[wish it had] Punkbuster

[Oap JTRipper]

how I wish that the game had punkbuster support

dont get me wrong I love the game but its just a bit wierd that people can shoot through all sorts of things - walls, bushes, etc

& we know that their is hacks already out

It would be nice to get that auto screenshot & md5 file checks that PB gives you

[sui317]

bushes would be obvious to shoot through i think and walls poles and fences can be penetrated bij the .50 cal

[{B:P:R}Joker]

bushes do offer som camo but only the bigger ones and they are few and far between.

as posted above the m99 sniper or the fixed guns can shoot through some walls and most fences.

if you play rvsa and get tagged then you are a lot easier to find and with the m99 you may not find many places to hide tbh

[Nutlink]

Either way, if a game like Rainbow Six Vegas or, even worse, Lockdown is given PB, why isn't GRAW 2?

[Lethal.Ambition]

We'll just have to make do with the screenshot mechanism. It's a good method. Sure, something like PB would have been nice, but admins that do their job is all you need.

[Oap JTRipper]

We'll just have to make do with the screenshot mechanism. It's a good method. Sure, something like PB would have been nice, but admins that do their job is all you need.

the only problem ive got with that is that admins would spend all the time issuing the screenshot command instead of playing

[FI_FlimFlam]

Exactly Ripper. There is no way to automate random SS's. You have to be suspicious of a player and then the admin must stop playing in order to attempt to capture ss's. Alt-TAB out and check, WHILE the player is still in the server. If he leaves you cannot ban him.

Next is the lack of logging. This isn't a problem if you only take one or 2 of the same player but if you start taking alot and you don't clear then out then you might have a hard time correlating them with a particular player. Addittionally, you have no way to issue a ban with them after the fact if the player isn't in the server. If they leave, you have to wait until they show their face again to ban them if the screen shot shows that they are cheating. You could attempt to ban the IP but we all know how useful that is with dynamic IP's from ISP's.

Then there is no md5 logging of the screenshot for verification purposes to help reduce the possibility of someone faking a screen shot of a player for framing purposes.....

Then all the screenshots are just dumped into the root GRAW2 directory with all the game executables. I have no idea why they didn't put them in their own directory. There are several reasons why that would have been a good idea from FTP, automated appllications, remote viewing, etc.

I'm glad they put it in, but it's most definitely not as well thought out on the usefulness factor as it should have been.

Edited July 24, 2007 by FI_FlimFlam

[Oap JTRipper]

Exactly Ripper. There is no way to automate random SS's. You have to be suspicious of a player and then the admin must stop playing in order to attempt to capture ss's. Alt-TAB out and check, WHILE the player is still in the server. If he leaves you cannot ban him.

Next is the lack of logging. This isn't a problem if you only take one or 2 of the same player but if you start taking alot and you don't clear then out then you might have a hard time correlating them with a particular player. Addittionally, you have no way to issue a ban with them after the fact if the player isn't in the server. If they leave, you have to wait until they show their face again to ban them if the screen shot shows that they are cheating. You could attempt to ban the IP but we all know how useful that is with dynamic IP's from ISP's.

Then there is no md5 logging of the screenshot for verification purposes to help reduce the possibility of someone faking a screen shot of a player for framing purposes.....

Then all the screenshots are just dumped into the root GRAW2 directory with all the game executables. I have no idea why they didn't put them in their own directory. There are several reasons why that would have been a good idea from FTP, automated appllications, remote viewing, etc.

I'm glad they put it in, but it's most definitely not as well thought out on the usefulness factor as it should have been.

automating the screenshots to be uploaded to a website is no problem, ive been running a bat file on our server for a few years now to auto ftp screenshots so the clan admins can check them

[FI_FlimFlam]

of course but for most people it would be easier if there were only screenshots in the folder you were pulling from. Not saying it's impossible, but depending on how you handle your view/checking of screenshots, having the screenshots in their own folder can be VERY helpful. Some auto FTP, some have remote http access for their admins for remote viewing, etc. Besides, it would just be ALOT cleaner for the SS's to land in their own directory when doing things such as clean ups or backups and no chance of deleting a game file that would be needed to run the server.

