in real life. There should be sharp crackling, sound echoing off of city walls, a droning out of every other noise around you. I noticed the sounds of bullets screeching near you - This was extremely well done. Everything else about the firearm sounds was just poor, poor, poor. I found this to be in sharp contrast to the music that kept an ambient feel - Well done. As well, I thoroughly enjoyed the flavourful communications going on between you and your team. The glaringly awful firearm sounds made me wonder what was going on at Redstorm. It's been like this since forever, guys, come on, time to be the leader again now that you know something needs to be worked on.

Secondly, what is up with the focused sighting. They bounce to and fro from two different points, like the animations are keyframed between two points, and they don't even represent well where the bullet is actually going to strike. This was the major flaw I had mentioned. I was stunned . . . literally. I spent at least an hour trying to justify the manner of approach for this firing style away. I think the manner of aiming was well intentioned, and it does try in it's attempts to complicate aiming and attempt to model realistic variables (breathing, arm-tiring, etc.). My conclusion, however, is that this, Redstorm, has to be changed. For some firearms, the forearm doesn't even move, just the rifle swaying back and forth in that same key-framed manner. Completely revolting and entirely unprofessional. I've seen mods on other games that have modeled complicated firing styles better (ie. Red Orchestra as a latest example). At least make the holosights and red-dots disappear when the rifle goes away from the angle of your sighted eye. Also, if the markers are going to snap out as far as they do sometimes, you have to model that with the weapons themselves at least slightly. The traces coming from the tips of the rifles kind of look like Delta Force 2 style tracer fire, where you know the rifle is just printed on the screen, and the tracers are like little lines to the centre of the screen or wherever the bullets are going. It definitely flattens out the image on-screen as a whole. I also noticed rendering glitches on some of the rifle reloading animations (it might have been the SCARs) where the magazine is visible through the magazine well during the animation.

All in all, I found the game to be an amazing experience. Unfortunately, that is until I actually had to engage anyone with the firing mechanics such as they are. Then it was painful to play. The ambience of the environments was fantastic. Is there going to be a bad guy around this corner or not? I actually found myself asking that question. I hadn't asked that question or felt really, truly nervous about it since I had first played the original RS from Redstorm when it was first released and blew everyone's minds.

Kudos, Redstorm, kudos. But you've got some serious, serious work to do for the PC fans.

Peace

[silent_op]

Kudos, Redstorm, kudos. But you've got some serious, serious work to do for the PC fans.

Peace

←

You loaded the demo and didn't notice that this game was not made by Red Storm? This was developed by GRIN, not Red Storm. You must have really left the GR world if you kept thinking Red Storm had anything to do with the development of GR:AW (PC).

GR1 was like "flat soda"???

silent_op

Edited May 3, 2006 by silent_op

[Cpl Ledanek]

Welcome aboard Echelon_Four

First of all, I want to congratulate you for finding The Best GhostRecon Community, I hope you would stay and age (gracefully, I hope) among the rest of us.

As Silent_Op, have pointed out, this GR:AW demo was made by GRIN.

That tells me already, you are fairly new, so I will go ahead and warn you that certain group of INDIVIDUALs will may begin to "flame" you on your post.

I highly suggest that you do not respond for a while, just read the post replies. Many will try to educate you on the game development.

Just be patient.

Its a good review, but many will disagree with you since, the fact you didn't know the developers, that tells me you were not on board the first 2-3 yrs this game was conceived.

So grab a chair, and just read for awhile. The education will soon begin.

Hope you have a nice day, and like I said, I hope you will learn and stay with us for awhile.

Cpl.

[Echelon_Four]

Yep, checked it out, you guys are totally right. Sorry about that. Nonetheless, if the content of my message is disregarded based upon a fact-error (need I remind everyone that everyone has done this at one point or another in their lives unintentionally), it doesn't make the content of my message any less legitimate. In fact, whoever developed the game is really not important. It really isn't. Granted, a few personalized sentences could be taken out and I'm reading on the developers. Regardless, the content still stands even if you remove all the trivial areas in the message. There is still a solid set of praises and gripes that are based on the gameplay as gameplay stands such that it is currently. Substitute GRIN for the appropriate places where I've written Redstorm, and the net effect is the same.

I'm really not too concerned. And if my comments are flamed with "n00b" comments, then I would question the comment about "The Best GhostRecon Community."

