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[kleaneasy]

So how exactly were we supposed to take this, klean?

You were supposed to read the entire article including the Q&A further down you didn’t screen cap where it says

Q: Are there other ways to access the beta?

A: Currently, buying Tom Clancy’s Splinter Cell Conviction guarantees access to the beta, while supplies last. Other beta access may be unveiled in the future.

I’m not disputing with anyone that reading any of the beta info in part might lead you to think conviction was the only way to gain access, but in any aspect of life you need to read all the print, and we didn’t hide the fact other methods would likely be available. All of my posts at Ubi said that.

[Kimi]

Right now, the only other way to access the beta was announced this week for US folks. You need to shell out $5 to pre-order the game at GameStop. But, lots of people don't want to give GameStop even $5 of their money so at least they had the option to hold onto their SCC copy that could have been purchased at Target, Amazon, Best Buy or any of the other game retailers.

If you had purchased SCC and also intended its purchase to give you access to the beta, you're still OK right? You got a game that you hopefully enjoyed playing, however short of a time it may have been for you. I won't go into game length and re-selling finished games back to retailers that offer used games, because those are whole other cans of worms that I shouldn't be touching.

I'm sorry for those who have felt misled, but we clearly stated from the very beginning that there WAS a possibility for other ways to access the beta to open up in the future.

[ApexMods]

Right now, the only other way to access the beta was announced this week for US folks. You need to shell out $5 to pre-order the game at GameStop. But, lots of people don't want to give GameStop even $5 of their money so at least they had the option to hold onto their SCC copy that could have been purchased at Target, Amazon, Best Buy or any of the other game retailers.

If you had purchased SCC and also intended its purchase to give you access to the beta, you're still OK right? You got a game that you hopefully enjoyed playing, however short of a time it may have been for you. I won't go into game length and re-selling finished games back to retailers that offer used games, because those are whole other cans of worms that I shouldn't be touching.

I'm sorry for those who have felt misled, but we clearly stated from the very beginning that there WAS a possibility for other ways to access the beta to open up in the future.

So then what was 'exclusive' about the beta access through SCC?

[Bota:16]

Why would UBI go into an agreement with a company that costs UBI money from them selling used games? That would be like UBI partnering with The Pirate Bay for the PC release. From a publisher standpoint I don't see a difference between piracy and used games. Both allow someone to experience a product without the publisher/developer getting a cut.

[MeanMF]

Why would UBI go into an agreement with a company that costs UBI money from them selling used games?

Because they have over 5,000 retail stores and a 25% share of the market...

[Bota:16]

So if UBI doesn't do the beta partnership, Gamestop won't sell their game? Highly unlikely. The partnership only serves Gamestop's interest as I'm sure Gamestop forked out some $$ in order to do this. Gamestop needs UBI, EA, Activision, etc. more than they need Gamestop. Why wouldn't UBI just make any pre-order at a major retailer (Best Buy, Walmart, Target, etc.) elgible for the beta access promo?

[Johnny]

Kimi,when it was announced why not just say there will be other methods of getting it instead of saying we "may" be able to? You guys knew there would be other ways when you said that,not everyone knows it was likely to happen.Also we are supposed to believe that the "beta" is to improve the game.If Im on PC what kind of message do you think that sends to the rest of us? To me it says that our platforms obviously arent as important.If this beta is to actually improve the game then why is it on just one platform?

[kleaneasy]

Kimi,when it was announced why not just say there will be other methods of getting it instead of saying we "may" be able to? You guys knew there would be other ways when you said that,not everyone knows it was likely to happen.

Probably because at the time they didn’t know themselves what if any other methods would be available. You look at the pre order offer which has just come out, Ubi and the company in question may very well have been discussing it for some time but that was never a guarantee it would actually happen. There have been many occasions when ideas have been discussed at great length and for long periods, countless meetings etc. Then just when you think its a sure thing it falls through.

Bearing that in mind now look at it from another view point, suppose Kimi confirmed there would be other methods to access the beta, you decide not to buy SCC because you were already debating between rental and buying and now you know you can get on the beta you’ll just rent/ borrow it. Meanwhile behind closed doors the other discussions fall through and Ubi don’t come up with any other method to access the beta in time to get someone like you in the system.

Ultimately as annoying as it is sometimes we just can’t commit to something as fact and have to use terms like ‘may’ because we never really know what will have in the meantime.

[MeanMF]

The partnership only serves Gamestop's interest as I'm sure Gamestop forked out some $$ in order to do this.

It might be monetary, but it could also be things like favorable product placement, posters, promotions, etc in their stores. Ubi and other publishers don't want to put Gamestop out of business at all - they just want a cut of the used game market. EA is already doing this with their "VIP" codes that you get with the game (BF2:BC and Mass Effect 2 have this) - no code, no free DLC. So if you buy the game pre-owned, you need to spend $10 to get a code to get the DLC. So EA still gets their cut.

