Processor Advice - changed to Rocky's Rebuild

[Rocky]

At the moment it's a P4 3.0 Ghz system I have. What processor would I be looking at from todays range that would be a decent upgrade?

Gaming is the priority, so is it time I switched to AMD?

I'm hoping I won't have to spend more than £100 for a decent upgrade over the P4, but I'm totally lost in the new range.

I'm editing this post to show the anticipated spec.

NEW GAMING PC

NEW GEAR

Processor Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 £150

RAM 2Gb PC6400 £100

External Storage Seagate 320GB £55

Monitor Samsung SM204BW 20" Widescreen Gaming £160

SALVAGE FROM OLD PC

Soundcard Audigy 2 ZS card £0.00

Speakers 5.1 Cambridde Soundworks surround £0.00

HD's SATA drives (x3) £0.00

UNDECIDED

Case - need something quality with easy build, i.e easy access to HD connectors etc. (unlike my antec sonata) £65

Mobo - not sure yet... £70

GFX card - not sure yet, Nvidia, around less than £150

[ROCO*AFZ*]

Rocky... What mainboard you have? That will govern what you get by what it supports.

For Pentium D the highest i think was a 3.6

For Core 2 The 6600 is the best bang for the buck.

For Quad The 6600 quad (Which btw is rumored in July to fall to 266.00 to stamp out amd.)

197USD - 100 British pound right?

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_attrib....&page_id=42

Is your closest bet if you can support Core 2... but there will be a price drop coming up.

The 945 is the cheapest Pentium D

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_attrib....&page_id=42

AMD and Intel are both Cheap now... but core 2's overtook the amd unless you go for the more expensive amd's to compensate.

[Rocky]

Yeh, conversion factor is about 0.5

I'm going to build a new sys around it so the mobo will be new anyway.

I'll check out your links, thanks.

[viiiper]

I have no questions only answers The price is £100.00, the job, the best processor to run std clock, no shi**in with over clocks, excess cooling and tweaking bios, you want it straight out of the jar?

BEST CPU for 100 smackers (intel v AMD), well your price is just on the boarder of the best bang for buck so I went over to 120-140 area

AM2 is the newer socket over the older 939

AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 5600+ 2.80GHz (Socket AM2) DDR2 800 (PC2-6400)

£123 inc VAT

BUT

MY CHOICE

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 (conroe 2.4Ghz / 266 FSB socket 775 - 4mb LS cache) DDR2 800 (PC2-6400)

board required: Intel 965 and 975X socket 775 Motherboards not 975 Motherboards

£140 inc VAT

CPU benched head to head toms hardware

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/cpu/charts.h...4&chart=173

Very close but the the intel is slightly faster (see red bars on benchmark), the other thing the E6600 is you can overclock if your that way at a later time/ date.

So the heart is Intel E6600 Conroe as above 2.4Ghz dual core

memory has to be DDR2 800Mhz or commonly known as PC6400

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist....701&catid=8

Your looking at £100 inc VAT for 2GB

Motherboard is your choice but it can not be a Intel975 chipset it must be

975X or 965. with of course a socket 775 for the cpu (like the older slot 1, socket xxx, they just keep making names up to confuse everyone and sell more).

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist....701&catid=5

Then don't forget a good PSU (600w+) a Graphics card 8800GTS try or chat later...

and bobs your uncle 99% there

hope I helped, I did alot of research to get to this short list.. don't think I just found the first 100 pound CPU etc.

john.

[Rocky]

hope I helped, I did alot of research to get to this short list.. don't think I just found the first 100 pound CPU etc.

john.

Awesome, many thanks. I think I can stretch to the £140 proc. especially considering the 2gig of ram is nicely priced now - didn't realise that.

I'll do some more reading and price checking... thanks again.

Edit > holy cow that E6600 is a HUGE performance leap from my P4, awesome. And the user reviews at ebuyer can't rave enough about it. This is the card for me! Even though it's way over my budget.

