Clearing the Air

[Specter]

Aggressor took his machine in for warranty. If they cant fix it or do it in a timely manner, he gets a new PC.

I have had this talk with Stinger privately, and we have an understanding. I am NOT going to have it with RooK, but I will explain myself here, once and for all, where everyone at the Forum can see, and decide for themselves.

Not everyone has intimate PC Knowledge hardware wise, nor do they want to. They want their PC to work, mostly spending as little as possible, and with as little grief as possible. The test Stinger suggested is fine, but it's inconclusive as far as the entire PSU goes. It doesnt tell you anything except that the fan will work.

That being said, Im going to get on my box for a moment here and explain why I give support the way I do, so RooK can quit bringing up the ATI thing, and those that dont agree can not turn the threads into arguments.

I have 13 years in the IT field, with hands on experience, with Hardware and software, specializing in building Custom machines, servers, and workstations, specializing in OS's and Network conversions. I have built myself over 1100 machines. I have worked for the biggest ISP's in the US in NOC and Tier4 support roles, and have 6 years of networking experience. There. That gets the qualifications out of the way that certain indivduals were questioning.

Now about why I give support the way I do.

I give tech support from a very practical standpoint. There arent as many hardcore build it yourself hardware geeks out there as you might think. Actually the numbers are with the people that buy prebuilt for warranties and such, and service contracts, so that they dont have to mess with it. They dont have the time or the inclination to tear apart PC's all day and learn their inner workings. That is why they ask people like us. When I give support, I ask questions, like whats your budget, what kind of PC, what do you do with it, and how much do you know.

Telling people right off the bat to start jumpering wires, or telling them to buy a new video card just because you dont prefer what they have will alienate you from everyone, and they wont trust you. The perfect example is a thread in tech support about an onboard video card and some missing files. Right away, people were telling this gentleman that his vidseo is the problem, buy a new card, when it has been fine for a year and a half, and the game just stopped working. Why tell someone to buy a video card, when you havent even looked at detailed info about the problem yet, or asked him any questions? In this case he has some OS, HDD space issues that need to be addressed, and he will be back in the game.

Where experience comes in is you have seen this before, talked to many, many people and customers, and you are willing to learn from others.

Im not saying at all that Stinger or RooK dont know what they are saying. In the post about Major PC problems, there just werent enough questions asked before advice given out, and that can cost someone alot of money, and a great deal of grief, then they wont want to ask for help again. Im not in this to argue with people. I like helping people, and if I see where someone hasnt covered a base totally and I see something that will save grief and money, I will speak up. It isnt a personal attack as someone in that thread stated, and started jumping down everyone's throat.

The point of the matter is this. Im not perfect, I dont know everything, and I do make mistakes. But I am willing to keep an open mind, ask questions of people that do know, and I will admit it if I dont know, or I make a mistake. I will also bend over backwards to find someone the answer they need. If I dont know it, and there is alot I dont know, I know who to ask, or where to find it. Because in IT, you cant know it all, no matter how good you think you are. There is simply too much info, and it changes too fast. I have done so several times throughout my membership here at GR.net. That being said, in 13 years I have seen alot more than someone has seen in a year. I am not calling anyone dumb, or putting them down in any way. I have worked on a great deal more equipment. And believe it or not, I have learned from Stinger, and we are getting on just fine. But when I see that something is going to cause aggravation or cost money, or is confusing someone when they need help, I will say something.

That being said, I would like to ask everyone a favor please. If you dont agree with what I or someone else offer someone, fine. Dont make it an attack as was done in Aggressor's thread. ASK whoever why. Everyone will learn from it including me if we discuss it instead of bring up things like Quote RooK,"phantom still thinks AMD's overheat", and I had to help phantom with an ATI card", which is a perfect example of me admitting I dont know it all, by the way.