You can bet that soon enough Gamestop will start bundling codes with preowned copies of the games. They're already talking about throwing in MS Points cards so you can buy the code on your own. So Gamestop will make their money, the publisher gets their cut, and you can still sell your old games. Everybody is (relatively) happy.

[Johnny]

First of all, I said Kimi,not Kleaneasy.Your response is nothing more than mine,which is just an opinion.Kimi is actually part of the game. I want to hear her responses.Secondly Klean I would hope you know thats bs as far as them not knowing about the preorders.Unless Ubi has some super secret and different method for doing preorders with Gamestop.Why not answer some real questions? Like why the beta is on Xbox only? I just want some real answers to some real questions.I want to know why the xbox needs a "beta" and we dont. Sorry for seeming harsh but this is getting ridiculous with all the "acting like this didnt happen" talk.

[kleaneasy]

First of all, I said Kimi,not Kleaneasy.Your response is nothing more than mine,which is just an opinion.Kimi is actually part of the game. I want to hear her responses.Secondly Klean I would hope you know thats bs as far as them not knowing about the preorders.Unless Ubi has some super secret and different method for doing preorders with Gamestop.Why not answer some real questions? Like why the beta is on Xbox only? I just want some real answers to some real questions.I want to know why the xbox needs a "beta" and we dont. Sorry for seeming harsh but this is getting ridiculous with all the "acting like this didnt happen" talk.

Actually its not an opinion, its based on my experience within Ubisoft which granted is not as extensive as Kimis but experience none the less.

That said I'm not really sure why you're asking me for answers to questions having already told me my responses hold no weight

[Johnny]

Those questions werent for you.I didnt ask you anything.Please feel free to answer my question about the "beta" though.Im sure you wont say what you actually think,but thats expected I guess.Its a simple question really.Like I said,it wasnt for you but feel free to answer it.Try to remember youre not talking to 10 year olds before you give your explanation.Im just curious to see the responses to be honest.I know I wont see a real answer.

[kleaneasy]

Sorry, when you said 'why not answer some real questions' in a post directed at me I had thought they were for me. Clearly not...... my mistake.

Before I put my foot in it further as you seem convinced I keep doing perhaps you can clarify exactly which question on the beta you mean, after all answering the ones you don't want me to gets me into trouble

On a side note, I'm very familiar with the GR community both here and at Ubi, and know very well you're not 10 years old nor would I talk to you like you are.

[Johnny]

Lol I know and Ive always liked you but I also know you see exactly whats going on.You empathise with your company way more than the community,even if it was wrong by the company.Atleast thats how you come off to me.Which is understandable I guess.The beta was used to push "Splinter Cell".It was also put in peoples minds it will be the only way to get it, through SCC.Regardless if it was posted that there might be a "chance" of getting it some other way down the road,it was obviously not said in conjunction with various other forms of advertisement,for obvious reasons.Yeah it was posted on the Ubi forums for the 8 people there to see.

Anyway,I was talking about the question pertaining to the beta being on just one platform.If this so called beta is to get feedback and better the game then why is it on just one platform?

[kleaneasy]

Lol I know and Ive always liked you but I also know you see exactly whats going on.You empathise with your company way more than the community,even if it was wrong by the company.

Couldnt be further from the truth, trust me you've not seem my reports lol

Anyway,I was talking about the question pertaining to the beta being on just one platform.If this so called beta is to get feedback and better the game then why is it on just one platform?

Honest answer is I have no idea, and if it were my primary platform that wasn't getting the beta I'd be pretty unhappy to say the least so I know why thats annoying people.

[Johnny]

Well I obviously dont know what your reports say.Im just going off what Ive seen lately.I know what youve done to try and help,especially with R6.Its not even my platform thats not getting it.I have all the platforms but Wii.I just care about my community is all.Im not saying you dont but maybe you should act like the Wii is the only one getting the beta.

The question wont be answered, even by people who do know.I would like to think most here already know the answer lol.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Johnny

[kleaneasy]

Well I obviously dont know what your reports say.Im just going off what Ive seen lately.I know what youve done to try and help,especially with R6.Its not even my platform thats not getting it.I have all the platforms but Wii.I just care about my community is all.Im not saying you dont but maybe you should act like the Wii is the only one getting the beta.

My job has two main aspects (in no particular order) communicating information to the community as and when it’s available, seeking answers to questions, raising issues etc and ensuring the communities voice is heard, that your opinions on the games and all aspects of them are known by Ubisoft. I have no control over what happens once that information’s been passed on but work hard to ensure the voice is heard as do the other forum managers.

IF I were to allow my own opinion and emotions to filter into that I wouldn’t be doing my job properly in any way shape or form, so yes I may seem less concerned than you might like at times but it’s not because I don’t care or because I’m not understanding the issues or getting your opinions across. It’s simply because in order to ensure the communities voice is heard accurately I have to leave my own feeling out of the equation

[Johnny]

I know.Im just frustrated.Ive been doing this forum thing for too long.Maybe its time for a break.

