Read this thread on UBI forum!

[Cangaroo.TNT]

They're called "trolls." They are, for some reason, sad, bitter losers that have nothing better to do than make empty, pointless posts in forums for games that they:

1. Don't own,

2. Don't plan on buying,

or 3. Don't play.

Or they're good samaritans looking out for the public's best interest. Yeah, it's probably that.

Edited April 20, 2007 by Cangaroo[TNT]

[Hockeystick]

How come 90% of all the people in that forum is saying they wont buy another UBI game still hangs around in there. And most of all, keep posting in the threads?

I will answer that for u m8, its to warn people from buying ubisoft games and wasting there money.

It may not affect the people who come here because they tend to be fans of the graw series and are aware of the problems that they will undoubtadly encounter 3 months down the line when you guys at grin drop support for this game to start work on graw 3.

Whilst your here ; ) does the game have sads?

I don't think it's right to "warn" people not to buy a game they haven't even tried yet.

Edited April 20, 2007 by Hockeystick

[Snuffy]

A few questions for you then.

1. How many people still play graw online

2. How long after the game was released was it dropped for graw 2

3. Was the game released in a good state

4. Did the game ever get fully fixed

3. Does it have sads

4. Does it have anticheat

5. Did they try to kid us that the patches were indeed map packs

5. Would you say that graw is a popular mp game

So after answering those questions are you still looking forward to graw 2 if so ask yourself this

1. Will graw 2 have sads

2. Will it work out of the box

3. Will the patches actually fix anything

4 Will it have anticheat

5. Will what you have been promised actually materialise

6. Can UBI be trusted not to drop support of this game prematurely

I know what I think the answers to these questions will be.

Hence the pathetic trolling a you put it. As for the reason why I 'troll', its because UBI has stolen my money on the last 2 games that I bought, and I dont want to see other people make the same mistakes as me

Edited April 20, 2007 by Snuffy

[Cangaroo.TNT]

A few questions for you then.

1. How many people still play graw online

2. How long after the game was released was it dropped for graw 2

3. Was the game released in a good state

4. Did the game ever get fully fixed

3. Does it have sads

4. Does it have anticheat

5. Did they try to kid us that the patches were indeed map packs

5. Would you say that graw is a popular mp game

So after answering those questions are you still looking forward to graw 2 if so ask yourself this

1. Will graw 2 have sads

2. Will it work out of the box

3. Will the patches actually fix anything

4 Will it have anticheat

5. Will what you have been promised actually materialise

6. Can UBI be trusted not to drop support of this game prematurely

I.don't.owe.you.any.explainations.and.I.certainly.don't.have.to.answer.to.you.

As for the reason why I 'troll'....

I never called you a troll. I didn't even refer to you. It's odd that you would apply my comments to yourself.

...its because UBI has stolen my money on the last 2 games that I bought, and I dont want to see other people make the same mistakes as me

Just because you feel cheated, doen't make it so. Even so, get over yourself. Your opinion isn't so important that anyone here would listen.

[Snuffy]

Quack Quack

[Hockeystick]

1. Will graw 2 have sads

2. Will it work out of the box

3. Will the patches actually fix anything

4 Will it have anticheat

5. Will what you have been promised actually materialise

6. Can UBI be trusted not to drop support of this game prematurely

We'll see when the game is released. No point to "warn" anyone.

To build a house you need a strong foundation. GRAW 2 is built on the same engine as GRAW and it got all the animations from GRAW so I would say GRAW2 has a pretty strong foundation.

Wasn't The return of the King better than The two Towers?

[Snuffy]

So do you feel confident that the answer will be yes to any of my graw2 questions?

[Hockeystick]

So do you feel confident that the answer will be yes to any of my graw2 questions?

Yes

[spm1138]

The state of that forum is entirely Ubisoft's fault.

They did it to themselves.

Ubi's handling of PC Lockdown, GR2 and then R6V has been a series of grotesque cluster######.

They inveigled, obfuscated and deceived.

They generally acted more like a third-rate budget publisher than an allegedly first rate publishing house. Really. They've been making EA look good of late.

So... given that internet forums tend to attract opinionated blowhard fanboys and given that they've spent the last couple of years antagonising said fanboys (really. Some of the stunts they have pulled have been so bad I've been left wondering if it's intentionally)... well, it's understandable in my opinion.

Yeah, I think some of those guys should probably get out more.

