Harry Lee

[bogiegraphics]

Thanks again for everyone's enthusiasm with testing this mission.

However, do you think the middle tier (1.2K AI) is necessary? Are there really that few machines that won't be able to run the 1.6K? If not, maybe it's better to save yourself the work.

I figure 10 minutes per map worth of work Really, it is not that big of deal once I have the initial template which can take a while. From that point, I can convert directly within the XML to manipulate the AI.

But if you really look at it, the middle tier is 500 AI more than the low and 400 less than the hight tier, which is a significant amount of AI considering most coop maps have between 70-300 AI.

Moreover this happened to checkpoint #4, after that point it didnt crash anymore.

OutlawZ

Ares

This seems to be a volatile area for these "AI Crashes" which is also the area where it would crash for me every time when trying to breach the 2,000 AI mark. The second area that most folks seem to crash is the triggers right before check point #2 that spawns the tank - which may be more due to the actual volume of AI that are still active. The crashes that have been posted are around the AI collisions and not being able to interpret their code.

What I'm going to do here is adjust the AI at these locations - which is triggered by breaching the threshold of the entrance to the dam area.

And as others have noted the final Havoc flies in very low and slowly.

The final release will have the Havoc raised up quite a bit more so it can clear the obsticals.

What I like about this mission is you are compelled to act as a team/squad it is no good trying to go off on your own you just won't make it - at least not without incurring multiple deaths OR you are a really top player with a limitless supply of ammo.

I never was much for missions where you had that excessive amount of AI rushing you all at once. But I have to say, I've really enjoyed this map for the very reason that you mentioned, Anthony. I had the infamous Vitale over two nights ago and we were just shouting commands back and fourth like we never had before, assuring that our check points were clear. Still died quite a bit with just the two of us, but very exhilarating and we did hold our own.

Take care,

Bogie

[Viper714]

What I like about this mission is you are compelled to act as a team/squad it is no good trying to go off on your own you just won't make it - at least not without incurring multiple deaths OR you are a really top player with a limitless supply of ammo.

I never was much for missions where you had that excessive amount of AI rushing you all at once. But I have to say, I've really enjoyed this map for the very reason that you mentioned, Anthony. I had the infamous Vitale over two nights ago and we were just shouting commands back and fourth like we never had before, assuring that our check points were clear. Still died quite a bit with just the two of us, but very exhilarating and we did hold our own.

Take care,

Bogie

I agree with both of you. The earlier maps were great in a linear sort of way. Later maps were created with all objectives open and players were able to go on there own or in groups and attack those objectives. Now this is more of a linear map after insertion with several dynamic spawn points along the way. These could easily be objectives in the future. BTW, the dynamic spawn points are very effective. So, we are back to the original way of playing the maps, but with the difference of a more realistic defensive aggressor. Not just in aggression, but in AMOUNT. Sometimes it feels like you have the whole darn battalion after you!! Because of this it really enforces team play which in my opinion is great!! Let's not forget about the vehicles as well, this is a great addition. It adds a diversity of threats. Now if we could just get the Havoc to emit flares, well that's another story!!!

I believe there is room for both types of game play depending on the mission requirement. Sometimes you need to be covert until when or if everything goes to hell. Then there are times of Holy Crap, lets get outta here!! I really like the latter because its fast paced!!! It is more of a challenge and allows for another famous mantra, "Reload!! Reload!!! RELOAD!!!!"

All in all these generation of maps are awesome! With the recent weapon MOD's (Brettzies) and customizable Brettzies weapon kit's, maps like this provide some balance for them. However, some of the Brettzies custom MOD's are to overpowering. Now we have to make the game more powerful. Thus the never ending seesaw of military engagements. Next we will have Nukes and Star Wars defensive systems, etc, etc.

[bogiegraphics]

Well put, Viper!

