warhawk

← There are so many ways to rib you over this, but I won't. ← What's the matter there Marine you lose your nerve? Turn in that uniform and go get an Airforce one. That will suit you better. @Rocky So who on staff is your other brainless half? Oh wait I think I know. I came back as a Jesse Custer type. Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk

I hope to God its not. ← Hmmm.... Bill Gates + New Windows Op system to be shoved down our throats + the one version many hard core gamers are likely going to want the most = you hope not? I dare say it will be time to get out the vaseline because you know darn good and well Microsoft isn't soft and they won't be giving us nothing for it. Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk

Okay Rocky now come on. Or is this your application for employment at UBI? Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk

lol! Yeah ol'Clint tought me how to handle a smoke ← Soooo much I could say but I'm already in enough trouble round here as it is. Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk

Well even though I wasn't going to post during my "post moderation status" this is one occasion that I would feel remiss about not saying something. I fully understand your reasonings and it's hard to disagree with your reasons. In fact I can't really. Who knows, this may mark the beginning of a trend for some. I know that the sun has set on many things, not just your time here. Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk

@xG5kdo Very good post!!! I would agree with a good portion of what you said even. However, one area that I would like to call attention to is the point where you say that the "civilians" have a right and civic duty (forgive me if I misquote you it's after 2am here and I'm in a hurry to get to bed), to question police on the things they do. I would agree with that also in part. But the time to do that is not when an officer is effecting an arrest. That is the worst possible time. Not only could the civilian be endangering themselves but also, the arresting officer(s) and other bystanders. Not to mention the fact that in every state such a move can be assesed as an attempt to obstruct justice, obstruct a criminial investigation as well as a whole other myrid of crimes. Also too though we as the general public need to get back some basics of our own. Such as personal responsibilty. For example, if I go out and indulge in a few beers too many I have to accept the fact that those drinks are going to impair my better judgement. Furthermore if I act out in such a state I am likely to act in a manner I might not normally do but that doesn't excuse me from being responsible for my actions as I set the stage for any such event by consuming too much of a substance known to be a major problem causer in the first place. The point being is that everything we do and or say has consequences. Whether good or bad depends on the situation. The adult and mature thing to do, something that escapes quite a few unfortunatly, is to accept those consequences when they come. Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk

@SG The magical age is more like 28 but once you get there you will understand. My point about your age is not your knowledge but the sum of your life experience to that point. The fact is I have worked in the law enforcement field. Spent the better part of 5 years there. Have you? No of course not your only what 17 I think you said before? Does that mean your opinion is wrong? Opinions are never right or wrong. But I would say at the very least it's uninformed. Not just because of your age but more from your lack of experience. You can not know what it's like to work as a police officer, especially in a large metropolitan city like Orlando, until you have been there. Even when my father was a police officer I couldn't really understand what it was like for him. Throughout this entire discussion my stance has always been, and will always be, do not judge what you saw based soley on the last 30 seconds. Remember that there are so many more things that go into decisions made by police officers than what the general public, reguardless of age, can begin to fathom. Wake up and stop believing everything that the news media feeds you. They are going to tell you what they think will grab your attention. Be honest are you likely to pay attention to a report of what could otherwise (I'm talking hypothetically here to try to make a point) be classified at this stage as a routine arrest or are you more likely to sit up and take notice where you hear words such as "police brutality"? As cold and heartless as this may sound that young girl should be thankful it was a taser. Because the other methods that could have been employeed to effect an arrest, while they would have all been legal means, could have done far more damage to her and caused, in extreme cases, severe and long term damage. Try to remember that out on the street the police are your last line of civil defense against those that would otherwise be interested in causing you serious harm. Cut them some slack and try to remain objective. Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk

@Tort I'm not looking to persuade people. My reasons for not further supporting UBI are strewn althroughout these forums and the ones at UBI. Try using the search feature. It will save you some time and I don't have to rehash what I have already said many times before. I'm not trying to be cryptic it's just how many times do I have to say the same thing. Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk P.S. That's it I'm done any further questions to me will only be answered in the form of a PM.

