An analogy of GRAW,UBI & Grin

[wombat50]

I have wondered about the parts that GRIN and UBI have played in producing GRAW.

I wouldn't venture a guess but I did find this sample contract between UBI and BAM of interest. Allot of legalize and I certainly wouldn't say the contract between GRIN and UBI is anything like it.

As for my patience, please don't speak for it.

Edited August 13, 2006 by wombat50

[intelfactor]

I don't see how UBi is fully to blame and GRiN being the victim. In the interview, it stated that UBi gave the greenlight to, and I quote, "Do whatever it takes" to make the game a satisfaction to gamers. GRiN had more than enough time to finish the game and to say they are listening to us by adding TDM and HH is pointless. Had it not been requested or not, the modes would have been added anyway because TDM has always had its place in online FPS. Want to really find out if GRiN is listening to us? Ask for more weapons and quick saves etc. If it were implemented, then there is your answer.

[zulater]

bad analogy

here's why

when buying a home you get to inspect the final product before you buy it. many features in graw (that are on the box) are still not present.

"1. Recieve images in realtime from squadmates, helicopters, and remote-operated drones" we see a wireframe not an image

"3. blow through walls, finish off tanks, and shoot around corners with..." need i say more

"Battle on dedicated servers in the explosive new 32-player..." hmmm dedi servers

if you have your house built you get to specify the floorplan, find your own contractor, and have it built to your liking. with ubi/graw/grin we get none of those. i don't get to say this is how i want graw and i want x to write it.

1. Yes, we do, in the form of a full image screen. (I do agree that it shouldn't be a wireframe though)

2. Where's 2?

3. Blowing thru walls = wooden fences and concrete with the sniper rifle (says nothing of explosives, just blowing), finish off tanks with with the Zeus, don't know about the shooting around corners with... part since I never heard of that for GRAW, and yes there are dedicated servers (just not STAND ALONE DEDICATED SERVER FILES).

Gotta love marketing....

Those are the numbers off the inside cover of the box not my points. If you had read your box you would see that there are false statements. a fence is not a wall.

[Nutlink]

A fence can be considered a wall in some cases, but even if you don't you still have up to 3 feet of concrete you can shoot throu. And looking at the packaging for the game, I don't see anything that isn't in the game.

-Ghost Recon's lethal one-shot, one-kill gameplay gets even more intense on PC with first-person action and more threats than on any other platform. (Most games advertise something along these lines, but most of it is true in here)

-Improved first-person view lets you see your body and equipment and maneuver in new ways like sliding, diving, and leaning. (Ok, we have all three of those obviously, so this is all true)

-Expanded tactical gameplay includes an enhanced map that lets you respond to unforeseen threats by changing orders at any time. (Tacmap, which you can give orders off of, so that's true)

-Battle on dedicated servers in the explosive new 32-player Domination mode, or coordinate tactics with the Cross-Com in the 4 player co-op campaign. (Again, all true because we do have dedicated server files, just not stand alone dedicated server files).

-Developed on a PC-specific engine with powerful physics, stunning graphics, and HDR lighting effects. (Again, all true)

I see no false advertising on the box, but if your box states something else, please take a picture of it, and if you find any false advertising on the web, please post a link. If any of this is true, then I will retract my statement and admit that there was false advertising.

Edited August 13, 2006 by Nutlink

[Ikillintel]

A fence can be considered a wall in some cases, but even if you don't you still have up to 3 feet of concrete you can shoot throu. And looking at the packaging for the game, I don't see anything that isn't in the game.

-Ghost Recon's lethal one-shot, one-kill gameplay gets even more intense on PC with first-person action and more threats than on any other platform. (Most games advertise something along these lines, but most of it is true in here)

-Improved first-person view lets you see your body and equipment and maneuver in new ways like sliding, diving, and leaning. (Ok, we have all three of those obviously, so this is all true)

-Expanded tactical gameplay includes an enhanced map that lets you respond to unforeseen threats by changing orders at any time. (Tacmap, which you can give orders off of, so that's true)

-Battle on dedicated servers in the explosive new 32-player Domination mode, or coordinate tactics with the Cross-Com in the 4 player co-op campaign. (Again, all true because we do have dedicated server files, just not stand alone dedicated server files).

