Any of you guys seen this?

[ReconSnake]

I ran across this at the BHD93 website.

An Air Force Academy cadet was trying to extend an invitation to Poly-sci students at Saint Xavier Academy...

Here is his initial request:

Kirstein, Peter N.

Professor

Room: L347

Phone Ext: 3283

Email: kirstein@sxu.edu

Fax: 298-3314

Dear Sir or Ma’am

The Air Force Academy is going to be having our annual Academy Assembly. This is a forum for mainly but not only Political Science majors, discussing very important issues dealing with politics.

Right now we are in the planning stage for advertising and we would appreciate your help in the follow areas. Do you know of or have methods or ways for interschool advertising and or communications? What would be the best way for us to advertise at your school whether it is sending you the fliers and you making copies or by perhaps putting an advertisement in your local publication? We would appreciate your input and the cost of what your recommend. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Very Respectfully,

Cadet Robert Kurpiel

Response:

From: Peter Kirstein

Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 1:46 PM

To: Kurpiel Robert C4C CS26

Subject: Re: Academy Assembly

You are a disgrace to this country and I am furious you would even think I would support you and your aggressive baby-killing tactics of collateral damage. Help you recruit. Who, top guns to reign death and destruction upon nonwhite peoples throughout the world? Are you serious sir? Resign your commission and serve your country with honour....

You are worse than the snipers. You are imperialists who are turning the whole damn world against us. September 11 can be blamed in part for what you and your cohorts have done to Palestinians, the VC, the Serbs, a retreating army at Basra.

You are unworthy of my support.

Peter N. Kirstein

Professor of History

Saint Xavier University

Here is SXU's response to the uproar this piece of fecal matter "professor" caused:

Statement regarding Professor Peter N. Kirstein, Ph.D.

Richard A. Yanikoski, Ph.D.

President, Saint Xavier University

November 15, 2002

During recent weeks Saint Xavier University has attracted national attention because a tenured professor of history sent a young Air Force Academy cadet some e-mail containing inflammatory, anti-military comments. Professor Peter N. Kirstein, an avowed pacifist, quickly apologized to the cadet and to the Air Force Academy for his e-mail message, but in the meantime thousands of other interested parties have taken offense.

From the beginning of this incident, Saint Xavier University has worked to achieve four objectives: (1) to make things right with the cadet and the Air Force Academy; (2) to respond compassionately to the anger and anguish aroused in so many quarters; (3) to counsel and discipline Professor Kirstein in appropriate ways; and (4) to ensure that teaching and learning at the University will continue unimpeded.

The following actions have been or will be taken to make things right with the cadet and the Air Force Academy: (1) Professor Kirstein sent a personal apology to the cadet and to the Air Force Academy. Subsequent correspondence between them has been open and respectful. (2) The University extended an official apology to the Academy’s Superintendent, and as president of the University, I have agreed to accept an invitation to visit the Academy within the coming year. (3) Saint Xavier University will send a delegation to the Air Force Academy’s upcoming Academic Assembly. (4) Campus officials have attempted to respond to all cadets, parents, and members of the Academy staff who telephoned or wrote to the University. Any omissions in this regard have been unintentional.

To respond compassionately to the large number of men and women who somehow received copies of Professor Kirstein’s e-mail and thereby came to feel demeaned by his intemperate criticisms of the military, the University has done the following: (1) Faculty, staff and administrators throughout the University have fielded telephone calls during the past two weeks, in each case listening sensitively to complaints and advice. (2) We answered hundreds of e-mail messages personally, until the rising volume of correspondence made individual responses impossible. (3) We cooperated with the press in an ongoing effort to ensure accurate and responsible coverage. (4) We used web-page updates to summarize the University’s response to this emerging situation. (5) We consistently admitted that Professor Kirstein’s e-mail message was unwarranted and unbecoming a scholar.

By far the topic of greatest interest to most people has been the University’s response to Professor Kirstein. After careful deliberation, I have decided to take the following actions on behalf of the University:

Effective on the afternoon of November 11, 2002, Professor Kirstein was relieved of his teaching responsibilities for the current semester and reassigned to other duties.

An administrative reprimand will be delivered to Professor Kirstein and placed in his personnel file.