[Oap JTRipper]

I agree

[Bota:16]

I have always wondered that myself. Why the R6 games get PB but GR never does. Either way though I am glad GRIN has at least given us a screenshot feature. It is not perfect but it is helluva lot better than just the filechecker. Another thing I wish that was different is the deathcam. I wish the deathcam was what the player is seeing instead of the arbitrary first person camera view. For instance if the player scopes in, you see through their scope also or if he turns on nightvision you also see in nightvision. Also being able to see his reticule behavior would be a plus.

[Beaver]

how I wish that the game had punkbuster support

dont get me wrong I love the game but its just a bit wierd that people can shoot through all sorts of things - walls, bushes, etc

& we know that their is hacks already out

It would be nice to get that auto screenshot & md5 file checks that PB gives you

You just being out played, not hacked against.

If you played GRAW1, you'd know that you can be shot through 'some' walls, fences with the larger caliber weapons, just as in real life.

[Papa6]

yeah, I think this guy..erm Bota:16 has a hack he uses against me lol j/k

[Bota:16]

[ruggbutt]

PB has always been "iffy". Replays are a better solution. Take that short vid clip I made of the guy speedhacking. I knew what it was from the start, but had I not taken footage ya'll would have attributed it to lag. There is nothing better for catching cheaters than replays.

Edited July 24, 2007 by ruggbutt

[Bota:16]

It's not that one thing is better than another thing, it's having multiple types of AC working together and PB incorporates most of them into one package along with greater admin functions. If PB and game developers could somehow find a way to implement replays along with everything else PB has, then you would have a mighty fine AC system.

Question about replays though: Do they show skin/wall hacks? aimbots? armor hacks? Reason I asks is because speed hacks are obvious and are probably the least hack I worry about. Replays alone aren't a surefire thing. Like I said having multiple AC checks together is what makes PB better than anything else.

[Oap JTRipper]

You just being out played, not hacked against.

well on your server maybe

If you played GRAW1, you'd know that you can be shot through 'some' walls, fences with the larger caliber weapons, just as in real life.

I did play GRAW1 but never seriously , but ive played many games that you can shoot through buildings

what i mean is that a player can be hiding not moving & someone comes up with a shot from nowhere

Edited July 24, 2007 by Oap JTRipper

[GHOST_Sup]

You just being out played, not hacked against.

well on your server maybe

If you played GRAW1, you'd know that you can be shot through 'some' walls, fences with the larger caliber weapons, just as in real life.

I did play GRAW1 but never seriously , but ive played many games that you can shoot through buildings

what i mean is that a player can be hiding not moving & someone comes up with a shot from nowhere

There are a few obvious bushes that I always shoot into just to make sure there isn't somebody in there.

[MorphingJar]

Punkbuster? Seriously? Punkbuster is absolutely terrible at catching hackers. It truly is. About the best punkbuster can do is catch changes to cvars andwhatnot. None of that. Theres also the punkbuster screenshots. This game already has those.

Bottom line is this. There are your known hacks, like MSX Security, and then your widely distrubuted and barely functional hacks. While punkbuster is extremely aware of hacks like MSX security, they will only go after the trashy hacks because they are easy to find. and easy to stop. since most of them rely on simple cvar changes.

punkbuster will never get rid of hackers who make their own custom hacks or get good ones. only the noob hackers who download them off of trashy sites.

Also, I'm not even going to BEGIN to rant on how bad their "Punkbuster Service" is a terrible and resource consuming piece of crap.

Edited July 24, 2007 by MorphingJar

[Oap JTRipper]

Punkbuster? Seriously? Punkbuster is absolutely terrible at catching hackers. It truly is. About the best punkbuster can do is catch changes to cvars andwhatnot. None of that. Theres also the punkbuster screenshots. This game already has those.

Bottom line is this. There are your known hacks, like MSX Security, and then your widely distrubuted and barely functional hacks. While punkbuster is extremely aware of hacks like MSX security, they will only go after the trashy hacks because they are easy to find. and easy to stop. since most of them rely on simple cvar changes.

punkbuster will never get rid of hackers who make their own custom hacks or get good ones. only the noob hackers who download them off of trashy sites.

Also, I'm not even going to BEGIN to rant on how bad their "Punkbuster Service" is a terrible and resource consuming piece of crap.

