New building idea

[element11]

Heres a new render. I hated the way the road looked brand new in a run down ghost town. So i added a old cracked road, beefed up the bridge a bit and added some water. I hid the trees for a better render. Any suggestions??

[bitshot]

That's looking real nice Element.

You can have alot more faces than that. It's all about how you use em'. You can have alot more. You can alway adjust the clipping plane so not everything is rendered at once, but you probably won't have any problems. I think my last map weighed in at 250,000. Also if your using portals and multiple rooms, that helps too.

Here are a few things I found useful.

Trees- Since they are made from the same texture, ( or should be) you can

take the trunk and all the branches and using the collapse tool, collapse

them into a single object. You should end up with 3 things making up a

tree. The helper point, the non rendered cylinder, and the tree itself.

If you get an error about how many verticies your tree is when you export

don't worry about it. Everything will work fine.

Objects- You can collapse a group of shapes that make up and object, like a

vehicle. This helps simplify things. It makes it easiet to move things

around and make the list of seperate objects shorter. You could group

things and get the same effect, but I think it is more efficient the other

way.

Slanted objects- Any object that leaves the floor poly at an angle creates a

problem. If an actor/player lays down or crouches under one of these

objects, when they stand up they will glitch into the object. It is also

possible to become trapped though rarely. Just put an unrendered box

and tag it non 3d collidable where ever this happens. The box should be

at least .3 meters high. (.4 even better)

It's looking good. Are you going to put any light poles by the road? Cheers!

[element11]

Thanks alot for the tips bitshot. Ive never used collapse before, so ill give it a try, and if i have a question ill give you guys a shout. Ill definately keep those in mind. Lightpoles: great idea i never thought of that. Ill make light poles and powerlines and telephone poles: the whole shebang. Ill even make a broken telephone pole. Also with the clipping, thats what i was going to use, but i have never made a real playable map (my last few were just a learning experience) so i dont really know what is acceptable and whatnot. Ill fiddle around abit. I also frogot about grass, i gotta make some grass and scatter that around the map. Im hoping that this turns out okay, im pretty happy with it so far. Thanks alot guys for your interest.

[bitshot]

Instead of scattering grass, how about using some dynamic grass?

If your not familiar with it, just check the .pdf. It's very easy to do actually. Just place a helper point at the same level as the ground. The ground has to be labeled "high grass" in the map editor. Then call the helper point this-

^foliagesetup(x)(y)(z)

x = density of grass

y = name of .qob file for grass

z = not sure. think it means how far away you can see the grass, or maybe height.

It will look something like this ^foliagesetup(2)(c05_groundcover)(3)

There are lots of grass files. They can be found in the model folder of a mod.

Edited October 16, 2005 by bitshot

[element11]

Instead of scattering grass, how about using some dynamic grass?

If your not familiar with it, just check the .pdf.  It's very easy to do actually. Just place a helper point at the same level as the ground. The ground has to be labeled "high grass" in the map editor. Then call the helper point this-

^foliagesetup(x)(y)(z)

x = density of grass

y = name of .qob file for grass

z = not sure. think it means how far away you can see the grass, or maybe height.

It will look something like this      ^foliagesetup(2)(c05_groundcover)(3)

There are lots of grass files. They can be found in the model folder of a mod.

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Thanks bitshot, i was actually familiar with that, i had read it in the levelbuilder. Its good because it means less lag in 3ds, as well as the rustling noises when you walk through them.

[The Worm]

Umm, I may be wrong, but if that's a stock river texture you're using, it looks like it needs to be rotated 90 degrees,. Or else the river will flow sideways in-game.

[element11]

Good call worm, that is correct. Thanks alot for pointing that out.

[BrandonKappel]

Looking awesome element11! You have some great ideas on this map. I personally would like to see more trees. Good job and keep up the work.

Also, will there be any shallow parts on the river? Or maybe a fallen tree, etc...? or will the only way to get across be the bridge? Either way it would be alright. Just a thought.

Edited October 16, 2005 by BrandonKappel

[Zeko]

Looks good. My only crit would be terrain. It needs some variations cuz at the moment looks flat and lifeless.

Keep it up!

[element11]

Looking awesome element11! You have some great ideas on this map. I personally would like to see more trees.

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And more trees you shall have. When i said heavy woods, i meant heavy woods. Just not yet... Thats all

Also, will there be any shallow parts on the river? Or maybe a fallen tree, etc...? or will the only way to get across be the bridge? Either way it would be alright. Just a thought.

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I planned on having a fallen telephone pole, as well as a steel suport beam both laying across the river at different points.

Looks good. My only crit would be terrain. It needs some variations cuz at the moment looks flat and lifeless.

Keep it up!

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Gotta put all the buildings down before i can make the hills too much: dont want grass sticking through the building floor.

[Zeko]

U can cut the floor mesh where buildings will be placed.

[element11]

Yeah, ive done that before, i guess it would be easier eh?

You also dont get trees scattered inside buildings either.

[BrandonKappel]

Sounds great element. I'm really looking forward to this map.

[element11]

Thanks. I send deleyt a pm about a texture and aftre that i can drop the factory on the map and give you a render. Just checking, but you put the sounds in igor, not 3ds right?

[BrandonKappel]

I think you would use the 'Sound Editor' in Igor.

[Zeko]

Depends which sounds. Music and custom sounds r added in IGOR yeah but u also need to add sound to your objects on map. This can be done in max with setting object's property to wood/sand/metal/grass etc. or u can do it quicker in RSB editor and set property directly to textures since u will probably use some textures more than once.

Just remember that a material property in max will override material property in RSB editor.

