ita_killabees Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Hi, i am from the italian PGS clan; I will discuss with them tomorrow about the ban list, but before i gotta ask u a thing: how can i proof that one guy is cheating? No replay, i neither know what cheat are on the "market"... Can u help me in this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-|-aMMo-|- Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 You really cant. There is no way of proof at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ita_killabees Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 ouch... Hope they'll do a patch for replays...and, also when replay will be saved, i'll need someone to teach me how to look at them! Just like in GR1! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRe*DmG Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 I know im reviving an acient post here but.......has this screenshot system been developed yet? Can we buy it for our server? Would all the major clan servers be willing to getting this running? I know graw 2 is coming but who really knows how long for sure. We had a hacker come into the core server and announce on our comms that he was hacking.....we didnt believe him so we continued to play and basically get raped.....the next day the guy had posted a video of him see all of us through walls and then shooting us in the back ass we passed by. Also, lately many of our guys have been seeing people vanish in places that have no exit and then reappear right in front of us moments later while we stood there with our heads up our butts amazed. We have seen a few speed cheaters too and i wonder how this would stop them. I cant log onto to the server at the end of the night and look at 500 screenshots and be able to tell anything except the wall hack that one guy was using......but if thats what it takes to stop him then im game! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FI_FlimFlam Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Currently nothing has changed since the implementation of patch 1.35. All it does is check for file consistency between the server and client as well as a few other things like timings of the client. The same 3rd party cheats using methods that do not involve editing or modifying stock files have worked since day one and unless they change something with GRAW2 they will continue to work. This will be of concern for matches and ladders. Likely, there will have to be some form of 3rd party software to combat it for matches like running fraps or other software to take screenshots or videos of the player. This of course would be voluntarily run by the player on the client and would most likely only be enforcable for match play not much use for public server. That is unless GRIN has completely re-worked the AC for GRAW2 - but given the time frame I doubt that is likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRe*DmG Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Currently nothing has changed since the implementation of patch 1.35. All it does is check for file consistency between the server and client as well as a few other things like timings of the client. The same 3rd party cheats using methods that do not involve editing or modifying stock files have worked since day one and unless they change something with GRAW2 they will continue to work. This will be of concern for matches and ladders. Likely, there will have to be some form of 3rd party software to combat it for matches like running fraps or other software to take screenshots or videos of the player. This of course would be voluntarily run by the player on the client and would most likely only be enforcable for match play not much use for public server. That is unless GRIN has completely re-worked the AC for GRAW2 - but given the time frame I doubt that is likely. Check out gamecam.....i wanted to catch a speed hacker so i bought the full version of fraps after reading the you could capture with a dual core at over 100fps.....I have an e6700 oc'd to 3500mhz orthos prime stable.....so i assumed it would work. It wont record on any setting at an fps higher then 45 and ussually rcords at around 35fps. I was on a rampage to find something that worked and gamecam seems to record very well, its free, the files are smaller, and best of all the framerates dont deter you from your normal gameplay. Pretty good stuff. As for the AC....isnt ubisoft bringin punkbuster in on this one??? I think that a dedi xml max ping setting would actually solve alot of graws probs.....then toss in ac to make it real cherry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FI_FlimFlam Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Yeah gamecam might be an option. THere are also 3rd party SS tools for matching that at least one league/ladder uses. But that is all 3rd party. I don't know about punkbuster for GRAW. It's a competely different game engine that has been used for PB. It would take some time to integrate it, not just a couple of months. Some of the core funcationality of the it just isn't supported by the Dedicated server from the original GRAW. It would take alot of work to incorporate that functionality into the disel dedicated server. It would be very nice if they have been working on doing just that for the last 6 months or so, but I'm not going to get my hopes up. But I will be the first to jump for joy if they do. One thing that will most likely have to happen if PB is integrated is that the mod structure will have to be locked down and that will make most in the community none too happy. As it stands it's a wild free for all with mods with anything goes mix and match for the most part. Any AC that is implemented will nix that and make it more so that everyone plays with the same setup. PB will make it even more strict as that it would be likely that alot more servers will run with it on than currently run the 1.35 AC of GRAW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulaski Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 