I've never been welcomed into a community before with such a decorum of "welcome, you're new, remember that," sentimentality. Thanks anyways, though, I know it was said in kindness, but that it could be perceived with a sense of condescension. Honestly, Warfighter came up as a surprise to me. I paid no attention to GR after the first one, so take the review at face value, as someone who has played the whole lot of Clancy games with the exception of later GR games. The principles of the review stand in my opinion, regardless of what happened during the development, or who developed, this game.

Edited May 3, 2006 by Echelon_Four

[IrishStout]

When the game saves there is test that appears that says savign game. You might have missed it because you where focused on a tango. Also if you have a Creative Labs SB X-Fi you might think differently about the sound.

Anyway, you mention that the GAME feels like a Video Game... well .. I have no answer for you other then.. well it is a video game.. a tactical one at that, a very well created tactical game.. but not perfect... I have never played a game that I thought was PERFECT... this has the potientail however of being very close...

If you decide not to buy it.. your right of course.. but I think you might miss out and a fantastic experieince... yes SP has it place but once you play the MP and deal with human thinking.. all I can say is that you just might miss out...

Irish Stout

[tonytwotoes]

I may as well say it here. Thankyou Grin.

You really haven't caved to the instant gratification crowd. You've given us a tactical shooter. I'm absolutely wrapped because I have a game that plays as much like an FPS as a game of chess. I can take my time, set up flanking moves, suck the enemy into killzones, make sure every soldier is doing exactly what I want them to, but if I need to haul ###### across town, I can take point and my team will back me up with the click of two buttons. This, I can't thank you enough for. I get so bored with run and gun games.

A few of the design decisions had me thinking "What the .." But after I played a little more I could see why you did things the way you did.

There are a few things I would like to see - mind you - I've only played a few hours so I might have missed a fair bit.

Xmas list:

More control options in the tacmap. Suppress, draw fire, etc etc.

Fully scalable graphics options for multiplayer. I would rather have a lot of people to play against and a large community, than eye candy. That's my opinion anyway. If you have to drop the top-end graphics options in order to even the playing field, I'd be all for it.

Toggle/OnRelease bind for lean please.

I'm waiting on a better card, so I used the tweaks in order to play at 1024 with this old card, (6600gt) and it plays ok and looks pretty decent. It won't in multiplayer though.

Without the after effects, it looks more like the old GR. I actually don't get why you guys wouldn't make it an in-game option to turn all that stuff off so it runs better for people who can't afford a new rig. It definitely needs a lot more scalability. People ###### and moan about this and that, but when I think about maps like embassy and then look at the map I'm walking around in, I can't complain.

The insertion was BOSS. Loved it. The controls were really hard to get used to but now that I have, the game is getting to be a lot of fun. Getting pinned down, because you were stupid, and having to quickly get into the map and order your team to save your ringpeice is crazy fun. The sound volume should stay up to maintain the urgency though.

If you don't think this is a worthy successor to GR, I don't get it. Add voice commands in a single player mod and I will peak.

I'll buy it. It fairly kicks ######. Can't wait for full version now. Just pleeeaeassse give us lots of mod tools.

Thanks.

Edited May 4, 2006 by tonytwotoes

[TedSmith]

Secondly, what is up with the focused sighting. They bounce to and fro from two different points, like the animations are keyframed between two points, and they don't even represent well where the bullet is actually going to strike. This was the major flaw I had mentioned.

←

This almost sounds as though you have the scope bug that many others are talking about. I'm a little sketchy as to what you mean, so I'll ask to clarify:

When you are standing still and looking through the combat sight or scope of your weapon, is it moving around quite a bit even when you're not moving at all?

If so, then that's a bug, not the way the game is supposed to run. As a sidenote, what sort of system are you running it on? From what I can gather, most people attempting to run the game with 512MB of system RAM have this issue. The game requieres 1GB+ to run properly.