I'm going to say two things then step out of the conversation altogether. 1. I would agree with smokin with reguards to the mission editor. It was with his initial help that I got some of the basics down which allowed me to script some pretty neat missions I thought. Once I had those basics down IGOR wasn't so hard. In fact in comparison to the mission editor I use now it's rather easy and simplistic though not at as powerfull. @Tort 2. I never, ever said that no one should or should not buy GR:AW. Those that do and do not will and will not based upon their own thoughts and reasons. I don't want a blind following. In fact I don't want any following. I neither need nor do I want anyone to back up the things I say. The facts for my decision stand for themselves and are a direct reflection of UBI and UBI alone. Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk

Also in a crowd situation like that a prolonged struggle might of made more ppl think they had a right to approach the officers to show their discontent, something that might just of escalated the situation even more. Better to make a quick end to the struggle using the tazer. ← And there you have it sports fans. Given my level of training and my former departments use of force policy and state guidelines I can tell you this. Had that been me as that officer she would have gotten tazered twice just for the reason stated above. In that state she is no longer a threat to the personal safety of myself, my partner, other bystanders or herself and I can therefore turn my attention to the crowd to watch and be on the look out for any other potential problems in the crowd before moving my suspect and myself out of the area. Something that some seem to be overlooking in their "MSN Convo's" disecting a 30 second video. Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk

Take a step back? Already way ahead of you there but more to the point of picking option 2 in your post. Don't get me wrong, and this goes for the devs at GRIN and RSE as well, I know the Dev's have a thankless, and often underpaid, job. I am not now nor have I ever intended to come across as it was them that I was upset with. Plain and simply put I am put off and ###### off at UBI. What does that mean in the grand scheme of things? Not a damn thing. UBI will go on with or without my money. The loss of my funds isn't even going to make a scratch let alone even be noticeable to UBI. The only satisfaction I will get from my stance, and the only one I want, is my personal satisfaction and I will have it. My problems with UBI are not soley centered around GR2 or 3 for that matter. (As I said in another post) I'm hopefull that if, that could very well be quite literally a little word with a big meaning, UBI actually does publish GR:AW that it's what everyone wants that buys it. It won't be, in it's current state, what I want. I can sum up my experience through both GR2 and now GR3 very simply. Input was given buy us fans here and it was ignored or deemed not a money maker by UBI. This is at least how it appears to me. Maybe that's wrong, maybe it's right. The only ones that do know for sure are the ones that made the decisions about what the PC version would be like. But that move was the final straw in a string of both recent moves and past ones that broke the perverbal camel's back. Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk

The thing is Zeko is that there are so many other considerations one needs to take into account. Things not easily seen by any of us in that 30 second video clip that those officers had a front row seat to. The bottom line here is that none of us, not you, Prozac, SG or even myself have enough information based on that video to sit back and make any kind of judgement let alone an informed one, on whether the officers involved acted in accordance with department, local, state and federal laws, regulations and policies. Let alone that those two women had absolutely no buisness what so ever approaching officers trying to effect an arrest. Period. Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk

Exactly, when I read some people here swearing they would never buy another Ubi game because of an unreleased product, I thought I'd been transported back in time to the school playground, it's so infantile. ← Infantile over 1 unreleased product? Maybe. |RE|Warhawk ← Yes, I say it is. To say (in caps no less) .... .... surely is short sighted in the extreme. Who on earth can predict what title Red Storm will come out with next? Based on this game we a love to play even now, it's not too much of a stretch to consider that Red Storm still have some cracking games potential. Why on earth would anyone make a blanket statement never to buy another game from the same development studio that brought them a game that lasted them 4 years+? ← I can neither predict nor would I try to predict what new title Red Storm comes out with in the future. I have no problem with Red Storm Entertainment as I know, like GRIN I'm sure, would produce a title such that would fit all that I would like to see in a game if the publishing company, in this case UBI, would simply allow it. And it's UBI that I have a problem with. If that means I miss out on a good title then so be it. But given the trend over the last few years from UBI, not only with GR and RvS but other titles as well, I am not inclined to further support them with my hard earned dollars anymore than I would buy a Pinto. You can call it short sighted if you like but then again if I was so inclined to resort to such tactics as you have displayed (calling me short sighted and infantile) then I would say you need to take the damn blinders off before you walk out into traffic and get hit by that bus that's about run you over. Before this gets too out of hand though let me just say this one last time. My stance, and I am only speaking for myself and no one else, is based on more than just the fact that GR2 never saw the light of day for the PC. It has everything to do with a reoccuring pattern that has shown up in such titles as GR2, GR3, RvS and Harpoon4 just to name 4. I doubt very seriously at all that things will change unless there is some major move by UBI to do so. And from all that I have read about UBI they have absolutely zero intention of doing so. That's fine. End of the day it's their company to run as they see fit. Just as at the end of the day it's my money to spend as I see fit. And if they, the ones in buisness to provide entertainment, are not going to meet my needs, as a consumer looking for specific things for entertainment value, and to conduct themselves over the course of some almost 8 years, not just with the Ghost Recon title Rocky, in a manner in which I as one of their PC customers feel as though I am treated as some inferior cash cow to them then yes I am going to take my buisness elsewhere. With the way they have made me feel about the whole thing I don't think you have the right to tell me whether my feelings on the subject are right or wrong. Infantile or mature. You may not agree with them and that's fine. I can respect that. But how about showing a little respect in return. Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk

Exactly, when I read some people here swearing they would never buy another Ubi game because of an unreleased product, I thought I'd been transported back in time to the school playground, it's so infantile. ← Infantile over 1 unreleased product? Maybe. But it's not just one is it? It's not just the product itself either. It's the whole thing Rocky. The greater picture. Businesses rise and fall on the basis of their client base. That client base can either grow or dwindle, whether it's long or short term, on how a company deals with and treats that client base. The fact is that UBI has a track record that is not all that spectular. In fact it is very similiar to that of Electronic Arts only maybe not quite as bad as they. But hey if you want to hone in on one reason alone that's your perogative. All be it very narrow minded but your choice none the less. My reasoning is broader than "They didn't release GR2 for the PC ooooo booohooo oooo woe is me". Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk

@Tortfeaser I'm not sure if the following was directed at the likes of me...... But if so can I just make one thing clear? My stance on UBI is not just on one or two things I do not like about GR:AW in it's current state, based on limited information (speaking in terms of what has been allowed to be made public) available at this point. More to the point my stance on GR:AW and more specifically UBI is based upon past experiences with other titles by not only myself but others as well. Not just with GR franchise either. The fact of the matter remains that UBI over the course of the past few years have increasingly treated, at the very least left those of use complaining the loudest now feeling this is the case, like mushrooms and a, in the gaming market, lesser desired customer. This is not just coming in the form of the products they do or do not, as the case maybe, release but also in their own statements and practices. Many of us, whether taking the "extreme", if you want to use that term, stance of not buying anything else are to this point not because we have some axe to grind but that we are quite frankly fed up. Furthermore you need to understand that, and I know I'm not alone here, I was one that use to say "My next game purchase will be GR's successor". That statement was being used by me at a time when Soldier and Joint Operations was on the horizion and people were "claiming" that they would rival GR and any successor to GR. I was even at one point outright ostersized by some for my stance and while that is the perogative of those individuals I wound up not being too far off the mark about those titles either. Also too over the course of the last several months I have had the fortune to be able to work with another tactical sim developer and I can tell you this. They are still hungry. You know how I can tell? They want and look for our input. When we ask for something, showing just cause for it, we get it. They not only hear us they actually do listen. We ask about time frames for when updates are coming out and we get them. We ask for time frames about new modules and we are given it. It's everything that everyone expects from UBI and are not getting. Furthermore I know that while what I am involved with now is not something that the average gamer can either afford or consider I do know that the developers I interact with are going to be the same ones I, and others in the OFP community, will be interacting with when [OFP: DR] hits the shelves. But to say that I have an axe to grind is a gross mischaracterization of things as they are. I have simply found something better. Better for it's realism and better for it's level of support. A level of support that I expect to see continue for some time to come. One that I am sure some long time fans of UBI are longing for now. Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk

@Cobblers Are you willing to put money on that with me? Because I'm telling you right now as God is my witness. I WILL NOT BUY ANOTHER GAME FOR MYSELF FROM UBI. Unless there is a complete change on what GR:AW will be and that I highly doubt. I already have the "mainstream game" picked out that will get my money when it's released and unless UBI buy's that company in particular they won't be getting my money. Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk P.S. - Obviously the bet part of my post is meant metaphorically. But is meant to get a point across.

