zulater

PC Gamer is about the only mag that i would come close to trusting. Even then their scores are usually higher than they should be. why? they get the bulk of their money for advertisments for the games they are rating. why ###### off your revinue source? Wanna know how good a game is? See how many people are playing it. from cert clan i see 106 graw from ase 53 [GR] from ase 112 RvS from ase 880 ut2k4 from ase 67 quake 4 from ase 2339 quake3 from ase 88 fear from ase 44413 css from ase 3779 AA from ase 1591 cod from ase 5606 cod2

Ok ok so we're done arguing linearity. ofp, soldner, [GR] do it well. how about the other issues that are left out that "will be" Gun camera (this would have been nice for SP but I am glad this is not in MP) Direct IP Kick/Ban Medic (though the way it is described it would be useless unless they implemented a bleed out option like AA)

No, Rugg has no inside connections to rse or grin. Plus even though I like the guy his opinion is too lopsided to use for information. I bug him about crysis all the time but he keeps talking about a NDA he signed .

No, we wrote it all ourselves. then i guess my connection on the inside got it mixed up as the story was you guys sent your netcode to rse to fix before being released. You really shouldn't trust that connection anymore, that's pure slander. GRAW is is fully home made, save for some graphical reuse. After double checking my connection she confirmed the story. The netcode was sent to rse for refinement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_gameplay Linear levels are described as... In GRAW you can take which ever route you like. Non linear levels are described as.... You're quoting wikipedia as a difinitive source for what defines linear gameplay.... while a good concept wikipedia is far from a difinitive source. Nice try though. I'll quote Bo again since you seem to gloss over it. To complete the mission you must complete all the objectives. To be able to "decide how to complete the missions" we would have to be allowed to decide which objectives to complete in what order "as in the [Ghost Recon]." We are not allowed to do that thus our objectives are linear making the mission linear espeically when compared to [GR]. Insert-A-B-C-D-Extract You also can't "take which ever route you like." There are routes that would get you to your objective that are defined as being out of the mission area.

we're dealing with symantics here. You think because there is more than 1 way to get to the objective that it is not linear. I'm saying that it's linear because you can only complete one objective at a time. We have no way to decide how to complete the mission. we are told what to do in a step by step procedure, thus linear. if we were given all the objectives and could plan out how to handle them and in what order then I would then say that is is not linear. Sure there are parts that must proceede in a certain order to remain coheisive. Alpha Squad took non linear to the next level. You could complete some objectives in different orders however there were certain objectives you had to complete before proceeding where depending on how you completed the objective your new objectives would be different. That's non linear.

in GR1 you had multiple objectives and could do them in whatever order you wanted. In GRAW you have multiple objectives and can do them in 1 order. There are different routes to take but stray too far to get a good flank and you get yelled at. maybe the information released before publication should be information that is for certain to be in the game. if it's not for certain then it shouldn't be released. or at least say 'might be' instead of 'will be'

I was amused at this interview with Bo. This interview was done in Sept 05. Basically just some noteable things obviously missing from the release that were supposed to be in the game. ie the camera gun (to shoot around corners). Direct IP connect support, Kick/Ban options and interesting enough a medic. Also a promise of a non linear game "Mitchel get back here you're leaving the mission area"

you have about 275 people that have more than 200 points. that tells me that not many of those people are dedicated to the game. how many did you have stopping by before this latest patch? Again a number without a reference means nothing. and yeah that graw.php isn't total it's how many people are actually playing the game each night which I personally haven't seen go above 200.

No, we wrote it all ourselves. then i guess my connection on the inside got it mixed up as the story was you guys sent your netcode to rse to fix before being released.

You're just getting the casual people that play once or twice a week. I haven't seen anything over 200 people playing at a peak time. http://www.cert-clan.com/graw.php how many were you seeing before the patch? A number without a reference means little. also does it rack up a visit for anyone that logs on or only for a unique visit from a single account. as in if i joined your server 5 times would it count as 1 join or 5 in your stats?

1) GRIN hasn't bailed yet 2) It wasn't canceled like GR2 3) Great learning experience, ie don't expect the final release to be different from the demo 4) I like the slide/dive to cover 5) combat/dry reloads keep correct count of rounds that's all i got. from my understanding grin didn't do the netcode roco, rse did.

I would love to see Id do Ghost Recon. At least it would be finished on release. I can't wait for their new IP. they are being hush hush about it.

D3 was to show off the new Id engine which it did very well. the mp was there to tide you over till quake 4 q4 is the multiplayer, it's rock solid. quakewars is going to blow you away.