[Dimz]

your post wont be disregarded because of a fact-error , it will be disregarded because your entire post consists of fact errors .

the "focused aiming" youre referring to , is actually what us laymen call " the eye " . it does the damnedest things , like actually focus upon , well , what youre focused on . and if you think you have a fair understanding of what military training is like , then why would a simple right-to-left mtion keyframe animation bother you so much ? this isnt a " MTV's Make a Music Video " pc game , were you expecting britiney spearsch to be one of the Ghosts ?

your comment on the savegame , while both very funny , and indicative that you still have the pc you ran GR on with medium settings , is a very uneducated one . i dont have a great pc , i have a good pc , and it flashes for no more than 3 seconds at a savegame , if at all . for the most part , all i see is the message displayed to inform you the checkpoint was saved delay the information display for less than 2 seconds . nothin to whine about therre , and it doesnt effect me in any noteable manner .

also , were all ready bummed to hear this , but implementation of virtual body suit technology with a conveinient usb interface hasnt happened yet , so youre still gonna have to press a damn button to get out of that chopper 5hitpigeon .

the sounds , well , if you had any common sense , you'd go into the sound settings , reduce the music you love so much , and then raise your master volume , so that the firearms are louder , i know its wierd eh ?

and fyi , projected sight reticles dont just disappear from the scope when youre not lookin at it ... its like " if a tree falls in the woods and nooon'es around , does it still make a sound " ? hmm , i know youre probly thinkin no for that one , but yeah , its been proven , cuz you could leave a sound recorder there , and it will still make a sound .

so you have alot of work to do before you try a demo of a game that isnt done and tell the hardworking developers that you thoroughly enjoyed the game until it began then it sucked cuz you dont know how to play it .

[TedSmith]

The freezing he's experiencing might have nothing to do with the autosave. Mine does that too from time to time, seemingly at random. Going through a full system maintenance right now just to see if it's something external that's causing it or if it's something in the game settings or game itself.

What happens is basically, at random my game will freeze in place for 3-5 seconds and whatever sounds were in place continue to repeat. Ambient sounds continue as normal, gunfire echoes repeatedly and the entire screen freezes with no ability to move or respond to anything. Thankfully it seems the whole game stops, so if someone was shooting at me at the time, I don't come back to the game dead, but in the same place it froze.

May just be that the processor usage is too high, who knows? Will find out soon if I can.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

This almost sounds as though you have the scope bug that many others are talking about. I'm a little sketchy as to what you mean, so I'll ask to clarify:

When you are standing still and looking through the combat sight or scope of your weapon, is it moving around quite a bit even when you're not moving at all?

If so, then that's a bug, not the way the game is supposed to run. As a sidenote, what sort of system are you running it on? From what I can gather, most people attempting to run the game with 512MB of system RAM have this issue. The game requieres 1GB+ to run properly.

Or you having been running and your guy is out of breath (check your stamina and weight) That would unsettle your ret.

[Colin]

Welcome aboard Echelon_Four

First of all, I want to congratulate you for finding The Best GhostRecon Community, I hope you would stay and age (gracefully,  I hope) among the rest of us.

As Silent_Op, have pointed out, this GR:AW demo was made by GRIN.

That tells me already, you are fairly new, so I will go ahead and warn you that certain group of INDIVIDUALs will may begin to "flame" you on your post.

I highly suggest that you do not respond for a while, just read the post replies.  Many will try to educate you on the game development.

Just be patient.

Its a good review, but many will disagree with you since, the fact you didn't know the developers, that tells me you were not on board the first 2-3 yrs this game was conceived.

So grab a chair, and just read for awhile.  The education will soon begin.

Hope you have a nice day, and like I said, I hope you will learn and stay with us for awhile.

Cpl.

←

Good advice.

Good Post.

Welcome

[chilly-willy]

Your long load times may be due to some aging PC hardware or it may be you havent optimized the hardware you have for gaming. You might do a bit of a tune up and see if you cant cut them down. I have no load issues what so ever during a save, the opeing load does take a minute but I'm running all high textures with the texture_managed thing set to TRUE for everything as well so that kind of explains it in my case.

Welcome!

There really arn't any Clancy games for the PC outside of R6, SOAF, and the Ghost Recon series... So is it just R6 you've played?

I forgot about Splinter Cell.

Edited May 3, 2006 by chilly-willy

[stormcrow]

Sorry, I don't really understand why you are surprised that people are a little defensive and might even hit you with 'noob' comments ( even though that hasn't actually happened).

Your first post in a GR site, which strangely enough is full of guys who like GR, takes the original and its add-ons apart. Followed by an extended diatribe about how amateurish GRAW is.