No, I don't think what they're saying is neccesarily wrong.

Edited April 20, 2007 by spm1138

[Snuffy]

Yeah, I think some of those guys should probably get out more.

No, I don't think what they're saying is neccesarily wrong.

Well Im middle aged and married so I definately fall into that category.

[Valhalla]

hmm Snuffy, seems they let anyone spam this forum, i have seem you in multi area of this 'GR Forum' saying the same stuff... if you dispise the creators and dislike the games released so much.... why are you here.... your just showing the rest of us that your the type of person that ;Sees a sign saying 'If you dont like this sign please leave a reply' and so you do...

I agree with Cangaroo..... sing it on the mountain Snuff, your just showing every1 in a forum for games you dont like and 'we' do, that your a couple of cans short of a six pack

[Nutlink]

A few questions for you then.

1. How many people still play graw online

2. How long after the game was released was it dropped for graw 2

3. Was the game released in a good state

4. Did the game ever get fully fixed

3. Does it have sads

4. Does it have anticheat

5. Did they try to kid us that the patches were indeed map packs

5. Would you say that graw is a popular mp game

So after answering those questions are you still looking forward to graw 2 if so ask yourself this

1. Will graw 2 have sads

2. Will it work out of the box

3. Will the patches actually fix anything

4 Will it have anticheat

5. Will what you have been promised actually materialise

6. Can UBI be trusted not to drop support of this game prematurely

I know what I think the answers to these questions will be.

Hence the pathetic trolling a you put it. As for the reason why I 'troll', its because UBI has stolen my money on the last 2 games that I bought, and I dont want to see other people make the same mistakes as me

For the first set.....

1. More than Vegas and enough to play a good game at almost any time of day. I can settle for that without a problem.

2. Not as quick as Lockdown, but the game was properly supported with additional content and patches for around 5 or 6 months...more than most games these days.

3. No, but then again the only games I've seen released in a good state were worked on for years, and even then they don't always work as intended (STALKER, Oblivion, and Neverwinter Nights 2 come to mind off the bat).

4. No game is ever fully fixed, but the game was definitely brought up to a MUCH more playable state than release with the addition of so many things I can't list them all here, but read Colins post about a quarter down the page.

5....er....3? Yes, the game does have SADS. You need access to a full copy of the game, but you don't need to have a CD/DVD in the drive, just copy the game files to the computer you want to use as a server. It may not be as good as most out there, but it works.

6.4ish Yes, the game does have an anti-cheat.

75er. No, I don't recall them trying to trick us into thinking that the patches were map packs. They WERE map packs. If a map pack cannot fix bugs without being called a patch, then Halo 2 on the XBox is guilty of the same thing, but people didn't complain about that to Bungie.

8.5. No, I wouldn't call GRAW a popular MP game, but then again I really don't care about popularity. I'd rather the game fill it's niche than have a slew of players like Counter-Strike. The last thing I want is the game to be dumbed down to draw in more people. Instead let those that are interested in the concept join in. I'm all for fresh meat and the like, but it's horrible when you get the ones who try to convert the series into something other than the niche it's trying to fill. Rainbow Six Raven Shield comes to mind with the CS players trying to get things changed. Quality over quantity.

Round 2......

1. While this has not been publicly addressed, I'd imagine they would be available considering the backlash that came up from GRAW 1 without them. Not to mention that GRAW 2 is run on the exact same engine and probably the same file structure, so I imagine creating SADS for GRAW 2 wouldn't be a problem if they build them off of GRAW 1.

2. It'll work but it's just a question of how well. This goes for ANY game. I'm willing to bet with how much was done with GRAW that GRAW 2 will have gotten rid of almost all of the GRAW 1 bugs in the engine while creating it's own.

3. The patches in GRAW 1 fixed a lot, so I don't see a reason why not. Reread Colins list if you need a friendly reminder of what was fixed/added in a 5 month period.

4. Considering GRAW 1 had a built in AC, I'm going to say yes.

5. I don't recall being promised anything in GRAW 2, just the little bits we've heard in articles and the speculation of posters. GRIN and Ubi have been rather quiet about the game so far, so we don't really know what to expect. If you can find anything that GRIN or Ubi have promised in GRAW 2, please let me know and I'll retract this part.

