Mission editor

[Kurtz]

I don't see a mission editor to build new missions or campaigns. Is that correct? You can build MP maps and [GR] firefight/recon maps, but not missions with different objectives, enemy, objects,etc. Or am I wrong?

[Buehgler_AS]

@Kurtz, you are basically correct. Although there are hints and possabilities about how you can overcome this and construct something that looks a bit like a missions, but I am yet to see much hope of producing anything that is even close to what I would call a tourney quality GR mission. Certainly the editor that has been delivered is no where near as functional as Igor was -- script editing must be done by hand on raw XML now. Fundamentally, it seems to me that the scripting language used by the new engine is significantly limited in comparison to the GR engine. Add to that the fact that the documentation is limited or non-existant and things get murkier. However, this is all from my exploration and some trial and error -- I hope I am wrong, but I have not seen much evidence to indicate that yet

[Kurtz]

How would you do briefings, they are all oral script. How would you set and mark objectives? Could you use tanks and helis and script them? I really think that all you can do is build firefight/recon gametypes, not missions.

[fr1j0l3]

How would you do briefings, they are all oral script. How would you set and mark objectives? Could you use tanks and helis and script them? I really think that all you can do is build firefight/recon gametypes, not missions.

Alll the vehicle scripting and more is now available.

Heli orders, feel free to experiment.

<element type="OrderHeli" vehicle_id="heli_name " order="move" position="0 0 2000" speed="0.2" target="true" start_time="12"/>

<element type="OrderHeli" vehicle_id="heli_name " order="land" position="0 0 2000" speed="0.5" target="false" start_time="15"/>

<element type="OrderHeli" vehicle_id="heli_name" order="target" position0 0 2000" speed="0.8" start_time="15"/>

<element type="SetTransportType" vehicle_id="heli_name" transport_type="insertion" start_time="16"/>

<element type="SetHeliStand" vehicle_id="heli_name" start_time="30.0"/>

<element type="SetHeliDropRope" vehicle_id="heli_name" start_time="32"/>

<element type="SetHeliDrop" vehicle_id="heli_name" start_time="35"/>

[sui317]

in the tutorial they hint that you can script missions like sp

but that can be my misunderstanding

i know you can have some improv. missions (multiple objectives ) but i can be easily satisfied and or creative

[Buehgler_AS]

I think briefings are hugely problematic in GRAW, adding objective markers (like SP) I think is possible. Tanks and Helos are clearly possible. "Real" reactive scripting complely evades me at this point

[sui317]

can you mod the hud to show ingame briefings ?

so you do not know in the beginning when chosing a load what is to be ?

then ingame you get intel, and move from there

[fr1j0l3]

I think briefings are hugely problematic in GRAW, adding objective markers (like SP) I think is possible. Tanks and Helos are clearly possible. "Real" reactive scripting complely evades me at this point

The more I wade thru the XML, the more I think may be possible.

For "reactive" how about use something similar to how they used warnings to get back in teh mission area?

		<event name="mc_01_back">

			<element type="UnitInArea" area="mc_01_warn" state="activate"/>			

			<element type="UnitInArea" area="mc_01_back" state="deactivate"/>

			<element type="UnitInArea" area="mc_01_fail" state="deactivate"/>			

		</event>

The only SUPER tricky crap I see right now are

-mission briefings ( easily goten around if you do an audio briefing)

-Scorekeeping. (the only variables I've seen so far contain true false stuff)

-4-player limit. (I'll try my damndest to get over this limit, but it may be unforgiving)

Even still, I could see an alpha tourney based on 4 man squads. Makes stealth a whole lot easier.

And I can't remember where, but I could have SWORN I saw a anti-personnell mine commented out in one of these XML files.... (hat-tip to Chavez)

[Big]

About briefings:

Audio is not an option, why?

Cause not everybody understands english(or the language selected) when people talks it.

U have to give time to players to read and understand the briefing and what they have to do during the missions.

Thats why the loading screen briefing is not an option either. There is no way u can discuss anything cause u only see the text for 1-2 mins.