While on sabbatical leave during the spring semester of 2003, Professor Kirstein will submit his teaching, scholarship, professional development, and service record to peer evaluation within the norms of the University’s procedures for periodic review of tenured faculty. Professor Kirstein volunteered to have this review conducted earlier than it otherwise would have been.

Any future faculty contract(s) extended to Professor Kirstein will include a binding addendum specifically requiring him to adhere both to institutional policies and to the norms of the American Association of University Professors in matters relating to the proper exercise of academic freedom and extramural activities.

No additional information will be released by the University with respect to the above actions or other personnel matters concerning Professor Peter Kirstein. This is in accord with University practice.

Professor Kirstein and the University community deeply regret the incident that began this chain of events. Saint Xavier University remains committed to the pursuit of teaching and learning in a campus community where all are treated with respect, caring and justice and where academic freedom is enjoyed for purpose of promoting quality teaching, careful research, critical analysis, thoughtful discussion, and programs of direct service to metropolitan Chicago and beyond

The guy who posted this at BHD93 added this:

Check out his webpage: http://www.sxu.edu/~kirstein/ on the university server.

He has a link to a pretty interesting paper he wrote: "Terrorism from the Sky: The Destruction of Nagasaki,"

and dont miss out on this http://www.sxu.edu/~kirstein/New_Criterion.htm

[Piccolo]

Wow, the ravings of a madman, to say the least. I find it all equally disgusting. Of particular ironic value, I will highlight this passage:

Did the Vietnam antiwar movement--one of the defining events of the twentieth century--contribute to an accelerated ending of that immoral and monstrous war so additional precious Americans would not die in the jungles of Southeast Asia?

This is the most idiotic statement I have ever read. Infact, the VC only continued fighting, because of the American protestors. It gave them hope. If there would have not been any protestors, it is very arguably that the war would have ended two or three years earlier, and us as victors.

[stormcrow]

There's nothing quite like making sweeping statements, and random insults to get your ass in a sling. If you want to make a point at least do it with some tact and intelligence.Dear oh dear.................. what a ######.

[Viper]

well we are all entitled to our opinions, but it is hard to accept when ones opinions are based on such blatent misinterpretation of historical events - and this guy is a history prof?

I will not bash someone for thier opinion but the way in which he presented it was wholey unprofesional and downright offensive and rude ....... sad.

CLARK

[Gordo_Viper]

Wow, the ravings of a madman, to say the least

No argument there, unfortunately a common one. The protestors from the Vietnam war Era are right now in the postion of power within the "intellectual" fields- i.e. Heads of Uni's, Newspapers, TV Networks and so these people pollute the mids of thse below them who grew up in the Reagan and Bush Senior Era's (or Hawke and Keating Down here )- will be like this for awhile- typical of the type of person though.

Morons' who honestly believe all the propagnada the Muslim Fanatics, Iraqi's (take your Pick of Muslim Countries) dish out about the West. These people really believe we are at fault for Sept 11, Bali etc

So if we've persecuted the Muslim World (according to Fanatics)-

Why Did Kosovo Happen i.e. Kosovo Lib Army is a Muslim Rebel Army- NATO bombing Serbs- Orthodox- I always remind Muslims of this when they whinge about Americans and the West.

Also Sudan? Christain Sudanese being gased by Sudan Majority Muslim (Fanatical) Government using Iraqi Chemical Weapons being flown By Iraqi Air Force Pilots.

Also Liberia, Sierra Leone etc- Rebels funded by Libya etc do overthrow and institute Muslim (Fanatical) Control in N Africa.

In our region East Timor, Interfet, we (Aussies, Kiwi's, Brits, French, Phillipines, US, Irish, Portugese, Brazilians etc) liberated the ET's and The Muslim (Fanatical) world got Angry at Australia for it- Osama Bin Laden even mentioned this in his speeches. Particulary after Bali Bombings. Whe the ET's voted for independence and then the TNI dually euipped the Militia with modern Assault rifles and Frag Grenades and watched and sometimes participated in the killing and destruction. Koppasuss (Indon SF) where up to there eyeballs in it.

Piccolo right on mate- like Vietnam we are at war and the home front is where it counts- we don't have the support the military superioty we have doesn't mean squat.

We are too PC in the West now- we don't call a spade a spade anymore.

The current fundamentalist's can't be negotiated with and made to understand- the only thing they understand is a JDAM through there window- a hellfire on the bonnet of their RV or an SS109 round through the forehead.

