New Map in progress

[sleeper]

8000-9000 foliage objects

Welcome to all of our dreams.

[deleyt]

An exportfirst-model is a master of an object which will be used by references. The engine has an optimization-feature build in that will speed up the rendering if an exportfirst-model is used.

The PDF says:

Export first

Using an exportfirst model for each tree allows for changes to be made to the tree without requiring replacement of all trees in the map. It’s a good habit to start.

All it takes is a single copy of a tree object with the name changed to “<exportfirst>x” where x is the same unique identifier used in the original model.

Example: <exportfirst>maple

The exportfirst model becomes a master model for any dynamic objects in the scene with the same identifier.

The objects scattered and placed in the map must have the original, full naming.

If exportfirst models are placed on the terrain in the scene, they will NOT show up in the game.

It is only a geometry and tagging master. If changes in tagging, geometry or mapping must be made to a certain type of tree, those changes may be applied to the exportfirst model, and when the map is exported, those changes will be applied to all trees with that identifier in the map.

Changes made like this will NEVER show up in the other trees in the MAX scene without manually replacing all the models. Do not look for the changes to show up in the non-exportfirst models in MAX.

The only other requirement is that the exportfirst model is present somewhere in the scene when the map is exported.

If no exportfirst model is created, no problems should occur, but the geometry and tagging on each tree model in the scene will be exported individually.

On the subject of occluders, see THIS THREAD

[lexsis]

thank you all for the info, Im going to try again with the foliage, the map looks good as it is now but I do like all the places to hide so I'll save what I can and dump the rest.

[deleyt]

Did you try playing your map with a scripted mission, or in Multiplayer with several players?

If not, try it. You'll quickly see why too much foliage will make a map unplayable.

Trust me, if you don't make it playable, people will simply ditch the map very quickly again and that would be a shame since you put so much effort into it.

[OSO]

If you're looking for a lot of cover use more boulders with clumps of foliage dispersed between the areas. It will provide areas of cover and small bases for tactical movement.

The AI can see right through the foliage so it looks cool but it really makes a map no fun to play because of the strain it puts on a system. I forget the name of the map but there is one of the East Front maps in War of Infamy that uses a lot of high grass. It looks pretty but chokes the system down to 8-12 fps and the AI nails you from 100m away with you never having a chance to see them. The other problem with that map is that it has many portals facing each other in close proximity not to mention the 80,000+ polys on the map.

Another option you might want to look into (not on this map) is to create a dynamic grass object. It can be anything really but it is exported on its own and then referenced via a helper point to dynamically place the foliage around the player. The restriction is it only works in a room with floor polygons tagged as high grass.

[lexsis]

|rsi|™deleyt: I made a quick cheesey mission, added 100 enemies and there was no slowdown. the map only slowed down when I added something like 10 vehicles. the enemies were visible, not hidden. I suppose thats still different from playing MP. hopefully I can get a few people to test it out with me, that would be great.

EL_OSO: I tonned down the foliage alot., Im only using it in areas that are out in the open, and still only a small bit of it. see pix in post below.

[lexsis]

updated foliage shots:

[Stalker]

|rsi|™deleyt:  I made a quick cheesey mission, added 100 enemies and there was no slowdown. the map only slowed down when I added something like 10 vehicles. the enemies were visible, not hidden. I suppose thats still different from playing MP.  hopefully I can get a few people to test it out with me, that would be great.

←

actors are not the only problem. if you have a script with 60 or more script blocks it will slow down the framerates for sure

[sleeper]

Why aren't your tree objects casting shadows?

[lexsis]

[lexsis]

Why aren't your tree objects casting shadows?

←

I was saving the lighting tool for last, I want to 3 versions (day, night & dusk/dawn) at that time the shadows will come, but funny cause I wouldnt have noticed they were missing had you not said anything. thnx.

[lexsis]

started playing around with the exportfirstmodel and this is the result, something wrong.