Briefings should be given before the weapons selection screen, to choose what u want its better for that mission.

When u receive the briefing u should be able to scroll through the text, so u can read again any part if u need it.

Edited September 14, 2006 by bati_gol_20

[DiGiTALY -TC-]

guys about this briefing thing..

1- you can start the mission with your squad in a vehicle

2- they arrive on the target zone

3- you can briefing them with custom videos, vocal msgs and subtitles

4- after the briefing they exit the vehicle

5- the same vehicle, another vehicle or a custom object (weapons crates?) is triggered to give 'em the option to upgrade their gear according to the briefing information

I'm 100% sure of this? nope, just 90% coz I had no time to test so let's wait for a grin to confirm it

[Big]

I thought about that too but didnt want to post it: D

As u can read in my previous post, the video-sound its useless cause of the language problems (great for atmosphere anyways).

The text: u have to be able to read it all the times u want before start the mission, so u can prepare a plan. U need 5-10 minutes for that.

[DiGiTALY -TC-]

I thought about that too but didnt want to post it: D

As u can read in my previous post, the video-sound its useless cause of the language problems (great for atmosphere anyways).

The text: u have to be able to read it all the times u want before start the mission, so u can prepare a plan. U need 5-10 minutes for that.

can't you use the tact map for it? there's a map with a grid and an icon linked to screen objective.. you can discuss all the time you need and make the mission start when you exit from the safe zone

[Big]

Is there a tactmap on the [GR] 12 players game?

To me it looks like the MP TvT games where u cant do anything.

Maybe im wrong, i dont know.

If we are talking about 4 guys missions i dont mind, cause we cant play that since we are more than 4 friends

I think that AS guys and me are talking about missions for >4 players. We dont look for other things.

[DiGiTALY -TC-]

I've started a lan [GR] coop with only one beautiful player and if I press "m" I have a tact map

[Big]

nice chat we are having

Ok great, i guess i always used the TAB (stupid guy)

Then If u can place text there the briefing text is solved (more or less)

[DiGiTALY -TC-]

it's ok, you don't wanna know how late I've noticed the chat was on while in deathcam mode

so if I wasn't under the effect of some drug and if grin confirm the validity of those 5 points, I think the briefing issue is solved, what's next?

[Buehgler_AS]

The more I wade thru the XML, the more I think may be possible.

For "reactive" how about use something similar to how they used warnings to get back in teh mission area?

		<event name="mc_01_back">

			<element type="UnitInArea" area="mc_01_warn" state="activate"/>			

			<element type="UnitInArea" area="mc_01_back" state="deactivate"/>

			<element type="UnitInArea" area="mc_01_fail" state="deactivate"/>			

		</event>

Indeed the ability to "trigger" script blocks is obviously there. The problem I am seeing is with what you can trigger. All I have seen is triggering of new tangos being spawned or "mission events", I have not seen a single example of telling a tango to go do something new. In fact the plan and ROE that an AI utilizes are bound to their creation. So I do not think we can even tell an "idle" AI to become aggressive as a result of his budies getting killed

The only SUPER tricky crap I see right now are

-mission briefings ( easily goten around if you do an audio briefing)

-Scorekeeping. (the only variables I've seen so far contain true false stuff)

-4-player limit. (I'll try my damndest to get over this limit, but it may be unforgiving)

Briefings would need to be done out of game (IMO).

We have confirmation from Grin that there are no variables, and for the way I script that elimineates a lot more than just scoring

There have been many hours spent on the 4-player issue in GRAW coop to no avail. But if the only difference between GRAW coop and GRAW [GR] mode is the loss of TL and crosscomm crud, then it may not be a big issue. But I have not yet spent the time to try building a "real objective" (e.g. C4 demo) into an [GR] coop map, and I am afraid that since demo and resupply, and... in the SP and coop mission must be triggered by the TL we are probably out of luck w.r.t. getting them into an [GR] map/mission.

Even still, I could see an alpha tourney based on 4 man squads. Makes stealth a whole lot easier.