One thing that will most likely have to happen if PB is integrated is that the mod structure will have to be locked down and that will make most in the community none too happy. As it stands it's a wild free for all with mods with anything goes mix and match for the most part. Any AC that is implemented will nix that and make it more so that everyone plays with the same setup. PB will make it even more strict as that it would be likely that alot more servers will run with it on than currently run the 1.35 AC of GRAW. PB and Mods shouldn't be a problem, I know games like COD, BF Series, and even Farcry could runs mods and PB without any problems. Maybe a few cvars add, but no big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FI_FlimFlam Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Oh I know. But GRAW current state of mix and match mods to your delight won't really fly with PB is all I'm saying. In order to incorporate PB, a stricter way of handling mods will be necessary. Like in other games like BF2 where you have to activate your mod, and then are only allowed to see servers running the same mod as you. This would also mean that likely people won't be able to mix and match mods as easily as they might have to repackage all their favorite mods under one for their server. Many people won't like this at all. For example some people run the m4 mod + the blood mod + a uniform mod. While another guy runs the m4 + OGN weapons + plus the blood mod. It's likely they both wouldn't be able to play in the same server if stricter "activation" of mods for mp was incorporated into GRAW2. Then again maybe GRIN can have 3 settings for the server: 1) No mods 2)Same mods (as server) allowed or 3)Any mods allowed. Pretty self explainitory. But sorting them in the server browser would be a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRe*DmG Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Replays, as it was in GR1, was the best tool there is to catch cheaters and keep laddering going (although it was not perfect) A shame replays were omitted. It should have been kept and further refined/perfected if I was to decide... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRe*DmG Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 (edited) Replays, as it was in GR1, was the best tool there is to catch cheaters and keep laddering going (although it was not perfect) A shame replays were omitted. It should have been kept and further refined/perfected if I was to decide... well, i and a few from my team have discovered that graw just has too many inconsistances to tell if someone is hacking. I learned this when i feel out of a tower while running into the ledge in the top of one......yeah thats right....i fell out! I dont know if grin or ubi make this a purposefull thing or not but, If you run forward and dive and the same time while against a ledge in a tower or any other ledge of the same height then you can prone crawl over it. Then I had a team mate who set their in game netspeed to 3000 and i couldnt kill him. This is bs if you ask me. Somehow the prediction began to work in his favor and nothing i could do short of a nade would hurt him. Know i barely play cause this happens all the time and i cant help but wonder if the other guy shas his game setup right or is he exploiting this or what? A software should know if some goob is doing this. Cod did this and different servers ran different netspeed so one could optimize accordingly if they knew, but this was rediculous because this left the netspeed up to those who knew the max netspeed of the server. This wasnt a download speed for the server either, but rather a divided expectation of what the optimal upload for an individual player should be. We also accused clone of hacking numerous times (which if they are readin we appologize for that but not other things, no comment at this time), because they slide around crouched but looked like they were skating on skate boards. Instead we found this to be an exploit. we still havent figured out the sidewinder prone b.s. then pop up in a split ms and shoot you point blank while you have them scoped in the head. You can run and dive and then when you get back up quickly then you are skating around looking crouched but to you you really are not. Test this and if you cant figure it out then i will show any admins out there....it sucks. So, basically a guy could think he is shooting at your head and its really your chest. How gay is that? We will all be accused of cheating if we dive at any point then run. How are we to know whats a cheat and whats an accident? I do have some solid cheat evidence though, for those wondering....yeah you are fubar and even with your hacks i will bend you over and.......you get the point. Edited February 26, 2007 by CoRe*DmG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 ...because they slide around crouched but looked like they were skating on skate boards. Instead we found this to be an exploit. we still havent figured out the sidewinder prone b.s. then pop up in a split ms and shoot you point blank while you have them scoped in the head. You can run and dive and then when you get back up quickly then you are skating around looking crouched but to you you really are not. Test this and if you cant figure it out then i will show any admins out there....it sucks. I thought the "silent slide exploit" was prevented by the 1.35 patch? (i.e. where you go into a fast completely silent crouched 'skateboard' slide after running and sliding by a certain combination of keystrokes) I've got to test it out again on our server...but what I recall, I could not do it after the 1.35 patch. Also I haven't seen any player use it since 1.35, so I think think that one is fixed. Any way, all movement exploits of this type would have easily been detected by review of replays (if that tool had been available). These movements do not happen by accident, they are highly intentional and is in the same league of