[ApexMods]

Right now, the only other way to access the beta was announced this week for US folks. You need to shell out $5 to pre-order the game at GameStop. But, lots of people don't want to give GameStop even $5 of their money so at least they had the option to hold onto their SCC copy that could have been purchased at Target, Amazon, Best Buy or any of the other game retailers.

If you had purchased SCC and also intended its purchase to give you access to the beta, you're still OK right? You got a game that you hopefully enjoyed playing, however short of a time it may have been for you. I won't go into game length and re-selling finished games back to retailers that offer used games, because those are whole other cans of worms that I shouldn't be touching.

I'm sorry for those who have felt misled, but we clearly stated from the very beginning that there WAS a possibility for other ways to access the beta to open up in the future.

So then what was 'exclusive' about the beta access through SCC?

Another question that hasn't been answered.

[MeanMF]

So then what was 'exclusive' about the beta access through SCC?

Another question that hasn't been answered.

It was the "exclusive" means for getting into the beta, right up until the point when it wasn't.

[Rocky]

First of all, I said Kimi,not Kleaneasy.Your response is nothing more than mine,which is just an opinion.Kimi is actually part of the game. I want to hear her responses.

I am quoting you Johnny, but this is a reminder to the entire thread; please be respectful of other members whether you agree or disagree. Kleaneasy and Kimi are both Ubisoft employees, but you will notice they do a lot of posting in their own time, to try and explain decisions that they did not make.

Please try to remain civil when putting your point across, nobody from Ubisoft is obliged to answer any of your questions here, reading some of the rather "demanding" posts above, I think some of you need reminded of that.

Thank you.

[ApexMods]

So then what was 'exclusive' about the beta access through SCC?

Another question that hasn't been answered.

It was the "exclusive" means for getting into the beta, right up until the point when it wasn't.

I see. BTW - this is an exclusive chance to read one of my posts!

And here's yet another exclusive chance to read one of my posts.

[Johnny]

I understand they didnt make them.I also appreciate them both for posting,always have.I dont appreciate tough questions being asked and not answered.My question is a tough question,one not easily dodged with careful wording.Truth will set you free but wont always make you money I guess.Ubi has been doing this for too long.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Johnny

[ApexMods]

First of all, I said Kimi,not Kleaneasy.Your response is nothing more than mine,which is just an opinion.Kimi is actually part of the game. I want to hear her responses.

I am quoting you Johnny, but this is a reminder to the entire thread; please be respectful of other members whether you agree or disagree. Kleaneasy and Kimi are both Ubisoft employees, but you will notice they do a lot of posting in their own time, to try and explain decisions that they did not make.

Please try to remain civil when putting your point across, nobody from Ubisoft is obliged to answer any of your questions here, reading some of the rather "demanding" posts above, I think some of you need reminded of that.

Thank you.

I agree that Kleaneasy and Kimi take too much heat for the mess-ups of their corporate masters, and I understand they are in the very difficult position to serve both Ubisoft and the community. What's really ticking me off is the cowardice of the upper Ubisoft echelons to remain completely silent back there in their ivory tower while all the forums face a perfect storm of more and more enraged customers and (former) fans. Isn't there at least one suit at Ubisoft with the balls to face us and provide answers?!? Even if we don't like them - but answers for crying out loud!

Of course, I don't blame Klean or Kimi for this horrid state of affairs - they have their orders and are forced to follow them whether they like it or not. While they are the only ones talking to the community at all, sadly they don't actually have anything to talk about, because apparently Ubisoft management does not want them to. So why have forums and community managers in the first place when they are not allowed to do their job? Is it just for keeping up appearances of two-way communication when in fact nothing gets through to the French overlords anymore?

I believe Klean when she says that she reports community feedback to Ubisoft management. But is there any reaction at all? Does it make a iota of difference what those reports contain? From the outcomes we get to see I would have to say: No! So why bother, anymore? Maybe that's how Ubisoft plans to silence us all: By simply sitting it out until every last vocal critic has given up and moved on. Or (more likely) they are just incompetent fools running a legendary franchise into the ground and wasting away one of the most closely-knit gaming communities ever without even noticing.

Let's face it - Ubisoft's GR:FS developers give interviews to every Tom, Dick, and Harry out there, but here at the center of the Ghost Recon community (or over at the wastelands known as the official forums for that matter) they have not so much as posted a single word. What does this tell you about Ubisoft's concern for the community?

[NoQuarter]

Much ado about nothing.

The trials and travails of a marketing campaign...whether Ubi is just snakebit or this is a self-inflicted wound doesn't really matter -what does is what could happen down the line -such as...

:FS logo'd Pajamas and bed sheet sets sourced from child labor sweat shops causing an uproar, or :FS logo'd Lunch box/thermos sets having to be recalled due to higher than usual Candium levels.

Imagine the outrage.