Cpl Ledanek Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 just my 2 cents just in case it becomes a referrence. I run on 6600 128 GT ( one BFG OC GT on AGP, and another with MSI GT on PCI-E SLI) and after changing the post effects to "false" in the xml settings, I started enjoying this game much much much much more on both PC. I can see where GRIN wanted to push the envelope as far as eye-candy and to give the environment a totally different feel. After changing the post effect, it felt like GR1 with advance tactics and weapons. Since I changed the post effect, and my limited card, I cannot experience the choice of lighting that GRIN wanted us to experience and get that HL2: Lost Coast ambience. With what I have, I had no problem playing and enjoying the lighting choice Valve had in mind. So, I too am curious why GRIN choose this route. Be glad to read their post/reply. @LT.INSTG8R thanks for those links you have provided. We need more post like these that are looking for answers and have resources/links that are actually helpful in fully understanding what we are all trying to achieve at the end. Hope the posts here are positive and contructive so we all can pitch in and helping GRIN and all parties involved to come up with solutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossiski Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 I too would be very interested as to why they picked Deferred Lighting. More importantly, as GRAW taxes even the most high-end of today's systems, I'd love to know what rigs GRiN tested their creation on. Did they get access to a CRAY supercomputer? How do we know Deferred Lighting really works if the hardware doesn't yet support it fully? EDIT: How confident is the community that Deferred Lighting will even be supported with future hardware? I don't know, that's why I'm asking. Is support by hardware manufacturers guaranteed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zwitherow Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 I understand your concerns, but I'm glad they chose DL. It will keep this game looking better and better year after year. Developing cutting edge games is always a risk because when you're dealing with new technology, there's no way to tell if it will be the norm in the future. But one thing is for sure, you can't blame GRIN either way for trying something new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LT.INSTG8R Posted May 6, 2006 Author Share Posted May 6, 2006 (edited) I agree with what your saying zwitherow but too alienate Mid-Range gamers, too not at least attempt making it somewhat scaleable in terms of performance is what really bothers me most and will turn alot of buyers of this game(can see alot of posts about this they are easy to find and Im not talking about FX5xxx users I wont even touch that one) Fine make it cutting edge, but leave the option to turn on the cutting edge when there's the cutting edge hardware to handle it. I haven't seen anyone get any FPS over 60 yet unless looking at the sky on even the highest of systems. I mean I can see they are looking to the future but they need to offer some options to keep it now and be able to turn on the future later.(no putting everything on Low really wont see you all that much in gains) I just also want to say because I think alot of people think Im whining because I cant run it. I can run it with a 30-35fps avg and its relatively smooth the low being in the mid teens with alot of action or explosions(read crawls so in an MP atmosphere thats gonna be tough) I run it on Medium Texures, 4xAF, Low Effects and Post, Shadows Off, Dynamic Lighting On all at 1280x1024. Im loving this game and thankfully I had planned to upgrade at the end of June anyway but even with my intended purchase of an X1900XT and 3800 X2 I can only expect maybe 10-15 fps more and be able to turn some of those settings up. So I suppose I have to hope that GRIN will take some time to really optimize this game. I just wanted to point out to everyone "the whys" more so than say "fix it for me" I KNOW why this game runs on the low end of the scale for everyone(and I do mean everyone, say it runs smooth for you fine but is barely there and wont take much to make it not smooth because there is little or no overhead between playable and not playable) My System is gettin a bit long in the tooth but again is not a "low end" machine in terms of power: P43.2E @ 3.6(225FSB)Zalman 7000B-Cu Abit IC-7 2x1024 Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8(1:1) X800XT/Arctic Silencer 4 Samsung Spinpoint 120G SATA SB Audigy 2 ZS Tagan 420W LG 1930BQ TFT 19" 12ms Logitech G5 Saitek X-52 Logitech Driving Force Pro 3DMark05 6174 3DMark03 12917 3Dmark06 2162 Edited May 6, 2006 by LT.INSTG8R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zwitherow Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 yes, scaleability is pretty bad in GRAW. for me, there is little noticable difference between high settings, all high textures, 16x AF, 1280x1024 and low settings, low textures, trilinear AF, 800x600. and that is extremely odd. hopefully there will be some optimization after the patch, but i'm not getting my hopes