Whisper_44 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 The Governor has opened up the southbound lanes so that all 8 lanes of the highway are available for Northbound Traffic, how about that, they have buses too being used to pull people out whom cannot leave for whatever reason on their own. It's a prime example of lessons learned the hard way, leave to the fine PEOPLE of Texas to get it right, there are chosing not to be VICTIMS. I applaud the governor, and the citizens. Human beings are the only animal that can choose their place in the food chain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabellum Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 When I went to bed last night, the news was showing Rita as the 3rd most powerful storm on record in the Atlantic Ocean, packing sustained winds of over 175 mph. Hopefully, it will weaken quite a bit more before it hits. I can't imagine what would happen if a storm with that kind of power hit land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specter Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 (edited) Now, what will happen since the stupid government ordered the evac, but hasn't gotten any troops in there to help facilitate the evacuation, is that all those people stuck on the freeways won't be able to get out, and will get stranded like alot of the Louisiana refugees did. ← So it's now the governments job is to lead people by the hand and tell them what to do? That's ridiculous. ← No. The government shouldn't lead anyone by the hand. But they should have the resources in there helping. Not everyone can get out on their own. The government has resources that should be put in place to help with evacuations of such a large scale. And as a tax paying citizen, just like those people evacuating, yes. Our government does have a responsibility to respond or even pre-emptively put those resources in place to help our own people. There are sick and elderly that can't get out, patients in hospitals that can't get out, people with no transportation and no money. No. The government doesn't have to hold everyone's hand. But our government has a prime responsibility to help those that can't help themselves. Damned tootin' they do. If we have the resources to police the world and mind everyone else's business, damned straight we should use those resources to help our own people. Something thisa government has been lacking in for far too long. Edited September 23, 2005 by Phantm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RooK Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 No. The government shouldn't lead anyone by the hand. But they should have the resources in there helping. Not everyone can get out on their own. The government has resources that should be put in place to help with evacuations of such a large scale. And as a tax paying citizen, just like those people evacuating, yes. Our government does have a responsibility to respond or even pre-emptively put those resources in place to help our own people. There are sick and elderly that can't get out, patients in hospitals that can't get out, people with no transportation and no money. No. The government doesn't have to hold everyone's hand. But our government has a prime responsibility to help those that can't help themselves. Damned tootin' they do. If we have the resources to police the world and mind everyone else's business, damned straight we should use those resources to help our own people. Something thisa government has been lacking in for far too long. ← Not to get too technical or political, but those that can't afford to evacuate probably aren't tax paying citizens, or at least if they are they already get back more from the government in food stamps, wic, hud, or health insurance than they contribute. There is a point where you have to draw the line. If the gov't can help, fine. But they shouldn't be persecuted for trying to help and failing. I think the worst part of the Katrina crap isn't the lack of food/water assistance but rather the lack of information to the people so they can help themselves and local/state governments contradicting each other. People were even having houses and businesses robbed and looted, sometimes even by cops and then some wackos were shooting at contractors (some firearms were stolen from a Wal-Mart as well). What was NO's response? Confiscate guns from everyone. They don't even have enough cops to stop the looting, how are they going to enforce that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pz3 Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 The best home defence is a pump action shotgun. Because everyone knows when u ###### it you mean buisness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RooK Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 If you're racking it, then you're doing something wrong: A: It wasn't loaded when it should have been. B: You just ejected and wasted a shell if it was loaded. C: You gave your existance/position away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pz3 Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 (edited) Keeps the burglars away... I would rether them crap themselfs and run then have to shoot any one. of course, if your facing armed people its bad, but not to many house theifs arm themselfs. Last time i cought a guy snooping on our neighboors carport, i scared the ###### out of him stearing at him smoking a ciggerete. Edited September 23, 2005 by Prozac360 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Keeps