Cheers Gordon

Edited September 4, 2003 by Gordo_Viper

[Pyro_Monty]

Gordo, be angry at the ###### professor - don't take your anger out on the world Muslim population.

[Gordo_Viper]

Gordo, be angry at the ###### professor - don't take your anger out on the world Muslim population

Good point- angry at the Muslim Fundamentalists not the general Muslim Population. Just to clear that up- read back through. I have Muslim friends, not meant to offend Muslims- just sick of some Elements in Muslim World.

Cheers Gordon

[Pyro_Monty]

Yeah, I can relate - I'm sick of most elements of most organised religion.

[connie lingus]

Gordo, be angry at the ###### professor - don't take your anger out on the world Muslim population

Good point- angry at the Muslim Fundamentalists not the general Muslim Population. Just to clear that up- read back through. I have Muslim friends, not meant to offend Muslims- just sick of some Elements in Muslim World.

Cheers Gordon

Greetings!

Do you realize that if only 10% of the Islamic world was supportive of radical movements like Al Qaeda, they would number at least 150 million?

That is a very conservative population estimate, and the 10% ratio is also very low.

Although I'm no fan of the gangsters running Serbia, I think our support of the muslim rebels was only an appeasement to middle eastern Arab countries and was wrong.

Many of these muslims just moved in from Albania and other places, and then demanded independance.

[Pyro_Monty]

Gordo, be angry at the ###### professor - don't take your anger out on the world Muslim population

Good point- angry at the Muslim Fundamentalists not the general Muslim Population. Just to clear that up- read back through. I have Muslim friends, not meant to offend Muslims- just sick of some Elements in Muslim World.

Cheers Gordon

Greetings!

Do you realize that if only 10% of the Islamic world was supportive of radical movements like Al Qaeda, they would number at least 150 million?

That is a very conservative population estimate, and the 10% ratio is also very low.

Sorry... but your point is...?

That doesn't make a reason to incite hatred and generalise against a nation-wide ethnic group whose only connection is that they believe in the same God.

Not that that's what Gordo was doing at all, I'm just giving my opinion.

[Ruin]

I think that Connie is getting at the fact that A LOT of Americans are blaming ALL Arabs for the deaths of 9/11 and now our soldiers, when infact the blame should go towards radicals NOT the Arabs (not fair to call them all Muslims, some are Christian and Jewish).

All in all I think the first letter sent by the professor is suck BS.

I meant to start a topic on this same idea last friday but forgot to.

I was at my school football game, sitting with some of my GF's friends, and the American National anthem came on (as played by the band). One girl in particular did not stand up, I'm not generally an out spoken person so I let this slide (like people woh deliberatley DON'T say the Pledge of Alliegance).

Finally she had the nerve to sya to me "You know, I don't see why people tell those who are anti-war 'at least support the troops.' That means we're supporting people who kill innocent people and are fighting this damned war"

Although I held back ALL of my emotion I said to her something like "We should support the troops, because they're the ones who are making sure you've got the right to say that."

All the meantime thinking "You idiot, you're clueless to reality." I don't claim to have experienced everything out there, but I have seen a lot, especially a lot of war-like things. I assure you, NO person on earth WANTS to be where the bombs are dropping, they can claim to but in their heart of hearts they don't really.

My point is that this anti-war and anti-troop BS is just that, BS. We as Americans should do our part to support our country's efforts no matter what.

[warhawk]

@RS

I saw this sometime ago and I was outraged then. If I remember correctly Professor ######hole lost his position at the university. Personally that isn't good enough for me. After that he should have been turned over to "Force Recon" for some "enlightenment"! No good long haired pot smoking hippy tree hugger!

Don't get me wrong cheesehead is entitled to his opinion. But opinion's are usually based on fact and should never been a personal attack.

Stout Hearts

Warhawk

[connie lingus]

Greetings!

@Pyro Monty

My point is that if only 10% of Islam believes in converting the entire world by force---that minority is huge! 150 million people is more than many countries. So when people say let's not castigate an entire religion, for but a few radicals, I wonder if they know how many a few really are?

We really don't know what percentage of Islam is militant, but if it's say 10%---where is the outrage from the 90% majority? Their silence to these atrocities are deafening.