6. Ubi can't be trusted at all in my opinion, however the level of support that we received from GRIN during GRAW 1 was phenominal compared to most games. Very rarely do the devs come to a forum and help people map/mod/troubleshoot and ask for opinions on what should be changed. It's a $50 gamble, but I've spent more at a movie theater than that so it's not really a big risk as far as I'm concerned.

This isn't meant to be a flame or anything, just what I've personally experienced/noticed over the last year or so.

[Snuffy]

I actually think Grin are very good, and did have some good games in graw. Played some good matches against bpr and kforf but I have still come away from the game being disapponted.

My ranting is not against grin or the community, as I think that the mod and map makers actually saved graw from a quicker death. Its against Ubisoft who dont seem to want to give any of their new releases a chance of being sucessful and have no respect for their paying customers.

Anyhows rant over, I will quit the trolling here.

[Maineac]

hmm Snuffy, seems they let anyone spam this forum, i have seem you in multi area of this 'GR Forum' saying the same stuff... if you dispise the creators and dislike the games released so much.... why are you here.... your just showing the rest of us that your the type of person that ;Sees a sign saying 'If you dont like this sign please leave a reply' and so you do...

I agree with Cangaroo..... sing it on the mountain Snuff, your just showing every1 in a forum for games you dont like and 'we' do, that your a couple of cans short of a six pack

In defence of those who revisit these forums out of hope that the suggestions made in these forums will be used to create another Clancy title worthy of the success of [GR], the dissatisfaction of the game enthusiasts is, in my mind, pretty well justified. Grin is given a specific product to produce, which they do. UBI is more interested in creating subsequent title instead of creating a game that will operate well and fill the needs of the community. I suppose if they did a really good job of designing a game that worked right, and everyone liked....there goes future sales for a while. There have been many contributors to these forums with great ideas, and genuine resolution for the issues that plague the game. Those are rarely incorporated which leads the faithful to desperation. It is not a new phenomenon. For those who have continued to resolve the issues keeping this game from becoming another "run and gun" kids game, I salute you. For those who return here in false hope of seeing UBI create another highly tactical game with SADS that allow for reasonably priced GSP's , I admire your patience, and for those who finally take to saying it like it really is, I understand that you are trying to show UBI the vast number of fans that are frustrated by UBI and not GRIN. As for those who are just loyal to the title, and expect the best will come from patience and possitive posts, I think this is the wrong forum. Perhaps UBI's forum would be better because it is pretty obvious that they don't care what the fans think anyway. The ultimate success of this game will require the satisfaction of many different interests in the many variations of this game. Success will come from adressing it from many different angles so that someone will eventually get the point. So, everyone is playing a good part. Everyone hopes for the same result. Everyone pays for the game and deserves better than what they have since the demise of GR2. Thanks to all that continue to post and I hope, in the long run, that we are all successful!! Thanks for your time and patience with this thought. .......... Maineac

[scope]

The thing with GR:AW is that it had the chance to be an awesome game. The animations and AI (apart from the ghost AI) was awesome, enemy troops would try to flank etc. The thing that let it down was:

1: Too buggy on initial release, put a lot of old timers off. Although this is most likely from UBI themselves trying to rush a product out as always and not GRIN...Silent Hunter IV anyone?

2: MP aspect was complete S#$T! I know Tinker and a lot of people who are still playing [GR] MP would agree! This put off my clan from playing it completely.

3: Restricted movement, "get back to the battle" message was really annoying. Lacked the freedom to plan attacks like in [GR].

4: Ghost RECON - No matter how hard I try, you simply can NOT sneak about. You try to get passed some guys quietly and Brown just has to blat three tango's with a gazillion rounds from his SAW. Simple things like the voices too, "Ok quiet now we're gunna sneak past these guys"..."MOVE ACCOMPLISHED!"...*sigh* lol.

5: Linear aspect of campaign, too scripted for my liking.

6: Prone position was a bit crap, I never really used it because you usually clipped against something and looked up into the clouds.

Good things about GR:AW...

1: Great animations - the slide on the floor was great, plus the dust effect on your visor was just fantastic.

2: Graphics - I liked the graphics on GR:AW, although the lack of FSAA was a pain, it was still pretty nice.

3: Draw distance, I know there was a mod for this or something, but even so it was still really annoying.