Ceilings tagged as a floors in room 1

This can cause problems with placing objects in this room with Igor.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <118.468, -77.4306, 19.0756> V1: <118.468, -74.9345, 19.0756> V2: <119.462, -74.9345, 19.0756>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <119.462, -74.9345, 19.0756> V1: <119.462, -77.4306, 19.0756> V2: <118.468, -77.4306, 19.0756>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <118.468, -77.4306, 19.1049> V1: <119.462, -74.9345, 19.1049> V2: <119.462, -77.4306, 19.1049>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <119.462, -74.9345, 19.1049> V1: <118.468, -77.4306, 19.1049> V2: <118.468, -74.9345, 19.1049>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <120.619, -86.994, 19.9555> V1: <119.624, -86.994, 19.9555> V2: <119.624, -84.4979, 19.9555>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <119.624, -84.4979, 19.9555> V1: <120.619, -84.4979, 19.9555> V2: <120.619, -86.994, 19.9555>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <125.392, -82.3445, 20.2978> V1: <127.888, -82.3445, 20.2978> V2: <127.888, -83.3391, 20.2978>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <127.888, -83.3391, 20.2978> V1: <125.392, -83.3391, 20.2978> V2: <125.392, -82.3445, 20.2978>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <125.392, -78.6756, 20.2978> V1: <127.888, -78.6756, 20.2978> V2: <127.888, -79.6702, 20.2978>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <127.888, -79.6702, 20.2978> V1: <125.392, -79.6702, 20.2978> V2: <125.392, -78.6756, 20.2978>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <120.619, -86.994, 19.9847> V1: <119.624, -84.4979, 19.9847> V2: <120.619, -84.4979, 19.9847>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <119.624, -84.4979, 19.9847> V1: <120.619, -86.994, 19.9847> V2: <119.624, -86.994, 19.9847>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <125.392, -82.3445, 20.3271> V1: <127.888, -83.3391, 20.3271> V2: <125.392, -83.3391, 20.3271>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <127.888, -83.3391, 20.3271> V1: <125.392, -82.3445, 20.3271> V2: <127.888, -82.3445, 20.3271>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <125.392, -78.6756, 20.3271> V1: <127.888, -79.6702, 20.3271> V2: <125.392, -79.6702, 20.3271>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <127.888, -79.6702, 20.3271> V1: <125.392, -78.6756, 20.3271> V2: <127.888, -78.6756, 20.3271>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <114.799, -77.4306, 19.0756> V1: <114.799, -74.9345, 19.0756> V2: <115.793, -74.9345, 19.0756>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <115.793, -74.9345, 19.0756> V1: <115.793, -77.4306, 19.0756> V2: <114.799, -77.4306, 19.0756>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <114.799, -77.4306, 19.1049> V1: <115.793, -74.9345, 19.1049> V2: <115.793, -77.4306, 19.1049>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <115.793, -74.9345, 19.1049> V1: <114.799, -77.4306, 19.1049> V2: <114.799, -74.9345, 19.1049>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <116.95, -86.994, 19.9555> V1: <115.955, -86.994, 19.9555> V2: <115.955, -84.4979, 19.9555>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <115.955, -84.4979, 19.9555> V1: <116.95, -84.4979, 19.9555> V2: <116.95, -86.994, 19.9555>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <116.95, -86.994, 19.9847> V1: <115.955, -84.4979, 19.9847> V2: <116.95, -84.4979, 19.9847>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <115.955, -84.4979, 19.9847> V1: <116.95, -86.994, 19.9847> V2: <115.955, -86.994, 19.9847>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <28.0727, 140.462, 19.9555> V1: <29.0673, 140.462, 19.9555> V2: <29.0673, 137.966, 19.9555>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <29.0673, 137.966, 19.9555> V1: <28.0727, 137.966, 19.9555> V2: <28.0727, 140.462, 19.9555>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <24.4038, 140.462, 19.9555> V1: <25.3984, 140.462, 19.9555> V2: <25.3984, 137.966, 19.9555>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <25.3984, 137.966, 19.9555> V1: <24.4038, 137.966, 19.9555> V2: <24.4038, 140.462, 19.9555>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <28.0727, 140.462, 19.9847> V1: <29.0673, 137.966, 19.9847> V2: <28.0727, 137.966, 19.9847>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <29.0673, 137.966, 19.9847> V1: <28.0727, 140.462, 19.9847> V2: <29.0673, 140.462, 19.9847>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <24.4038, 140.462, 19.9847> V1: <25.3984, 137.966, 19.9847> V2: <24.4038, 137.966, 19.9847>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <25.3984, 137.966, 19.9847> V1: <24.4038, 140.462, 19.9847> V2: <25.3984, 140.462, 19.9847>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <25.8399, 131.433, 19.0756> V1: <25.8399, 128.937, 19.0756> V2: <24.8453, 128.937, 19.0756>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <24.8453, 128.937, 19.0756> V1: <24.8453, 131.433, 19.0756> V2: <25.8399, 131.433, 19.0756>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <22.171, 131.433, 19.0756> V1: <22.171, 128.937, 19.0756> V2: <21.1764, 128.937, 19.0756>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <21.1764, 128.937, 19.0756> V1: <21.1764, 131.433, 19.0756> V2: <22.171, 131.433, 19.0756>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <25.8399, 131.433, 19.1049> V1: <24.8453, 128.937, 19.1049> V2: <24.8453, 131.433, 19.1049>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <24.8453, 128.937, 19.1049> V1: <25.8399, 131.433, 19.1049> V2: <25.8399, 128.937, 19.1049>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <22.171, 131.433, 19.1049> V1: <21.1764, 128.937, 19.1049> V2: <21.1764, 131.433, 19.1049>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <21.1764, 128.937, 19.1049> V1: <22.171, 131.433, 19.1049> V2: <22.171, 128.937, 19.1049>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <16.261, 135.657, 20.2978> V1: <13.765, 135.657, 20.2978> V2: <13.765, 136.651, 20.2978>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <13.765, 136.651, 20.2978> V1: <16.261, 136.651, 20.2978> V2: <16.261, 135.657, 20.2978>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <16.2611, 131.988, 20.2978> V1: <13.765, 131.988, 20.2978> V2: <13.765, 132.982, 20.2978>