-Developed on a PC-specific engine with powerful physics, stunning graphics, and HDR lighting effects. (Again, all true)

I see no false advertising on the box, but if your box states something else, please take a picture of it, and if you find any false advertising on the web, please post a link. If any of this is true, then I will retract my statement and admit that there was false advertising.

Take a look at this MULTIPLAYER Trailer video and watch it closely for the moves you cant do in MULTIPLAYER.

http://ghostrecon.com/us/ghostrecon3/videos.php?video=6

[Nutlink]

Doesn't hold, thats the 360 version, since it's on a different platform it doesn't count as false advertising.

Edited August 13, 2006 by Nutlink

[zulater]

from the inside cover of the box

"1. Recieve images in real time from squadmates, helicopters, and remote-operated drones for unprecedented awareness of the battlefield...3. Blow through walls, finish off tanks and shoot around corners with weaponry..."

we do not get images we get wireframes

we cannot "blow" yes we can shoot through walls but using a greande to "blow" through a wall does not happen

we cannot use a weapon to shoot around the corner we must present our body to enemy fire to shoot around a corner.

[Nutlink]

I threw out that cardboard piece around the real package, so if you would be so kind as to post a screenshot I would appreciate it.

Edited August 13, 2006 by Nutlink

[RAbbi_74]

Can't believe I sat on the bus on my way to work and thought this all up.

-Papa6

Welcome to my world, dude. Scary part is I don't take the bus, I drive...

[zulater]

I threw out that cardboard piece around the real package, so if you would be so kind as to post a screenshot I would appreciate it.

[Nutlink]

Yes, we CAN get real-time imaging from the drones or squadmates. On your HUD it shows up as a wireframe, but if you press a certain button (I have mine set to G, not sure what default is anymore), it goes full screen real-time thru the camera on the soldiers helmet. A blow can also be defined by "an impact" so in that regard yes, we can blow thru concrete walls. You can shoot around corners, just lean around the corner. I don't think most people would like a weapon that could fire around corners without exposing themselves. It's not false advertising, it's a play on words. I'm not saying I agree with it, because the wording is really misleading, but it still isn't false advertising.

[RAbbi_74]

We get real-time video from helicopters! Remember the traitor, Bud? Dunno about y'all, but I really started getting sick of his $.02 every five seconds throughout the game. Kinda wish Ontiveros woulda finished him sooner...

MISLEADING? Indeed. Dishonest? Arguably. Stright-up WRONG? No, not really.

Only as wrong as calling those pics (god job, BTW) screenshots. Unless your packaging shows-up on screen (I'd tell GRiN about that SOONEST), those are simple PICs. Playing word games with UBISOFT?! Never...

What was the topic again?

[zulater]

Yes, we CAN get real-time imaging from the drones or squadmates. On your HUD it shows up as a wireframe, but if you press a certain button (I have mine set to G, not sure what default is anymore), it goes full screen real-time thru the camera on the soldiers helmet. A blow can also be defined by "an impact" so in that regard yes, we can blow thru concrete walls. You can shoot around corners, just lean around the corner. I don't think most people would like a weapon that could fire around corners without exposing themselves. It's not false advertising, it's a play on words. I'm not saying I agree with it, because the wording is really misleading, but it still isn't false advertising.

