Tinker Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 This Topic is going beyond it`s questions! Notes 01: This mod is purely made for your enjoyment. Feel free to post issues. Notes 02: You DO NOT release a Mod, and take an award, and walk away. (If 1 was to be awarded, sry) Notes 03: Jay is willing to give any help needed, to fix these issues, and so am I. Notes 04: If it can be fixed, Tinker will find a way, and hope to resolve all these issues. Tinker Maybe a version 02 for lesser able PC`s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WytchDokta Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 (edited) The fact is, no matter you do, there will always be those who like what you've done, and those who don't. Life is like that. Even if a PC game gets 100% review rating by all major PC mags, there will still be people who disagree with the reviewers. That's what makes us what we are. At the end of the day, all feedback is good feedback - even if the feedback they left was actually bad - it shows that the [target] audience is downloading and playing the mod. They might spot bugs that no-one else notice for whatever reason, and report them to the mod devs, which the mod devs can set about to fix and further improve the experience of the [target] audience. I'm due to release more work for GR soon myself, and no doubt some people will pick fault with certain aspects of it where others will love every minute of it. I'm not bothered as to which one of those two types of people you want to be. I'm releasing that stuff for you guys and if some don't like it, that's their problem not mine. I'm me and you're you, that's all there is to it. If aspects of my work needs fixing after I release my work, I will fix it - in my own time. The reason for mod testing is to attempt to iron out all bugs, but in all seriousness, nobody is perfect. Hence, some bugs get missed. Like Jay said, he nor the dev team is obliged to provide tech support. Accept things for the way they are and get on with it, doing neither will only worsen the situation. All these modders out there are just trying to give you something new, experience their work as you wish. Jay, thanks once again for an awesome mod. I for one am more than happy with it. Together we stand, divided we fall. Edited March 4, 2007 by WytchDokta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregV Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Unfortunately , its "CENTBUG" to me more than "CENTCOM", CTDs in missions 2, 5 , 7, 8 and 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WytchDokta Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Like I said, each to his own; be what you gotta be, do what you need to do, say what you want to say. Let the modders do their job the rest of you do yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinker Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Unfortunately , its "CENTBUG" to me more than "CENTCOM", CTDs in missions 2, 5 , 7, 8 and 11. Pls report Mission 11 (My Mission) Bug, will be fixed in 24... Tinker Looking at all of Gregs posts, I hold not much hope in satisfying. Nice post, WD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giampi Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Support after sales? correct me if i am wrong but what sales do you speak of? Last time i checked none of us recieved any payment for this project. I'm sorry that 12 maps dozens of chrs and hundreds of weapons are not enough effort from our team. Giweda i havent seen your hand up in the air to help out the community with these issues, if it is so important that these issues be fixed and for me to put what little free time i have right now into this why havent you volunteered your assistance. maby then i will drop what i am doing and put aside my other priorities to serve the community if developing this mod in the first place wasnt enough. Thats all i have to say.................... Jay, I wrote "support after sales" , I believe this was enough to understand what I meant. Of course tte right way of saying would have been "support after release" but maybe you were too busy to understand it. There are people that like to post in the forum every single thing that happened in their life and that they believe the community wants to know. I'm not one of them and, while in the past few months, many facts happened in my life, I prefered not to advertise them as they are my personal issues (some silly, some much more important). This is to say that if I didn't help (or even mention) to solve any bug maybe I have my own reasons. Again read properly my post "But from what I could read in the forum it seems to me", I didn't attack anyone, just posted my opinion. As far as forum awards go they are not my focus, after three years of work a shiny pic in my sig isnt a big deal, the fact is i was not here to walk away with an award, but to release a project so i could move on to something else." Maybe I'm a bit old and my memory starts to fade away but I believe I remember every single nominations of yours was for Centcom @WD: here nobody is speaking if someone dislike the mod, we speak about support. If you noticed so many persons while posting their issue with CTD said in the same posthow much they liked Centcom and that they would like their experience with Centcom would improve, I believe this is something theCentcom team should be happy about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janie42 Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Some facts: Centcom does have bugs & CTDs for some people... People tend to dislike bugs & hate CTDs... GR.net is the definitive site for the GR series & its mod. It is completely okay for anyone to seek advice / help for any GR problem here & nowhere in the forum rules (or 'spirit' IMO) is it said, or suggested, that reporting bugs, asking for support or whether a patch is on the way, etc. is to be considered cause to be moderated (nor should the poster get flamed). It's also a fact that over the years nearly every large mod effort has received good support from its makers & also from other players/modders. @Jay316 Because the people that dl this mod are not paying customers we also arent obligated to spend our time fixing your mod problems, be happy with what you get for free on our time or play something else.Paying customers? Obligation? Nobody's suggesting "obligation." I think ppl just thought you'd want to support the mod, like other modders have done! For those that complain or claim that they would have done better, the day you invest your time and freely create a mod for gr that surpasses the size and quality of centcom I will congratulate you.Size is not automatically synonomous with