[Ruin]

@Connie, you have to realize that Middle Eastern politics are a very different beast than American or UK politics.

Hizbullah holds NINE seats of Parlaiment in Lebanon (out of about 30). That however does not mean that 9 out of every 30 people in Lebanon believe in the same things as hizbullah.

You also have to understand that the Middle East is not nearly as rich as the West is. They have their high spots but illiteracy and education reigns high in the area. Not many of them see America in the same way. So saying 10% of Muslims want to convert by force is hard to do.

I'd say that only about .5% act on this. And that's the minority you're going after, NOT those who do more talking than walking.

[connie lingus]

Greetings!

@Ruin

OK, if your comfortable with only 5% of Islam, fine. That's still at the very least 75million people!

Take for example our "friends" in Saudi Arabia. While the government says peace, their TV stations stir up violence and teach their children to hate.

In Saudi a 10% figure would be way to small. The most popular name for newborns in Saudi? Usama.

[Ruin]

Actually I said .5%, and that's 7.5 Million.

I'm gonna have a hard time arguing with you Connie unless you've lived in the Middle East and have experienced (key word) their culture and beliefs.

I have, the Arabs are not hating people, they're possibly the most tolerant on this planet.

[connie lingus]

Greetings!

Actually I've visited places like Egypt, Saudi, Qatar, Bahrain, so I have some experience.

But if you really want an experience, you should have seen these fiends dancing in the streets of East Patterson, NJ after the WTC burned down!

[Ruin]

Sheer ignorance, just like the small group in Palestine. The people with moeny and power there were sobbinbg just as much as we were. We're all humans, and we're all civillians; and attack like that would make anyone cry inspite of race, religion or background.

[Parabellum]

Actually I said .5%, and that's 7.5 Million.

I'm gonna have a hard time arguing with you Connie unless you've lived in the Middle East and have experienced (key word) their culture and beliefs.

I have, the Arabs are not hating people, they're possibly the most tolerant on this planet.

1) You're a bit young to have a good grasp on what Arab culture is all about.

2) Your statement is just as much a generalization as Connie's. Whether or not Arab's are tolerant people is irrelevant; the Saudi government has certainly shown itself to be unwilling to be burdened with allowing people to practice religions other than Islam within their borders.

For all intents and purposes, I doubt that anyone on these forums has studied Islam more than I have, and this is what I think: By and large, the vast majority of Muslims simply 'go with the flow'. Just like any other 'religion', Islam has its traditional wing, its progressive wing, its fundamental wing (fundamentalism isn't a bad thing), and its extremist wing (extremism is bad). I dare say that the vast majority of Muslims with whom I've conversed don't really fall into any of those groups. Putting tags and stereotypical labels on Muslims is a very irrational and misguided action. While it's somewhat easy to discern what the Qu'ran teaches, it's much more difficult to establish wide trends among it's devotees.

[TheBlakeness (HotPants)]

Effective on the afternoon of November 11, 2002, Professor Kirstein was relieved of his teaching responsibilities for the current semester and reassigned to other duties

god...i hope they have this psycho cleaning the toilets now.

[TheBlakeness (HotPants)]

BTW...

im checking out this guys website..and it leaves me wondering. how does he treat his "patriotic" students??? I would NEVER enroll in a class with someone as "elitest" as this man is.

On a side note...Looking at his pic....and I really cant tell if he is looking at the camera or off in space.

[Parabellum]

BTW...

im checking out this guys website..and it leaves me wondering. how does he treat his "patriotic" students??? I would NEVER enroll in a class with someone as "elitest" as this man is.

On a side note...Looking at his pic....and I really cant tell if he is looking at the camera or off in space.

I don't know if it's just the photo, but the man looks awefully contemptuous and arrogant to me. Two qualities that have no business in the classroom or the lecture hall.

[TheBlakeness (HotPants)]

LOL..most college professors ARE contemptuous and arrogant

[Parabellum]

LOL..most college professors ARE contemptuous and arrogant

Aah... Too true.

[Dan]

Now I hate crap like this, It doesnt matter what political or moral bias this man holds, but you do not tell soldiers wat he said to that cadet. I have deep respect for anyone that serves their country. Without people like that cadet chaos would rule in this twisted world of ours.

And on a serious note, is it me or does that dude looked stoned of his head??