in game observation

[Papa6]

This game has no qualities of a tac-sim and I have some proof of this fact.

Just got off of a server and AOD were all over the place. they got really ###### about the last game and decided to over look the north spawn on timber I think his name was AOD KC8KCT or something like that along with the others who sat over looking the spawn and raping the hell our out of us.

All I can say to this is, don't get ###### at all of us since some of us respect spawns. so no need to act like a child and feel like everyone owes you.

next, tactical sims account for stability of shooting whether standing or sitting or prone. prone being the most stable of course. But I've seen game after game of guys just standing there and doing the left to right waltz and hitting everything they see. so that's the proof, unequivocal truth.

GR1 had accuracy tables setup for standing(less accurate) and prone more accurate. each .gun file had numbers based on this fact and the reticle twips closure as well. that's what's missing. I guess the kids REALLY need help considering that we old farts are slower than molasses anyway.

so I think in my mind I've realised what's missing in realism of GRAW2. But as far as I know it's too late to invoke this after the fact as the game code is done.

Edited October 4, 2007 by Papa6

[Novelty]

ArmA.

[MVTalon]

A life......................

[Slow]

ArmA.

What he said..............

Slow

[ita_killabees]

and keep an eye on flashpoint 2 too ehehe!

[ROCO*AFZ*]

1st rule on a public server. Clear everyone out of your spawn and work your way to the enemies.

[Halli~SPARTA~]

In response to KC8KCT, He has always played fair when I was an Admin for the BDA. He is an agressive player but that is because he is so good, inturn players that good do get bored and push spawn so next time just ask him or them to give ya'll a chance.

[ruggbutt]

I've never been camped in a no respawn server.

[Peace]

GR1 had accuracy tables setup for standing(less accurate) and prone more accurate. each .gun file had numbers based on this fact and the reticle twips closure as well. that's what's missing.

Even if I don't care much about the whining about being spawn raped, Papa6 makes a critical point about accuracy in the GRAW series compared with [GR]. This feature shifts gameplay to the more fast "arcady" direction, which many players experience as regress...

Let me try to explain (because there is a a lot of players these days that never played [GR]):

In [GR] you had increasing accuracy and faster "reticule closure" times in roughly the following order, from worst to best (to the best of my recollection):

Running (bullets went anywhere in your general direction, basically you couldn't hit anything )

Walking forwards and strafing sideways (hard to hit small distant targets)

Sneaking slowly forwards (yes you could do that silently in [GR]!)

Standing stationary

Crouched stationary (imo most commonly used firing position in [GR] MP)

Prone stationary (the best accuracy and the fastest reticule closure times)

(Peaking did not affect the reticule and there was all sorts of intermediates, but this is more a general outline as I recall it)

An [GR] player had to judge each situation quickly and decide what was the best, e.g. if caught in the open:

Spend time to go crouched or prone to make your own body harder to hit, get faster reticule closure each round, and overall better accuracy

or

to stay upright with a larger surface to hit, slower reticule and worse accuracy, but being able to quickly squeeze of a reasonable accurate first round .

In the GRAW series it is virtually always the best strafer and that wins "open duels" if the players have otherwise equal player skills and specs of their gaming rigs. It is usually pointless in trying to spend time to go crouched or prone and become a stationary target and easy prey. The accuracy seems totally unaffected by the movement & stance.

This made the gameplay in [GR] unique and very much missed.

Sure, GRAW 2 has its qualities, but there is a shift in the gameplay features, damage model, options, flexibility, and server functionality maps from [GR] that greatly deviated from what many expected, and maybe never will see in a game again? Please all devs do consider to reinsert some qualities of [GR] in the next tactical shooter. Pretty please with sugar on top

[Lightspeed]

I've never been camped in a no respawn server.

good point - if al y'all want a real tacsim then TURN THE RESPAWNS OFF!!!!!!

that's about as real as it gets - and you wont get spawn raped,

OR

if u want random spawns and dont want to be spawn raped USE TOTAL RANDOM RESPAWNS.

2 good options - but guess what, everyone flocks to the same old servers to play the same old gametypes and then wonder why they get spawn raped.

[ruggbutt]

I disagree w/you on the accuracy thing Peace. In a strafe in [GR] you can hit first shot at the same distances as you can in GRAW2. Take the longest street in Vilnius. If you're standing still or walk-strafing you can hit your target first shot every time. In a walk-strafe the rets open a little bit but the gun is as accurate as it is if you're standing still. The only guns that you couldn't walk-strafe with were sniper rifles.