And I can't remember where, but I could have SWORN I saw a anti-personnell mine commented out in one of these XML files.... (hat-tip to Chavez)

From what I have seen, there are very few opportunities for stealth in GRAW. Either the AI see you or they do not. They do not seem to hear much, and certainly do not care much about the guy next to them getting killed. If we can not change the plans that the AI are using, there is no way to populate a map with idle AI who become aggressive when the players break stealth -- well short of respawning a whole new batch of AI, but that is sure to be EXTREMLY ugly in a variety of ways.

[fr1j0l3]

Ugly indeed.

I'm just trying to brainstorm. Never tried XML scripting before, and maybe there are other real "scripts" that we can embed in places.

There's a whole architecture of user/event/action that I don't fully "get" yet.. maybe there's some flexiblity.

[Tinker]

The more I wade thru the XML, the more I think may be possible.

For "reactive" how about use something similar to how they used warnings to get back in teh mission area?

		<event name="mc_01_back">

			<element type="UnitInArea" area="mc_01_warn" state="activate"/>			

			<element type="UnitInArea" area="mc_01_back" state="deactivate"/>

			<element type="UnitInArea" area="mc_01_fail" state="deactivate"/>			

		</event>

[/code]

Indeed the ability to "trigger" script blocks is obviously there.  The problem I am seeing is with what you can trigger.  All I have seen is triggering of new tangos being spawned or "mission events", I have not seen a single example of telling a tango to go do something new.  In fact the plan and ROE that an AI utilizes are bound to their creation.  So I do not think we can even tell an "idle" AI to become aggressive as a result of his budies getting killed 



The only SUPER tricky crap I see right now are 

   -mission briefings ( easily goten around if you do an audio briefing)

   -Scorekeeping. (the only variables I've seen so far contain true false stuff)

   -4-player limit. (I'll try my damndest to get over this limit, but it may be unforgiving)


Briefings would need to be done out of game (IMO).  

We have confirmation from Grin that there are no variables, and for the way I script that elimineates a lot more than just scoring 

There have been many hours spent on the 4-player issue in GRAW coop to no avail.  But if the only difference between GRAW coop and GRAW [GR] mode is the loss of TL and crosscomm crud, then it may not be a big issue. But I have not yet spent the time to try building a "real objective" (e.g. C4 demo) into an [GR] coop map, and I am afraid that since demo and resupply, and... in the SP and coop mission must be triggered by the TL we are probably out of luck w.r.t. getting them into an [GR] map/mission.



Even still, I could see an alpha tourney based on 4 man squads. Makes stealth a whole lot easier.


And I can't remember where, but I could have SWORN I saw a anti-personnell mine commented out in one of these XML files....  (hat-tip to Chavez)


From what I have seen, there are very few opportunities for stealth in GRAW.  Either the AI see you or they do not.  They do not seem to hear much, and certainly do not care much about the guy next to them getting killed.  If we can not change the plans that the AI are using, there is no way to populate a map with idle AI who become aggressive when the players break stealth -- well short of respawning a whole new batch of AI, but that is sure to be EXTREMLY ugly in a variety of ways.




You could make the 1 mission, but once you have played it, well, gone!


Stealth could be ok scattering only minor enemy in the first semi maybe, but were`s the fun in that?


Back to Igor for me, i hope for more patches or maybe an expansion pk.


Good post Bueghler_AS


 

[}PW{ Postal]

Indeed the ability to "trigger" script blocks is obviously there. The problem I am seeing is with what you can trigger. All I have seen is triggering of new tangos being spawned or "mission events", I have not seen a single example of telling a tango to go do something new. In fact the plan and ROE that an AI utilizes are bound to their creation. So I do not think we can even tell an "idle" AI to become aggressive as a result of his budies getting killed

I have had 10 AI spawn..semi near eachother and all were set as Idle. When i attacked one..the others became very aggresive...they would attack and move to flank me.