However, before this turns into a 100% negative post about GR:AW, we saw from some awesome mods that the community can make something even as "broke" as GR:AW cool. Snowfella's M4 SOPMOD made me want to play the whole game all over again. Agent Smith's blood mod was pretty amazing too, headshots with the M99 really felt and looked PAINFUL lol ...weee SPLAT. The patches that were released were good and by 1.35 the game was pretty damned good if you could put up with the occasional mishap by the AI etc (the one where they go the long way round the city and get themselves killed ).

Personally I'm looking forward to GR:AW2, I trust GRIN and from what I've seen in the previews they've taken on board our criticisms from GR:AW1. To say I'm looking forward to it is an understatement after the let down that was ArmA.

Edited April 21, 2007 by ScOpE

[PONDLIFE]

Well said Scope, I couldnt agree more. To me GRAW was a near perfect game, and as said the only thing I still find annoying is the Ghost AI... well maybe more frustrated at them, than annoyed!

The animations and movement were spot on, as were the effects. After I got over the initial shock of the jaggies gameplay took over, now after a bit of a PC upgrade it allows me to play at max settings and higher screen resolution it looks and plays great But the Ghost AI

GRiN can only improve on GRAW with the sequel.

[spm1138]

5....er....3? Yes, the game does have SADS. You need access to a full copy of the game, but you don't need to have a CD/DVD in the drive, just copy the game files to the computer you want to use as a server. It may not be as good as most out there, but it works.

Fail.

If MP was a priority for me there's no way I'd buy GRAW2 before they had the SADS up as a free download.

Why?

Becuase I know from experience that a game which is even slightly more complicated to host than the normal is dramatically limiting it's potential number of hosts online.

Sorry. I know this issue is basically a dead horse but I don't think it's one you can just shrug off.

Edited April 21, 2007 by spm1138

[FI_FlimFlam]

Edited to remove flames.... Sorry.

Edited April 21, 2007 by FI_FlimFlam

[spm1138]

I didn't claim it wasn't SADS.

If MP was a priority for me there's no way I'd buy GRAW2 before they had the SADS up as a free download.

See?

If I want "the SADS" up as a free download then I am saying that there is a set of SADS files that are not up as a free download.

The process you described falls under the heading of

more complicated

btw.

People are lazy.

Welcome to The Human Race .

[Nutlink]

The point is is that they are SADS, which answers the initial question "Does GRAW have SADS?" The answer is yes, it does. And it's not hard to use. If you've ever looked at how to set up a GRAW server you'd see it's really not that complicated at all.

Edited April 21, 2007 by Nutlink

[spm1138]

That wasn't my initial question.

I was just replying since FlimFlam was apparently having a dig at me without actually reading my post.

[FI_FlimFlam]

You're right and I apologize. But I took the "fail" statement with your lack of public download as meaning that.

I've just gone round and round and round with people saying it's not a SADS if its not available for download on fileplanet or filefront. It always comes back to a convience for the people saying it's not. That is why I jumped the gun. Again I apologize.

But you are absolutely right, it would be nice for people to have a download of the files.

[spm1138]

Then I apologise for my slightly confrontational tone.

I also acknowledge that I could be totally wrong about this, but prior experience playing other games suggests that extra hassle / expense will limit the number of servers. Because people are lazy.

Fewer servers = worse MP experience. Worse MP experience = fewer players. And so on.

Taken to the extreme you then you get into this vicious circle of "Well, pretty much nobody plays this anyway so why are we paying all this money to the one place we could find that would run a dedicated box for us when we could be playing this other game that everywhere hosts and everyone plays?".

Doesn't seem very rosey.

I'm buying GRAW2 as a SP game, but that's essentially what I meant.

Edited April 21, 2007 by spm1138

[EricJ]

The thing with GR:AW is that it had the chance to be an awesome game. The animations and AI (apart from the ghost AI) was awesome, enemy troops would try to flank etc. The thing that let it down was:

1: Too buggy on initial release, put a lot of old timers off. Although this is most likely from UBI themselves trying to rush a product out as always and not GRIN...Silent Hunter IV anyone?

2: MP aspect was complete S#$T! I know Tinker and a lot of people who are still playing [GR] MP would agree! This put off my clan from playing it completely.

3: Restricted movement, "get back to the battle" message was really annoying. Lacked the freedom to plan attacks like in [GR].

4: Ghost RECON - No matter how hard I try, you simply can NOT sneak about. You try to get passed some guys quietly and Brown just has to blat three tango's with a gazillion rounds from his SAW. Simple things like the voices too, "Ok quiet now we're gunna sneak past these guys"..."MOVE ACCOMPLISHED!"...*sigh* lol.