the burglars away... I would rether them crap themselfs and run then have to shoot any one. of course, if your facing armed people its bad, but not to many house theifs arm themselfs. Last time i cought a guy snooping on our neighboors carport, i scared the ###### out of him stearing at him smoking a ciggerete. ← Should've went Sam Fisher on his ###### and snuck up behind him, then light up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruin Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Now, what will happen since the stupid government ordered the evac, but hasn't gotten any troops in there to help facilitate the evacuation, is that all those people stuck on the freeways won't be able to get out, and will get stranded like alot of the Louisiana refugees did. ← So it's now the governments job is to lead people by the hand and tell them what to do? That's ridiculous. ← No. The government shouldn't lead anyone by the hand. But they should have the resources in there helping. Not everyone can get out on their own. The government has resources that should be put in place to help with evacuations of such a large scale. And as a tax paying citizen, just like those people evacuating, yes. Our government does have a responsibility to respond or even pre-emptively put those resources in place to help our own people. There are sick and elderly that can't get out, patients in hospitals that can't get out, people with no transportation and no money. No. The government doesn't have to hold everyone's hand. But our government has a prime responsibility to help those that can't help themselves. Damned tootin' they do. If we have the resources to police the world and mind everyone else's business, damned straight we should use those resources to help our own people. Something thisa government has been lacking in for far too long. ← Probably the most logically sound post in this thread (forum?) right now. We have to be prepared for a storm like this (and Katrina) not wait to start the process after it has hit. We need to be ready to send out troops, food, supplies etc as soon as the storm passes. IE: The trucks are loaded, troops are activated and ready to roll out when the hour comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 The best home defence is a pump action shotgun. Because everyone knows when u ###### it you mean buisness ← yeah, shoot the hurricane. Its attitudes like that led to the chaos after katrina. Cops and soldiers getting shot at when they were trying to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pz3 Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 i didnt say shoot the hurricane or the cops... im talking in general. Police usually wont come into a house without atleast identifying themselfs at the door with a knock first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 ###### it, i dont care enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhawk Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 (edited) It often amazes me, though I guess it really shouldn't, how quickly people forget that the federal government is restricted constitutuionally from acting in many cases. Each state of the union is seperate and yet all are united into one nation. The responsibilty for natural disaters, and preparations for such, start at the local and state level. If the ball gets dropped there there's nothing the federal government can do. While I am still trying to find some basis in fact on the subject President Bush just today stated that the federal government is only responsible to assist for 75% of the states infrastructure. IE roads and sewers and such. That is the extent of their legal obligation to the states monetarily. What they do beyond that may in fact be a different thing altogether and as long as they are not violating a state's sovereignty then that's all fine and good. The Federal Government should keep their nose out of what states do. As long as those actions by those states don't act beyond their legal boundries as well. You want to put blame somewhere for Katrinia put it in the right spot. With the citizens and the elected officials of New Orleans and Louisana. People need to stop looking at big brother for help all the time and help themselves. I heard today that there are those concerned about the unemployment rate because of Katrinia and now Rita and that blows my mind. What are those victims doing? Sitting on their hind ends waiting for someone else to come in and fix what is broken. Here's a thought put those victims, who are physically able (IE Not injured or infirmed in some way) to work repairing levees or helping to drain flooded areas or any number of other such type of work I am sure they are capable of doing. Too d##mn bad if they aren't pushing a pencil come Monday. Push a broom instead. If that makes me a cold heartless b****** then so be it. Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk Edited September 23, 2005 by warhawk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteKnight77 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 What many people down there failed to realize that a major part of the reason for a slow response with goods and such is that everything had to come by road. Roads that were impassable. A trucker (former Marine) who carried stuff down there related how there were bulldozer marks and track of other construction type vehicles all in the road. He even related how piles of debris were stacked 20 feet high in places of Mississippi. Does anyone have any idea of how slow a bulldozer actually moves? They were lucky to clear 3 miles of road in an hour. It was easier around interchanges and such, but out in the middle of nowhere, all those damaged trees were in the road. Take a look at pictures. Trees are decimated in many places. Those alone will make up most of the storm debris that needs to be cleaned up. Those very same trees are what was blocking the roads. The US government can't get trees moved any faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCarr Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 Warhawk, I couldn't agree more. I live in Texas and have 2 friends that lost their homes in Misissippi and niether they nor I blame the govt. My sister and her family live in Houston and they left in plenty of time and had no problems other than extreme gas price gouging (That is something that the govt should control) I have followed both storms very closly and IMO, I place blame firstly on the mayor and Gov of LA for their lack of planning and acting, secondly the citizens in New Orleans that stayed, FOR WHATEVER REASON, and lastly a small percent to the govt for not overiding the idiots in control in LA, who obviously were NOT in control and for not implementing the full force of marshal law and shooting looters, which for a large part were comprised of organized gangs from other states as well. I have contributed to the Red Cross and the Salvation Army and even volunteered at Reunion Arena and the one thing I notice more than anything else is a lack of personal responsibility for your own well being. Makes me glad I am not a first responder who has to risk my life because someone was to stupid to leave when they knew they should have. Then they expect my tax money to help them rebuild their house in the same spot it was in the first place so it can be demolished again, I don't think so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specter Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 Warhawk, I couldn't agree more. I live in Texas and have 2 friends that lost their homes in Misissippi and niether they nor I blame the govt. My sister and her family live in Houston and they left in plenty of time and had no problems other than extreme gas price gouging (That is something that the govt should control) I have followed both storms very closly and IMO, I place blame firstly on the mayor and Gov of LA for their lack of planning and acting, secondly the citizens in New Orleans that stayed, FOR WHATEVER REASON, and lastly a small percent to the govt for not overiding the idiots in control in LA, who obviously were NOT in control and for not implementing the full force of marshal law and shooting looters, which for a large part were comprised of organized gangs from other states as well. I have contributed to the Red Cross and the Salvation Army and even volunteered at Reunion Arena and the one thing I notice more than anything else is a lack of personal responsibility for your own well being. Makes me glad I am not a first responder who has to risk my life because someone was to stupid to leave when they knew they should have. Then they expect my tax money to help them rebuild their house in the same spot it was in the first place so it can be demolished again, I don't think so! ← Everyone is real big on blaming the folks who didn't get out, yet most of those who were left had no way out. 80% of the folks were evac'd. But let's blame the sick for not being able to get out of the hospital, and let's blame the poor for not having money to get gouged out of, or cars to drive, and let's blame the folks that wouldn't leave infirm relatives without any hope. Good idea. The government, whether local or federal is responsible for not getting help in there. Whether all you macho types want to believe it or not, not everyone has a way out. And it would do everyone well to keep that in mind. Someday it may be you who can't get out for one reason or another. Think how you would feel if your government and the people around you, like some here, blamed you for being crippled up or poor because sometimes ###### just happens. I'm really glad that alot of the folks here bad mouthing the victims aren't being relied on for help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisper_44 Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 When 75 percent of New Orleans residents had left the city, it was primarily the immoral & welfare-pampered that stayed behind and waited for the government to bail them out. - I would hardly call them "victims" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specter Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 (edited) When 75 percent of New Orleans residents had left the city, it was primarily the immoral & welfare-pampered that stayed behind and waited for the government to bail them out. - I would hardly call them "victims" ← And that I would like to see proof of. And why does everyone think that EVERYONE on welfare is pampered? You guys really need to get out more. I'm not saying that they were all innocent by any stretch. But you guys are lumping everyone together in that category, and you don't know a damn thing about any of them. Edited September 24, 2005 by Phantm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCarr Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 Someday it may be you who can't get out for one reason or another. Think how you would feel if your government and the people around you, like some here, blamed you for being crippled up or poor because sometimes ###### just happens. I have thought this out long and hard and if I had no money and no vehicle and knew that my life might end because a hurricane was going to hit my city, I would crawl to a bus station and beg for help or hitch a ride, whatever it took to get the hell out of dodge, again, it's personal responsibility. But then again, I am not sitting around my house waiting for my govt check, so maybe it's a different mind set. I'm really glad that alot of the folks here bad mouthing the victims aren't being relied on for help. I guess you missed the part of my previous post about the money and time I have donated, oh well. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCarr Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 And why does everyone think that EVERYONE on welfare is pampered? Because lots CAN go out and get employment, but choose not to - LAZY! (at least in e US) You guys really need to get out more. I'm not saying that they were all innocent by any stretch. But you guys are lumping everyone together in that category, and you don't know a damn thing about any of them. I know I am not lumping everyone into this same situation, there are elderly and sick that cannot/could not do anything for themselves, they have people that look after them, or should and these people should have gotten them out, so yes, there is/was neglegence on their part and on the part of the city officials on getting them out, no doubt about that. But while you seem to think we are seeing just the one side, you seem to be seeing just one side as well. I lost my job several years ago and faced being in a situation as many people that are at a poverty level, BUT I chose to get out of it and do something about it. I just hired a guy from N.O. that is lower income and did lose his home and everything it it. We have talked about the situation and he feels that many could have helped themselves out, but chose not to. It was all he could do to get out of town. Man does he hate the mayor of N.O., LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pz3 Posted September 24, 2005 Author Share Posted September 24, 2005 trying to not get to political or all thrown off topic. Personally living in Florida I know how bad hurricanes can be. Iv been threw 4 of them in my lifetime and about 4 other tropical storms. When you live along the beach or close to coastal waters, You do NOT want to be anywhere near low lying land. Its called a welfare state of living. You live paycheck by paycheck off money that the goverment gives you. While it isnt enough to buy a car or valuables like computers or tvs it is just enough to get by on living in bassicly poverty. These people have the resources to better there lives but dont take the initative because they are lazy. While there are a lot of variable reasons such as drugs or educations etc.. In short they live off what is giving to them. Dont get me wrong entirely, there is elderly and sick that could not do anything about it. My mother is a nurse and I have seen what goes on with that and its bad enough on a day to day situation. Trying to move them all to avoide a hurricane Is probly one of the hardest things to do compared to a person that is able to walk and think for themselfs. That beeing said it is said and unfortunate that things like this go on everyday that no one really notices untill such an event happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteKnight77 Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 The worst part about it all is that Louisiana has some of the most corrupt governments in a state. Heck. even Atlanta's current police chief was the cheif in NO to clean it up. Did a pretty fair job of it, but seems as if some old hands went back to the old ways. Phantm, I wish you would take a trip down to the local department of family services where medicaid and food stamps are doled out. It would be an eye opener. I for one am tired of trying to feed and heal everyone with my tax dollars. I have seen my county DFACS office clientel change drastically over the years. You should know as well as I do, that we do not have a socialist government here. The feds aren't here to provide everyone with any help that they need as they shouldn't. No where in our Constitution does it say that the military have to evactuate those in danger from mother nature or even bail them out afterwards. It is up to the individual states to do so. The fact is, Louisiana waited to ask for help. For those who complained that it took a while for them to get there, think about this. Roads were impassable from the trees and debris that was strewn about them. A former Marine who is now a trucker took a load of supplies down there and related how the roads were all marked up with dozer tracks and stacks of debris up to 20 feet high in places. In the places one could see behind the stacks of debris, trees were all gone (ended up in the road). The dozers were lucky to clear 3 miles of road in an hour. How long do you think that it took to clear them roads enough to be passable? How is it Bush's or the feds fault the debris couldn't be removed from the roads any faster? Want a birds eye view of the devistation of Katrina? Take a look at these Satellite Images pages to see what happened along the coast. That pic I posted yesterday is from these pics. There are pics around Lake Ponchatrain showing large areas of trees flattened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisper_44 Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 Phantm, I wish you would take a trip down to the local department of family services where medicaid and food stamps are doled out. It would be an eye opener. I for one am tired of trying to feed and heal everyone with my tax dollars. I have seen my county DFACS office clientel change drastically over the years. ← Opened my eyes right up, if I seem apathetic it's because I don't understand how the able boddied can sit there and wait with their hand out because they feel entitled, because they feel that they are owed something. I know that there were instances where the sytem failed people, but therein lies the fact that the system isn't meant to save, it's meant to assist people who strive to help themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteKnight77 Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 The worst part is that they all want handouts. I have seen women with 4, 5 or more kids sitting in there wanting food stamps or more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specter Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 (edited) Someday it may be you who can't get out for one reason or another. Think how you would feel if your government and the people around you, like some here, blamed you for being crippled up or poor because sometimes ###### just happens. I have thought this out long and hard and if I had no money and no vehicle and knew that my life might end because a hurricane was going to hit my city, I would crawl to a bus station and beg for help or hitch a ride, whatever it took to get the hell out of dodge, again, it's personal responsibility. But then again, I am not sitting around my house waiting for my govt check, so maybe it's a different mind set. I'm really glad that alot of the folks here bad mouthing the victims aren't being relied on for help. I guess you missed the part of my previous post about the money and time I have donated, oh well. Michael ← And who says that all of the people that were trapped there were "sitting around their house waiting for a gov't. check? What if they were disabled? How about we get the elderly to crawl behind you to a bus station and beg for help. And let me guess: if you had ill or infirm family members and were stuck in there, that you would have left them there, on the off chance you would find someone to help you. It's all well and good for everyone to sit here and be an arm chair critic and talk all this crap, but the simple fact is, you weren't there, you didn't know those people, and you didn't know their circumstances. So what gives you the right to lump them all together as a bunch of freeloaders? Back in the day we called that talkin' out your ass. And I remember a time way back, when you would have called it that to. You are now saying all the things that you never used to tolerate here. And you know what, WK? I don't like our welfare system either. It ######ing sucks. But that doesn't mean that everyone on it is a freeloader, and none of us here knows who is or isn't. But ya know what, you're right, WK. Let them all die because there are a few bad apples. And why don't you tell me about your foolproof system of telling who's who. This ought to be good. What really gets me WK, is you used to be the one doing what I am right now. And what are you going to do if you can't find work after your unemployment runs out? And who says that alot of those people didn't go out and look for work, and couldn't find any? Why don't you tell us all what an expert you are on the employment situation in Louisiana, and how you can prove that ALL of those stuck in that city were worthless freeloaders? Of course I can see how it would be real easy to come to that conclusion being the expert that you are. So now we have the Houston traffic jams. What if those people get caught and can't get out? You going to lump them in that group too? Your motto used to be 'Don't judge.' Whatever happened to that? Don't judge, lest you be judged. And I'll tell you right here, right now: there ain't one of us here who are qualified or have the knowledge to make the kind of judgments you guys are making. What if it was any of you stuck in there with a legitimate reason for being stuck: bed ridden relative, crippled relative, crippled yourself, no money, no transportation, any number of legitimate reasons, but the gov't. said '###### you. Your just a no count freeloader.' This is the kind of crap that the North Korean gov't., or Saddam's former gov't., or the former communist Russian gov't. would say. All the reasons you went into the military; to try and save people in other countries less fortunate than yourself. But you sit and talk like this about your own countryman. You know, the fact that 80% of the people got out of that city is a bloomin' miracle in itself. 80 ######' percent. That tells me that there were more than just welfare junkies and looters left in there. When you hit welfare at a ripe old age because there is no social security, I guess that means that you are a no count freeloader yourself, right? Or maybe the person with no discs left in her back who is on welfare because she CAN'T work, yeah, she's a freeloader too. Oh wait ! ! That is my mother I'm talking about. Well hell, just dump her and leave her. WK, you used to believe in looking beyond a stupid stereotype. Guess that went out the window, eh? Edited September 24, 2005 by Phantm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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