[EricJ]

@Kurtz, you are basically correct. Although there are hints and possabilities about how you can overcome this and construct something that looks a bit like a missions, but I am yet to see much hope of producing anything that is even close to what I would call a tourney quality GR mission. Certainly the editor that has been delivered is no where near as functional as Igor was -- script editing must be done by hand on raw XML now. Fundamentally, it seems to me that the scripting language used by the new engine is significantly limited in comparison to the GR engine. Add to that the fact that the documentation is limited or non-existant and things get murkier. However, this is all from my exploration and some trial and error -- I hope I am wrong, but I have not seen much evidence to indicate that yet

Well, I've figured out some basics, group names, etc. from modding existing missions, the scripting part I'm REAL shaky with, but Rocky is planning to link a tut I've done so far, but then again, I've done less exploration myself after writing it.

Well they have some set "ROE" when assigning a patrol, stuff like "Moveguard Recon" and "Moveguard Idle". "Loop Idle" and "Loop Recon", and "Pingpong Idle" and "Pingpong Recon" just off the top of my head. I noticed that in "Moveguard Recon" they tend to run, so my train of thought:

Moveguard: Move to a position to guard an area. They tend to run on Recon setting. Probably more or less a Recon By Fire ROE if anything. Idle for any probabably means they walk to it, and just hang out, not sure since most of the time they're aggressive anyways.

Loop: Patrols only, goes hand in hand, Loop Recon means they run, Idle, they just take they're time.

Pingpong: Assumption being they just go at a random area and do it either running OR walking (semi-random patrolling).

Ugly indeed.

I'm just trying to brainstorm. Never tried XML scripting before, and maybe there are other real "scripts" that we can embed in places.

There's a whole architecture of user/event/action that I don't fully "get" yet.. maybe there's some flexiblity.

"friendly2" seems to be a reference from some mission. Methinks of course that it's like Igor, you reference "friendly2" as the Player Squad/Team/Platoon (obviously Platoon being the [GR] reference), so once set, there's a way of referencing the player team as "UnitInArea", where somehow the Player Squad is referred to as "UnitInArea", if that makes any real sense...

Edited September 15, 2006 by EricJ

[IrishStout]

"friendly2" seems to be a reference from some mission. Methinks of course that it's like Igor, you reference "friendly2" as the Player Squad/Team/Platoon (obviously Platoon being the [GR] reference), so once set, there's a way of referencing the player team as "UnitInArea", where somehow the Player Squad is referred to as "UnitInArea", if that makes any real sense...

I honestly have no clue, but when I see "freindly2" it makes me wonder if this has anything to do with the Bear Mission, you know when you pick up the tank drivers and bring them to the tanks?

Just a huge assumption...

Also PingPong to me makes me think that the AI would go to Spot B and then Return back to SpotA ... the AI would go back and forth? But then again.. maybe that's looping?

Edited September 15, 2006 by IrishStout

[sui317]

Briefings would need to be done out of game (IMO).

We have confirmation from Grin that there are no variables, and for the way I script that elimineates a lot more than just scoring

There have been many hours spent on the 4-player issue in GRAW coop to no avail. But if the only difference between GRAW coop and GRAW [GR] mode is the loss of TL and crosscomm crud, then it may not be a big issue. But I have not yet spent the time to try building a "real objective" (e.g. C4 demo) into an [GR] coop map, and I am afraid that since demo and resupply, and... in the SP and coop mission must be triggered by the TL we are probably out of luck w.r.t. getting them into an [GR] map/mission.

the TL die thing is just a little thing that can be avoided

when you die as TL you exit the team (alpha /bravo etc.)

then the next is TL

i don't know if it works with no respawn

[Kurtz]

Is it possible to build missions where you have a full AI squad, as in GR, or can you only build single player firefight maps?

[Tinker]

EricJ

Well, I've figured out some basics, group names, etc. from modding existing missions, the scripting part I'm REAL shaky with, but Rocky is planning to link a tut I've done so far, but then again, I've done less exploration myself after writing it.

Hi i can`t seem to find this tut? Is it available pls?

Thnx

Tinker