[GR & R6/RS differences ?+ Kits & Planning?]

[abnegnejs]

...related to the differences between the [Ghost Recon] and the original Rainbow Six/Rogue Spear:

-Why is the equipment assigned in kits instead of being freely selectable? I can understand this is the case with ordinary military units, but this is after all SF.

-Why is there no planning involved in the missions (except for the real-time "planning")?

I posted this in another forum but got no answer.

[ARDelta]

The only real answer to your questions is that those are game design decisions made by Red Storm. I'm sure they consider a number of factors and possibilities, but those were ultimately the choices they made. It's been so long now that they may not even remember why the made those decisions.

[abnegnejs]

Thanks for replying. What I was hoping was that those design decisions might have something to do with realism, and as such someone with knowledge about the US military might know something about why those decisions were made. But perhaps they were implemented merely for gameplay reasons.

[Lightspeed]

i would say its a gameplay thing....a design decision.

it also would create some balance with weapons too i would say.

[Alderei]

Interesting Question.

I think the the units (Ghosts vs Rainbow) would behave very differently when it comes to mission planning because their missions would likely be so very different.

For one thing, Rainbow would almost be responding to hostage situations, and their missions would be very time-critical. To maximize efficiency, Rainbow would hit multiple entry-points and stay on prescribed routes to ensure safety for themselves and mission success. Flash and entry, Frag and entry, room-clearing...you don't want a bunch of blue on blue so stay out of the way.

The Ghost on the other hand would more typcially have a broader set of ROE and more fluid objectives. Planning direct routes would not make a ton of sense because so many variable could change in the field. Timing becomes less critical, so in-mission planning increases flexibility and effectivness.

While it is a game-play type decision, I think it is rooted in real-life, too.

As far as kits go, I'm not sure why kits were so restricted in Ghost Recon, but part of it is an effort by the Devs to keep "classes" separate. If you wanted to stretch a real-life reason over it, maybe you call it weight restrictions? That each Ghost can only carry so much weight, so different kits are set to standard?

[abnegnejs]

That's kind of what I figured. Hadn't considered the weight thing though, but it seems logical now. I hardly ever would have needed the pre-planning in missions, occasionally perhaps, but rarely.

One reason I asked about this was because I thought the real-time commands might have been Ubisoft's first attempts at making the Tom Clancy games more "accessible" (=mainstream). But maybe the system has its roots in something else, after all Raven Shield and its expansions (made by Ubisoft) did include the pre-mission planning interface.

[chiles4]

IMHO, Alderei nailed it with his answer about differing objectives between the two fighting forces. Counter-Terrorist units are closer in approach to SWAT teams - timing can be deathly critical. GR more resembles a special forces army unit...they have objectives but things might differ depending on what they encounter...patrols, etc.

IMHO, both games, RvS and GR, took a logical approach. To me the real-time commands make a lot more sense in GR and I don't think planning would have worked out as well in GR as it did in a game like R6, RS or RvS.

I think Alderei had a great answer on the kits too. It looked like RedStorm wanted you to have to think about your "class" and what you wanted to carry based on your "role". The opposite being something maybe like R6:Vegas, IIRC, where you access to the "full arsenal". I kinda like the way Vegas 2 implemented the experience points which unlocked new weapons. I wonder how that would have "felt" in GR. Without mods, the gun selection in [GR] is minimal.

I just reinstalled GR and am re-evaluating it to see if my co-op gaming buddy and I want to do another "tour of GR". Without such a limited initial selection, I'm using a vanilla SD MP4. WOOHOO!

One reason I asked about this was because I thought the real-time commands might have been Ubisoft's first attempts at making the Tom Clancy games more "accessible" (=mainstream). But maybe the system has its roots in something else, after all Raven Shield and its expansions (made by Ubisoft owned RSE) did include the pre-mission planning interface.

Your post kinda reminds me of the old days where tactical shooters required thinking and not just lightning-fast reflexes. The "planning days" are long gone and I feel we'll never see anything like that again - it's just too much of a "niche" product.

Vegas 2 is now the state of the Tom Clancy Tac Shooter and as fun as it is, it's a whole different type of game.

[Serellan]

after all Raven Shield and its expansions (made by Ubisoft owned RSE) did include the pre-mission planning interface.

Raven Shield was developed by Ubi Montreal.

Athena Sword was developed by Ubi Milan.

Iron Wrath was developed by Ubi Casablanca.

[abnegnejs]

Sorry! My bad!

[steveo10o]

I completely agree with Alderei's post. However, I would like to add to his thoughts on kit restrictions. I think that the restrictions were made more for encumberance than weight. The Ghost's rely heavily on stealth, which requires relatively free movement, with few things to bounce around and make noise.

[abnegnejs]

This is related to the original questions, at least it doesn't deserve a new thread. Why are the Ghosts (unlike Rainbow, again) limited to one type of armor and camouflage?

[WhiteKnight77]

The US military, at that time, used one camouflage pattern for all services. It was used no matter where one was stationed or fighting. It wasn't until we went to Iraq in 91 that we started seeing new colors and patterns regularly. Still, for a woodland setting, you expect to see a woodland pattern, hence what the Ghosts are using.

For R6, CT units would most likely use what they could to blend in with their surroundings. For night, a bluish-black would be better than true black. For urban ops, an urban type pattern would be better.

[abnegnejs]

OK, thanks.