Well, I wasn't going to have another beta release of this map, but I've just made too many AI changes to risk having a dud map. So here is v1.5b -> http://www.diverecovery.com/graw2/coop_bog...rylee_v1_5b.zip

This beta has 4 missions associated with the bundle, so pick your poison:

- 701 AI version

- 1,217 AI version

- 1,600 AI version

- 2,051 AI version - I remember playing with 1,157 AI and Viper made the comment on Ventrillo "I cannot even imagine 1,500 AI"... Well now your dreams are realized!

**Note that all of the sniper positions are in the same spot for all above versions. However, for the production release, I will mix them up.

Changes include:

- Made significant changes to some of the suspected AI patrol locations to reduce crashes. Which it has for the 2K version

- Adjusted AI release times depending on the trigger: IE made them more or less frequent

- Lifed Havoc #3 higher from the ground

- Removed the "floating props"... or at least the ones I could find

- Replaced the rocks at the end that had no texture

- Adjusted 2 of the Mounted MG positions so the AI manning them would not spawn in view

- Fixed the last wood wall so that the AI cannot shoot you through it.

Could not adjust the initial view of the AI coming around the corner when you start. There needed to be enough space to allow the vehicles to snake around the wood walls.

Enjoy,

Bogie

[Viper714]

2,051 AI!!!

You are MAD! Mad I tell you!!!

I thought you mentioned a limit of just over 1700 AI??

Limits, we don't need no stink'in limits!!!

Man, this is going to be one CRAZY map!!!

BTW, now you're really going to forget where the AI's are at!!!!

[TAW_Zero]

lol just when i get the spawnin ai locations memorized u switch it up o well back to the drawin board

just wish there was a mule dont like dying to get a good weapon

2000 ai is a good challenge lonewolf the slower the better on this map for a long life

keep up the good work bogie

[oz-ares]

lol just when i get the spawnin ai locations memorized u switch it up o well back to the drawin board

just wish there was a mule dont like dying to get a good weapon

2000 ai is a good challenge lonewolf the slower the better on this map for a long life

keep up the good work bogie

That would be great. Collect enemy weapons often doesnt work immediatly by pressing "x" (Cannot pick up weapon), on the other hand.... hehe a lot of soldiers, surviving is only possible with louder enemy weapons... is great too and also a higher challenge.

I think a dropped M.U.L.E. would be great support. Remember ~ 6 vs. ~2000

What would this post look like without an error code :

Crash in application version: 30899.3048

Unhandled exception - access violation

C STACK:

graw2 (???) : ???

??? (???) : ???

SCRIPT STACK:

data\lib\units\extensions\inventory.dsf(0)

Renderer: threaded

Physics : threaded

Bridge Checkpoint #8

Please let me know if i post common game errors! Iam new to this beta section and i will do my best to learn the gamecrashes that the modders cant avoid / cant fix because the crashes are depended on the gamestructure itself.

The upper code doesnt give a hint on the problem which causes the crash, but iam not sure, so i post it.

Regards

Ares

[oz-ares]

We will test this night with 3rd person mod (inzane).

Feel free to join ! Will be funny !

Moreover i will start recording for the upcoming "coop-movie".

Will set the server on 8 slots, if more will appear. ^^

Regards

Ares

[Viper714]

Bogie,

Here is the video I promised you last night. Sorry for being late, work got in the way!! Can you believe that!!!

Miracle Havoc!!

Plus of course the other stuff we spoke about!!!

[Twix]

Ok .. here we go ...

Akive WAN-Server with 2 Players Version 1.5

After Checkpoint 8 (the first Tower on Bridge)

my friend get the following Error, and can't re-join.