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/719/719367p1.html I would be willing to bed that GRAW PC doesn't have much of that 800K share. It's not even listed in the top 20 for June and what is listed isn't very high on my list.

rabbi, 1.6 mill for all xbox 360 half that means 800,000 is split between the PC, xbox, and ps2. I would like to see some numbers for those also ubi doesn't see the 50 bucks. that's what the retailers make, ubisoft will see 35-40 bucks per copy. and you're leaving out marketing, printing costs, shipping also there has to be a total profit for the shareholders.

supporting a game and finishing the game are 2 different things in my opinion. They have yet to give us SADS, Direct IP Connect, any server control, switch maps in game, kick, ban, then we can get into the coop side of things no FF etc.. The only thing they have done at a request of the community was add the fake AA and I believe you can skip the intro movies in coop now. Everything else that they have done should have been included in the retail release.

I was going by the stats on this website http://cert-clan.com/graw.php currently shows 200 players at peak time for europlayers. last night it showed 150 at peak time for us players. so there are 1000 different people that have stopped by the AFZ server. 1000 out of how many that originally bought the game? This all hinges on how many copies the PC version sold. if we assume for every 20 players that buy the game for SP only there are 1 that play MP. so there are 20,000 players that bought the game for SP and 21,000 total copies. let's bump it up to 50 to 1 so there are 51,000 players say they make 25 bucks (gross less printing/distribution/marketing) on the game that's only 1.275 million dollars. GRIN was a pretty big company. assuming an average salary of 40K USD and 30 employes that's 1.2 million in salary for a year. so they are almost over budget already on the game. They are continuing to put our patches and I would assume they are still getting paid but we don't have to pay for the patches. something has to give somewhere.

This figure since this was printed has gone way up. You are probably looking at nearer 2 million copies total for all platforms by now. The fact that Grin and Ubisoft have said they will support this game long after release is in itself proof enough how well the game is doing. In your eyes the game is not a success, well that is your problem, the single player element alone is one of the best single player games ever made, and this is plastered all over the net. You have to realise that not all players have good internet connections and dont even play online, these people play single player thats it. So in closing I would say that we will have support for a good few months to come and also we have Team members here that help out with the modders, thats pricless in my book, and a lot of this is done on the Dev Teams own time no pay, just love of the game. I have still yet to see any facts on how well the PC version sold. If the PC version is not paying for itself it will get dropped. There are maybe 150 players online each night. is it really worth the time/money on patches for MP for 150 people? In the long run something is going to give and if more people aren't buying the game and coming online to play the PC will be dropped.

Maybe UBI has some kind of agreement with Gamespy and direct ip connecting or using something like ASE would break the agreement/contract?? gheyspy is doing more harm than good. if there is a contract surely there is a way out for failing to provide full support. mark it up to ubi being ubi again.

When D3/HL came out I ran those games on moderate settings with a video card that was 2 generations old. Try even running graw with a video card that was 2 generations old at release, oh yeah you couldn't. And it's not folly to say they didn't need a demo. D3 and HL2 both had alpha's leaked that ran better than graw. That's not the point though. The point is that Id Software and Valve have proven that they stand by their products and (Id for sure, valve not as much) do not release them until they are polished and will run well. Expectations are built based on what is given out by the publisher. I expected a different AND BETTER game than what was released on the xbox since the PC has more power. We got different but not better. We got a wireframe cross-com, fewer game modes, fewer maps, and fewer weapons.

The favorites actually use a sort of ip connection. Check out your profile.xml after adding a server to your favorites. That means it is possible once ubi lets the GRin guys make a go of it. it's been possible since the beginning and they haven't made a go of it yet...

direct ip connection has been asked for since the game was released. since we don't have it by now i would assume we won't have it.

No matter how far you stick your head in the sand you were lied to. It is not a play on words it was an expectation that the pc version would be just like the xbox version (which i showed in screenshots to show you what we don't have) but it was not. Doom3/hl2 don't need a demo because they have proven in their previous games that they produce a complete product that isn't buggy as hell. All the games you mentioned are popular and well selling because they are completed, work well, and run on most any recent pc. The game had local play. You cannot rate how the game will play online by playing it on a LAN where you have unlimited bandwidth. Well said.

I guess you are missing my point about this house concept being invalid. if you read the box there are features presented that are not available in game. Had we been able to try out the game before buying it (like you can walk through a house before buying it) we could possibly had made a different decision. Laziness is no excuse for false advertisement. @zulater- we got a demo for free prior to the game itself. Sure the demo came literally DAYS before the game's release, but we got it. While it didn't cover all the bases, it DID cover the issues in question from the box. Anyone who buys this game without trying the demo first has no one to blame but themselves (unless, of course they have no internet access) when it turns out to fall short of their individual expectations. So we DID get to walk through the house, or at least the house's family room. sorry every demo that i have played has never had all the features of the finished product. sadly, with the exception of internet play, this one did. either way there are features on the box that are not present in the game. to make the car example complete you would have to include features that you paid for (like power windows or tint or something) that were not on the car you were given when told you would get them.