Big Mutha Truckers You know what nevermind. Coming from a jarhead that explains it all...... Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk

@SG Missing your point? Not hardly. Re-read Para's post. Keeping in mind, mind you, that he has recently completed his courses at a police academy in Florida. Meaning that between, me, TRC, and everyone else that has said anything in this topic, he has more knowledge on the legal use of force as it pertains to law enforcement officers in Florida. Furthermore, responsible adult citizens who do not like the laws that govern police officers and departments or feel that those laws and regulations are antiquatied or out of touch with society need to do their civic duty and stand up and demand change. But do not sit back and condemn the actions of an officer based on 30 seconds of video. How about this. How about first reviewing the entire situation. Look to witness statements and all of the evidence (not just the evidence that will support your cause) before you even begin to judge. Furthermore, it is the responsibilty of all people to make sure they have all the facts before commiting to some knee jerk reaction aimed at making everyone "feel better". To do any less is not only uncivilized but only serves to undermine the men and women in blue who are out on the streets every day doing their part to keep the rest of us safe. The problem with what you are doing is contained in this statement by you. All you are seeing, reading and hearing is what the news media wants you to hear. Try doing some more research into it. Part of making mature adult decisions is making sure you have all the facts available before you pass judgement on someone. I for one am not saying that what the officers did was or wasn't right. I don't know. I wasn't there, neither were you, and I don't have enough of the facts to base any judgement on. Plain and simple. Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk

@Whisper Great post. Nice to see some facts injected into this discussion for a change instead of supposition. @TRC We had a similiar plaque in our locker room. Mounted above the door. Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk

@Para Thank you for stepping in. I knew you would at some point. While I knew some of those general principles I did not know the specifics such as they are for the men and women in blue in Florida. Still before individuals sit back and watch a 30 second video and second guess what police officers do or the actions they take they might want to give them the benefit of the doubt until they know ALL the facts. This includes people like me that are saying "don't jump to conclusions". People may or may not like how the lady in question was handled but if the officers in question act within accordance to local, state and federal laws as well as departmental policy then there is nothing more that needs to be said. Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk

If you want true realism get your wallet ready and go here. If you want a game to play that is close to that try OFP. Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk

@the.ronin One must remember that when one opens one's mouth the things that come out tend to haunt one for EVER. Look I will say this about it. If that's what your into man that's fine. Don't deny it. No one here will judge you..........too harshly. Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk

@SG The only response I will give you to your first question is that when you want to start comparing apples to apples and not apples to oranges then I will answers questions to that extent but that first question doesn't warrent anymore of a response than that. It is often easy for people to sit back and judge/second guess, decisions made by those who are in difficult situations. Bottom line is that when things get tough, and I mean real tough, no one knows how they will actually react to a given set of circumstances. Don't think that you know what you would do in that situation as that officer. Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk

@SG Take a moment and ask yourself this question. "Do I know all I need to know to make an informed decision about this incident?" That video is showing a small window of a larger situation. Just like in the Rodney King incident, no one saw any of what Rodney King did prior to when the LA cops did what they did. Even then no one saw the FULL video of what happened. That is not to say that I think those officers in that incident were angels either. But keep in mind this. Until you put that shield on your chest and until you put on that uniform you have no real idea of the immense pressures and the type of scary situations you can be in and what those things will do to you as a person until you have been there. That is not to say that I think that these particular officers are not crossing some line. What I am saying is I refuse to sit back and monday morning quarterback anything I see on the news about supposed "police brutality". Those that quite often crying about police brutality are trying to minimize their own criminal activity. That is not to say that there are never any instances of it. But I am not about to condemn and officer of the law over some 30 second video put on by some media outlet looking for ratings and I hope that no one else here would jump to such conclusions either. Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk EDIT: @SG Do you know for a fact that they were not trying to get her under control quickly to try to either A. clear the area to try to difuse an already violatile situation, or B. to be able to turn their attention to another threat that you do not see on that footage?

I would keep in mind that this is one small part of a larger picture if I were some. Not to say the this is a case where police brutality is not an issue but without all the facts I am NOT going to second guess those police officers. @SG I hope it's never the case but remember that statement if you ever need one. Stout Hearts |RE|Warhawk