It amazes me that they can release such a fast CPU to the public. It should be top secret.

LOL!

[viiiper]

E6600 prices ALL INC. VAT

DABS.com

http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx?Quick...NavigationKey=0

160

Overclockers.co.uk

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct....&subcat=793

140

Scan.co.uk

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo...roductID=430633

137.50

Cclonline

http://www.cclonline.com/product-info.asp?...tid=bx805576600

140

ebay

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Intel-Core-2-Duo-E66...1QQcmdZViewItem

77.00 auction

Lambdatek

http://www.lambda-tek.com/componentshop/in...p;prodID=B60668

131.00

[Rocky]

ebay

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Intel-Core-2-Duo-E66...1QQcmdZViewItem

77.00 auction

Wow, thanks, I'm watching that now, if it stays below £100, it's mine.

[viiiper]

Others ending sooner or later EBAY

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Intel-Core-2-Duo-E66...1QQcmdZViewItem

£77.00

[ROCO*AFZ*]

As for mainboard... since you didn't specify. I use the Asus p5n32-E-SLI which has 3 pci express 16 slots (although only 2 can be used for video) it's upgradeable to quad which i have and uses the 680I chipset.

This may be over your budget but it does kick but... and has no fans on it... instead heatpipes... which keeps it quiet.

http://www.pricegrabber.com/p__Asus_P5N32_...rch=p5n32-e-sli

As for case... you can't beat the space on this one

http://www.pricegrabber.com/p__ThermalTake...maltake%20armor

It has 2 120mm fans, a 250mm side fan!, an a 80 facing out the back also + one facing up. Tons of room... and had no problem fitting my GTX

For graphics cards... you might as well dabble in the Direct X 10... if you plan on buying crisis or not upgrading for a while

Look at the 8800GTS 640mb and 320mb versions or the new 8600 (if you get an SLI board... later you can slap a 2nd 8600 (only downside is they all look like 256mb) in or 8800GTS. Expect a soon drop on these though since ATI now has a card that will compete against the 8800GTS (GTX still beats them)

With all this... you will also be ready for Vista... although your audigy 2 may not work with OPENAL... which is the replacement for EAX in vista. The x-fi does i know.... maybe someone with an Audigy 2 and vista can fill you in. (i'm testing an Audigy 1 xgamer later on today as i'm loading my wifes box with vista and she don't game... but i'll install GRAW to test it.

Evga seems to be the more reliable in video cards with least amount of failures out of the box through our oem. Others though may say different

I used to preach straight intel chipset boards... but these new NForces are sweet to say the least. About 3 or 4 of my clan are using them. Look at asus's line though. I find them easier to configure and less problematic then some of the others out there.

Key features to look for in mainboards are 2 or more pci express 16x slots. (don't fall for the 1 16 and 1 8x versions). No fans on north and south bridge... but heat pipes. Future quad core capable. SLI capable (not crossfire like some of the intel) and 3 year manufacturer support.

I used Viipers link... here is what i have

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct....&subcat=205

And it lists a UK price. This board rocks... and is easy to setup out of the box.

[Rocky]

Nice one Roco, thanks. The forums have an issue with the url to the case, but I found it anyway - looks very nice.

I'm sticking with XP for the moment, so at least I can save £50 and stick in the audigy I already have. I like ASUS boards, the one I got for this build came with absolutely everything I needed in the box which saved a lot of hastle for someone who doesn't have any spare PC case parts lying around, so I think I'll stick with Asus unless someone comes up with a better idea.

I used Viipers link... here is what i have

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct....&subcat=205

And it lists a UK price. This board rocks... and is easy to setup out of the box.

And that is an expensive mobo!

[ROCO*AFZ*]

Expensive yes... but i plan on keeping it for 3+ years... what is your price limit for MB? (i'm still fighting with the conversion lol for pricing)

Btw i'm on msn if you have any questions. oh and that case does not come with a PS.

[viiiper]

Monitor Samsung SM204BW 20" Widescreen Gaming £160

SIZE MATTERS

My recommend, for an extra --> £30 <-- A 22" (Wow ) with 3 yrs on site warranty

LG L226WTQ 22" Widescreen LCD Monitor

http://overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-045-LG

£192.69

- Viewable Area: 22” Widescreen (1680x1050 Resolution)

- Interface: Analog / Digital Input:1 x D-Sub 1 x DVI-D

- Response Time: 2ms

- 16.7M Colours

- Contrast Ratio: 3000:1

- Viewing Angle (H/V): 170°/ 170°

- Brightness: 300cd/m2

- 3 Years On-Site Warranty with LG, contact them on 0870 872 7888 or email at ukmonitor@lge.com

REVIEWS

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2133304,00.asp

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_in...&tabtype=rv

I think the only problem is the stand is not a height adjusting one, it has vesa wall mount option too. I know I keep adding a few pounds (like my waist line) but you keep cutting off the dosh just before the good toys.

[viiiper]

Don't forget your PSU (power supply) I don't think your old P4 will drive the Intel Dual core, the mobo's now take a special power connector, 2x 4 pin or 1 x 8 pin and the GRAPHICS has dedicated PCI-Express power connectors (2x for 88xx series nvidia). Below is my choice on a budget, believe me it's a budget one, I was going for a £75 one but this one meets all your new build needs for CPU, MOTHERBOARD & GRAPHICS CARDS and more.

THIS IS MY CHOICE ON A BUDGET

£53.13 inc VAT

OCZ 600W StealthXStream

http://www.cclonline.com/product-info.asp?...id=ocz600sxs-uk

£48.52 Inc VAT

http://www.microdirect.co.uk/ProductInfo.a...ProductID=17482

SPEC:

600W Configuration

OCZ PowerWhisperâ„¢ Technology

Internal 120mm fan

3 year warranty backed by OCZ’s exclusive PowerSwap™

replacement program. No more endless return-for-repair

loops!

Technical specifications

150 x 140 x 86mm

ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V

OCZ ConnectAllâ„¢ universal connectors:

1 x 20+4Pin ATX

1 x 4-pin/8-pin CPU

(supports double CPUs/supplies stable voltage)

2 x PCI-E

6 x 4-pin peripheral

2 x 4-pin floppy

6 x S-ATA

High efficiency

80% @ 115V (Typical load)

83% @ 230V (Typical load)

Overvoltage/Overcurrent/Short-Circuit protection

Active PFC

MTBF:100,000 hours

100~240Vac 10-5A 50/60Hz

+3.3V(36A), +5V(30A), +12V1(18A), +12V2(18A), +12V3(18A), +12V4(18A)

PRESS

http://www.overclock3d.net/news.php?type=3...stream_600w_psu

==================================

MY EARLIER SUGGESTIONS & PRICES --- left for your entertainment

550W - 650W depending on your GRAPHICS card choice, the E6600 & system takes alot more power than your P4

more later.......

Akasa Ultra Quiet 550W Power+ iQ Active PFC ATX2.01 PSU

example. http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct....123&subcat=

£76.36 inc VAT I know, it's a lot but that's the way of the world, fish about...... you may pull it down to £60.

600W CoolerMaster eXtreme Power

£42.99 inc VAT but it does only have ONE CPU POWER CONNECTOR, you may need 2 for your motherboard.

http://www.cclonline.com/product-info.asp?...tid=rp-600-pcap

review

http://hi-techreviews.com/reviews_2006/CMPSU/P1.htm

connectors listed

http://www.xoxide.com/cooler-master-extreme-power-600w.html

[ROCO*AFZ*]

Thermaltakes also have some good pricing in the US at least. I'll let viiper find the pricing on them for UK... LOL!

Oh, I think also ZJJ's son has some pics of that case in case you want to see real pic's of it. I recommended it to him and he got it.

[CR6]

I posted this in another forum (BFS's) so the advice may look familiar, but I think it applies to Rocky:

My main question for Rocky is are you in a big rush to buy your new rig? Are there specific games you are upgrading for?

There are a few major hardware announcements coming out in the next few months that may be worth waiting for:

1. CPU's - By Q3 this year, Intel will be announcing revised Core 2's up to 3GHz with higher front-side bus (dual channel DDR667 support). This includes the E6600 revised to the E6620 with 1333MHz FSB, and a price drop for the quad-core Q6600.

2. Chipset - Are you thinking of SLI? The Nvidia 680i SLI mobo is the top SLI mobo right now. However, both the 680i and i965/975 chipsets may not have much of an upgrade path beyond this year since Intel is releasing a new "Bearlake" chipset to support it's upcoming CPUs with 1333 FSB. Nvidia is sure to follow suit soon after.

3. Video - We now have a good idea bout Nvidia's and ATI's DX10 offerings. Looks like Nvidia has won this round, as ATI's top offering seems to barely match Nvidia's, while using way more wattage. This is good for Rocky as he traditionally has been a NV user (still feel bad about my suggestions for and your resulting poor experience with the Radeon 9500 way back ... )

4. I agree with the comment about a good PSU. Just avoide those modular ones!

I've built 3 Core 2 systems for friends in the last year, and am ITCHING to build one for myself. However, although it is an affordable upgrade, I can't justify it yet ... Currently I am thinking of waiting til the Core 2 Quad goes down in price, and see what happens when ATI comes out with their die-shrink for the R600 series.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

I agree on the wait... as i stated in a previous post... that is if you can wait. The Core 2 6600 is the best for the buck now... but the quad 6600 like i have is susposed to drop in july to around 266USD.

The revised Core 2 is out... but only up to the 6420 at the moment.

I do believe although haven't researched... that the 680I i have will do a 1333 bus... so that will mean with a bios upgrade i should be able to do it... if i decide to.

[Rocky]

Okay let's see if the forum can keep up with multiple quotes lol...

Expensive yes... but i plan on keeping it for 3+ years... what is your price limit for MB? (i'm still fighting with the conversion lol for pricing)

I see top rated mobo's retailing at around £65, so I don't really want to spend more than that. The conversion is easy - take your price in dollars, divide it by two, and that's the price in pounds. The complex bit is that due to what we call "rip off britain", we more often than not, actually end up paying the same price in pounds that you pay in dollars, effectively paying double for the same piece of kit. Hope that explains it

SIZE MATTERS

My recommend, for an extra --> £30 <-- A 22" (Wow ) with 3 yrs on site warranty

LG L226WTQ 22" Widescreen LCD Monitor

Heh, the Samsung is already on it's way - in the delivery truck, coming through my front door tomorrow.

£53.13 inc VAT

OCZ 600W StealthXStream

http://www.cclonline.com/product-info.asp?...id=ocz600sxs-uk3 year warranty backed by OCZ’s exclusive PowerSwap™

replacement program. No more endless return-for-repair

loops!

I'll be reading about that! This month my current modular PSU is going back to the manufacturers because it's not supplying enough through the 3.3v. If/when they confirm it is faulty I'll be getting a replacement, but in the meantime I'll have to do a lot of messing around with my current rig to put in a temp. PSU and get it all running. Powerswap sounds intruiging for situations like this!

I'll check out your other links l8r, thanks.

My main question for Rocky is are you in a big rush to buy your new rig? Are there specific games you are upgrading for?

There are a few major hardware announcements coming out in the next few months that may be worth waiting for:

This is the conundrum with new builds, there always seems to be something around the corner worth waiting on, for the resultant price drops. I don't know if I can wait, for no other reason than my own impatience

I'm not thinking about SLI, should I be? And yeh I'll stick with Nvidia

[viiiper]

I'm sure the Samsung is Great, especially if it's replacing an old CRT

Hope you get the PSU sorted, in these new machines it works harder than older systems, as for SLI, I have been there, don't bother, really the fuss you have with appz (games) not supporting SLi or this or that, go for a meaty single card solution.

Expensive yes... but i plan on keeping it for 3+ years... what is your price limit for MB? (i'm still fighting with the conversion lol for pricing)

You've a brave man, I can not resist, I need to rebuilt around every 2 yrs, I get itchy fingers.

The $ to £ conversion is easy for you just half the prive for your $ item and then post it as pounds (GBP) ie. Hot new chairs $520 would be £260, thats it half.

I posted this in another forum (BFS's) so the advice may look familiar, but I think it applies to Rocky:

My main question for Rocky is are you in a big rush to buy your new rig? Are there specific games you are upgrading for?

There are a few major hardware announcements coming out in the next few months that may be worth waiting for:

1. CPU's - By Q3 this year, Intel will be announcing revised Core 2's up to 3GHz with higher front-side bus (dual channel DDR667 support). This includes the E6600 revised to the E6620 with 1333MHz FSB, and a price drop for the quad-core Q6600.

2. Chipset - Are you thinking of SLI? The Nvidia 680i SLI mobo is the top SLI mobo right now. However, both the 680i and i965/975 chipsets may not have much of an upgrade path beyond this year since Intel is releasing a new "Bearlake" chipset to support it's upcoming CPUs with 1333 FSB. Nvidia is sure to follow suit soon after.

3. Video - We now have a good idea bout Nvidia's and ATI's DX10 offerings. Looks like Nvidia has won this round, as ATI's top offering seems to barely match Nvidia's, while using way more wattage. This is good for Rocky as he traditionally has been a NV user (still feel bad about my suggestions for and your resulting poor experience with the Radeon 9500 way back ... )

4. I agree with the comment about a good PSU. Just avoide those modular ones!

I've built 3 Core 2 systems for friends in the last year, and am ITCHING to build one for myself. However, although it is an affordable upgrade, I can't justify it yet ... Currently I am thinking of waiting til the Core 2 Quad goes down in price, and see what happens when ATI comes out with their die-shrink for the R600 series.

CR6 I think Rocky is building for the price to performance ( bang for buck) scale, as new tech always costs X times more then it's older cousins, while the price of older items always drops and it's like chasing your tail, to coin a phrase.

I only rebuilt last year but will rebuild next April 08 and will look at those boards. But like most, your one or the other re: things like Graphics. I was Nvidia with GeForce 1 - 3 then went Ati from 9800XT only to go back to nVidia with 7900GTX series and now stay there with 88xx series.

The main thing about rebuilds is to remember if key components are of a key specification then they will last several rebuilds, these are: PSU, MONITOR, CASE, DVD BURNER, SOUND CARD. The main components always getting the boot are: MOTHERBOARD, CPU & MEMORY. So these need to be the best value for your money.

[Rocky]

Yes, I am a bang for buck, not top end "just won the lottery" type of guy

[ROCO*AFZ*]

Hmm... how the heck do you get the pounds symbol on an americanized keyboard LOL!

What about this one

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct....rodid=MB-221-AS

According to asus

http://usa.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&amp...amp;modelmenu=2

It will do Quad Core also... 8GB of ram and has SLI

Think about SLI. Which will be cheaper later... slapping a 2nd nvidia card in matching your medium card that 2 years down the road is low end... to double the performance back to mediom at a better price... or buying a whole new card. With that i think you could extend it to 3 years + possibly... and still slap a quad in or extra ram.

In 2 years Viiper i will probably drop another GTX in and almost double my framerates. That is why i buy highend when i do. My 3.0ghz i retired was 3.5 years old and the only upgrades i did was add more ram and get a 6800GS to last through GRAW 1 until a month ago. The mainboard was around 5 years old also in that config.

That PC is now my wifes (at least the guys) and now has vista on it). It is still capable of GRAW1 and GRAW2 at medium settings so it's no slouch even with it's age. It also supports Serial ATA and has a Serial ATA drive in it ( i think i upped that about 2 years ago)

[Rocky]

Hmm... how the heck do you get the pounds symbol on an americanized keyboard LOL!

You don't have a pounds sign on US keyboards? Shift 3 is GBP and shift 4 is USD on our keyboards. If you don't have one, I guess you could cut and paste this one £ LOL!

That mobo is more like my price range and I'll take the SLi advise on board cheers.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

LOL let me try it... it looks like the pound symbol on a phone

Here is Shift 3. #

And Shift 4 is our $

let me see if it auto does it with numbers

#133.23

LOL! on our keyboards it's the pound symbol found on phones here in the US.

Hah... found it.'

On american Keyboards it is

British Pound Alt+0163

£ LOL it works

And euro is Alt+0128

€

Here is some more for us American's...

¢ Cent sign Alt+0162

£ british pound Alt+0163

€ Euro currency Alt+0128

Â¥ Japanese Yen Alt+0165

Æ’ Dutch Florin Alt+0131

¤ Generic currency symbol Alt+0164

[dporter]

Here is something I tried to post this morning before the site kept crashing on me, anyways here it goes:

I'm going to play devils advocate for a bit and go against the core 2 duo bandwagon for just a second.

First of all I will admit that the core 2 duo are the best performers out on the market right now. But best bang for the buck is used a little loosely. I recently bought a amd x2 3600 brisbane with a stock clock of 1.9 and overclocked it to 2.8ghz with the stock cooling. This processor cost me $65. And I paired it with an open box biostar t-force 550 mobo for $49. Now the 6600 at the moment is $225.90. The 6600 can definitely outperform my cpu, but the question is can it outperform it by $160? I would say probably not. You also have to add in the extra cost of a decent mobo to pair with you 6600. I don't think I'm allowed to say the fps I got on the graw 2 beta but I will say I was extremely happy.

It is a good time to build and like others have said it will be even better in a few more months. As of right now though I am ecstatic about a machine I built for under $400. Ram has dropped even more since I purchased my 2gigs of ocz. You can find 2 gigs of decent ram now for around $90.

Here are a couple of my other personal opinions and please don't get offended anybody, because as I said these are personal. SLI is the worst gimmick ever. Why buy a second video card to put in SLI when you can just sell the one and buy the next step up for about the same price and get better performance. Granted some of the newer cards require the two slots so in that case you need them. Quad core is definitely not needed right now. Nothing will ever use it for another year or two. By the time you do need it, it will probably be around the price of the 6600 if not cheaper.

There are a lot of tough decisions when you build a new pc. I went with the am2 because I know that eventually down the road I will upgrade to a core 2 duo and I would like to be able to use my ddr2 ram with that setup when the time comes. I am happy with my new rig and the performance is just amazing.

[Rocky]

Thanks for that dporter, it's always a benefit to hear another opinion, I'll take all that on board.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

Quad will help once the demo comes out

I don't think Rocky is overclocking. I don't as i need my machine stable and the fans quiet.

With selling the card... it's hard to sell the card once it becomes old. why not just slap a 2nd in. If you go DX10 capable... you'll be good to go. For example... would anyone here by my 6800GS? probably not... unless it was VERY cheap. Unfortunaley it doesn't do SLI. In two years i can slap another GTX in with my current rig and be right there with the top performer 1 card rigs, probably with about a 150 upgrade (maybe cheaper via ebay)

From what i gathered Rocky is looking for an out of the box performer, with no tweaks needed. the core 2 also can overclock VERY high...(ik would say 160$ worth with stock cooling + less energy used) but it will perform very well without it. All and all what me and viiper are talking about is a rig that requires no overclocking for higher performance and will last him longer without tweaking, + get a great warranty on everything. Intel processors are 3 year. I am betting yours is an oem amd which is one. Asus is 3 year. His hard drive is probably 5 year due to seagates new warranty.