Good point Lighty. We had some XE guys in our server last night and they commented that they couldn't understand why people didn't d/l new maps and preferred to play the stock maps. Both you and Vhladd added the single player maps (which GRIN should have done in the first place) and people are satisfied w/8 maps. Doesn't make sense to me. Especially when part of this community is playing 19 maps.

[Peace]

Rug, I may not have recalled every detail correctly. Not sure though if the aim was really dead on despite "semi-open" ret in [GR] when strafing or walking? Definitely not the second, third etc shot . Haven't played the game since very long, haven't even got it installed anymore.

And yea, no respawns is great. Had good games on the BPR server (UK) yesterday

[IrishStout]

I can honestly say.. that both the Random Respawn and added maps where a blessing im eyes. But like you all experieinced.. our servers went from full every night to ghost towns??

Funny, you get the majority of people in GRAW and GRAW2 screaming for Random Respawns.. they get .. but they don't get it... get it?

I completely understand the DL process is non-existent in GRAW2.. but surly I hope people can DL a file and move or copy the file to a specified location.. That's computer 101.

But if not and people need help with DL and copying files let me know.. I will help out if required..

[Peace]

I can honestly say.. that both the Random Respawn and added maps where a blessing im eyes.

Imo the "total random insertions mod does not work out well (sry Lightspeed). I've tried, but I feel it is strange that you have to worry of your back all the time (due to players respawning everywhere). You can not work your way forward clearing out opponents in a "natural" way,

I don't feel it promotes teamplay either, as friendlies spawn all over the place (just as enemies). The team gets spread out and it becomes more of a solo deathmatch race.

To me the "blessing" may the [GR] first random insertion mod, with the following respawns (if now you want to play with a few of them) in the same zone as the initial one. It increases the variability of maps.

I'm not bothered by respawn kills, my own teams fault if it happens to me. Besides a few sec invuln. time after spawn should take care of the most obvious spawn campers. Nothing to cry about.

However, I agree that it is sad custom maps (even if from the SP campaign) do not get adopted, but that is always the case. (especially without the auto-download). Stock is always stock. Most players do not come to these forums.

[ruggbutt]

Vhladd released an 11 map pack using the Mayhem gametype. It's 4 random inserts. It has an installer. It works with Biro's Castle day (which is included in the installer). They're just maps so they won't mess with anything. If people would get off their behinds and d/l the installer it's a 2 click process.

[IrishStout]

Vhladd released an 11 map pack using the Mayhem gametype. It's 4 random inserts. It has an installer. It works with Biro's Castle day (which is included in the installer). They're just maps so they won't mess with anything. If people would get off their behinds and d/l the installer it's a 2 click process.

This is kind of the map pack I was talking about above with Random Spawn zones. Random spawn zones should remain the same. Ideally they work best with no respawns, but if there are respawns then I think they should stay the same. But I am one for spawn raping to some degree.. if you have been able to move and establish position as a group and entrap the other team, then I say job well done.

But personally, I am a no respawn type of guy when it comes to TDM. HH and Siege .. I like respawns.

[ruggbutt]

Random spawn zones should remain the same. Ideally they work best with no respawns, but if there are respawns then I think they should stay the same.

The inserts don't rotate for respawns. So if you spawn in to the close spawn on the left of the other team, you respawn there in respawn games. Some of the maps are huge and force people to play parts of the map that wouldn't normally be played. I'm not a huge respawn kinda guy, but the 4 zones are growing on me for those type of games.

Edited October 14, 2007 by ruggbutt

[Toniezz]

cmon, autodownload, VIOP (other thread)? Those are minor issues for GRAW. Did GR have autodownload? VIOP? No. Was it an success? Yes!

Did GR have a slow start? Yes! Did it take off? Yes! Why? Because the game had a lot of tactical shooter elements build in (ballistics, health system, tac map, etc.) at release. Did GRAW have these elements? Not by far! Does GRAW2 have these elements? Yes more than GRAW but still not by far what GR offered!

GRAW2 is a nice game but just isn't a tactical shooter. You can play it as a tactical shooter, sure, if you can get over some of the flaws (ballistics, tac map commands, kit restrictions, health system) and work together as a team over TS or Ventrilo. Therefore the game can still be fun but gameplay wise it is nothing alike it's big brother GR!

Toniezz.

Edited October 15, 2007 by Toniezz