GRiN_desmond22

That, I'd guess, is pretty much common knowledge already, considering today is the last day of July.

Hehe, I changed my mind and deleted my post you're quoting, but now it's been prepetuated through you quoting it. I didn't want to start an argument but since your response is positive I'm still glad you cought the message before I deleted it.

You're not making any money by modding an existing map and releasing it, so I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed to do it. The game is made to be moddable and all the content in it can be seen as pieces to build new stuff with - including any single map as a whole. I don't think you even need to ask.

Ok, to clarify: I didn't mean "I know a little about props" I meant "I know very little about props" ...as in "I know nothing whatsoever about props" In other words, I won't be able to answer your questions regarding props I just assumed you asked me since this was "my" thread.

I know little about props.

No offense taken. Personally, I think the rolloff and gain of the footsteps is perfect - if you disagree that's a matter of personal opinion. You can mod the game as you see fit, and as you've seen I'll gladly help you do it. I'm wondering if you have found the footsteps too loud only in MP because you have played some MP map that completely lacks looping environmental sounds - then the footsteps would seem too loud in comparison to the complete silence of the map (save the gunfire). We have released maps that lack looping environmental sounds, but I'm working on that to have it fixed for the next patch. Btw, npc_footsteps is the group whose attributes you want to change.

Haha, you just want that for your GRAW:BLACK mod. You'll see and hear water in the next map pack. BTW, what is a hanger glass?

ShadowCompanyElite

You'll be making all new sounds as well?

Also, consider just lowering the gain of the cue.

Sorry, I just found out the "tunnel" sound isn't implemented into the game. Bummer. It will come with the next patch, along with some new sounds of wave splashes and seagulls. The environment "profile" of a map is decided in the .dsf file for that map. On the 23rd line of the .dsf file, there is a line that looks like this: Global.mission_ambience_soundbank := "ambience_###_sound"; Where ### represents either of these: city_day city_night historical_day industrial_day military_war park_night shanty_morning shanty_war Each of those "profiles" have their own unique setup of environmental loops (the "generic_loop01" ..02 and ..03 sounds you should place in a triangle shape around the map) and "occasionals". The occasionals of city_day, for example, concist of car horns, cars driving off, aero planes passing by in the distance, and the occasional dog barking, while shanty_morning, for example, has more dogs, cats, cocks, flies and creaking doors - it's all obvious. This next patch, I'm adding shore_day to this list, which contains the sound of the ocean in one direction ("generic_loop01"), and a lot of birds (seagulls).