Do you really expect us to welcome you with a warm hug............."ah yes echelon....welcome brother....take a seat...tell us more about how you think our faviroute game/s sucks".

I read that initial post, thats some intro to the forums for a new member. There are alot of guys here who really like GR so obviously being a guy who isn't that keen on the series, you would think a little tact or subtlety might be called for.....?....hrmmm... Diplomacy is right out then? Guys here will always welcome new members with honesty ( well the majority of mature ones), but when your first post takes both GR and GRAW down. What do you expect? A red carpet?

Please.....if anyone does put you down as a Noob or gets their back up...........well all I can say........if the shoe fits............

[Echelon_Four]

Sorry, I don't really understand why you are surprised that people are a little defensive and might even hit you with 'noob' comments ( even though that hasn't actually happened).

Your first post in a GR site, which strangely enough is full of guys who like GR, takes the original and its add-ons apart. Followed by an extended diatribe about how amateurish GRAW is.

Do you really expect us to welcome you with a warm hug............."ah yes echelon....welcome brother....take a seat...tell us more about how you think our faviroute game/s sucks".

I read that initial post, thats some intro to the forums for a new member. There are alot of guys here who really like GR so obviously being a guy who isn't that keen on the series, you would think a little tact or subtlety might be called for.....?....hrmmm... Diplomacy is right out then? Guys here will always welcome new members with honesty ( well the majority of mature ones), but when your first post takes both GR and GRAW down. What do you expect? A red carpet?

Please.....if anyone does put you down as a Noob or gets their back up...........well all I can say........if the shoe fits............

←

Mmm. Good point. All of my gaming friends are mature people who love to discuss openly good points and bad points about their favourite games. I'm sorry that environment is clearly not the norm here, it's actually quite a freeing existence to talk about games that way.

[Echelon_Four]

your post wont be disregarded because of a fact-error , it will be disregarded because your entire post consists of fact errors .

What...is this? Really?

the "focused aiming" youre referring to , is actually what us laymen call " the eye " . it does the damnedest things , like actually focus upon , well , what youre focused on . and if you think you have a fair understanding of what military training is like , then why would a simple right-to-left mtion keyframe animation bother you so much ? this isnt a " MTV's Make a Music Video " pc game , were you expecting britiney spearsch to be one of the Ghosts ?

How old are you?

your comment on the savegame , while both very funny , and indicative that you still have the pc you ran GR on with medium settings , is a very uneducated one . i dont have a great pc , i have a good pc , and it flashes for no more than 3 seconds at a savegame , if at all . for the most part , all i see is the message displayed to inform you the checkpoint was saved delay the information display for less than 2 seconds . nothin to whine about therre , and it doesnt effect me in any noteable manner .

Absolutely. *nods* Could have easily been my hardware! I'll try the game on some of my higher end hardware, then.

also , were all ready bummed to hear this , but implementation of virtual body suit technology with a conveinient usb interface hasnt happened yet , so youre still gonna have to press a damn button to get out of that chopper 5hitpigeon .

There's gameplay mechanics you can program that creatively keep the action in your hands. Foot or hand tension on the fast-rope, balance, whatever.

the sounds , well , if you had any common sense , you'd go into the sound settings , reduce the music you love so much , and then raise your master volume , so that the firearms are louder , i know its wierd eh ?

It's not just about volume. You can raise the volume on anything. Just because the volume on a rifle shot becomes louder, doesn't mean it accurately reflects sound attenuation, which, I'm sorry to say, is not something that is outside the bounds of current mathematical and programming skills.

and fyi , projected sight reticles dont just disappear from the scope when youre not lookin at it ... its like " if a tree falls in the woods and nooon'es around , does it still make a sound " ? hmm , i know youre probly thinkin no for that one , but yeah , its been proven , cuz you could leave a sound recorder there , and it will still make a sound.