Crash in application version: 30899.3048

data\lib\units\ai\vehicles\hattacklogics.dsf(-1): cant find member: _name in type <Unit>

SCRIPT STACK:

data\lib\units\ai\vehicles\hattacklogics.dsf(0)

data\lib\units\ai\vehicles\hattacklogics.dsf(0)

data\lib\managers\aihivebrain.dsf(0)

data\lib\managers\aihivebrain.dsf(0)

data\lib\managers\aihivebrain.dsf(0)

data\lib\managers\aihivebrain.dsf(0)

data\lib\managers\aihivebrain.dsf(0)

data\lib\setups\setup.dsf(0)

data\level\level.dsf(0)

Renderer: threaded

Physics : threaded

.. Greets .. Twix ..

[sightreader]

Played on Barking Spider. This map is an instant classic.

I saw a lot of people dropping out and coming back in, so I surmise there was a lot of crashing going on. It happened to me twice.

The first was right after getting killed by the tank near Checkpoint 5 or something... just short of the big bridge at the end.

Crash in application version: 30899.3048


Unhandled exception - access violation




C STACK:

						graw2   (???) : ???

This last one was towards the end of the map; maybe 3 checkpoints from the end, after crossing the bridge. As usual, crashed right after dying.

Crash in application version: 30899.3048


data\lib\units\extensions\inventory.dsf(-1): cant find member: hold_weapon in type <UE_ScriptExtension>

[TAW_Zero]

the hold weapon crash ahs been happening alot on the new maps maybe cause of the ai?

[Rpghard]

the hold weapon crash ahs been happening alot on the new maps maybe cause of the ai?

Random crash log due to the GRAW2 unfinished forever buggy game.Just ignore them

[bogiegraphics]

These are somewhat random, but the greater the activity, the more likely the GRAW2 processes are unable to interpret the commands - even at the client side. So I've been able to spread out some of the spawning of the AI so that these errors are less frequent.

I did replace a few locations where the AI were spawning as I was noticing that they would sometimes spawn on top of one another causing some congestion. Even though I have the AI imediately run away from the initla spawn point, a few in tighter quarters were causing issues.

So if you see that you have excessive crashes (as in the 2,051 version) take it down a notch to see if the lighter AI versions resolve the issue.

Either that or just shoot faster

I do not put any mules on the Coop maps. Major no-no. Since we do have vehicles, pleople will rush to the mules to reload... if you reload from an RPG ... you will crash not only the client, but the dedicated server\host. Found this out early on and it still holds true.

Tactics that I have found to work well with this map:

- Make every shot count.

- When you are running low, let a few AI get close to you before gunning them down so you can get their weapon

- Swap between guns on the ground. Even if you have plenty of ammo, just pick up a weapon, take a shot, then swap back if necessary. For some reason, the weapon seems to hang around a little longer.

- Do not rush to the respawn checkpoints. Assure that the area is clear before triggering them so you do not get bomb rushed. So creep up slowly and keep your distance.

If you cannot immediately pick up a weapon (by pressing X), just move a little and try again. Most of the time it works.

Incidentially, there was no way to keep the third Havoc from going through the transparent mountains and shooting you from behind the textured mountains. I raised it over 3,000 centimeters and it still would dissapear. So say goodbye... but I may have a replacement.

I have some other tech that I'm trying to incorporate to make the game a little more challenging, so bear with me.

Thanks,

Bogie

[Viper714]

I have some other tech that I'm trying to incorporate to make the game a little more challenging, so bear with me.

Thanks,

Bogie

OH CRAP!!!!!

[Anthony]

I have some other tech that I'm trying to incorporate to make the game a little more challenging, so bear with me.

Thanks,

Bogie

Are you thinking of introducing bare-knuckle fighting once the bullets run out?

Anthony

[bogiegraphics]

Are you thinking of introducing bare-knuckle fighting once the bullets run out?

Anthony

Exactly!!

Looking at changing some of the rules\parameters of the game. Haven't been too successful with these changes, but some like breaking the 12 max coop players I've been able to do. My limitations right now seem to be with XML. I've been on the W3.org site for two days trying to find work-arounds that were placed in GRAW2 ... hopefully we'll have a complete product in a few days!