Indeed, zero_distance is the variable that tells the game how long a distance the sound travles before it is reduced to zero. As you may understand, though, the attribute "10" here (that would be 10 meters, or ~11 yards) is not at all correct - the footsteps are heard on a greater distance than that. This is because the cue is a part of a group ("npc_footsteps" and "player_foley" respectively), and the attributes of a group overrides the attributes of the cues which are a part of that group. This is so that the sound designer can "batch process" a whole bunch of cues and change the attributes of many by just adjusting the numbers at one single location. npc_footsteps and player_foley are typical groups which each contain a lot of sounds that it would take ages to change i.e. the zero_distance of if you had to do it in every independent cue. On many occasions the cues are also spread over a great number of xml files as well - and then the job would really get messy if we didn't have groups! Needless to say, the zero_distance="10" means nothing in this location, and it will make no difference whatsoever if you change this value here - it is merely a placeholder for the value if you were to take the cue out of the group it currently is a part of, or add the attribute has_custom_distances="true" to the cue and make the cue "reoverride" (haha) the zero_distance value of the group which, as I said before, earlier had overridden (hoho) the value of the cue. At that point the group still has other attributes (like priority) which are still inherited from the group it is a part of - so the membership in the group doesn't lose its meaning if you add has_custom_distances="true" to the set of cue attributes. Anyway, if you want to change the attributes of the groups (I know you've been waiting for me to get to this part - yeah I know I can be pretty wordy in my responses ), you need to open up the settings.xml which is in the data/sound folder. The part shich is interesting to you at this point looks like this (without the awkward line breaks): <groups> <group name="music" zero_distance="1" priority="6" category="music" reference_distance="1.0"/> <group name="narcom" zero_distance="1" priority="6" category="narcom" reference_distance="1"/> <group name="key_event" zero_distance="1000" priority="6" category="sfx" reference_distance="1.0"/> <group name="player_weapon" zero_distance="200" priority="6" category="sfx" reference_distance="1"/> <group name="ghost_speech" zero_distance="10000" priority="6" category="ghost_speech" reference_distance="1"/> <group name="npc_weapon_near" zero_distance="150" priority="5" category="sfx" reference_distance="1"/> <group name="npc_weapon" zero_distance="150" priority="5" category="sfx" reference_distance="1"/> <group name="ambient_loop" zero_distance="5000" priority="5" category="sfx" reference_distance="1"/> <group name="hud" zero_distance="1" priority="5" category="hud" reference_distance="1.0"/> <group name="vehicle" zero_distance="120" priority="5" category="sfx" reference_distance="1.0"/> <group name="major_occasional_event" zero_distance="100" priority="5" category="sfx" reference_distance="1.0"/> <group name="bullet_near" zero_distance="60" priority="4" category="sfx" reference_distance="1"/> <group name="npc_weapon_far" zero_distance="300" priority="4" category="sfx" reference_distance="1"/> <group name="large_props" zero_distance="80" priority="4" category="sfx" reference_distance="1.0"/> <group name="bullet_far" zero_distance="150" priority="3" category="sfx" reference_distance="1.0"/> <group name="generic_event" zero_distance="1000" priority="3" category="sfx" reference_distance="1.0"/> <group name="npc_speech_near" zero_distance="100" priority="3" category="sfx" reference_distance="1.0"/> <group name="player_foley" zero_distance="40" priority="3" category="sfx" reference_distance="1"/> <group name="npc_footsteps" zero_distance="60" priority="3" category="sfx" reference_distance="1.0"/> <group name="npc_speech_far" zero_distance="100" priority="2" category="sfx" reference_distance="1.0"/> <group name="small_props" zero_distance="60" priority="2" category="sfx" reference_distance="1.0"/> <group name="echo" zero_distance="400" priority="2" category="sfx" reference_distance="1"/> <group name="npc_foley" zero_distance="20" priority="2" category="sfx" reference_distance="1.0"/> <group name="ambient_occasional" zero_distance="300" priority="2" category="sfx" reference_distance="1"/> <group name="debris" zero_distance="40" priority="1" category="sfx" reference_distance="25"/> <group name="wildlife" zero_distance="30" priority="1" category="wildlife" reference_distance="1"/> <group name="lowprio_echo" zero_distance="300" priority="1" category="sfx" reference_distance="1.0"/> <group name="silent" zero_distance="0.5" priority="0" category="sfx" reference_distance="1.0"/> </groups> I think you know how to mess with that - it's kinda obvious. Good luck!

Ok, your wishes for a "distinct" yet "deep" sound kinda contradict each other. Most people have complained that only their bass woofer picks up the thud-sound, so something has to be done to make them clearer in the higher frequencies, I'd say. I have made sounds that are very distinct and hard on your ear - the problem is the sounds aren't treated the same way when they're implemented into the game, and they somehow sound weaker. The swish sound cannot be taken away - the game is made so that as soon as the trajectory of a bullet cuts within a certain distance from the player's head it will trigger a swish-sound. The swish-sound cannot be muted or "taken away" depending on whether the bullet hits the player or not - it is played regardless. Regarding the notes of the sound being too "unnatural" or lacking the specific characteristics you are looking for (Peace, or anyone else), I can't and won't attempt to make a sound that pleases everyone's personal taste. I can agree that the thud-sound needs to be clearer and more audible, and I'll make that happen. However, if I make an attempt at pleasing everyone, soon I'll have to post samples of my work-in-progress so that you guys can say which way to tweak the sound and then do those changes, and post new samples, and take your feedback to be able to make new samples, and... I just won't go there. Also, I hardly believe you could all agree on how you all want it. You can mod the game yourself if you're not happy with details such as the thud-sound being too this or too that for your personal taste. I hope you understand.

The PC and Xbox360 versions of GRAW shared the voice recording resources. UBI's 360 developers handled all the voice recording duties, and if I'm not mistaken this was done in Los Angeles, by - need I even say? - American voice actors. Any mistakes in wording or pronounciation has been completely out of Grin's hands. This is not an issue that will be adjusted in a future patch.