BS

this is clearly what they are referring to for a cross com image.

also in the 360 version you can shoot around a corner and over a wall without sticking your head around the corner. This is clearly what they were meaning. (see prince)

[REDMONSTER]

zulater

plain and simple thats the 360 verson not the pc verson. rember how much biotching there was about the posibilty of the shoot aroudn a coronor without exposing yourself gun was going around? thats way it isnt in the pc ghame. should they have taken those words off? yes but they did it the cheap way and used the samething for the sxsboxc verson i bet

[Papa6]

I don't see how UBi is fully to blame and GRiN being the victim. In the interview, it stated that UBi gave the greenlight to, and I quote, "Do whatever it takes" to make the game a satisfaction to gamers. GRiN had more than enough time to finish the game and to say they are listening to us by adding TDM and HH is pointless. Had it not been requested or not, the modes would have been added anyway because TDM has always had its place in online FPS. Want to really find out if GRiN is listening to us? Ask for more weapons and quick saves etc. If it were implemented, then there is your answer.

This game is about finished and like it or not, this has been alot like a school girl bone tease

Edited August 14, 2006 by Papa6

[RAbbi_74]

... this has been alot like a school girl bone tease

Does that mean it's almost prom night? Cuz I had some GOOOOODDDDDDDDD prom nights...

[Papa6]

... this has been alot like a school girl bone tease

Does that mean it's almost prom night? Cuz I had some GOOOOODDDDDDDDD prom nights...

Geez, how many proms?

[RAbbi_74]

Only three. That second one was a wild night, though. Stacey Yaider. Ahhhhhh................................

[zulater]

zulater

plain and simple thats the 360 verson not the pc verson. rember how much biotching there was about the posibilty of the shoot aroudn a coronor without exposing yourself gun was going around? thats way it isnt in the pc ghame. should they have taken those words off? yes but they did it the cheap way and used the samething for the sxsboxc verson i bet

I guess you are missing my point about this house concept being invalid.

if you read the box there are features presented that are not available in game. Had we been able to try out the game before buying it (like you can walk through a house before buying it) we could possibly had made a different decision.

Laziness is no excuse for false advertisement.

[th33f.]

about "blowing through walls", we do get to destroy 2 or 3 types of fences? that means the game engine is no stranger to an extra set of meshes for the destructible map objects... it's just that this feature would turn out to be very heavy on most people's current systems so it was minimalized. witha little guidance from GRIN, i bet it's possible to import a totally destructible building into GRAW.

Can't believe I sat on the bus on my way to work and thought this all up.

-Papa6

Welcome to my world, dude. Scary part is I don't take the bus, I drive...

now i know why Boropark is hell to drive through!

[RAbbi_74]

zulater

plain and simple thats the 360 verson not the pc verson. rember how much biotching there was about the posibilty of the shoot aroudn a coronor without exposing yourself gun was going around? thats way it isnt in the pc ghame. should they have taken those words off? yes but they did it the cheap way and used the samething for the sxsboxc verson i bet

I guess you are missing my point about this house concept being invalid.

if you read the box there are features presented that are not available in game. Had we been able to try out the game before buying it (like you can walk through a house before buying it) we could possibly had made a different decision.

Laziness is no excuse for false advertisement.

@zulater- we got a demo for free prior to the game itself. Sure the demo came literally DAYS before the game's release, but we got it. While it didn't cover all the bases, it DID cover the issues in question from the box. Anyone who buys this game without trying the demo first has no one to blame but themselves (unless, of course they have no internet access) when it turns out to fall short of their individual expectations. So we DID get to walk through the house, or at least the house's family room.

I tend to think zul's right, though. Let's try a CAR as a better analogy. Like GRAW, you get to test drive it (like the demo) before you buy it. And like GRAW, that test drive doesn't give you a complete picture of the car itself, just a feel for it. Long-term reliability, maintenance costs, fuel economy, blahblahblah. These are all risks the buyer assumes every time. And all the patches we've gotten are akin to TSB's and recalls. Like when the Ford Focus rolled-out in North America. The European version (read: XboX360) was largely applauded for initial quality. The car in N. America, however, was built in a different plant with parts from several different manufacturers (3 different suppliers just for the B-pillar trim, which turned into an evantual recall) and was subject to at least five different recalls in its first year on the market. It was still a great car, just took a while longer for the N. American crowd to get over the initial impression, whereas its European counterpart (I was in Europe when it was released there and in N. America when it was released here) was a hit from the beginning.