Bogie

[bogiegraphics]

Here is the version 1.6 beta... I feel like I'm nickel & diming all of you with little changes ... so hopefully this update will be a little more radical.

I created a "BOGIE_" gametype so I could play with the game parameters, so no longer will this map have a "coop_Bogie_Harrylee..." preface, but a "BOGIE_HarryLee..." Changes include:

**Please note that all new enhancements did work on the LAN. I just hope they translate to the Dedicated servers. Also have not tested with the Brettzies 2.05b.

- No friendly blue diamonds

- No friendly team players on your minimap. Both this and no diamonds will force you to work even stronger than before as a team.

- With that in mind, I hard coded the server to not eject team killing

- Hard coded to allow friendly fire to kill you

- The server will notify you if your team mate has killed you just like in TvT maps

- Now will allow max 20 Players versus the usual max 12

- Adjusted the Rifleman & Sniper standard weapon kits

- Added a misty environment at the start that will clear once the first checkpoint is reached. Please note that the subsuquent environment will be a random day environment in where I believe one does not quite blend with the mist... so it will jerk for a micro second. All other blending looks great over 90 seconds.

- Added a couple more AI. Version will now be: 706, 1222, 1605 & 2056

- Adjusted Havoc 3 to appear sooner so it will not fly into the mountain

- Check Point #7 was moved and the trigger was placed away from the wall so folks do not spawn on the building.

- All props should have textures.

- Supposedly, I was able to reduce the distance that your "shot indicator" goes off. Was looking at the possibility of removing it... still working on it, but not critical.

- Blocked off the maintence bay roof (towards the end) with more barrels, mounted .50 cal and more barrels. I did recreate going over with the diving slide, but only when I had the debug speed turned on.

To do list

- Add grid coordinates to the minimap

- MAke the full compliment of 16 maps.

- Add some NARCOM videos, but not too excessive. Note that I will try and add more of the tranquil bunny rabbit ones versus the ones where Keating is always yelling at you per AGBs request (they can be sensitive).

- Focus on ways to punish team killing and assure that you are deducted.

Will not be able to do

- Was adding some random "desperate" player chatter like "MEDIC", "Man, this is freakin nuts!", "Man Down", etc... but I would need to load quite a few sound bank files into memory and would just take up too many valuable resources with this map.

- Could not add a new mix of custom NARCOM videos

- Could not get the tactical map to work with this custom gametype. Probably would have added more memory load anyway.

http://www.diverecovery.com/graw2/coop_bog...rylee_v1_6b.zip

Enjoy!!

Bogie

[davros]

Let me the first to say...wow!

This has gone above and beyond! Holy mission madness batman! I can see the tag lines, this mission is so big Bogie had to create a whole new game type!

This should max out the expletives for this Thursday's gaming session.

Hope the server can handle the game this time, last lan session it crashed after 1 1/2 hours of pounding at enemy. Amazingly good fun though. Not too fast, not too slow and with the right level of cover and challenge.

I especially like the rushes at the start with the placement of the fences allowing controlled movement/grenading.

Thanks again Bogie.

[Viper714]

"This is the big one Elizabeth!!" (as Viper holds his chest and leans backwards falling to the floor)

This is going to be interesting!! No blue diamonds, hold smokes. I agree that the expletives are going to fly!!! Friendly fire run a muck!!

AGB: "Oh we're so Sensaaative!!"

BTW, leave the Screaming Keaton!! I love to hear the AGB commentary during game play. It's hilarious!!!

[bogiegraphics]

Let me the first to say...wow!

This has gone above and beyond! Holy mission madness batman! I can see the tag lines, this mission is so big Bogie had to create a whole new game type!

This should max out the expletives for this Thursday's gaming session.

Hope the server can handle the game this time, last lan session it crashed after 1 1/2 hours of pounding at enemy. Amazingly good fun though. Not too fast, not too slow and with the right level of cover and challenge.