You mean it's as if the engine only takes horizontal distance into consideration when calculating the distance to a sound source? ...that if you stand on the third floor, and someone is 10 meters below you and 2 meters in front of you, the sound is as if the person is 2 meters in front of you, rather than 10 meters away? If so, it sounds like you have some problems with your sound card. Is it an on-board one?

First off, if you want sounds to be muffled by objects (buildings, etc), you need to have EAX switched on. Secondly, my question regarding the sound applies to the game "as is", don't request new walks speeds from me. This is not the kind of thing one would include in a patch - it's quite a big feature, demanding new animations and what not. Lastly, it's nice to hear you guys are satisfied with my work. Warms my heart.

Ok, here goes... Basics: You fly around in the editor with the W A S D buttons on your keyboard, and press space bar to lock position and use your mouse to edit stuff. While flying, the mouse wheel can be used to alter the speed. In the editor, select the "sound" layer from the layed drop-down menu. Decide what kind of sound sourcce you want to begin with - if you are about to place a lot of the same sound sources, such as birds in trees, you want to place all the birds on the entire map before you go on and place the next type of sound source, which could be crickets, or frogs, or whatever. So, let's say you've decided to place birds on the map - create your first sound source by "flying" with the camera close to where you want the sound source (preferably, facing a tree on a few meters distance). Click the right mouse button to spawn the sound source (it is represented in the editor by two cones pointing their tips at each other - in profile they resemble a bow tie). The sound source that is currently selected is always green, and all others are red. Click on the little floating window that says "name:" and under it, "cue:". Mark the empty box right of the word "cue", and write the name of the sound you want that sound source to play. It can be any sound that is available in the game (even a gunshot, or the sound of metal scrap falling to the ground) but if the cue isn't set to be looping, the sound will only be played once - when the mission begins - and never again. Cues I created intended for use as envitonmental sounds are the following: "birds" "birds_night" "crickets" "frogs" "factory" (muffled machinery noise) "radio" "foliage" (occasional foliage rustle and creaking branches) "foliage_loop" (continuous breeze through foliage) "tunnel" (muffled rumble to create a feeling of being in an underground construction (not a natural cave)) "rooftop" (occasional, random noises such as tin cans tipping over, hinges creaking, and wind blasts over roof tops - place these high up so the player never gets too close to them) ...however, if you want to, you can connect any looping cue to an environmental sound source, like an air conditioner buzzing, or a sewer drainage gurgling - although the objects that are supposed to play these sounds (that is, the air conditioners, and the sewer drainage) already have them connected to them so when you spawn such an object into the map, the object's specific sound will play from that object. Maybe, however, you want something that is not an air conditioner to sound like and air conditioner - then you have to place that sound yourself, manually in the editor, as I am currently describing. Just find out by browsing through the xml files what sounds are available and suitable (as I said before, only looping sounds are suitable as environmental sounds). So, to have the sound source you just placed in the tree (remember?) play the sound of a bird, write birds in the text field right of "cue" in that floating window. To have it play the sound of a cricket, write cricket - well, you catch the drift... Now, all sounds you place after this sound (flying around, occasionally stopping by a tree, hitting the space bar to lock position, right click with the mouse to place a sound source in that tree, then hit space bar again and fly to the next tree...) will have the name of the last sound you entered in the "cue" field - in this example it's "birds". This is why you want to place all the sound sources that are to play the same sound in one session, instead of placing a bird sound here, a cricket sound there, a factory sound here, another cricket there... this would take a lot of time because you'll have to reedit the string of text in the "cue" field all the time, to match whatever sound source you're placing at the time. So, in short - decide to first place all of one sound source before going to the next type of sound and placing all the sound sources connected to that sound. Then, create the first sound source of the next "cluster" of sound sources you are about to The sound sources will automatically be named "sound1", "sound2", "sound3" etc. It might be a good idea to rename them so that you have them as "bird1", "bird2", etc. even though you need to do this manually in the text block right of "name:" in the floating window. Important to notice is that these "specifics" (the static sound sources you place manually in the editor, or are connected to a certain object) aren't the only sounds that are supposed to constitute the environmental sound of the map - there are two other types of sounds that do their part as well, and together they create a richer audio atmosphere. First off, there are the "backdrop loops". Each map set (city, historical, shanty...) has its own set of environmental "backdrop loops", setting the underlying mood for that map type. When you start from scratch on a new map in the editor, you have to choose what set to create the map from, and if you choose for example "shanty", three shanty "backdrop loops" are automatically placed on the empty map in a triangle shape. You should always make sure that the accessable parts of the map don't go outside this triangle shape - if you want to make a big map you should move the environmental loop sound sources and make the triangle they constitute larger, always making sure its area covers all the parts of the map the player can go to - you might want to rename the three sound sources right away so that you can find them in the list and highlight them (green) to move them later on, if you find your map becomes bigger and bigger. In other words, the player should never be able to go outside the triangular shape made up of the three environmental sound sources, because it will sound weird if he does so. The environmental loops are supposed to always be around the player, and the always play quite generic and distant sounds so that you don't hear them loop so easily. They are meant to provide a backdrop; a little wind, maybe a little bit of distant firefights and explosions - making sure the world never goes completely quiet. Secondly there's the "occasionals". These are sound sources that are automatically spawned every few seconds (maybe 10) on a distance of 75 meter from the player. They play one sound, and then disappear. These are the sound sources play the kind of sounds that aren't as generic as the sounds played by the "backdrop loops" (ie distant fire fights), but not as location specific as the "specifics" (ie buzz from an AC, frogs near a pond). The "occasionals" play sounds of stuff that are supposed to create the feeling of a living city close to the player, but that the player never gets to see; ie dogs barking, cars driving away, dumpster lids dropping in an alley an aeroplane flying by in the distance. These sounds will play all over a map, and they will never stop. This poses a problem if you want to create a map that has both a city part and a forrest (or similar) part. I had this problem on mission 6, where you move from the forrest into the military compound. I solved this by creating a set of "military" backdrop sounds, that was very very generic (almost wind only), and make up for the lack of characer in the backdrop sounds by placing a lot of birds and crickets in the forrest, and a lot of factory noises and rooftop sound sources around the military compound. The "backdrop sound" and "occasionals" are supposed to be automatically incorporated into a map, as you choose which "set" to build the map from - so you don't alter these in the editor (apart from the placing of the three "backdrop sound" sources. However, it is important that you as a map designer are aware of these two sound factors (that is, the "backgdrop sounds" and the "occasionals") and know what parts they play in the creating of the audio atmosphere, so that you can place the "specifics" with better wisdom. Remember, sound is very important. At this point, you can only place sound sources that trigger sounds which are already in the game, you cannot create your own sounds and add to the game, creating you own sets of audio environments (neither "specifics", "occasionals" or "backdrops"). Last: Design philosophies and guidelines regarding placing of environmental sounds Simon Viklund, 12th of Feb 2006 Birds should only be placed in leaf trees (that is, not in palm trees) - this is because the birds are never seen. The foliage of a leaf tree would better “hide†a bird, and then the Player isn't as annoyed by the fact that he can't see the birds. Not more than one bird per tree - but do not put a bird in every tree. I have placed about 80-90 bird sound sources on each map - use this number as a ruler. Too many sound sources will flood the audio atmosphere, and a sound card can't handle so many sounds at once anyway, so placing too many sound sources is just working in vain. Crickets should be placed wherever there are birds - but not below the same trees that have birds in them. Place the crickets on lawns (near a brushed 3d grass sprite) or below palm trees. I have put about 120 of cricket sound sources on each map - use this number as a ruler. Frogs should only be placed near sewer entrances - where you would expect to hear frogs, but not see them. Do not place frogs where the Player will expect to see them, e.g. by the edge of a pond where he can walk close by. Avoid placing any animal sound near a blown up building, helicopter pad or other location where something noisy has happened/happens frequently that would scare away the animals and insects. These areas should really come across as "dead", catering for a dynamic soundscape. Have some thought behind the placing of sound. Factory sounds are placed in all factory buildings that have smoke coming out of them. Try to put the factory sound in the middle of the building's 3d model, so that the Player can't walk around the building and hear the noise inside play louder at any point. Only place radio sounds in a maximum of two buildings per map - and make sure they're far apart. If it is an industrial map, do not place the radio in a building that already has a sound (ie, a factory with smoke coming out of it), but try to place the radio where there are not many environmental sounds in the vicinity. Always spread out sounds, use few sound sources economically rather than lavish. Every once in a while, fly high above the map you're working on, and try to spot the areas which lack sounds. Use your imagination and put more sounds here - maybe there are not trees there, but you can put a bird on top of a building instead. The Player should't be able to walk anywhere where there are no environmental sounds. If many sounds are to be placed in the same area - e.g. birds in a grove of trees - try to spread the birds and not put them in a straight "line". Since you know the maps and the missions, imagine the Player walking through the area and place the sound sources so that he is surrounded by the sounds. Place sounds even in the buildings and trees, etc, that are outside the area in which the Player is allowed to move. It is important that the Player can hear sounds coming from outside the mission map - giving the feeling of there being a world outside - otherwise the world seems dead, fake, a simple backdrop. Hot tip: Name all sound sources! All crickets should be named "cricket1", "cricket2" etc. This makes it possible to easily see in the world.xml file how many of each sound have been placed in the map. It also makes it a lot easier to troubleshoot if you find e.g. a factory that plays the sound of a frog, or similar problems. I hope that helps.