quality... ...though it's said that many men become confused on this issue! About your repeated emphasis on Centcom's being "free"... ? All the many GR mods that have been released over the years have been free, and naturally everyone who has & who continues to make GR mods does so in his/her spare time & for free? With this project i think i have contributed as much or more to the gr1 community than most... anyone who criticizes my contribution...So much "i" "i" "i" ...looks like this could be part of the problem? ...Jay, Jay, Jay... If you push yourself out so much in front, it's natural that people could expect that you would be the one to want to assist when problems/bugs happen, & notice a lot if you weren't following up? If you weren't up for this task, a quick, simple, courteous post would have sufficed I believe... and then you could perhaps have highly recommended some of the Centcom Team's Members to help. (There is a Centcom TEAM, right?) Definitely from some of those guys' posts they do care to know if there are ways to improve the mod & they want to do support if they can. To end on a truly positive note:I will help Eskwaad with his possible fix though and if it turns out to help with some issues it will be released. This is great news... thanks... and also thank you for the interesting infos on the mod's development history. I'm sure everyone appreciates Centcom & wishes you good luck w/VBS1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WytchDokta Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 (edited) @WD: here nobody is speaking if someone dislike the mod, we speak about support. Nor was I - I was speaking about the situation. There's something going on in the community of late. I have seen it and it's exactly how the greater good described it to me: 'like a virus sweeping through the community, picking us off one by one'. For we are left with only about a dozen or so modders and several dozen supporters of the GR1 modding scene. The fact is that of the dozen or so modders left, most of them are moving on or have moved on to other games, me included. Some of them are willing to remain around the GR.net forums to provide support for potential modders where needed (again, I fall into the category). For this we should respect each modders' work for what it is - they were never under any obligation to release the mod in first place. I will provide support for my work once it's released, because for me, it's all about you guys: If you guys are not happy with a feature of my work, then I'm not happy because you're not happy. I'm like that. It's not for me to comment as to when and whether a patch/fix for CentCom is coming. It's also not for me to comment on the dev teams' mod support. It wouldn't be fair for me to do either. The dev team will inform you when they are ready to. OK, CentCom has got a few bugs (for some people), we know. And we know because the community have played the 'I found a bug' game to death. Reporting [the bug(s)] once is enough. You wanna bog them down and hamper their progress on a patch/fix? OK then, keep reporting the same bug(s). All mod teams want to be what they want to be, that's why they go about making their mods - they don't want to be what some-one else wants them to be. Always remember that nobody is invincible, no plan is foolproof. Too many people these days are trying to be the 'it'. They want everything perfect, but as a matter of fact, nobody is perfect. Practice makes perfect and all that crap, gimme a break, nobody can be or will ever be perfect so why practice in the first place? Go on say it, 'WytchDokta, what are yousupposed to be, a philosopher or something?'. It's not difficult to see les raisons d'etre. Well, I guess it is for some people. Edited March 4, 2007 by WytchDokta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVTalon Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Consider for a moment the huge amount of variables in system spec,hardware,installation methods and connection quality and speeds. How does anyone create a mod (or a game for that matter) that runs the same for all users ? In my opinion there will always be people who struggle to run this stuff. However the "I" thing as Janie 42 calls it will get in the way of things more often then not.Reputation is a finicky mistress, anymore it seems that its requires an equal mix of product and support after install and that is something you buy into the minute you start to create the mod.My recommendation to Jay and the Centcom team is simply to stay in touch and do what available time permits. To those that are having problems running the mod the odds that it is entirely a Centcom problem aren't real high considering the number of people playing the mod successfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay316 Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 I really would just like to put this stuff in the past and as talon pointed out pretty much the issues with people playing the mod are things that modding wont fix, we tested this mod for ages any bugs due to the mod its self i have been aware of for ages but are things that will have to stay with the mod as we can no longer change them. As for alot of the ctd again talon is probbably right its more going to have to do with the game engine and the computer system than mod problems like bad or missing files etc. people are free to post their problems but for the most part are things that wont be fixed mod wise thus are not issues i can provide support for. Just a few things to clear up before i take off and hopefully can put most of this to rest. It is completely okay for anyone to seek advice / help for any GR problem here & nowhere in the forum rules (or 'spirit' IMO) is it said, or suggested, that reporting bugs, asking for support or whether a patch is on the way, etc. is to be considered cause to be moderated (nor should the poster get flamed). I have no problems with people ASKING about problems they have, i do have a problem with people seeing me as obligated to fix their problems. It's also a fact that over the years nearly every large mod effort has received good support from its makers & also from other players/modders. What some people do with their projects does not force all projects to comply in the same way we all have things bigger than gr that come first. For those that complain or claim that they would have done better, the day you invest your time and freely create a mod for gr that surpasses the size and quality of centcom I will congratulate you.Size is not automatically synonomous with quality... ...though it's said that many men become confused on this issue! Note i said size and quality and no where stated