Keep the personal attacks to yourself. All they do is hijack threads, confuse people, and ###### them off. They have enough aggravation already because they have a problem and their machine isnt working. If someone wants to know why I advised the way I did, or they have questions about what I say, just ask me, or whoever it may be. Personal attacks, and that kindergarten behavior shouldnt have a place here. It should be about helping and learning, and having a good time.

I am stepping off my soapbox now, and now everyone in the forum can see where Im coming from, and why I offer support the way I do. Buying the latest and greatest hardware, which seems to be the most popular popular solution given in the computer forum. It isnt nearly as often as viable an answer for everyone as you might think. If a program worked, and isnt anymore, then something changed, and buying hardware isnt the answer. And, contrary to popular belief, most people just cant run out and buy new cards and PC's all the time, they need to make do with what they have. This should be kept in mind for all tech support, and PC support questions.

The key is ask.

Im done now.

If their are any personal attacks coming, I'll lock my thread. That isnt why I posted this.

But any civilized feedback, discussion or debate is welcome, and very much appreciated.

[Kamakazi]

Just to put in my 2.45434cents

I like the way you handle things if helps the people like me that have 3 pennies in there pockets and cant buy anything

[dekela]

of all the threads i have read where you have given advice i have found it to have been done in a polite and thought out manner. heck, it was advice from you to another member that i read that actually got gr working on my 'puter. keep up the good work and the good advice, ###### what others may think or feel.

cheers......

[snakebite1967]

Phantom has helped me for well over 2 years showing patience and an ability to explain in english what needs to be done.

that said i dont make a habit of bashing ppl on this forum or getting involved in arguments id prefer ppl to get along and help each other help ppl get the most out of this game and computing on the whole.

keep up the work Phantom see ya on the battlefield soon bro

[supasniper]

I agree with what has been said, phantom has helped me and so many others with tech probs. Keep up the good work bud

[tecmic]

Hi Phantom,

Absolutely no problem with what you say, a logical and sensible approach to problem solving. (wish I'd thought of it!)

Your passing reference to the CTD & missing files thread prompted me to comment.

I was in IT for 23 years but mainframes/communications but I've been messing around with PC's since 89. Building, dismantling, problem solving etc. and accumulated a reasonable knowledge, admittedly, self taught but the principles and architectural components are common whether mainframe or PC. You probably have the edge due to what sounds like your commercial involvement with PC's and I will freely admit to wanting to stay 'current' with my system but I still have to pace myself, financially.

As to replacing the vid card. I genuinely considered the card in question to be very low spec. for GR based on my experience and I didn't analyse his logs because I knew you were on the case!!!

Seriously, I bow to your superior knowledge. It's difficult to identify who yer dealing with through this medium sometimes cos a few 'buzz words' thrown in the conversation make it sound like the author has in-depth knowledge.

Those that have are quickly exposed and bring enormous value to these forums.

M.

[Specter]

@tecmic

Hey bro. It isnt superior knowledge man. Im not superior to anyone. Im not in it for the credit, or to build a reputation. I just like helping people, and have been doing so over mediums like forums and email and telephone for years. It's just learning over the years what kinds of questions to ask, and how to read what the poster has posed to you, and if they are a newbie, posing the answer in simple terms for them to read.

As for the video card in the afore mentioned thread. I agree it is strictly low end, and not ideal. But it was getting the job done for him, and wasnt the cause of the issue. If it worked for a year and a half, and just stopped all of the sudden, but everything else still works, his video wasnt the issue, and he didnt have money to spend, so I just concentrated on the issue, and looking for the cause of it. I totally agree a new card is definitely in order, but for his current needs and wants, it wasnt the answer he needed. His Video chip wasnt losing GR files, which was the cause of his problem, along with some XP issues.

Like I said in my post bro. I look at it from an extremely paractical point of view. It isnt that replacing the card was bad advice. I even recommended it in a post in that thread. But the main issue was getting GR going again, and it worked with what he had. His onbard video has 4 MB of RAM, so yes, at first glance, its easy to blame the video, but that video also reserves an additional 16 or 32 MB of System RAM for use with video, so it met the minimum requirements easily.