We've had the discussion here at the office, whether we should take the realism or gameplay into consideration when it comes to the sounds. As the sounds are now, I have matched the triggering of sounds exactly to the movement (the animation) of the character: if the soldier sets his foot down hard, it produces a harder sound (ie when running) if he sets his foot down carefully, it produces a softer sound (ie when walking) if he drags his foot or knee, it produces a a quite loud dragging soung (ie when shuffling on crouch position) if he's crawling, there are both dragging noises and a lot of gloth rustling It is actually more stealthy to hold the shift key down and "crouch run" instead of "crouch shuffling", because then you put your feet down flat on the surface rather than dragging them along. This makes shuffling, and crawling, the loudest ways of moving around - despite the fact that someone who keeps a low profile like that probably wants to be unseen and unheard. In reality, someone crawling over a field of gravel makes a lot more noise than someone who walks across. This is a good example of reality and gameplay in conflict. Even though it goes against reality, do you think shuffling and crawlig should be the most silent forms of moving? Just out of curiosity, do you think I made the wrong decision?

Yes, this is done in the game (for example, by the "sniper hideout" house in sector E of the Shanty Town DOM map). You can exchange the songs that are played now (by the group Ill Niño) or add new ones to the "playlist" of that virtual "radio". Adding your own sound sources (such as a bird in a tree or a radio inside a building) is easy as tic-tac-toe. All objects or areas are tagged with a certain material, which decides what effect/sound is played when you shoot at it, and what sound is played when you walk on it. It is completely possible to add new materials (such as snow) to the list of materials, and start tagging objects with that material. he tricky thing, I think, would be to create unique effects to be played when you shoot at that material. The sound is a minor issue - it's no problem adding new sounds that become "available" for the engine to play, the tricky thing is to connect that sound with a certain effect (shooting or walking on a certain surface type) and have the game play the sound when it's needed. Other GRIN members can help you out with this better than I can. I guess I'll have to write a little guide on how to create wave banks, sound banks and .bank-files.

Hihi, a feature we should add, to rescue something you messed up by hacking the game? That's, uh... funny. Don't get me wrong though - threads like these are great. Keep the ideas coming!

That the co-op is lacking at the moment, I can agree to. But to say there is no hope for it - that is, assuming that we are lying about the upcoming improvements to the co-op mode - is a tad bit too pessimistic. It's just your disgruntled self speaking. I thought people knew better these days than to hang on to these "UBI are trying to steal our money and dump toxic waste on our back lawn" conspiracy theories.

Good ideas, but I hope you understand many of these things require monumental changes in the game mechanics, and are hardly the kind of things you'd put out in a simple patch - it's more of what you'd wish for in a sequel.

Ok, I see. The idea with the _large and _small sounds is to have different sounds depenging on the size of the bullet you're hit by - so you can guess by listening what kind of weapon and power you're being attacked with. There is a sniper hit class too. The _large sounds of course sound "bigger" than the _small sounds, but if you can't hear the _small sounds, it probably won't help chaning it to the _large sounds either cause then the problem lies somewhere else. In other words, the _small sounds are supposed to be so audible that if you can't hear them, you won't hear the _large sounds either. As said before, we're working on that, so you shouldn't even need to hack it.