GRAW is to FPS video games what the Ford Focus was to compact cars. Therefore, GRiN is to video gaming what Ford is to international carmakers- #3 in the world. Not bad for a bunch of Danes...

[rossiski]

Gr:AW full o bugs------> ---------> by by......

Will never buy home from this new home builder (no experiece at all , no man power or resources ) "home builder builds bad reputation for itself" contractor save money , but start loosing some clients , but will look for new homebuilder ( more experince ) again , contractor not guilty , builder no experience to build fast and well done . contractor say BY by to homebuilder this make me loose money , mmm no good , NEXT PROYECT !!!

Cheers

Buh-bye.

bad analogy

here's why

when buying a home you get to inspect the final product before you buy it. many features in graw (that are on the box) are still not present.

"1. Recieve images in realtime from squadmates, helicopters, and remote-operated drones" we see a wireframe not an image

"3. blow through walls, finish off tanks, and shoot around corners with..." need i say more

"Battle on dedicated servers in the explosive new 32-player..." hmmm dedi servers

if you have your house built you get to specify the floorplan, find your own contractor, and have it built to your liking. with ubi/graw/grin we get none of those. i don't get to say this is how i want graw and i want x to write it.

The marketing material was designed to match the finished product/specs. This actually fills me with more hope because as the product isn't finished, those features will definitely need to be delivered, or that will be deceptive advertising.

I for one take no responsibility for the game being released unfinished and krap. To say that it is, we, the players fault is a bunch of BS.

UBI n GRIN we the ones who told us that GR3, or GRAW would be made for PC.

They also gave us the expected Release date for the game which was in 2005.

They chose to delay the release cos the game wasnt ready, not bcoz of xbox360 release, but bcoz the game wasnt anywhere near complete.

They lied to us that we would get a Demo in January 2006. It never came.

They misled the players that they were taking good care of MP, implied that we needn't worry. What a joke.

They told us they were taking care of business re: the AC. More BS.

Bo even came out and said to the disbelievers something along the lines of 'Dont buy the game if you dont want, you'll be missing out on the best game this year'. More BS.

Then they release a non-MP Demo...again...deceiving the players IMO. Damn good reason why the Demo wasnt MP.

Although players got impatient with the game delay, most ppl agreed that if the game was all it was supposed to be, then the wait would be worth it. We got the delay alright, and we still ended up with a fizzer.

They fed us more BS about the game being patched n ready by end of Summer. I dont think so.

But the biggest BS that comes after all of this are statements that suggest that it is the players fault for pushing for release, and its not GRINs fault at all. Credit where Credit is due, GRIN built GRAW, so GRIN is responsible. Not me, not the players.

Lighty, we know you're in pain. Try to breath deeply and relax.

Lastly, I like the all the analogies presented here. And I agree with Colin and others that say, "CHILL!!! It's coming."

[zulater]

zulater

plain and simple thats the 360 verson not the pc verson. rember how much biotching there was about the posibilty of the shoot aroudn a coronor without exposing yourself gun was going around? thats way it isnt in the pc ghame. should they have taken those words off? yes but they did it the cheap way and used the samething for the sxsboxc verson i bet

I guess you are missing my point about this house concept being invalid.

if you read the box there are features presented that are not available in game. Had we been able to try out the game before buying it (like you can walk through a house before buying it) we could possibly had made a different decision.

Laziness is no excuse for false advertisement.

