feltzer Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 (edited) Blu our maps were stolen from www.tagaming.com and they still use them in there league. The reason we found out was they forgot to edit MP Docks. the web url on TAG TRR MP05 Docks is still www.itfclan.net instead of www.tagaming.com do you see us ###### and moaning about it? unless you get them copyrighted those maps are fair game. "How do u think u guys made your maps " you can tell me w/e u want to tell me about how u made them. but I know one thing is for sure I know u got those maps from us and modified them. And I can assure u that milkman did the same thing because we wouldnt let IGS take our name off of the maps for the IGS league. so Milkman took ours changed the spawns renamed them and made the IGS TRR maps. I just cant believe the ###### that went on over this when you guys did exactly what bzg did. took someone elses map and modified them to call them yours. ggz Watch the swearing please. Thanks. Edited July 15, 2004 by Sartillies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalker Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 (edited) took someone elses map and modified them to call them yours don't take any maps, modify and call them yours.!!!!! Edited July 15, 2004 by Stalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannik Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 unless you get them copyrighted those maps are fair game. As of an international courts ruling, in 1989 (and a US Supreme Court ruling in 1979), they are protected by law for the author. One does not need to apply for copyright on anything they create, as it's applicable by default. People really need to stop hiding behind the 'I can do whatever I want since you didn't apply for copyright' slogan. It's ignorant at best, and a lie at worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|S&P|Papa6 Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 If one reads the Map making PDF from UBI, the small print up at the top states the tools to make GR maps are for freely distributed mods. The tools. Now once again somebody/group/clan has taken it upon themselves to try and claim someone elses work as their own. Well, I'll tell you why the owner can blast you in a court case for map ownership. He/She has the 3DSMAX file for the map to show the court. But lets not go there shall we? Back a couple of years ago, a guy named gunslinger got a bad reputation from the GR community for having "stolen" alot of peoples work to claim as his own. HE Never got permission to use the works. I also heard about the Darkangel person who released the DA49 mod. same situation. So yes the mods may not cost you money, but the community has a way of weeding out frauds. So why is it so hard for someone to open their mouth or write an email asking the creator to use his/her things they made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleeper Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 (edited) What is this about? I hear a bunch of talk about maps and MP Docks? Are you talking about missions or what? A map is not a mission file. There's a big difference. but I know one thing is for sure I know u got those maps from us and modified them. Feltzer, you may want to figure out what you are talking about before trying to say that Bludawg stole missions and changed the respawns. Every mission file created for any map for gametypes is the same only with different respawns. Any similar new gametype files will be similar in scripting by definition. Why is it always people like you who never post here decide to join up only to argue your points about how you feel its ok to take whatever you want and to defend your total lack of respect for modders. Map=3d environment made with 3d studio max. Mission=Scripting for maps, made in IGOR. **I seem to clearly recall Bludawg around these forums asking about specific concepts for making maps and missions. I remember seeing his progress along the way. He went through the process of learning how to script and make maps as well. I see no reason to believe that he didnt fully create anything he's claimed to. Edited July 15, 2004 by sleeper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH. Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 (edited) A .mis isn't always a mission it don't have to contain a script many guys call a map just the changed enviroment or changed zones with new name! Blu our maps were stolen from www.tagaming.com  and they still use them in there league. The reason we found out was they forgot to edit MP Docks. the web url on TAG TRR MP05 Docks is still www.itfclan.net  instead of www.tagaming.com do you see us ###### and moaning about it? unless you get them copyrighted those maps are fair game. "How do u think u guys made your maps " you can tell me w/e u want to tell me about how u made them. but I know one thing is for sure I know u got those maps from us and modified them. And I can assure u that milkman did the same thing because we wouldnt let IGS take our name off of the maps for the IGS league. so Milkman took ours changed the spawns renamed them and made the IGS TRR maps. I just cant believe the ###### that went on over this when you guys did exactly what bzg did. took someone elses map and modified them to call them yours. ggz   I don't understand TRR is just removed team spawn points so if they changed the solo spawn points they probably made it form the original maps and if they used same spawns as u on one .mis is that so big deal or did they take ur env's? ANd tell me somthing what special with ur maps except of new solo points? Edited July 15, 2004 by pH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleeper Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 (edited) A .mis isn't always a mission it don't have to contain a script Zones, mission names, effect placement, sound placement, room properties, etc. These are also part of a mission file (.mis). A mission is a .mis file, whether it contains trigger and response scripting or not. A mission(.mis) is always a mission. A mission is never a map(.map). many guys call a map just the changed enviroment... Only those who have never done the work of creating an actual map. 10 seconds in IGOR or Notepad doesnt equal the hundreds of hours to make a new map. ...or changed zones with new name! This would be a mission as it is in fact all information found within a .mis file. Again, this can be done in under 10 seconds in IGOR or Notepad. many guys call a map just the changed enviroment or changed zones with new name! These guys are very incorrect. Edited July 15, 2004 by sleeper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH. Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 (edited) Reply to sleeper: Why get upset and make a stupid reply to my post because they call it map? EDIT: What I meant with it was a stupid reply is that it has been said before so many times! Edited July 16, 2004 by pH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannik Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Why get upset and make a stupid reply to my post because they call it map? You Create maps or what? It wasn't a stupid reply. Calling a mission a map is simply incorrect, so sleeper was trying to life the veil of ignorance (and before anyone gets up in arms, ignorance is the correct word for someone who doesn't know the facts). Calling a mission a map is akin to calling a car a highway. The former is the method of interacting with the latter. I'm not a modder, but I do my best to support those who do choose to spend the time and energy creating new content for we common folk. I'm also concerned about the way some people seem ignorant to the fact that if I open up Igor, and do nothing except create a single spawn point, and then export the mission file, I and I alone hold the copyright on said file, and derivative work. Also, I and only I can grant any legal use of said file, which must be explicitly obtained, from me, or you are in violation of (in most places) local and international copyright law. Also, unless I agree to transfer my rights to you, waive them in some explicit way, or contractually grant permanent access to said file, I can agree to someone using it one day, and then later, if I decide I don't want them to have it, they lose their priviledge to continue to possess said file or they risk infringing my copyright. This is also why I cringe everytime I see the phrase 'mod theft' as copyright infringement is a civil issue (except for large scale situations, usually involving money) and theft is a criminal issue. Both are completely independant, and just like calling a mission a map, calling infringement theft is incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shemyaza Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 (edited) It seems to me that there is a lot of Hoo-Haa about what is, in essence, a very simple point here: - If you did not design it, do not disrespect those that did by taking it & claiming it is yours ! If you can't do the job yourself then either find someone who can or go and play a different game ! If my son makes a building brick model, then that model is his and if his brother wants to play with it he has to ask first ! Simple isn't it - children know how to behave so why not you folk that take others' work and claim it as your own ????? In other words, Dont' be a rip-off merchant ! Blessed Be..... Edited July 15, 2004 by Shemyaza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feltzer Posted July 16, 2004 Author Share Posted July 16, 2004 Why is it always people like you who never post here decide to join up only to argue your points about how you feel its ok to take whatever you want and to defend your total lack of respect for modders. Because people like bludawg is trying to turn people against a league that did the same as him and the same as other leagues out there. He made/modified the maps let the league use them, then something didnt go his way so he says dont use them anymore. "thats lame" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleeper Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 (edited) Why is it always people like you who never post here decide to join up only to argue your points about how you feel its ok to take whatever you want and to defend your total lack of respect for modders. Because people like bludawg is trying to turn people against a league that did the same as him and the same as other leagues out there. He made/modified the maps let the league use them, then something didnt go his way so he says dont use them anymore. "thats lame" Since you prefer to argue about Bludawgs maps, I have personally seen screenshots of some of his .max scene renders and was a person who donated .max scenes of specific objects as examples and for him to use within these same maps. I have also donated textures to him that are used in his maps as well. Unless you can show me otherwise where this stolen material is, I suggest you halt your accusations concerning maps. Maybe that will clear it up for those who dont understand the difference between a map and a mission as well. Let me repeat myself as well. I have seen Bludawg's posts here when he was learning how to make his TRR missions. Do a search here. You will see him asking specific questions and troubleshooting these same mission concepts. His proof is online in this very forum, where is yours? http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php...=0entry128984 http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php...=0entry133924 http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php...=0entry190264 Just a few I found. Edited July 16, 2004 by sleeper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deleyt Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 It wasn't a stupid reply.......calling infringement theft is incorrect. @DANNIK: I WANT YOU TO BE MY LAWYER!!!!! (and yes, it was meant to be in caps ) The definition is true though. Lots of people claim to have made "map-packs" only to find they have merely changed the environment-file. Take a look in the download section if you will, it's full of 'em and very confusing (can't understand why gr.net still files them that way though). It's the ignorance of some people that claim to know all (but actually don't), that cause the misunderstandings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBA_Bludawg Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 well feltzer i never used your ITE stuff at all. when i started these TRR i asked milk how he did his and i talked to spawn also. and if you check as sleeper said i asked tons of questions here about making trr maps. i never touched spawns trr maps. and by the way i started from scratch with each missionn that came with the game. just like spawn did. and anything i used in my mod i have asked to use and i have all the emails and conversations to prove it. so ###### feltzer i had my proof of darkness stealing them now where is yours of me???????????????????? i wonder if spawn knows of you coming here claiming this? and i will bash BZG from here on out. i saved everything from them saying they stole renamed and will do anything they want with them. and i have the proof of them letting cheaters in to watch replays for the owners. so do you agree with that also????? if so your for cheating mate and so is ITF no wonder why no will play ITF anymore and you guys had to move on to another league. lmao. bash me all you want no one here will take your word for it. i have all the proof in the world for my trr and my mod. so once again ###### punk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannik Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 He made/modified the maps let the league use them, then something didnt go his way so he says dont use them anymore. "thats lame" *sigh* It's also his internationally protected legal right to do so. Whether "lame" or not, it is his, and his onlyright to do with his own work as he pleases. It's the law. @deleyt: I wish every modder out there would license their product via the GPL. No excuses then when the infringers stop by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pz3 Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 this topic = lame... who cares.... not like TRR missons are hard to make from scratch neways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feltzer Posted July 16, 2004 Author Share Posted July 16, 2004 (edited) this isnt about bzg, bzg doesnt mean anything to me bzg is going to crash & burn as does every league that tries to compete with IGS. my point is our maps were stolen also from a league and we have sufficient proof of that. but we arent raising a giant stink over it trying to ruin a league that is trying to give us somewhere to play. you are bashing bzg publicly for taking your maps even though u did let them put them on there download site. "Then changed your mind" as for cheater admins like I said bzg means nothing to me. just because I defend a league that got bashed over something stupid doesnt mean I support cheating. you basically turned like half if not all the peeps in this forum against bzg just cause of those stupid maps. if you like your maps so much dont make them available for download and maybe this wouldnt happen. The minute u put them on the web to be downloaded "this kinda thing is going to happen m8" there is going to be someone out there who will take it and use it. If your maps were made clean, ggz to you but in the past what I have seen is people taking maps and changing the popular maps so peeps think they are different. And cause you ask for help doing stuff on a forum doesnt mean you made them from scratch. it could mean you had no clue how to do it so you needed help learning. "which there isnt anything wrong with that" Half the world plays on pirated software, and your crying about maps that cost you nothing to make. lol im done typing. just for the record im not hating you " I dont even know you " but when I see that your on here bashing bzg and giving them a bad rap just because of some TRR Maps it ###### me off. because if your gonna bash a league for it there isnt just bzg involved in using maps that were not theres. thats all adios amigo lol btw, why is there talk about missions. TRR = only good for team death match. I dont even think TRR is played on normal missions "Could be wrong" but ive never played it lol never will either i wonder if spawn knows of you coming here claiming this? what does this matter ^? I have my thoughts as to what happened. if he is to tell me he thinks you did them all yourself. Than I would believe what he feels and I would be man enough to appologize for accusing you of taking ours/anyones maps. but what I wont appologize for is me feeling that you are being a baby about someone taking your maps that you made available to everyone "An entire league" had access to your maps and u didnt expect them to get pirated. rofl good luck. Welcome to the world wide web man Half the people in this forum are probobaly playing on pirated software. and yet saying omg I cant believe someone took your maps! but yet they would take a 40-50 dollar game or even a 500 - 1000$ program for no money at all. Gimme a break "Hypicritical" is all it is Edited July 16, 2004 by feltzer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBA_Bludawg Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 and for the record spawn told milk he could use the very first set he did, and he also told me how to make them and what he did to make trr. it was pretty simple after that. before you say me and milk stole them take a look at milkmans installer spawns name is right there in plain view on the installer. so you dont even have your facts right. yeah i did put them up for download i was with the league for one night. cause of the bs owners that want cheaters watching replays for them. and i locked a cheating admin which the owners unlocked then relocked after the cheater watched the replay. and thats why me and my team quit BZG and why two lead admins quit that night. so why do you defend a league like this? im for any league that starts up and will help but i will not help a league that IS RAN THAT WAY! nor should anyone else. and when i left i asked for trr to be pulled and they said ok np. then over night bzg had its own trr. which i know is no way in hell can be made over night. then after they was caught and denied stealing them i posted all screen shots of him (owner stealing them) then they didnt like that cause it made the league look even worse and it was all TRUTH!!!!! truth hurts feltzer so why defend that league? maybe you have money tied to it or something. i