I especially like the rushes at the start with the placement of the fences allowing controlled movement/grenading.

Thanks again Bogie.

Glad you like the game, and as always, glad to be a part of your Thursday game night even if I cannot be there in person!!

FYI, try the 1,222 version if you are finding that the clients and\or servers are having AI HiveBrain or Cand Find Weapon Member errors. Still should be plenty of AI to keep you busy

This is going to be interesting!! No blue diamonds, hold smokes. I agree that the expletives are going to fly!!! Friendly fire run a muck!!

AGB: "Oh we're so Sensaaative!!"

BTW, leave the Screaming Keaton!! I love to hear the AGB commentary during game play. It's hilarious!!!

Just had to throw that in... Actually, I wanted a little more chaos type distractions in this mission, but it looks like the AI will have to do.

Yes, lack of blue diamonds really makes a difference. Already had some small mini tests with the neighbor kid and just a few minutes ago with Anthony, and it is hard to distinguish where your team mates are... Sorry Anthony, for blowing you up BTW.

-------------------------

Just a quick update, I have not figured out a way to decrease score when you team kill... Due to the way that I have the gametype setup, it may not be possible.

On another note, I am going to incorporate all of the RvsA (Recon vs Assault) weapons in the final version and due away with most of the typical ones that we are used to. So the top weapon for each 4 classes:

Rifleman Kit #7:

- RX4, scope, suppression, 6 magazines, 1 GL

- M8 Compact, 4 magazines

- 1 each grenade & smoke

Scout Kit #7:

- CRYE, scope, suppression, 6 magazines, 2 GL

- MP5, scope, suppression, 4 magazines

- 1 each grenade & smoke

Sniper Kit #7:

- M99 Barrett, 30 rounds

- MP5, scope, suppression, 4 magazines

- 1 Smoke

Soccer Kit #1 (for you hard core players to want to pick up weapons)

- GLOCK, 1 magazine

- 1 Smoke

The above kits should assist with the running out of ammo situation. I still find that not killing all of the AI at a distance is a skillfull way to bring the weapons to you.

------------------------------------------

Also, I've tried to make our own AI blend in with the Enemy AI as more of an infiltration mission, but it worked too well and none of the enemy AI would shoot at you..IE Using Mexincan Skins versus US skins so you look like the enemy AI. I could have reslotted all of the Enemy, but that is a system crash just waiting to happen. Perhaps in the future we can figure out a way to play the mexican mercenaries and we have to go up against the Ghosts & Loyalists... I think it can be done

See y'all on the battlefield!

Bogie

[TAW_Zero]

the game allready punishes u for tk'in it deducts one kill for each tk

[bogiegraphics]

the game allready punishes u for tk'in it deducts one kill for each tk

For version 1.5b and earlier as well as all other "Coop" gametypes, that is correct. What I've done is make the game more of a Coop\TvT hybrid to be able to change some of the parameters of the game. One of my major goals was to remove the Blue Diamonds and since going to the original code was not an option (without creating a new mod) I had to take a different approach. This new approach was to keep the coop portions of the game, but treat each other teammate as though they were in a Deathmatch... essentially, treat your team mates as enemies so the system would not label you as a "blue diamond buddy" .... yea, that sounded odd.

But in any case, since Deathmatch games reward you for team kills, I am unable to remove the addition of your score when you kill a partner. The only thing that I could do was try to humiliate you by putting up the "who killed who" icons below the minimap.

Hope this explanation helped.

Bogie

[bogiegraphics]

FYI - There is an issue with V1.6b on dedicated servers due to a server setting that I hard coded (setting 20 players MAX). Will have this fixed and released a little later.

[Anthony]

Yes, lack of blue diamonds really makes a difference. Already had some small mini tests with the neighbor kid and just a few minutes ago with Anthony, and it is hard to distinguish where your team mates are... Sorry Anthony, for blowing you up BTW.