cheats/exploits as going outside map or on top of structeres, hills etc which is not intended by the game. PS I'm not sure what you mean about the netspeed and the "aim at head/belly thing". Can you elaborate? All I know that lag issues + possible input lag on LCD can create funny things, e.g. make the hitdetection and sound occur ~3-4 frames 50 ms or so before you see it happen...thus gives you the impression of being shot before you see it all happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCO*AFZ* Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 ...because they slide around crouched but looked like they were skating on skate boards. Instead we found this to be an exploit. we still havent figured out the sidewinder prone b.s. then pop up in a split ms and shoot you point blank while you have them scoped in the head. You can run and dive and then when you get back up quickly then you are skating around looking crouched but to you you really are not. Test this and if you cant figure it out then i will show any admins out there....it sucks. I thought the "silent slide exploit" was prevented by the 1.35 patch? (i.e. where you go into a fast completely silent crouched 'skateboard' slide after running and sliding by a certain combination of keystrokes) I've got to test it out again on our server...but what I recall, I could not do it after the 1.35 patch. Also I haven't seen any player use it since 1.35, so I think think that one is fixed. Any way, all movement exploits of this type would have easily been detected by review of replays (if that tool had been available). These movements do not happen by accident, they are highly intentional and is in the same league of cheats/exploits as going outside map or on top of structeres, hills etc which is not intended by the game. PS I'm not sure what you mean about the netspeed and the "aim at head/belly thing". Can you elaborate? All I know that lag issues + possible input lag on LCD can create funny things, e.g. make the hitdetection and sound occur ~3-4 frames 50 ms or so before you see it happen...thus gives you the impression of being shot before you see it all happen. I know what he means about the netspeed setting... although i didn't know it would effect anything outside the server. We will verify it tonight Peace if you are around. As for the slide. The dive slide was removed with 1.35 patch but it sounds like there is another. Before 1.35 you could run, dive holding forward still peek left then crouch all while holding forward to get into it. you would then slide at whatever your run speed would be and could shoot... but also could be killed . It was obvious and you couldn't reload or switch weapons without coming out of it. We discovered this pre 1.30 patch but it wasn't fixed until 1.35 i do believe. If you know what to look for any exploit is considered cheating and deserves a ban. (or kick if you think it was accidental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRe*DmG Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 (edited) I wouldnt consider it an exploit simply because i have heard people tell me that I did it when i didnt know that i was doing it.....i wonder if we are talking about the same thing. You do make noise, as far as i can hear, I fraps it with a team mate to see what the deal is and you cant even tell that you are doing it yourself. You have to depend on someone else telling you. We all have the 1.35 patch and it still happens consistantly when you dive and then get up and run......or straff. I got used to diving when coming head on to enemies so to avoid this i just programmed it for crouch and i havent heard anyone say its been happening any more. The slithering up stairs is something I have no clue about, I have seen it consistantly from a team (which i wont mention). I have never seen it from anyone else either and ive only seen it from 2 people on that team. Youll know it when you see it cause youll have to lift your jaw off the table as you get ready to respawn. Its just as smooth and fast as the crouched thing only its prone and seemed even faster, had no sound as i watched these guys come to the base of the stairs, and waited for them to come up for me. Even while i was preaiming the corner while on the stairs they were able to slither while prone up the stairs then pop up and shoot me in the head before i could get a single shot off with an H prescoped. I thnk i may have hesistated after seeing them slither like that though. None of that really bothers me though since now that ive seen it then i will look for it. What gets me is that lately I and several of my team mates have been seeing a disappearing act where when the enemy reappears they are scoped on your head and ready to fire. I dont know if this is a hack or a packet loss issue with a server or client, but ide like to know cause lately its been annoying as heck. Have you guys been seeing this? Edited March 1, 2007 by CoRe*DmG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRe*DmG Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Okay, i just reviewed the fraps, keep in mind this is long after the 1.35.....now. It requires no key combo to do, and the person should be told he is doing it cause you cant possilbly tell you are doing it yourself. It can be exploited but is also way to easy to do accidentally. All you have to do is go from prone to standing and run forward while straffing side to side. Thats a pretty common movement for those like you and i that have played long enough to have the keyboard become an extension of our hand. Before i forget, something just came to mind.....since i bout an anti ghosting keyboard (razer tarantula) noone has told me ive been doin it....havent played too much though. Anyway, my recording of teammate show him doing it but his doesnt. Mine shows no sound, his does. I tried to shoot at what looked to be his head in my view but in his view it was really his chest which obviously took more shots to kill. It went both ways to where if you are looking