Its simply a matter of asking the right questions. I am not smarter or better than anyone else. In fact, I learn alot about new hardware and such from all people who post here. everyone has something to offer and something to learn from. That is what my post was about. That and where I get my info, and why I post the way I do came into question, and I just wanted everyone to know why. That's all. ALot of what I know also, I get from people here.

And I wanted to also stress the fact that support and helping people in forums like this isnt a competition, at least for me. I just like doing it. I was just hoping that maybe by making this post, it would end some of the personal attacks, and the competition that seems to go on, that way, we can all learn more, and have more fun doing it. That's all.

There are alot of questions and support posts that I know nothing about that I wont post in because I dont know, or havent worked with that particular equipment or software. But I do read all the posts, and even take notes and do the research so that I can learn and will know. I love working with PC's. I want to know as much as I can. And the forums here are a great way to do that. Especially with the membership we have here at gr.net. It really is a great group of people for the most part. Very intelligent, and a great deal of fun to be around and talk to. And there is alot of combined knowledge at this site, and alot is learned because for the most part, there is no flaming or insulting like goes on at alot of public forums on the net, not usually anyway.

[tecmic]

We're on the same frequency, I enjoy solving problems too but I'm often criticised for being impatient. It's is good to be in a position to help and learn from those with greater knowledge. Hope I can in the future.

ps Don't knock your value to others. Modesty is a virtue but not if it prevents recognition where its due.

M.

[warhawk]

If I were to post what I were thinking I would only rehash what Phantom has already said. Like Phantom I too have had the oppertunity to experience the world of IT through serveral levels of employment. In fact, at one point unbeknownst to us, Phantom and I even chewed up some of the same corporate ground. I will simply say that when Phantom gives advice people should listen. You don't necessarily have to take it as gospel, I don't think even Phantom himself would tell you to, but you can bet it is the closet correct answer you are going to find. Phantom and I have had this conversation before in private and we both agree that if either of us did in fact know it all then Bill Gates himself would be begging us to work for him or we would be independantly wealthy. The fact that I rarely post a solution is because more often than not Phantom has read the post first and given the appropriate answer.

Phantom you may not want to pat your own back but I will do it for you. Keep up the great work you are doing and hopefully I will never have to upstage you. You know I would never let you live it down.

Stout Hearts

Warhawk

[RooK]

I'm sorry that you didn't feel you could PM me before starting this topic (or why this topic should even exist) as it is nothing more than another personal attack set to a broader scheme. So, I took the initiative to get into contact with you via PM, and upon recieving your reply, I was going to write you back again today only to find out you had disabled PMs (or just mine) from being sent to you. I thought that we might could work this out privately, but apparently that won't ever happen. If two disagree and one refuses to communicate, nothing can be done, not even an agreement to disagree. I also tried the ICQ link, but apparently ICQ has suspended 'outside' messenging. Once again, I'm sorry that you didn't feel we could handle this privately, and now probably never will.

[warhawk]

@Rook

You know I reread Phantom's post a couple of times after reading your last statement. I fail to see where he personally attacked you. What do you mean to accomplish by airing the fact out in public that you cannot privately contact him? If it's to get him to allow you to do so I dare say that wouldn't be the way to go about it. Rather I would think, and I sure once a staff member or an Admin see's your post they will give you more direct advice, that if you have a problem with one of the consultants or staff members or even an admin that you might try contacting Rocky privately instead or another admin or staff member.

You accuse Phantom of doing something that he is not then you seem to come out and publicly attack a consultant. I can tell you from first hand experience what happens to those that do that. Fortunately, and yes I consider it fortunate that I can once again come to these forums, I was able to resolve my situation. Unless you are at a point that you don't care you might want to back off. But hey I'm a no body around here so you do as you please.

Stout Hearts

Warhawk

[Specter]

This wasnt posted to air laundry, but for constructive criticism.

I want to thank everyone who had something constructive to add. I greatly value you guys' input.

Thank you.