Bogie

Not a problem with the tk I thought you were testing the messaging system to make sure it was displaying correctly on screen - which it did I'm happy to say.

However I think this could become a common occurrence as even in that short test it was very hard to tell friend from foe and there were only two of us. Given a squad of 8 or 10 say in the heat of battle I can see the clear likelihood of numerous accidental tk's not to mention the possibility of malicious tk if someone gets frustrated by the way the game is going. I feel getting kicked is a strong deterrent to player tk's even though it still happens (albeit only occasionally) as players leave the game but to remove this leaves the game open to abuse and means that it is probably wise to make sure you know who you're playing with.

I'm sorry to put a negative slant on things and maybe I'm being too cynical but there are all kinds of folks out there - but at the end of the day it's only a game - and we're only here because we get enjoyment from it.

Thanks as always for your hard work

Anthony

PS Bogie why have you changed your avatar to a photo of John Merrick?

[bogiegraphics]

Not a problem with the tk I thought you were testing the messaging system to make sure it was displaying correctly on screen - which it did I'm happy to say.

Not that time I had no idea you were in front of me when I blew the Panhard via the grenade. But you're right, the icon of shame did display.

However I think this could become a common occurrence as even in that short test it was very hard to tell friend from foe and there were only two of us. Given a squad of 8 or 10 say in the heat of battle I can see the clear likelihood of numerous accidental tk's not to mention the possibility of malicious tk if someone gets frustrated by the way the game is going. I feel getting kicked is a strong deterrent to player tk's even though it still happens (albeit only occasionally) as players leave the game but to remove this leaves the game open to abuse and means that it is probably wise to make sure you know who you're playing with.

You are absolutely right. Team AGB and I had some discussions about it as well as the possiblity of having a diamonds version of the map. After having given this some thought, I truely believe that the objectives of this map were to:

- Create as many AI as the system allows that would...

- ... be challenging for larger teams of 8 or more

- Force cohesive team work versus competing for enemy kills

- Did I say, make it as challenging as possible?

We had 4 players on the server + Ventrillo last night using the new standard weapons and we were the epitome of a fully functional team: Calling out our locations, knowing the majority of the time where each player was, updating the others on individual goals, covering one another, the location of critial enemy positions, etc. It was truly a great game to play. There were accidental kills which had quite a few chuckles, but only a small handfull considering that we were playing the 2,056 AI version - I think that the lack of diamonds made us more aware and focused.

The big caveat is the frustrated player who intentionally turns on their team mates... It is hard to mod for the one offs, but I believe that the enjoyment from the additional challenge will outweigh this type of player.

Not having the diamonds and turning on the "who-killed-who" messages are new and unique, so some will like and some will not. Be lucky that I could not get the player skins to look like the Mexican Mercenaries... that would have been brutal as an infiltration mission.

Now the punishing of the team kills... does not matter. My initial thought is that the server\host typically use the default of 2 team kills prior to ejection, which is way too low, especially if someone misses with a grenade by accident... However, I could not manipulate the embedded code to remove the blue diamonds without creating a separate mod. So in order to have the blue diamonds removed, I had to make each player and enemy of each other. If I was to put tagging on, your team mates would all have red diamonds.

So essentially, if I were to punish for team killing, you would never be punished because as the system is concerned, you are a lone wolf... which is why I cannot remove the addition of score when you do kill a team member.

I'm sorry to put a negative slant on things and maybe I'm being too cynical but there are all kinds of folks out there - but at the end of the day it's only a game - and we're only here because we get enjoyment from it.

Not cynical at all, I want to have every view so that I can help make the game more valuable to others

PS Bogie why have you changed your avatar to a photo of John Merrick?

Because he is also a Star Wars fan

The nickname Bogie derived from a bar in the 80's called "Bogie's Bar" by the Mississippi, just west of the arch in St. Louis, MO. I always wore those T*Shirts and the name just stuck.

Thanks again, Anthony!!