up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Ledanek Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 yes, scaleability is pretty bad in GRAW. for me, there is little noticable difference between high settings, all high textures, 16x AF, 1280x1024 and low settings, low textures, trilinear AF, 800x600. and that is extremely odd. hopefully there will be some optimization after the patch, but i'm not getting my hopes up. ← Totally agree on the scalability. I wish there's someone in nVidia who is a GR1 player who see this problem and starts working on a solution by himself or a team of nVidia employees who can help us with a patch or driver solution. Wishful thinking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=ASE=Hawk Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 how dop you check your fps in GRAW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zwitherow Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 3rd party program, like FRAPS. also allows you to take screenshots and video captures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=ASE=Hawk Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 3rd party program, like FRAPS. also allows you to take screenshots and video captures. ← no in game command like other games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zwitherow Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 3rd party program, like FRAPS. also allows you to take screenshots and video captures. ← no in game command like other games? ← not that i know of. don't even know how to access the console. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LT.INSTG8R Posted May 6, 2006 Author Share Posted May 6, 2006 yes, scaleability is pretty bad in GRAW. for me, there is little noticable difference between high settings, all high textures, 16x AF, 1280x1024 and low settings, low textures, trilinear AF, 800x600. and that is extremely odd. hopefully there will be some optimization after the patch, but i'm not getting my hopes up. ← Totally agree on the scalability. I wish there's someone in nVidia who is a GR1 player who see this problem and starts working on a solution by himself or a team of nVidia employees who can help us with a patch or driver solution. Wishful thinking ← The ATI guys arent having a great run either I can hope that the Cat 6.5s come out this coming week and ATI had a chance to do some optimizing for this game(I would hope so as they DID get their name on this one you'd think they would have anticipated this) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Ledanek Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 3rd party program, like FRAPS. also allows you to take screenshots and video captures. ← no in game command like other games? ← not that i know of. don't even know how to access the console. ← no one has cracked that console yet. I think Landon has to go see the Mona Lisa again get his blue light and decipher the message...ops, thats the DaVinci Code. . At this time there are no in-game code to see the frame rates. In FRAPS press F9 to see your fps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LT.INSTG8R Posted May 7, 2006 Author Share Posted May 7, 2006 Yeah Ledanek you'd think someone woulda found it by now in the XML's or the Bundle. Just might not be one or we may have to wait until the Editor stuff comes out to get any sorta console acess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody-7 Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 (edited) I find it curious after reading through those links that the most dramatic go/no-go point of emphasis counters what they chose. When is Deferred Shading A Win? -Not when you have many directional lights Shading complexity will be O(R*L), R = screen res. Outdoor daytime scenes probably not a good case -Better when you have lots of local lights Ideal case is non-overlapping lights Shading complexity O® Nighttime scenes with many dynamic lights! I think your thread question is legit and interesting... THANK YOU! I was about to quote that part from the article myself. It looks like Deffered Lighting is used to be exact, and presice and be a seamless form of lighting. But, it seems like GRAW is the worst game to implement this in! As I said in another thread: Wouldn't it be better to use this type of lighting in a game like FEAR or Doom 3? With smaller invironments with multiple lights that are often at night? That's what the article says DL is optimized for. It's a win when [it's used in] Nighttime scenes with many dynamic lights! to quote the article exactly. As for the technical jargon discussing occluders, recievers, and aa depths... uhhhhh yeah. I'm gonna go rub my tummy and pat my head at the same time to feel smart again.... Yeah, seriously. Can we get an article that explains deffered lighting a little more down-to-earth? I don't think we need light equations and occlusing jargon for our purposes. Have you looked up PDFs of simple terms like bump-mapping on Nvidia's site? I thought I knew what Bump Mapping was until I read the article... damn it gave me a headache! Edited July 10, 2006 by Cody-7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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