dont know but ask in gsa and you will see no one cares for that league at all now since all the truth got out. good day and ggz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blistr Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 lol btw, why is there talk about missions. TRR = only good for team death match. I dont even think TRR is played on normal missions "Could be wrong" but ive never played it lol never will either As sleeper and Dannik said... A .mis isn't always a mission it don't have to contain a script Zones, mission names, effect placement, sound placement, room properties, etc. These are also part of a mission file (.mis). A mission is a .mis file, whether it contains trigger and response scripting or not. A mission(.mis) is always a mission. A mission is never a map(.map). many guys call a map just the changed enviroment... Only those who have never done the work of creating an actual map. 10 seconds in IGOR or Notepad doesnt equal the hundreds of hours to make a new map. ...or changed zones with new name! This would be a mission as it is in fact all information found within a .mis file. Again, this can be done in under 10 seconds in IGOR or Notepad. many guys call a map just the changed enviroment or changed zones with new name! These guys are very incorrect. Calling a mission a map is simply incorrect, so sleeper was trying to lift the veil of ignorance (and before anyone gets up in arms, ignorance is the correct word for someone who doesn't know the facts). Calling a mission a map is akin to calling a car a highway. The former is the method of interacting with the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH. Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 But to call a .mis file without script a mission isn't perfect either we should find a new word about edited .mis files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feltzer Posted July 16, 2004 Author Share Posted July 16, 2004 (edited) because I hate IGS and want to see a new league take over It is the truth that they were stolen from you they admitted it. But what can u do about it? there is nothing, I think in court I think the judge would fine anyone in the courtroom to sue over maps for a game. I have nothing into bzg, lol I wouldnt put anything into a league that is trying to go against IGS. "Somehow IGS is what everyone loves" even though the admins in IGS dont even push the replay button on IGS :S Edited July 16, 2004 by feltzer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleeper Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 But to call a .mis file without script a mission isn't perfect either we should find a new word about edited .mis files Your point make sense in a way. But the fact of the matter is that it is a mission file with the file extension=.mis, .mis referrring to mission. A mission file with scripted triggers and responses or even simply spawn zones is in no way a map. Thats what I was arguing. The reason, you might ask, because this guy doesnt know what a mission is, he doesnt know what a map is and hes claiming that Bludawg took an empty mission file that originally contained only spawn zones, moved the spawn zones and called it his own. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. These TRR mission files contain nothing but zones. There are no new zones added or subtracted from the standard 36 spawns points, 4 team bases, team respawns, central area, mission insertion/extraction etc. How can you say that someone took a file like this and moved the zones around and its theft? Can only one person ever move the stock zones around in a mission file and everyone else who does so thereafter is stealing his work? This is just plain stupid. The guy who started this topic obviously has no clue as to what a mission file is, how to move a zone in a mission file, or how to mod this game period. So if I now take these same TRR mission files and move the zones, what's the difference between that and taking the stock mission file and moving the zones? Its nothing but spawn zones. Now if I didnt move the zones, it could obviously be considered a copy. Anyone who's ever even looked at a mission file in IGOR can see how stupid this is. Lets just give it a rest, there's really nothing to argue about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRT Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 ...sleeper for president! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteKnight77 Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 I have been watching this closely and any more hints of name calling ("feeling that you are being a baby") gets this thread locked. Everybody chill out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blistr Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 I'm confused... What is being debated here? Was Bludawg's map(s) modified or used without permission (i.e. the physical environment within GR such as trees, buildings, the ground, etc.) or were the mission files (i.e. respawn points) that Bludawg made modified (using original GR maps, not his own)? When I first read Bludawg's plight I thought it was his map(s) that was the issue here,Since you prefer to argue about Bludawgs maps, I have personally seen screenshots of some of his .max scene renders and was a person who donated .max scenes of specific objects as examples and for him to use within these same maps. I have also donated textures to him that are used in his maps as well. Unless you can show me otherwise where this stolen material is, I suggest you halt your accusations concerning maps.and this backed up my conclusion, that is until now...well feltzer i never used your ITE stuff at all. when i started these TRR i asked milk how he did his and i talked to spawn also. and if you check as sleeper said i asked tons of questions here about making trr maps. i never touched spawns trr maps. and by the way i started from scratch with each missionn that came with the game. just like spawn did. and anything i used in my mod i have asked to use and i have all the emails and conversations to prove it.I only just noticed this after rereading this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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