through your own view and doing this exploit then you wont be able to tell. I have recorded others in deathcam though where you could tell through them that they were doing something like this and even in deathcam they made no noise. I assume that with this problem you wont be able to see it in deathcam cause you cant even see it in your own view. We just tell eachother if we are doing it and then smash all the keys down or walk a little to get out of it. Ive accused people of exploiting when i saw them doing it but then it gets pretty annoying when someone says that your doing the same thing and you dont know. Try this with peace, run forward and dive, get up and run forward while straffing left and right. Ubi needs to hire us to play 24/7 like we do so they get all this figured out before they release a game. I was playing for several months before learning that this was happening and why. What map do i have to worry bout people goin on mountains in? Is this an obvious no, no? Or can you easily walk up the mountain? I mean stupid stuff like the bridge in comm station should be banned but things like snipers on the east road mountain in strongpoint should be okay? right? p.s. been making mountain map ) one you can run on purposely! tired of this building warefare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCO*AFZ* Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Okay, i just reviewed the fraps, keep in mind this is long after the 1.35.....now. It requires no key combo to do, and the person should be told he is doing it cause you cant possilbly tell you are doing it yourself. It can be exploited but is also way to easy to do accidentally. All you have to do is go from prone to standing and run forward while straffing side to side. Thats a pretty common movement for those like you and i that have played long enough to have the keyboard become an extension of our hand. Before i forget, something just came to mind.....since i bout an anti ghosting keyboard (razer tarantula) noone has told me ive been doin it....havent played too much though. Anyway, my recording of teammate show him doing it but his doesnt. Mine shows no sound, his does. I tried to shoot at what looked to be his head in my view but in his view it was really his chest which obviously took more shots to kill. It went both ways to where if you are looking through your own view and doing this exploit then you wont be able to tell. I have recorded others in deathcam though where you could tell through them that they were doing something like this and even in deathcam they made no noise. I assume that with this problem you wont be able to see it in deathcam cause you cant even see it in your own view. We just tell eachother if we are doing it and then smash all the keys down or walk a little to get out of it. Ive accused people of exploiting when i saw them doing it but then it gets pretty annoying when someone says that your doing the same thing and you dont know. Try this with peace, run forward and dive, get up and run forward while straffing left and right. Ubi needs to hire us to play 24/7 like we do so they get all this figured out before they release a game. I was playing for several months before learning that this was happening and why. What map do i have to worry bout people goin on mountains in? Is this an obvious no, no? Or can you easily walk up the mountain? I mean stupid stuff like the bridge in comm station should be banned but things like snipers on the east road mountain in strongpoint should be okay? right? p.s. been making mountain map ) one you can run on purposely! tired of this building warefare. We'll test it tonight. That is different then the old slide bug. Diving into ledges and sticking through is confirmed although the timing has to be right. I tried the netspeed thing on our server... didn't seem to have any effect on being hit... although i am local to our server so that may be why and i would not test it on any public server as i would definately see it as cheating. All 3 of these would be a ban on our server normally, but i can see how the slide could be accidental... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAbbi_74 Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 There are more mountains out there that can be climbed. Think about the various hills in the MAYDAYMAYDAY map, and which ones would make most snipers VERY happy to perch upon... The game had many a glitch that wasn't thoroughly exploited by the play test crew and debugged prior to release, even of the latest (1.35) patch. Bummer that support for GRAW seems to have completely evaporated even as that patch was still being released. Bummer. GRiN were otherwise proving a pretty good crew of dev's, but GRAW was declared dead prior to puberty. And that's no way to go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRe*DmG Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 There are more mountains out there that can be climbed. Think about the various hills in the MAYDAYMAYDAY map, and which ones would make most snipers VERY happy to perch upon... The game had many a glitch that wasn't thoroughly exploited by the play test crew and debugged prior to release, even of the latest (1.35) patch. Bummer that support for GRAW seems to have completely evaporated even as that patch was still being released. Bummer. GRiN were otherwise proving a pretty good crew of dev's, but GRAW was declared dead prior to puberty. And that's no way to go... Never really gave the mountains much thought other then using both mayday mayday and the back end of strongpoint in my maps core_uprisingv2tdm night, and core_forestrestreat. I used the climbability of the mountains to justify the map and when you couldnt climb i added shanty fence ramps so you could. I miss the old gr1 style maps, so sick of looking at the same old buildings in graw. Try um out they are in our download section at coreclan.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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