Continuing to read through the hostility in your post finally got to me. Look, have you ever looked through a holosight? Let's take Bushnell for example. When you're looking through it, you see this dot, a circle, and short ticked markers at the 12, 3, 6, and 9 o'clock quarters. Now look, let's say you've got the firearm's initial bullet trajectory/holosight perfectly in line with your eyes. If you cant the firearm around your shoulder with your head/eye maintaining that position perfectly sighted through the holosight, the reticule will not move. If you cant the firearm a little and keep your head/eyes in the same aiming spot, the reticule will wave around a great within the holosight. Cant the firearm enough in relation to your eyes, and the reticule disappears off to the extremities of the holosight even if you can still see through it. This is to reflect the new trajectory of the firearm. It's just how holosights work. In the game, for your reticule to remain centered like it is, you'd have to be moving your head/eyes in perfect relation to how you were aiming the firearm when it was all centered up. Basically you'd look like a bobblehead or at least get dizzy from moving your eyes around in the way they've animated it. Bouncing...back...and forth...and back...and forth

so you have alot of work to do before you try a demo of a game that isnt done and tell the hardworking developers that you thoroughly enjoyed the game until it began then it sucked cuz you dont know how to play it .

Listen, my friend, I know how hard developers can and do work. That's why how I wrote it was constructive criticism. I enjoyed the demo thoroughly. Now sod off or let's discuss this.

[stormcrow]

Sorry, I don't really understand why you are surprised that people are a little defensive and might even hit you with 'noob' comments ( even though that hasn't actually happened).

Your first post in a GR site, which strangely enough is full of guys who like GR, takes the original and its add-ons apart. Followed by an extended diatribe about how amateurish GRAW is.

Do you really expect us to welcome you with a warm hug............."ah yes echelon....welcome brother....take a seat...tell us more about how you think our faviroute game/s sucks".

I read that initial post, thats some intro to the forums for a new member. There are alot of guys here who really like GR so obviously being a guy who isn't that keen on the series, you would think a little tact or subtlety might be called for.....?....hrmmm... Diplomacy is right out then? Guys here will always welcome new members with honesty ( well the majority of mature ones), but when your first post takes both GR and GRAW down. What do you expect? A red carpet?

Please.....if anyone does put you down as a Noob or gets their back up...........well all I can say........if the shoe fits............

←

Mmm. Good point. All of my gaming friends are mature people who love to discuss openly good points and bad points about their favourite games. I'm sorry that environment is clearly not the norm here, it's actually quite a freeing existence to talk about games that way.

←

Oh please c'mon Echelon that is pretty weak, there are alot of guys here with balanced views, who point out the various weakness's in GRAW and even GR. I actually think that GRAW needs alot of work as well, but there are ways of gettiing the message across, a first 5000 word post on how bad everything is in GR land is hardly going to be well received.

You obviously haven't spent long enough here, if you hang around and turn the volume down you'll find there are alot of decent guys who will 'openly' discuss this and other games.

There's being balanced and open, and then there's being negative from the start, a huge difference.

Its fine not to like GR and GRAW here, a bit wierd and out of place mind you, but still we tolerate all sorts here at GR.net!..... But go easy on your first post is all I'm saying.......ya dig?'.

[Echelon_Four]

Yeah, I dig. I suppose I came at it from the perspective of a forum member who had been on hiatus. I used to be a regular forum member years ago on this site (ie. long before before Monolith ever had to deal with bhd93.com if that gives anyone an indication, you know, when the roost or whatever it was called was popular as well, way before serellan was hired by Redstorm).

How about this. Treat me like an old regular, because I am. Heck, I even modded the hell out of Ghost Recon extensively and was involved with several mod teams (one of them being listed in PCGamer way back when), I was just away for a few years during the sequals. Surprise. I'm back now that Warfighter is here. Forgive little errors here and there where I am still catching up, but by no lacklustre means, am I a n00b to ghostrecon.net, or agr-s.com, or raven-shield.com, or if you want to go way back, planetrainbowsix or even the cream of the crop at the time for modding - roguespeardatabase.com. I've been around for awhile. I might not be remembered after so many years and starting with a new handle, but I'm still the same person and member of the Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six community that I always was.

Later

[stormcrow]

Yeah, I dig. I suppose I came at it from the perspective of a forum member who had been on hiatus. I used to be a regular forum member years ago on this site (ie. long before before Monolith ever had to deal with bhd93.com if that gives anyone an indication, you know, when the roost or whatever it was called was popular as well, way before serellan was hired by Redstorm).