[OSO]

Your floor is messed up. The export first model has nothing to do with it.

Did you use the boolean tool numerous times to cut holes in the ground mesh?

Here is what you got to do. Isolate your floor mesh and then create a helper point that is big enough to see.

Right click on the select + move button to bring up the type in transform dialog box.

Go down the list that IGOR produced for you and move the helper point to those coordinates. While you're at each set of coordinates spin the view around to locate the bad floor triangles. They are usually on the bottom of the mesh facing downwards. Go to polygon sub object mode and delete these bad floor triangles one by one.

Once you are done with this step, go to vertex sub object mode and select all the vertices in the floor mesh and click the weld button with a low threshold. This should clean up the mess that booleans cause.

Be prepared for a long tedious process. You can also check your export dialog.txt file for other problems before bringing it into IGOR.

[snared_gambit]

actors are not the only problem. if you have a script with 60 or more script blocks it will slow down the framerates for sure

←

[lexsis]

Oso, thanks, I'll back track and see what I did wrong. good thing I make a new version each time so it should be easy to see what i did wrong.

Question for everyone else, should I release a beta version for people to preview., would this be a problem. I would only want feedback as far as optimization, not changes and and stuff.

[deleyt]

I wouldn't release a beta-version publicly, simply because it will spoil the fun .

Try gathering a reasonably sized team, willing to help you out on playtesting. It usually gives you much better feedback and they are more devoted.

A good way is to announce it here and hand them the details over PM, email, ICQ or MSN. Then organise a get-together and spend some time testing together.

[KRP 56]

I agree with deleyt. Public beta's really take away from the wow factor of a map mod.

[sleeper]

Quite frankly, if I download a beta like this and it's not even close to being what I consider "up to standard", I lose complete interest and won't download the final version or even other mods that contain it. You should just offer it up to a few people who express interest to help you test it for optimization. You stated that you weren't interested in making any changes so the opinions of the public are only going to frustrate your work. Map making is frustrating enough without every Tom, Dick, and Harry's opinions.

[lexsis]

thanks for the feedback gents, I appreciate your thoughts.

[The_Slink]

Looks good.

I don't mind quite a bit of foliage but if there were a number rocks around, then my skin would last longer.

Have you thought of a set border location or is this in the unkown area where you don't know where you are?

[lexsis]

while Im building and testing this map, Im calling the location Iraq-Syria border.

my idea was to make this a location where terrorists are crossing into Iraq onto Fallujah and other trouble spots in Iraq from the border with Syria.

I set up a village and some tent encampments along with other things so mission scripting should offer many options. plus people will make their own mission objectives and storyline.

I made a quick gallery on my site http://www.lexsis.net that has some images of the map and the new characters. as I progress I will post more and more pictures. when this current map is done, I have another and maybe, just maybe a 3rd. I want to get this about before GR2 comes out and all the fools abandon GR1 as if its dead or something but its far from dead in my opinion.

[BornToKill]

Ceilings tagged as a floors in room 1

This can cause problems with placing objects in this room with Igor.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <118.468, -77.4306, 19.0756> V1: <118.468, -74.9345, 19.0756> V2: <119.462, -74.9345, 19.0756>

Bad floor triangle: NORMAL: <0, 0, -1> V0: <119.462, -74.9345, 19.0756> V1: <119.462, -77.4306, 19.0756> V2: <118.468, -77.4306, 19.0756>

This error is caused by Vertices being weld on export that shouldn't be welded.

either adjust your Max units or Exporting units correctly or increase the distance on the Weld Vertices option of the Exporter.

Because your units are incorrect the Weld Vertices option is welding vertices together on export because your Max units may be centimeters and your exporting in meters or vice versa.

[San]

Nice website, Lexsis.

The first house in the pics (3rd pic?) seems to have no roof, I know there are some very primitive houses there, but just a line in the texture that will represent the edge of the roof (like wood) will make it a little better in my opinion.

[Sixpence]

BTW: Where can i find this Characters ? Looking good !

[Stalker]

cool website lexsis!!