@zulater- we got a demo for free prior to the game itself. Sure the demo came literally DAYS before the game's release, but we got it. While it didn't cover all the bases, it DID cover the issues in question from the box. Anyone who buys this game without trying the demo first has no one to blame but themselves (unless, of course they have no internet access) when it turns out to fall short of their individual expectations. So we DID get to walk through the house, or at least the house's family room.

sorry every demo that i have played has never had all the features of the finished product. sadly, with the exception of internet play, this one did. either way there are features on the box that are not present in the game.

to make the car example complete you would have to include features that you paid for (like power windows or tint or something) that were not on the car you were given when told you would get them.

[Papa6]

zulater

plain and simple thats the 360 verson not the pc verson. rember how much biotching there was about the posibilty of the shoot aroudn a coronor without exposing yourself gun was going around? thats way it isnt in the pc ghame. should they have taken those words off? yes but they did it the cheap way and used the samething for the sxsboxc verson i bet

I guess you are missing my point about this house concept being invalid.

if you read the box there are features presented that are not available in game. Had we been able to try out the game before buying it (like you can walk through a house before buying it) we could possibly had made a different decision.

Laziness is no excuse for false advertisement.

@zulater- we got a demo for free prior to the game itself. Sure the demo came literally DAYS before the game's release, but we got it. While it didn't cover all the bases, it DID cover the issues in question from the box. Anyone who buys this game without trying the demo first has no one to blame but themselves (unless, of course they have no internet access) when it turns out to fall short of their individual expectations. So we DID get to walk through the house, or at least the house's family room.

I tend to think zul's right, though. Let's try a CAR as a better analogy. Like GRAW, you get to test drive it (like the demo) before you buy it. And like GRAW, that test drive doesn't give you a complete picture of the car itself, just a feel for it. Long-term reliability, maintenance costs, fuel economy, blahblahblah. These are all risks the buyer assumes every time. And all the patches we've gotten are akin to TSB's and recalls. Like when the Ford Focus rolled-out in North America. The European version (read: XboX360) was largely applauded for initial quality. The car in N. America, however, was built in a different plant with parts from several different manufacturers (3 different suppliers just for the B-pillar trim, which turned into an evantual recall) and was subject to at least five different recalls in its first year on the market. It was still a great car, just took a while longer for the N. American crowd to get over the initial impression, whereas its European counterpart (I was in Europe when it was released there and in N. America when it was released here) was a hit from the beginning.

GRAW is to FPS video games what the Ford Focus was to compact cars. Therefore, GRiN is to video gaming what Ford is to international carmakers- #3 in the world. Not bad for a bunch of Danes...

I disgree disagree with your post for some simple reasons.

1) there was NO MP mode which is the brunt of the problem in most peoples minds. Face it, the DEMO didn't have MP gameplay so to say the demo was the ticket to say how the game would be, is about the craziest thin gi have EVER read on these boards.You have to offer enough of each part of a game to see whether we like it or not.

2) the demo was released just days before the game released...how the hell are we supposed to get a 360 degree perspective to know if we like/dislike the game...?

Don't urinate on my leg and tell me it's raining...

Edited August 14, 2006 by Papa6

[RAbbi_74]

Actually, the demo DID have MP. Get a buddy to come over with his computer and a patch cable, and BAM! You've got a LAN MP game in the works. It's raining.

Just because the game was released on a certian date didn't mean you had to buy it THAT VERY DAY OR ELSE THE UNIVERSE WOULD IMPLODE AND YOUR DESSERT WOULD TASTE LIKE STEAK! Sorry, dude, but if you weren't satisfied yet that you had played enough of the demo, then you had every right to wait another couple of days. If you didn't, it's by no means anyone else's fault. Seriously. It's pouring outside.

@zul- yer right. My bad. I'll never post on this thread again. (OK, that might be pushing it...) How about I go punch myself in the junk three times JUST FOR YOU?! Thought so.

And when old man Winter comes around, remember not to eat the yellow snow...

(I luv you guys. Get back on the Ritalin, will yas?)