they were automatically synonomous i believe that the ammount of content in a mod combined with the quality dictate a mods greatness since its easy to make a mod that adds very little but of great quality and likewise to make a huge mod but with poor workmanship to combine both quality AND size is what i was stating there not that they were interchangable. About your repeated emphasis on Centcom's being "free"... ? All the many GR mods that have been released over the years have been free, and naturally everyone who has & who continues to make GR mods does so in his/her spare time & for free? Yes so why is it that people cant seem to realize that modding is done because we want to as modders not because we are obligated to mod for the community. If we choose not to follow peoples requests for support suddenly we arent giving enough to the community. Personally i feel as a modder that any thing we GIVE is bonus and the expectations of those that do give really are what put me off it. With this project i think i have contributed as much or more to the gr1 community than most... anyone who criticizes my contribution...So much "i" "i" "i" ...looks like this could be part of the problem? ...Jay, Jay, Jay... If you push yourself out so much in front, it's natural that people could expect that you would be the one to want to assist when problems/bugs happen, & notice a lot if you weren't following up? If you weren't up for this task, a quick, simple, courteous post would have sufficed I believe... and then you could perhaps have highly recommended some of the Centcom Team's Members to help. (There is a Centcom TEAM, right?) As far as this crap goes its damn simple, I only will speak for myself and MY thoughts on this and I did not feel that it was right for ME to state MY feelings as if they were on behalf of the others involved. Simple as that. I hope this is the last i need to speek about on this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinker Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 so why is it that people cant seem to realize that modding is done because we want to as modders not because we are obligated to mod for the community. Carefull! If you want to mod, do so, if you want the public to download and play your mod, see quote above? You did your best, things cannot be fixed in places, because the creators are not here. Tinker *EDIT* The creators are about, but not the Files. They cannot possible make from new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WytchDokta Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 (edited) The creators are about, but not the Files. They cannot possible make from new. Never say never my friend. Only one thing is impossible in this world: living forever. On that note, I'm wrapping up my posting in this thread. The truth has been told. What's done is done. Accept that. People need to stop trying to change the past. A friendly word or advice before I wrap it up: actions have reactions. Edited March 5, 2007 by WytchDokta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregV Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 The truth has been told. What's done is done. Accept that. People need to stop trying to change the past. A BIG and FAT 1.2 GB bug with a modscont and readme file cant be called a great mod, sorry but thats my opinion, and this is a free forum, as ive understood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowFella Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 It is indeed a shame that you feel that way and by the looks of it more or less demand Jay & Company to patch it ASAP. They have worked on this mod for 3 years now and asfar as I'm concerend deserve a break to do something other than look at vertices/triangles, pixels and code. Have you ever worked on something for 3 years straight without anything but the publics anticipation and your own enjoyment as only pay? I seriously think the answer to that question is "no" as you don't even seem to have enough patience to wait alittle while for some bug fixes. The one thing I've learnt as a modder, and about modders in general, is that when ppl come in and demand something done you are liable to tick them off...to the point that they stop modding alltogether! So far I haven't released a single mod where I've had a different result than being swamped by PM's and emails about what's wrong with said mod or what the numbnut sending me the email would of loved to see done differently. Even down to silly things like requests of scaling up the barrel thickness on my XM8's so they look more like 7.62x51 instead of 5.56x45....how would you ever notice a few mm worth of a difference ingame??? SO...give it a rest guys...if Jay & co feel they have enough energy and dedication left for a virtually dead game then I'm sure they will come back and do their best to patch CENTCOM.....but if you keep demanding fixes I'm sure you will drive atleast a few of them away for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toniezz Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 (edited) @ GregV, I really suggest you go to your own profile and look back at all your recent posts. You will find nothing constructive in there. How sad. I guess it's hard for you isn't it? As for the rest of this (off)topic. I think everything has already been said by very good people. I hope we all understand each others point of view now a little better. I do! Still available to help in any way possible! Cheer'zz. Edited March 5, 2007 by Toniezz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giampi Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 [A BIG and FAT 1.2 GB bug with a modscont and readme file cant be called a great mod, sorry but thats my opinion, and this is a free forum, as ive understood. This is not a fair comment and can only increase the tension of this issue. Centcom has evidently some issues (I don't call all of them bugs since it seems quite evident that some of them are hardware related) but to say that this is only a 1.2 GB bug is an offense directed to a third part that I, myself, can't avoid to comment. Centcom is a remarkable mod that in my opinion well deserve the definition of "Unofficial Expansion Pack" (in my humble opinion more than Year of The Monkey), someone may not be overall happy about it but it's definitely not an ordinary mod. I'm one of those who called for more support but just because I know the community appreciate it. If you don't like Centcom move on, you can definitely find another mod you are happy with or make your own mod, maybe also the community one day will be glad to play your bug-free, big and high quality mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts