ApexMods Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Quote By HardcoreGamer's Matt Whittaker on November 1, 2016 When we look back at The Division, the ambitious, but flawed shared-world shooter from Ubisoft’s Massive Entertainment, we’ll think about all the things that could have been. Considering that the biggest downfall of The Division was a combination of over-fiddling on the part of the developers and a reliance on character progression over content, it makes sense to be wary of the next open-world cooperative Tom Clancy title. Ghost Recon Wildlands doesn’t appear to be attempting to compete with the likes of Destiny, with the emphasis instead being placed upon expansive cooperative gameplay with a high chance for chaos. The thing is, we’ve seen enough promising Ubisoft marketing material before to be wary of what could end up being a fairly rote experience. Will Ghost Recon Wildlands be a pleasant way to begin 2017 or will it be yet another example of a big-budget Ubisoft title that fades away in a matter of weeks? [...] The most likely scenario for Ghost Recon Wildlands is that it ends up falling in the low-eighties on Metacritic, with a groundswell of support initially before everyone moves onto new games. There has been no indication from Ubisoft that Wildlands is aiming to be a game that players sink hundreds of hours into, meaning that it’s likely to exit the public consciousness before Summer. Still, if we end up getting a massive open-world adventure loaded with meaningful activities that don’t feel like filler, Ghost Recon Wildlands might end up being the title that rights the Tom Clancy ship after a number of stumbles. Full article here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Ubisoft have demonstrated a surprising willingness to support their latest batch of titles heavily, well after release. Siege is still getting great updates to a solid base, and I understand that The Division has just received a massive game changing update, although I am vague on the details. If they continue this trend with Wildlands, and they actually listen to what the community is telling them post launch, there's no reason Wildlands can't be a long term success. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApexMods Posted November 3, 2016 Author Share Posted November 3, 2016 If they are really serious about longevity, there's no way around including mod tools. Even if they slightly miss the mark with their game design, given sufficient modability, the game's potential for greatness increases exponentially. But then again... we're still talking Ubisoft here, so better not get our hopes up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyleken Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 The chances of Ubisoft adding in mod tools are, unfortunately, very slim. For the sake of longevity, the Paris studio really needs to focus on making the core gameplay enjoyable in order to incentivize replays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101459 Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 13 hours ago, ApexMods said: If they are really serious about longevity, there's no way around including mod tools. Even if they slightly miss the mark with their game design, given sufficient modability, the game's potential for greatness increases exponentially. But then again... we're still talking Ubisoft here, so better not get our hopes up. I agree on all points... 5 hours ago, nyleken said: The chances of Ubisoft adding in mod tools are, unfortunately, very slim. For the sake of longevity, the Paris studio really needs to focus on making the core gameplay enjoyable in order to incentivize replays. I'd be interested to know what Ubisoft games that don't offer mod support offer anything remotely resembling 'longevity'? On 11/2/2016 at 18:27, Rocky said: Ubisoft have demonstrated a surprising willingness to support their latest batch of titles heavily, well after release. Well after? We're no where near into the well after support level of Ghost Recon... On 11/2/2016 at 18:27, Rocky said: Siege is still getting great updates to a solid base, and I understand that The Division has just received a massive game changing update, although I am vague on the details. Great updates? Cartoon clown and Liberachie gun skins? A new map players universally hate and want taken out of rotation? And the 'solid base' may be ducky in Europa and the UK but the net-code and MMS totally blow here in the US, literally worst on a game in the decade... Great and fun game design when and if you can play it, but there's nothing solid about it or great about any of the updates in anyone's estimation this side of the lake. On 11/2/2016 at 18:27, Rocky said: If they continue this trend with Wildlands, and they actually listen to what the community is telling them post launch, there's no reason Wildlands can't be a long term success. Ughh...Trend? I want to believe... But the insular dysfunction of this company is legend... That Ubisoft knows what you want better then you do screams lost in the woods... The complete absence of: mod support, server browsers, basic PC feature settings, decent net-code, completely unplayable multi-player years after release (GURFUS), the debacle of these things have been pined for by would be fans for over a decade and ignored at Ubisoft's economic peril, while BI and indie developers have totally taken over the space occupied by Ghost Recon and R6, is just... Sad... Again I want to believe, I'll probably buy the game, but considering all this game will obviously be missing it seems ludicrous to assume any hope for any manner of 'longevity'... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApexMods Posted November 4, 2016 Author Share Posted November 4, 2016 12 hours ago, 101459 said: [...]The complete absence of: mod support, server browsers, basic PC feature settings, decent net-code, completely unplayable multi-player years after release (GURFUS), the debacle of these things have been pined for by would be fans for over a decade and ignored at Ubisoft's economic peril, while BI and indie developers have totally taken over the space occupied by Ghost Recon and R6, is just... Sad... Again I want to believe[...] Agreed, and sad indeed. I actually still don't see the space occupied by Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six being occupied by anything but the originals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 Quote Great updates? Cartoon clown and Liberachie gun skins? A new map players universally hate and want taken out of rotation? And the 'solid base' may be ducky in Europa and the UK but the net-code and MMS totally blow here in the US, literally worst on a game in the decade... Great and fun game design when and if you can play it, but there's nothing solid about it or great about any of the updates in anyone's estimation this side of the lake. Couple of headlines for you. Rainbow Six Siege is the best Multiplayer Shooter, Ever. Rainbow Six Siege Has Turned Into One of the Best Shooters Around Steam Reviews RECENT: Very Positive (2,098 reviews) OVERALL: Mostly Positive (34,451 reviews) Sorry you are not enjoying this great game, but "worst game of the decade" is not adding up right now.... :o( 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101459 Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 8 hours ago, ApexMods said: Agreed, and sad indeed. I actually still don't see the space occupied by Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six being occupied by anything but the originals. You are correct! 1 hour ago, Rocky said: Couple of headlines for you. Rainbow Six Siege is the best Multiplayer Shooter, Ever. Rainbow Six Siege Has Turned Into One of the Best Shooters Around Steam Reviews RECENT: Very Positive (2,098 reviews) OVERALL: Mostly Positive (34,451 reviews) Sorry you are not enjoying this great game, but "worst game of the decade" is not adding up right now.... :o( Oh GOSH! Josh & Jake say Bessssst EVAR! It must be TRUE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApexMods Posted November 5, 2016 Author Share Posted November 5, 2016 Oh, come on! This bickering is leading nowhere. With 10 million registered players for Siege, even you (and I) have to admit the game isn't a complete failure, and that there must be a considerable number of people out there happily shooting holes into walls. Whether Siege is a worthy R6 successor is a completely different story, but with several pundits (and we're not just talking any "Josh & Jake" here) describing the game as the greatest competitive shooter ever made, I think a modicum of respect may be due. And BTW, we're supposed to discuss Wildlands here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyleken Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 Fortunately for us, Wildlands is getting an open beta so we can properly tear it apart give it a try before release. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApexMods Posted November 5, 2016 Author Share Posted November 5, 2016 Admittedly, without (at least a promise of) mod tools, personally I'd be inclined to pass on the beta. But being able to take a glimpse at the game before purchase (or worse, pre-order) should help to mitigate some of the catastrophic disappointments many other Ubisoft customers had to go through, recently. If (and that's a big "if") people can somehow manage to avoid jumping on the hype train this time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proximity_13 Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 So about the Division. I recently got the game on sale. I came in after the 1.4 update, so I don't know what it was like before, but the steam reviews show people like the changes being made. I have yet to finish the game, but if we are talking about Wildlands as a possible Division 2.0 then we need to take a closer look at what The Division actually has. The first is a plausible story, or scenario if you will. A bioterror attack on a major city is a big homeland security concern, backed by the real life Operation Dark Winter exercise from 2001. Its an interesting read by the way. I like the flexibility of the AI. They react well to a variety of situations, though the game never really gives the variation to show it. Sometimes I try to play a firefight by breaking contact like in stealth games, or miss a sniper shot to test their reaction. Surprisingly, enemies lose track of you if you are careful enough, even more so in snowstorms. However the enemies are a bit too quick to find my exact location, even when firing from a distant position. It is tuned to be a shooter experience, but overall enemies behave in a semi-tactical manner. The map, weapon and sound design really stands out to me. The snowy streets are spot on, and there are loads of details. When you walk your agent through the streets, it can be quite atmospheric (perhaps the topic of another discussion). The weapons look and behave as you would expect, and the gunsmith system works well. The echoes of gunfire is well done and adds to the chaos of the firefights. I purposely kept my MP-7 unsupressed so I could hear it's awesome automatic bark! The RPG factor holds it back. Between story missions, you have to get experience from the story and side missions to advance. When your level outweighs the opposition, the game can seem very much like a decent Clancy hybrid. But with a big part of the game being getting better stuff, I am often swapping lower level guns for a harder hitting version of the same thing. The weapons do not feel as powerful as they should though, especially when fighting super enemy mini-bosses. I actually like the player's health system to an extent, because it doesn't fully heal you in a fight unless you use a medpack. A step away from the full recovery in other shooters, but not quite far enough to feel any true risk of death unless seriously outnumbered, outflanked or outgunned. So with all of that said, I'm having fun with The Division so far. While it doesn't have the tension of titles like Ghost Recon, it is a decent game. While core elements of the game limit really limit it's realism potential, I hope to see several of its design features in Wildlands. The pieces are worth more than the sum of its parts here, but if put together in the right way, it could really turn into something cool. Thoughts? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101459 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 (edited) On 11/30/2016 at 22:31, Proximity_13 said: Thoughts? Coco, horrible mutant sex toy Coco, it's all I think of now when I look at screwy upside down Ubisoft games... It's like an alternate reality, a bad dream, mistakes were made, things went wrong, and now we have Coco Recon... Edited December 2, 2016 by 101459 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101459 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) On 11/30/2016 at 22:31, Proximity_13 said: So about the Division. I recently got the game on sale. I came in after the 1.4 update, so I don't know what it was like before, but the steam reviews show people like the changes being made. I have yet to finish the game, but if we are talking about Wildlands as a possible Division 2.0 then we need to take a closer look at what The Division actually has. The first is a plausible story, or scenario if you will. A bioterror attack on a major city is a big homeland security concern, backed by the real life Operation Dark Winter exercise from 2001. Its an interesting read by the way. I like the flexibility of the AI. They react well to a variety of situations, though the game never really gives the variation to show it. Sometimes I try to play a firefight by breaking contact like in stealth games, or miss a sniper shot to test their reaction. Surprisingly, enemies lose track of you if you are careful enough, even more so in snowstorms. However the enemies are a bit too quick to find my exact location, even when firing from a distant position. It is tuned to be a shooter experience, but overall enemies behave in a semi-tactical manner. The map, weapon and sound design really stands out to me. The snowy streets are spot on, and there are loads of details. When you walk your agent through the streets, it can be quite atmospheric (perhaps the topic of another discussion). The weapons look and behave as you would expect, and the gunsmith system works well. The echoes of gunfire is well done and adds to the chaos of the firefights. I purposely kept my MP-7 unsupressed so I could hear it's awesome automatic bark! The RPG factor holds it back. Between story missions, you have to get experience from the story and side missions to advance. When your level outweighs the opposition, the game can seem very much like a decent Clancy hybrid. But with a big part of the game being getting better stuff, I am often swapping lower level guns for a harder hitting version of the same thing. The weapons do not feel as powerful as they should though, especially when fighting super enemy mini-bosses. I actually like the player's health system to an extent, because it doesn't fully heal you in a fight unless you use a medpack. A step away from the full recovery in other shooters, but not quite far enough to feel any true risk of death unless seriously outnumbered, outflanked or outgunned. So with all of that said, I'm having fun with The Division so far. While it doesn't have the tension of titles like Ghost Recon, it is a decent game. While core elements of the game limit really limit it's realism potential, I hope to see several of its design features in Wildlands. The pieces are worth more than the sum of its parts here, but if put together in the right way, it could really turn into something cool. Thoughts? I'm sorry I sort of took this sideways with Ubi's epic Coco distraction ("Don't look there! Never mind the game is unplayable; look it's Coco!"), but Proximity_13 makes some fine points. I think The Division is one of the more ambitious games Ubisoft has underwritten, and like Proximity_13 I'm very impressed by the engine. Snow Drop offers an impressive renderer with even more impressive art assets, that's surprisingly polished and glitch free considering all the other crap the game has to haul and is called on to do. That's about where it ends for me; it's aesthetically lush, immersive with impressive sound design but incorporates everything I dislike about RPG game design; ergo a monotonous grind to build a 'beautiful Barbie wardrobe', and RPG character skill that substantially obviates real Gamer skill. With few exceptions the missions have none of the suspense, urgency or military professionalism of the early Clancy games; the AI is lackluster, and the shooting mechanics are marred by the RPG economics of grind to add 'rare prestige deluxe super unicorn almost damage power' in unicorn fart increments... Obviously I'm not a fan of RPG games: playing virtual Barbies, with virtual skills that aren't my own, requires an obtuse fantasy level of imagination and pretend that is too much like playing 'Barbie's magic tea party friends' for me, with the massive time consuming grind, little or none of skill 'game' challenge that defined by weapon handling, tactics, and maneuver combat... This stuff doesn't mirror anything realistic that engages me -- a personal preference I know, and some obviously love it, but how this fits in the Clancy franchise totally escapes me. That said it's a very impressive engine, is obviously feature loaded, offers beautiful well crafted interfaces, and it's all very easy on the senses due to outstanding art assets. I'd love to see Massive build something on this engine that is not an RPG, or with the bare minimum of RPG features executed in a more realistic manner not as magic 'prizes' for your accrued body count, the amount of super secret crap you've blundered into or chased. Edited December 22, 2016 by 101459 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101459 Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) On 12/21/2016 at 07:22, 101459 said: Man Vivaldi really does not like this forum, makes editing posts a nightmare... Edited December 22, 2016 by 101459 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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