How about this. Treat me like an old regular, because I am. Heck, I even modded the hell out of Ghost Recon extensively and was involved with several mod teams (one of them being listed in PCGamer way back when), I was just away for a few years during the sequals. Surprise. I'm back now that Warfighter is here. Forgive little errors here and there where I am still catching up, but by no lacklustre means, am I a n00b to ghostrecon.net, or agr-s.com, or raven-shield.com, or if you want to go way back, planetrainbowsix or even the cream of the crop at the time for modding - roguespeardatabase.com. I've been around for awhile. I might not be remembered after so many years and starting with a new handle, but I'm still the same person and member of the Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six community that I always was.

Later

←

Okay now I'm feeling the love and I can see the R6 veteran scars in there.....I started on Rogue spear and will always love those old missions.......it is my first love. I still love those snow maps!

Anyway, welcome, good to see another R6 old timer aboard! your views and 'constructive' and detailed criticism is welcome.......cheers.

[Dimz]

i still have no respect for one who throws a bunch of bs just cuz they mad in a post , then completely disregards the corrections with " what is this? really ? " , and " how old are you " ...

if you dont like the game , dont play it ... i'd definitely be more happy to not see you around in-game , than to see you playin and then you'd probly stalk me around the map goin " how old are you " and " this game sux "

[NYR_32]

i still have no respect for one who throws a bunch of bs just cuz they mad in a post , then completely disregards the corrections with " what is this? really ? " , and " how old are you " ...

if you dont like the game , dont play it ... i'd definitely be more happy to not see you around in-game , than to see you playin and then you'd probly stalk me around the map goin " how old are you " and " this game sux "

←

You need to know when to stop. Consider this a warning.

[3.12] Disruption Disruptive or persistently argumentative behavior will not be tolerated .

[Dimz]

Disruption Disruptive or Persistently Argumentative ? hes the one hittin the refresh button bout 8 times a minute to throw back some derogatory statement at me , because he posts false statements and opinions that not only bash RSE and GRiN and Ubi , but has no foothold in reality .

I'll take a warning for that , but if you like your job , you might consider doing it well .

Edited May 4, 2006 by Dimz

[NYR_32]

I'll take a warning for that , but if you like your job , you might consider doing it well .

No the situation worked itself out nicely. So you needed to drop it. And DO NOT, and I mean DO NOT pull the "but if you like your job , you might consider doing it well" thing with me. This is NOT my job, I do all of my "work" for this site on my free time (and at times at great personal expense), so don't talk down to me like that. Now I suggest you leave this topic alone for good, and read the forums rules once or twice.

[3.4] Forum Moderators : Abuse directed at Forum Admin or Moderators will not be tolerated and will result in instant account deletion for the offender. Staff members are carefully selected and have my full backing, they give their own free time to dedicate themselves to this site and abuse directed at them will not be tolerated.

[Dimz]

damn dogg , you can post all the jargon you want till youre "blue in the face " mind you , or "till the cows come home " , and "count your chickens before theyre hatched " but "killing two birds with one stone is better than a feather in the pocket " , so there you have it .

[NYR_32]

Here's more jargon for you. Post Mod.

Nothing more to see here.

[Echelon_Four]

Okay now I'm feeling the love and I can see the R6 veteran scars in there.....I started on Rogue spear and will always love those old missions.......it is my first love. I still love those snow maps!

Anyway, welcome, good to see another R6 old timer aboard! your views and 'constructive' and detailed criticism is welcome.......cheers.

But DARN does it feel good to feel that love. For awhile there I was wondering where all the old boys had gone. Thank you for not taking my message in a vein of vanity, I was simply doing that, showing the old-timer's scars. lol In fact I should mention I was in the thick of that whole stuff with Monolith trying to convince the BHD93 crowd not to take legal action against others involved with recreating the events, and not that I was just merely present during that period of time: He and I earned a lot of respect for the R6 and Ghost Recon communities, though he stuck around longer than I did to upkeep his discussions with them due to my academic obligations, one of the reasons I had to leave the communities altogether eventually instead of posting sporatically). I had always agreed with their position, though Monolith had to be convinced by them given that he was the original person wanting to recreate '93 with the GR engine, But once they won him over he was a staunch advocate for them in the R6/GR communities, as was I, and he kept going probably in their community long after I had to go - Oh God, this all brings back memories I hadn't even thought of in ages, literally years!!! haha Cool.

Anyways, yeah, what are your guys' thoughts on the authenticity of how the firearms are modeled in game? Everything from the rendering, to the firing mechanics, to the sounds, etc.