I know quite a few people who would disagree including me

I remember when COD came out & you thought hmm these guys are bloody good, then the patch for it came out with PB support & these guys got banned within a few minutes of joining servers

its not just hacks & cvars that pb gets, most of the bans are from screenshots submitted by streaming servers

while I agree that we have the screenshot facilty, it is open to abuse as someone said. PB screenies arnt as they get checked by a screenshot viewer to tell if they have been altered

[FI_FlimFlam]

LOL "PB's crap so don't use it". That's like saying since the lock on your front door can be picked or kicked in, you shouldn't use a lock.

It's busted thousands of cheaters and continues to catch new ones all the time. It doesn't catch all and won't. But it's leaps and bounds better than simple file checks and a SS function with no logging associated with it. Granted GRIN's AC IS more than that but who knows how much.

I would also like to ask the person who thinks pb isn't any good to offer another viable alternative that is better? And don't say VAC because it's tied to the source engine so it's not an option.

Edited July 24, 2007 by FI_FlimFlam

[ruggbutt]

PB is resource hungry, and it misses a whole bunch of stuff. It has also "busted" people who weren't cheating. Witness was "caught" cheating and ran thru the wringer by the GR community for a hack caught w/the MD5 tool that was released as a beta. It took the head guy from PB to publicly announce that Witness wasn't cheating to clear his name. But it was too late, Wit decided to leave the GR community for good and everything he did for [GR] left a bad taste in his mouth. The only reason that Tony (from PB) took a look at his situation was because of who he was. If it had been you or I we'd have been branded a cheater forever.

No, PB still hasn't gotten over the stigma of busting innocent people and you have to put your faith 100% in the software. How am I supposed to do that when the head guy from PB said his software was wrong? No, replays are better for server admins to peruse to see if someone is hacking. Replays coupled with the screenshot capability we already have would cover the gamut of aimbot to speedhack to SIFF.

A while back I posted a movie of how almost every ladder used to catch cheaters in [GR] using a "tool" I developed, and replays. Even someone who was a total n00b to replay watching could see if cheating was involved. Now that we can request screenies we can see what the client sees and that's all that's needed.

Edited July 24, 2007 by ruggbutt

[FI_FlimFlam]

I don't discount false positives. But it's just as easy if not easier to fake screenshots without verification steps and I guess nobody's ever been busted by admins looking at replays "thinking" they were cheating when they weren't. Your system is just as open if not more so for abuse than any other. I'm not saying it doesn't work, but I'd bet that since you're essentially taking your best guess (educated as it is) that the potential for mistakes is greater.

I'm not saying replays aren't good. Only that they are far from perfect just like PB and plenty of them have been mis-read in the past. And people have had their names and reputations drug through the dirt just like Witness did.

[ruggbutt]

By far the biggest hack in GR was retlock or forms of it. There is almost no confusion when using my tools on whether retlock was/is being used in the replay, that's what was so good about the tool. A novice could see what was going on. The GR engine would account for every round fired and that showed up in replays. If someone was retlocking in the server, it showed up in replays. It got to the point where we could tell just by playing against the guy if he was using retlock, stuff like firing and hitting on the run for instance.

Granted, that doesn't (or shouldn't) happen with GRAW2 because the gun is down when running.

[bulgy]

Punkbuster? Seriously? Punkbuster is absolutely terrible at catching hackers. It truly is. About the best punkbuster can do is catch changes to cvars andwhatnot. None of that. Theres also the punkbuster screenshots. This game already has those.

Bottom line is this. There are your known hacks, like MSX Security, and then your widely distrubuted and barely functional hacks. While punkbuster is extremely aware of hacks like MSX security, they will only go after the trashy hacks because they are easy to find. and easy to stop. since most of them rely on simple cvar changes.

punkbuster will never get rid of hackers who make their own custom hacks or get good ones. only the noob hackers who download them off of trashy sites.

Also, I'm not even going to BEGIN to rant on how bad their "Punkbuster Service" is a terrible and resource consuming piece of crap.

and how did you come up with this? i know you went to the cheat site and you read it on there site.

If you believe what you read on some of the cheat sites then you have to a right muppet, We are talking about about people who cheat at a computer game so how truthful do you think they are. we are talking about the same peopel who stick CD Key stealer trojan inside hacks

MSX warns it members not to play on servers which are streaming to PsB as we are busting so many of them

And as for the people out there bitching about PB come up with something which is better then PB ? you cant as there is nothing out there which is as good as PB.