5: Linear aspect of campaign, too scripted for my liking.

6: Prone position was a bit crap, I never really used it because you usually clipped against something and looked up into the clouds.

Good things about GR:AW...

1: Great animations - the slide on the floor was great, plus the dust effect on your visor was just fantastic.

2: Graphics - I liked the graphics on GR:AW, although the lack of FSAA was a pain, it was still pretty nice.

3: Draw distance, I know there was a mod for this or something, but even so it was still really annoying.

However, before this turns into a 100% negative post about GR:AW, we saw from some awesome mods that the community can make something even as "broke" as GR:AW cool. Snowfella's M4 SOPMOD made me want to play the whole game all over again. Agent Smith's blood mod was pretty amazing too, headshots with the M99 really felt and looked PAINFUL lol ...weee SPLAT. The patches that were released were good and by 1.35 the game was pretty damned good if you could put up with the occasional mishap by the AI etc (the one where they go the long way round the city and get themselves killed ).

Personally I'm looking forward to GR:AW2, I trust GRIN and from what I've seen in the previews they've taken on board our criticisms from GR:AW1. To say I'm looking forward to it is an understatement after the let down that was ArmA.

That's a good post, and I'll second that. Yeah I slander and complain, but I still put GRAW back on the HD and play it every once in a while. It's actually better than ArmA because I can have a good fun graphical time (okay, the trees have been an issue) but other than that, it's kinda still fun to play with, and the animations were better than ArmA anyways, and I don't need a Cray to run it either!

But I'll add:

7. Wasn't mod friendly. Sure I'm mainly a texture/tutorial person, but it's hard to get invloved when it feels like you're going on the Last Crusade to mod things.

And I'll remphasize 4. There is no way in hell they need that many rounds to down a tango. A controlled pair or double tap works alot faster. Maybe a suggestion? Force Selector Lever for the AI, so they can at least pump out twenty gazillion rounds on semi...

[maltgoblin]

How come 90% of all the people in that forum is saying they wont buy another UBI game still hangs around in there. And most of all, keep posting in the threads?

While that is a valid question (one that seems to defy answer since I, too, am here on this forum and feel some of the same things)... I think the bigger question is not why people continue complaining, but why they started complaining in the first place.

Not meaning to poke sticks at anyone, but to a segment of the [GR] fan base, GRAW was a disappointment as a supposed sequel to [GR]. I think most of us could at least agree that simple comment is true, whether you personally feel that way or not.

But for some reason this issue has caused a much strong emotional reaction than even I would have suspected. This goes beyond the issue of "company xxx ruined my favorite game"... it's now emotional... it's passionate... people take time out of their lives to CONTINUE bashing a game they've already stated they will never buy.

So why the strong reaction? Did [GR] have that strong a fanbase that this became personal? I personally feel betrayed by UBi, not GRiN, with GRAW... but I try to post constructively, and I hope that GRAW 2 is okay (I will wait for feedback this time before I buy it)... but I don't live, breath and eat anger toward the world about it.

(Okay, Ubi delaying it without a single public comment REALLY ###### me off, but hey, that's just a lack of respect for the customer).

I think Ubi might have hit a nerve that was far more sensitive than they realized. PC gamers already feel left out or betrayed when a game shop goes console... and then for some their beloved [GR] sequel turns into something they didn't want. I think it did become personal at that point... a personal attack of sorts against a sacred cow.

Enough psychobabble I suppose... but the sociological side of me watches this whole issue in rapt fascination...

-jk

Callsign SigmundFraud.

Very good post.. there are a lot of [GR] players who were ticked off when GRAW came out and are still ticked off.. but most don't post anymore as most have lost hope at getting a true Ghost Recon game. All the GRIN nuthuggers can continue to gather here to praise GRAW2 and be positive and that's fine. I guess I still had a little hope that GRAW2 would finally be an improvement and UBI would have learned from the feedback after GRAW was released but all they saw were the dollar signs and not what "most" people thought of the game. After reading the comments of Beta testers who actually played [GR] a lot, I am disheartened once again.

PS-- If people don't want most [GR] players to post here then don't question the passion they have for the game. Many played [GR] for years and feel royally screwed by people who wanted to change something that wasn't broken in the first place. They had a recipe for perfect success and they changed the recipe.

Edited April 22, 2007 by maltgoblin