[element11]

thanks zeko

Im having a texturing problem. When i try to texture the river bank, the texture is spinned 90 degrees. The texture im using is rocks with grass tufts on the top, but the grass is on the side not the top when i texture it. Normally i would unwrap uvw and spin the uvw's 90 degrees, but in this case i cant because i need it tiled. Is there a way to spin the texture 90 degrees without unwrap uvw??

[bitshot]

Yes, in the material editor there are some check boxes that allow you to enter the degrees to be rotated and on which axis. You will need to label this particular texture something new if you are already using the unrotated version elsewhere in the map. There are also ways to flip it on the x or y axis.

[element11]

Oh i forgot, i had another question too. I made a lamppost and i wanted to know if i put a light in the lens in 3dsm or in the lighting tool?

[bitshot]

Put the light in when you get to the lighting tool. If you do it now, it won't show up.

Also if you make one map, say a day map, it is easy to go ahead remove the sun and using the ambient light along with all the other lights, make a night map. Two for the price of one! You can store two map, environment, and darkmap versions in the same map folder and it will work fine.

Also I was thinking about how even now I find easier ways to do things. If I had taken some time and explored every feature of every tool, it would have saved me a significant amount of time and aggravation. I would suggest that everyone take the time on a test map or something and really get to know the ins and outs of 3ds. You won't regret it, and in the end you'll be more satisfied with the results. If I had only one piece of advice to give, that would be it. Happy modding!

Edited October 18, 2005 by bitshot

[element11]

Thanks for the replies bitshot. I try to really get to know 3dsm but theres so much, and trying to figure things out sometimes is like im ripping my hair out, so i end up posting here

[element11]

Heres an update. Tell me what you think about the treeline and the rock face. I made a rock wall with the road turning through it, to make an effective way to end the map rather than jsut the road ending. Please tell me what you think. Also, does the treeline look okay? Please give me suggestions for improvement. Right now im just looking for ways to end the map without the player being able to see the map drop off. With the opening and the road, i made the road floor polygon, and set a collision plane with the normal facing into the map, so when brandon scripts this, he can set a truck or a tank to cruise in from off the map where it isnt visible, drive down the road and unload some guys. Then it can drive away off the other side of the map. I just dont think it can go back the same way though, because it will hit the collision plane ( i dont know wether collision geometry stops AI vehicles i assume it would though.)

I also made 2 new very low poly trees: 38 and 46 faces

This means more trees with less lag.

Edited October 19, 2005 by element11

[element11]

Ive got a question for brandon kappel. I want to know what your plan is for a mission with this map. I have made an overhead render of the map, and i want ot know what you plan is with insertions and where the factory would go. I would like to place the factory in a out of the way place, have the ghosts inserted by helicopter (if possible, if not have them inserted on the roof) I would like battle to be a very intense factory clearing type game right off the start. I would like there to be many enemies right off the start, and make the factory a very exciting part of the mission.

I would like to know your opinion on everything and would like to model the rest of the map based on the scripting ideas. Thanks in advance and heres the map

[BrandonKappel]

Hey, I'm not the best at coming up with great scripting ideas. I've never released any missions, but I have scripted alot for myself. You can tell me what you want out of a mission on this map and I'll try to do it for you. I can't promise that it will be the best, but I'll make an attempt.

Do you want the mission to be a suprise raid where they just land on the factory with minimal resistance? Or do want the factory to be heavily fortified as if its defenders are expecting something? The mission could even have the Ghosts inserted silently and have them make a ground assault. What is the factory being used for? What is the purpose for the Ghosts having to assault it? What kind of enemies do you want, highly trained soldiers, untrained guerillas, etc..?

I would prefer to have the Ghosts inserted by helicopter on the factory roof after traveling across the map while being shot at from below. Thier mission is simple, raid the factory. (Your choice why.) But when the helicopter turns to leave, it is finally shot down by a shoulder fired SAM or even an RPG-7. The pilot is captured and held hostage. The Ghosts have to then rescue him.

Like I said, the mission is your choice. If anyone else interested in this map has ideas, please post them here. I'm not great, but I think I could make a pretty good one. I always seem to get more ideas when I am actually walking around on it and see exactly what I have. It always looks different in game. After I play around with the map in Igor I can see what can and cannot be done on the map. From what I saw, you have made the factory exactly how I was thinking it should be. Let me know what you are looking for.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

BTW-off topic--Does anyone have a Blackhawk with shotgun seats? One that the Ghosts can shoot out of and be able to reload, etc...

[element11]

Do you want the mission to be a suprise raid where they just land on the factory with minimal resistance? Or do want the factory to be heavily fortified as if its defenders are expecting something? The mission could even have the Ghosts inserted silently and have them make a ground assault. What is the factory being used for? What is the purpose for the Ghosts having to assault it? What kind of enemies do you want, highly trained soldiers, untrained guerillas, etc..?

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I will write a mission briefing before you start scripting. I would like the factory to be heavily fortified and have the ghosts inserted on the roof by the blackhawk. The factory is the main target. After you posted your idea about the pilot being a hostage, i came up with this: The factory is the main target and this is supposed to be a quick in and out job. Do you remember the stack of barrels in the render i posted? Well, i have about 8 oil barrels, and i have them set up as a bomb. The ghosts have been senrt in to raid this heavily guarded factory to disarm this bomb. Then after the factory is clear, i would like the extraction zone to be on the roof, but have the ghosts go up there only to find the helicopter blown up on the ground below. So then i would like a new mission objective to come up to rescue the pilot, who has been picked up by an enemy car and driven to a warehouse or other stronghold across the map.

But yes, anyone with ideas, PLEASE post them.